Forging for More Boost

[Marauder131]

Can anyone advise on experiences as to the approximate cost of parts and labour involved in forging our 4.6's to handle more boost?

[merc]

Wow, that's a hard question. My guess is anywhere between 6,000 to 12,000 depending on parts and tuning.

[Pops]

Wow, that's a hard question. My guess is anywhere between 6,000 to 12,000 depending on parts and tuning.

Maybe more! Dont forget about beefing up rest of the driveline.

[Joe Walsh]

I'd say @ $7,000 +/-

[ImpalaSlayer]

cant you buy a complete forged engine for like 5-6k? or am i wrong?

[Joe Walsh]

cant you buy a complete forged engine for like 5-6k? or am i wrong?

Probably...It all depends on what kind of crank, rods, & pistons you use.
Even forged parts are available in varying qualities and prices.
There are lots of forged cranks coming out of China nowadays..They are less expensive, but I can't vouch for their quality.

[ImpalaSlayer]

ahh i see i honestly wasnt sure

[merc]

cant you buy a complete forged engine for like 5-6k? or am i wrong?

That's just one of the parts, but it all depends on your plans and how much boost, driving or track duty.

[Vortech347]

This is why Modular Engines are great. They are CAKE to pull and rebuild.

[MM_BKK]

Get the Ford Racing Aluminator. Short block will run you about $4200 and complete long block Part# M-6007-A46NA. 4.6L (281 cubic inches) with 10:1 compression ratio (nominal). includes forged pistons, H-beam connecting rods. forged steel crankshaft, aluminum block M-6010-A46NA, & blue cam covers M-6582-A54. Assembled long block with 2003-04 Mustang Cobra cylinder heads and camshafts. Includes 1999-01 Mustang Cobra and 2003-04 Mach I timing chain cover, water pump, Cobra windage tray and oil pan. Fits 1999-01 Mustang Cobra and 2003-04 Mach I with manual transmission. Built with all NEW PARTS. Does not include oil cooler/oil filter adapter. Built with current available parts. Photos and specs may vary. Shipping weight approximately 500 lbs. FREE SHIPPING!!!!

Click here (http://www.lonestarperformance.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=1194&cat=154&page=1)for picture.

[merc]

Get the Ford Racing Aluminator. Short block will run you about $4200 and complete long block Part# M-6007-A46NA. 4.6L (281 cubic inches) with 10:1 compression ratio (nominal). includes forged pistons, H-beam connecting rods. forged steel crankshaft, aluminum block M-6010-A46NA, & blue cam covers M-6582-A54. Assembled long block with 2003-04 Mustang Cobra cylinder heads and camshafts. Includes 1999-01 Mustang Cobra and 2003-04 Mach I timing chain cover, water pump, Cobra windage tray and oil pan. Fits 1999-01 Mustang Cobra and 2003-04 Mach I with manual transmission. Built with all NEW PARTS. Does not include oil cooler/oil filter adapter. Built with current available parts. Photos and specs may vary. Shipping weight approximately 500 lbs. FREE SHIPPING!!!!

Click here (http://www.lonestarperformance.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=1194&cat=154&page=1)for picture.

You will still need a timing cover, oil pan, and 8 bolt flex plate. The fancy blue covers need to be modified for the Marauder. Factor in labor, new hoses, filter and fluids. You will not need the oil cooler/oil filter adapter. When done right it's not cheap regardless of the price of a create motor. Secondly you may want to rethink using 10:1 compression pistons. Most engine builders I know don't recommend a 0 cc piston. Some say with high boost you will lift the heads, and other prefer more boost vs compression.

[MM_BKK]

The timing cover that comes with it is 03-04 Mach I. That doesn't work on our set up? Couldn't he use his existing cover then? The oil pan that comes with it is a rear sump, that doesn't work either? Then just use the existing. I believe the 8-bolt flexplate is about $60.
What modification have to be done to the Blue cam covers? If that's too much hassle then just use the black ones and sell the blues. Couldn't be more hassle than replacing the engine.
Labor will vary depending on who you get to do the work.
I'm sure that by the time when it's all said and done, you're looking at least $7000 that's if you don't deviate from your original plan too much.

[merc]

The timing cover that comes with it is 03-04 Mach I. That doesn't work on our set up? Couldn't he use his existing cover then? The oil pan that comes with it is a rear sump, that doesn't work either? Then just use the existing. I believe the 8-bolt flexplate is about $60.
What modification have to be done to the Blue cam covers? If that's too much hassle then just use the black ones and sell the blues. Couldn't be more hassle than replacing the engine.
Labor will vary depending on who you get to do the work.
I'm sure that by the time when it's all said and done, you're looking at least $7000 that's if you don't deviate from your original plan too much.

I have not reviewed the Mach timing cover bolt pattern, but the Mach's do not have the same accessory configuration. It's best to clean up and re-use the Marauder timing cover and a new gasket. The Mach oil pan may work, but the Cobra pan will not fit. If you want to put on a cheap flexplate that's not SFI rated then that's your problem. Head bolts and gaskets are really the key to keeping everything together. I don't believe the create motor you suggested uses ARP head bolts. Read this article http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/mmfp_0806_ford_racing_aluminat or_crate_engine_install/index.html

[MM_BKK]

How about this flexplate (http://www.performancetransparts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=18)for $83?
The last time I checked, the 03-04 Mach I uses the same timing cover as the Marauder.
You're right, that crate motor doesn't use ARP head bolts. Is it nice to have them? Absolutely, but unless you're plan on making over 700hp I don't think it's a must. There are Cobra Terminator guys making well over 700hp on their stock longblock with just blower upgrades, fuel and exhaust. I believe their motors were not built with ARP hardware from the factory. I don't think you'd have to worry about heads lifting unless you plan on making 25+lbs of boost.
If he's planning on making over 15lbs of boost then go for this M-6007-A46SC (http://www.lonestarperformance.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=1193&cat=154&page=1) and use the original timing cover and sell the one that comes with it. He can get at least $450 for it since a new one goes for over $600.

I guess the question for the thread OP is how much power does he wants to make.

I don't think the OP was planning on making a track duty car. I think he just want a little more power than most avarage supercharger set up as a DD car.

Exactly what modifications have to be done to the Blue cam cover to make them work for the Marauder?

These Modular motor are not cheap, I never said they were. You could spend the same money on old school big block and make almost twice the power. But adapting it is the tricky part.

[merc]

How about this flexplate (http://www.performancetransparts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=18)for $83?
The last time I checked, the 03-04 Mach I uses the same timing cover as the Marauder.
You're right, that crate motor doesn't use ARP head bolts. Is it nice to have them? Absolutely, but unless you're plan on making over 700hp I don't think it's a must. There are Cobra Terminator guys making well over 700hp on their stock longblock with just blower upgrades, fuel and exhaust. I believe their motors were not built with ARP hardware from the factory. I don't think you'd have to worry about heads lifting unless you plan on making 25+lbs of boost.
If he's planning on making over 15lbs of boost then go for this M-6007-A46SC (http://www.lonestarperformance.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=1193&cat=154&page=1) and use the original timing cover and sell the one that comes with it. He can get at least $450 for it since a new one goes for over $600.

I guess the question for the thread OP is how much power does he wants to make.

I don't think the OP was planning on making a track duty car. I think he just want a little more power than most avarage supercharger set up as a DD car.

Exactly what modifications have to be done to the Blue cam cover to make them work for the Marauder?

These Modular motor are not cheap, I never said they were. You could spend the same money on old school big block and make almost twice the power. But adapting it is the tricky part.

In my 03 Marauder Terminator most of the bolts in the iron short block are ARP to include the main caps. I will try to dig up some pictures showing the differences between the two covers.

http://www.motorcitymarauders.com/gallery/files/1/5/6/DSC_0002.jpg

In this picture the thing in the rear is moved up a couple of inches to clear the wiper cal.

http://www.lonestarperformance.com/shop/product_image.php?imageid=1315

The thing in the rear on the drivers side cover is different. Also the passenger side cover is different and requires drilling two hole for screws

[merc]

On the passenger side you have a pipe that requires 2 screws. The blue value cover setup does not have screw holes. Not a major job but something to consider.

http://www.motorcitymarauders.com/gallery/files/1/5/6/Cobra1.jpg

[Zack]

The Mach 1 and Marauder have IDENTICAL accessories and locations, for the record.

[merc]

The Mach 1 and Marauder have IDENTICAL accessories and locations, for the record.

Thanks Zack. I don't spend much time under the hood of a Mach 1

[Zack]

You want my advice, here it is:

Run 10-12 psi, 3500 stall, longtubes and a kick ass tune.
Race gas at the track with 5 extra degrees of timing and you will have an 11 second car, with your stock engine.
I was doing this back in 03 :rolleyes: Never blew it up! My dumbazz took it out and went bigger and badder and its been a headache ever since....with no end in sight :D

[Zack]

No one has ever blown an engine (on MM.net that I know of, from too much power...its ALWAYS DETONATION)

Simple, no detonation, your motor lives.

[Blackmobile]

No one has ever blown an engine (on MM.net that I know of, from too much power...its ALWAYS DETONATION)

Simple, no detonation, your motor lives.

:fire: ^^^^^^+1^^^^^^^ What he said. :argh:

[merc]

My dumbazz took it out and went bigger and badder and its been a headache ever since....with no end in sight :D

I have a extra case of aspirin if you need it. Sometimes it's best to leave things as they were.:shake:


No one has ever blown an engine (on MM.net that I know of, from too much power...its ALWAYS DETONATION)

Simple, no detonation, your motor lives.

Really, are you sure about that. Read this thread http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16664&highlight=blown+motor


Original Post:
I blew my motor in March. Home-built ProCharger D1SC setup, not a FIT kit. Pushing 474 RWHP. I know it's pushing the envelope, did it anyway. Actually ran it like that several months and several passes on the drag strip. Blew it due to stupidity. Redline was set to 6700. I was doing a burnout and didn't want to bounce off the rev limiter so I was feathering the throttle around 5800-6100. That put it in & out of the WOT fuel table, went lean, detonated, two wrist pins fell out onto the track.

Reformatted:
I have a home-built ProCharger D1SC kit on my car. It has the Air-Air intercooler and pipes from DR along with the D1SC head unit. Pulleys were setup for 9-10 psi boost. It put down 474 rwhp with a max of 13 degrees timing advance.

It was installed in 05 with 68,000 miles.

I have also installed virtually every other mod imaginable. Kooks headers, SCT BA2400 MAF, BBK twin 62mm TB, ported intake manifold, 60 lb injectors, CPR fuel rails, twin Cobra pumps, BAP, rear cylinder cooling mod, electric water pump, Griffin radiator.

While I was doing a burnout I noticed a clunk and the engine quit, then steam came out of the cracks between the hood and fenders. It turned out to be two wrist pins laying in the puddle of oil/coolant.

I had 82,000 miles on the car when this happened.

What I think caused the failure was feathering the throttle around 5800-6100. That put it in & out of the WOT fuel table, went lean, detonated, ventilated block.

What I learned from this experience was pushing the envelope will result in eventual failure. I also learned how to swap the engine in the Marauder myself. I put another stock motor in with the exact same setup because it takes too long to get a built motor put together (that will come later). I just won't feather the throttle like that any more.

Best,

Confessor

[CKMustangCobra]

Buy a complete built engine and have it ready.

Use your stock engine in a safe manner... and if it goes you have another, better engine ready to go.

Not sure what your goals are with the car... but I've seen quite a few 400rwhp Marauders out there that are safe as hell on the stock engine (all centrifugal blowers).