Lpg

[Coupe]

My Marauder got a prins lpg constuction, it work great!
i have a 120 litre tank, to big for the trunk, but good for the autobahn ;)
here, you can see some pics:
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3115/dsc02562ck5.jpg

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/8352/dsc02561ae5.jpg

[Zack]

What the hell are we looking at?

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

propane gas conversion. My god that ruined trunk space!

[KillJoy]

I have considered this :D

How many miles per tank?

:dunno:

KillJoy

[Zack]

FYI Im almost 100% sure they make a stainless steel tank shaped like the stock tank, that goes in the stock location for such a conversion.

[Frank Androski]

how does the car perform compared to reg. benzine ?. and is it worth the trade off ?. when will you reach a break even point$$$ wise?.
GOOD LUCK AND HAPPY DRIVING!.

IT`S STILL A MARAUDER !!!!!!

[Coupe]

i can ride round about up to 800 kilometers.
you can calculate the amortisation in www. i bought the car with LPG. cost for the conversion is €3000.00!
i drive circa 4000 miles per month, it´s worth it

[Master]

I have talked about doing this in the past and even asked if it could be done. Wasn't much of a response, though. I wouldn't go replacing the stock tank. You still need a gas tank for the times when LPG isn't available. Usually these conversions come with a switch to run between the two sources.
LPG is now actually cheaper than gas here by a bit. The big bonus in my mind is the reduction in emmissions and the fact that the oil stays better, longer.
Also, if we removed the sub from the rear deck, there may be room for the bottle up there. THat is how the old CV Cabs used to do it.

[Master]

Care to give us the manufacturer's info?

[Joe Walsh]

WOW!

That is one BIG LPG bomb sitting in the trunk just waiting for a cell phone involved Mom in a Minivan to rear-end you!

[baltimoremm]

i can ride round about up to 800 kilometers.
you can calculate the amortisation in www. i bought the car with LPG. cost for the conversion is €3000.00!
i drive circa 4000 miles per month, it´s worth it


thats approx 500 miles to a tank. how much does it cost to fill the tank every time? just wondering what the "MPG equivalent" would be

[Coupe]

in europe, we can get smaller tanks in form a emergency tire, so u can mount the tank of the place from the tire! or you can mount two tanks in the hollow from the trunk. you need every time regular fuel, if you start a cold engine

[Coupe]

yesterday i was at the gasstation and payed €65.00 for 90 liters after 660 km (410 mls)

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Crown vics were available w/ LP so a lot of parts could probably be rigged to an MM.

[Eric-Blk2004]

Thats insane - where do they even sell LP in the US? I have never seen any stations

[Master]

How many gallons (or litres) is that tank you are showing? Just wondering what the actual MPG or L/100 km would be. Can you provide info?

[Master]

Hey, check my numbers, but I get the following:

$1.15 CDN (or about the same in US) for a litre.
You are getting about 17.5 Miles/USG or 20.7Miles/ImpGal

At 800 km range, your tank is about 28 gallons.

That all make sense?

[Coupe]

it is a volume of 120 liters and i need 14 liter/100km

[Dr Caleb]

Thats insane - where do they even sell LP in the US? I have never seen any stations

Really? We've got them all over here. Not every station sells LPG, but 10% at least do. Anywhere you can get your BBQ cylinder recharged, you can get your LPG tank filled.

Many see it as an alternative between Gas and Diesel. Diesel is actually more expensive here than regular gas.

LPG is an alternative for things like cabs and school buses - but it's advantage is nullified in the winter. There is no way to start the vehicle and keep it running, other than regular gas, when the temps fall below -40C.

14l/100km! It takes a bit of a hit on fuel economy, but the cost I'm sure makes up for it. Last time I calculated it, I got about 10l/100km highway, 12l/100km combined.

[Dennis Reinhart]

My Marauder got a prins lpg constuction, it work great!
i have a 120 litre tank, to big for the trunk, but good for the autobahn ;)
here, you can see some pics:
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3115/dsc02562ck5.jpg

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/8352/dsc02561ae5.jpg


This is the latest investment by many companies, Jerry is doing a lot of this so, I may do a Marauder here, so here is the math take.
800 Killometers divide this by .621 this converts this to miles 800 x .621 = 496.8 miles.

now the tank holds 120 litres take 120 x .264 = 31.68 gallons
So now take 496.8 miles divide that by 31.68= 15.68 MPG

But this is his initial test on the car, and it should have very low emisions, the oil stays cleaner, and the plugs last longer and it is the way of the future for some companies, but as Jerry said it has to be Carb Certified, no one will invest in a car that is out of production just like superchargers for Marauders in CA, Vortech Tillogy Novi Paxton just cant afford this cerification, on a car that is no longer in production.

[Jerry]

I know I have not posted in a while but with this post I think it's necessary.

Let me give you some background first. My wife and I (we got married about 4 months ago) work a lot in the alternate fuel industry. I am the technology behind several companies that offer CNG and LPG conversions. I take care of all the 0's and 1's as well as determine what hardware should be on the engine.

All of the conversions, with the exception of the ones I do and one other company in CA, use an additional computer to control the other fuel. They usually start on gasoline and then switch over after it's been running a short time. These strap on computers are under the hood and I can assure you, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that there strap on computers are not adequately designed for underhood use. In high underhood ambients the failure rate WILL be 100%, I have personally seen this.

Propane is the equal of about 107 octane. You can run a lot of timing. These stap on ECU's don't change timing, only fuel. Your exhaust temps will increase over the exhaust temp on gasoline, by about 100-200 degrees F, I have dyno data, if you don't add timing. You can, and most likely will, make about 5% more power on LPG, maybe a bit more, due to the octane and heating value of the fuel IF you add more timing.

LPG does NOT change any dependency on foregin oil. LPG comes from the cracking of crude oil, so it's prices are tied to the price of gasoline. CNG is totally different.

Tana and I make a box, and conversion kit, to run vehicles on both fuels. However, EVERYTHING we do is CARB and/or EPA certified and the proability of us doing a Marauder kit is low, so don't ask. We keep everything certified to keep the government off of our backs. As soon as you offer "off road" you open yourself up to a lot of things.

Propane and CNG both have pluses and minuses. LPG requires more maintaince. You will replace the vaporizers over the life time of the vehile. One bad batch of LPG with a bunch of heavies in it and you will be putting in new injectors. CNG kits are very expensive due to a 3600 PSI pressure vessel and the NHSTA certification that comes with that.

If you install a dedicated kit, not dual fuel, the IRS will give you a tax credit for $4000 on your return (not a deduction, but a credit). But the kit needs to be certified to get this. When the dust settles look at the cost of LPG per gallon and the cost of gasoline and determine at what mileage the payback is with a kit cost of about 8k (a realistic number if you include the cost of tanks) with a 4k credit from the IRS. It's a good options for taxi's (we do a lot of those) but they put about 10k a month on those vehicles.

This is enough info to probably just make you ask more questions.

j

[chicago_cop]

Thats insane - where do they even sell LP in the US? I have never seen any stations

Look in the Yellow Pages. They have LP filling stations in many locations. Not nearly as convienient but they can be found. Gas is much more expensive in Europe.

[Master]

8k for the kit is quite a lot more than I would have budgeted. I doubt that the guy in Germany paid that much or he likely wouldn't have done it. CNG. What is this? Cryo liquid porpane? Not a clue really. I'm just guessing.
No rebates in Canada that I'm aware of. We really suck at this stuff. Rebates for anything "Green" are few and far between.
I wouldn't be doing it for the mileage nearly so much as for the reduced emmissions and the extra timing. The idea of a high horsepower "Green" Marauder just tickles my fancy.
And, Dr Caleb, thank god I don't live in the Praries. -40C is just a number to us over here on the east coast. Not something we'd ever have to deal with to be sure.

[Coupe]

look:
http://www.verbrauchsrechner.de/index.fpl/f-showfills/vehicle-7233/

[Jerry]

CNG is Compressed Natural Gas. In the US CNG is as low as 67 cents a gallon in Utah and as high as about $2.25 a gallon in the California. It's a much greener fuel than LPG is.

I bet if you include cost of tanks and everything, I would be really surprised if he has less than 6k into it. A tank that size is about 1-2k in the US, maybe more. The kits from various places (TechnoCarb, EcoFuels, etc) are at least 2-3k without tanks, probably more.

LPG also has some serious issues at cold temps as well. It needs to be vaporized to go into the engine, in most systems, but it won't get hot enough in cold weather to vaporize and starting it will be a *****.

j

[Jerry]

look:
http://www.verbrauchsrechner.de/index.fpl/f-showfills/vehicle-7233/

One of the reasons I don't post on public forums anymore, and will probably stop again with this post, are people like this. This message board in base in the US. We speak ENGLISH, yet you post a link to something german. Nice. Also, you could just freaking answer the question, but no, you put a link up to something that few of us will understand.

I hate the internet. I'm back in my hole now to only deal with real people.

j

[Coupe]

excuse me, look here, (there is a button on the right side for change the language):
http://www.milage-calculator.com/index.fpl?f=showfills&vehicle=7233&lang=english

[Dr Caleb]

And, Dr Caleb, thank god I don't live in the Praries. -40C is just a number to us over here on the east coast. Not something we'd ever have to deal with to be sure.

It's not a big deal. -50C up north starts to get difficult. -60C is survivable for short periods. When your bottle of Vodka has turned to a solid - indoors, it's cold out.

But long before then, Diesel fuel and Gasoline have turned to jelly (if you forgot gas line antifreeze) and LPG has become a solid.

But the E.C ain't no picnic! I've been in Halifax at -10 with a wind coming off the ocean. I'll take -30C just fine, thank you very much. :)



I hate the internet. I'm back in my hole now to only deal with real people.

j


да свидания.

Мир большой месте. так грустно не хотите пользоваться всеми он должен предлагат.

[CRUZTAKER]

excuse me, look here, (there is a button on the right side for change the language):
http://www.milage-calculator.com/index.fpl?f=showfills&vehicle=7233&lang=english


Wow...I found that button immediately and am sure I don't have a fifth of the education of member Jerry. :rolleyes:

I found that Welbutrin really helps with dealing with people on the internet.
Mr. Jerry seems to have a lot to offer. Perhaps a prescription is in need.

coupe...welcome! :welcome:

Boy this song comes to mind...beware...it's in a foreign language so don't click the link if you are easily offended.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doTBT46wMvA

Back on topic....

I would love to run a fuel equivilent of 107 octane all the time!
My flip chip would always be in RACE. :cool:

[Master]

Hey Jerry, Thanks for the input. Would prefer you not hide out in your hole (remember how that turned out for Sadam). Your input is very valuable. Same goes for Coupe: Keep the info coming. We are all interested in new (or improved) technologies that may become viable for our aging machines. Who knows? If the volume starts to go up enough maybe the price will come down.

[99SVT]

That's a cool conversion, not something I'd do though...

[ImpalaSlayer]

i have no clue what those guys are sayin but there music is awsome. maybe thats why i liek them so much ahaha

[Blackened300a]

i have no clue what those guys are sayin but there music is awsome. maybe thats why i liek them so much ahaha

There is a english version on the album. Du Hast--- You hate.

[gja]

There is a english version on the album. Du Hast--- You hate.

Uhmmmm, your translation is completely wrong...sorry old boy.

* Du: You
* Du hast: You have
* Du hast mich: You have me
* Du hast mich gefragt: You have asked me
* Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt: You have asked me and I have not answered.

That's the verse.....

[Blackened300a]

Uhmmmm, your translation is completely wrong...sorry old boy.

* Du: You
* Du hast: You have
* Du hast mich: You have me
* Du hast mich gefragt: You have asked me
* Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt: You have asked me and I have not answered.

That's the verse.....

Then they changed the lyrics in the english version of the song, download it and listen for yourself.

The opening verse is.
"You"..
"You hate"....
"You hate me"....
"you hate me to say, you hate me to say, you hate me to say, and I did not obey"

[96DiamondVIII]

Uhmmmm, your translation is completely wrong...sorry old boy.

* Du: You
* Du hast: You have
* Du hast mich: You have me
* Du hast mich gefragt: You have asked me
* Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt: You have asked me and I have not answered.

That's the verse.....

Not quite. The verse is something of a play on words, as I understand it, because it can be read as:

Du hast: You have
Du hast mich: You have me
-or-
Du hasst: You hate
Du hasst mich: You hate me

As far as I remember, hast and hasst have identical pronunciation, so the meaning can be either. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Now for the second part, they took some liberty to make it rhyme in English. Translating the original, since "You hate questioned me" doesn't really make any sense, it's definitely "You questioned me, you questioned me, you questioned me, and I said nothing." (I think that is a little closer in meaning than the first translation given)

[Coupe]

the translation from gja is to 100% correct

[CRUZTAKER]

Uhmmmm, your translation is completely wrong...sorry old boy.

* Du: You
* Du hast: You have
* Du hast mich: You have me
* Du hast mich gefragt: You have asked me
* Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt: You have asked me and I have not answered.

That's the verse.....

Not quite to the point either...

It is a play on (german) words.
My grandfather, a linguist, and translator for the government during the cold war confirms.
No one really knows what the intention was when it was written.
However, most Rammstien followers believe it was HATE.

You...
You hate...
You hate me...

You...
You hate...
You hate me...

You...
You hate...
You hate me...

You...
You hate...
You hate me...

You...
You hate...
You hate me...
You hate me...
You hate me to say...
You hate me to say...
You hate me to say and I did not obey

Will you until death does sever
Be upright to her forever?
Never!
Never!

Will you until death does sever
Be upright to her forever?
Never!
Never!

Du...
Du hast...
Du hast mich...

Du...
Du hast...
Du hast mich...

Du...
Du hast...
Du hast mich...
Du hast mich...
Du hast mich gefragt...
Du hast mich gefragt...
Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt.

Will you until death does sever
Be upright to her forever?
Never!
Never!

Will you 'til death be her rider
Her lover too,to stay inside her?
Never!
Never!

Will you until death does sever
Be upright....?
Never!
Never!

[gja]

Not quite to the point either...

It is a play on (german) words.
My grandfather, a linguist, and translator for the government during the cold war confirms.
No one really knows what the intention was when it was written.
However, most Rammstien followers believe it was HATE.

You...
You hate...
You hate me...

You...
You hate...
You hate me...

You...
You hate...
You hate me...

You...
You hate...
You hate me...

You...
You hate...
You hate me...
You hate me...
You hate me to say...
You hate me to say...
You hate me to say and I did not obey

Will you until death does sever
Be upright to her forever?
Never!
Never!

Will you until death does sever
Be upright to her forever?
Never!
Never!

Du...
Du hast...
Du hast mich...

Du...
Du hast...
Du hast mich...

Du...
Du hast...
Du hast mich...
Du hast mich...
Du hast mich gefragt...
Du hast mich gefragt...
Du hast mich gefragt und ich hab nichts gesagt.

Will you until death does sever
Be upright to her forever?
Never!
Never!

Will you 'til death be her rider
Her lover too,to stay inside her?
Never!
Never!

Will you until death does sever
Be upright....?
Never!
Never!


Well, I can't speak to intent of the phrase of idioms of the German language, but you what you say makes a sense. I was just going on the literal translation which is the only yardstick I had to go by.
And I never really liked the "americanized" translated versions of songs, so I never listened to that cut by them. I enjoy hearing different languages, especially in rock.

[Master]

How about a new thread for the song and its idiomatics? We've drifted rather far from LPG conversions.

[Master]

Note:
When it comes to natural gas, yes we are dependent on foreign oil. To you guys, though, Canada is foreign oil, too. And, since our PM is a mere puppet of George Bush, you essentially have an unlimited supply of whatever you need (until it jut plain runs out, that is). Good 'ole Harper is glad to sell it off as fast as you can take it. He has no qualms whatsoever about running the tank dry as fast as possible as long as it keeps 'ole George happy. And, since we are your number one biggest supplier of oil (and gas, I think), then I doubt you have too much to worry about in the near future. Just tell George to lean on Harper and the taps will flow.
BTW: In the middle east, until very recently, the natural gas was simply burned off in the atmosphere as they made the oil. VERY depressing. REcently, though, they've begun capturing and selling it. Bout time, eh?

[juno]

I would be very interested in converting my 2003 f250 5.4 to LPG if anyone has info.

[Master]

I think the temps are too low on Jupiter for this to work properly.

[juno]

I think the temps are too low on Jupiter for this to work properly.

Yeah, I would need the extra large bottle heater. :D

[Master]

So the question is this: With the 5.4 and 4.6 being essentially the same beast - modeular V-8s, do you think we could get Jerry to come up with a system for us? It'd be awefully nice!

[gja]

I would GLADLY do this conversion. LPG runs nice and clean and can be sourced either as a direct extract from the field or as a by-product of the refining process.
And it is a LOT cleaner burning than just about any other hydrocarbon fuel we have as a real viable option.
We could easily run our engines for many years with no noticeable carbon buildup.

[Master]

So, there. We get a real budget price to do the conversion kit, then we pony up the cash and the customers. Sounds simple, eh? :)
Dennis R. already said he'd like to do a conversion. Maybe he could be the spearheader?

[juno]

Yeah, my truck would be a lot easier then our cars. Plenty of room to add a nice big tank and all the goodies, and it is completely stock, except for 4:10's.