Alchohol Injection Snow Kit

[sailsmen]

I am probably going to go with alcohol injection to reduce intake temps.

I have done research and I am leaning towards the Snow Kit. Does anyone have any experience w/ Snow?

I am leaning towards mounting the reservoir in the trunk to reduce the temp.

Is insulating the alcohol hose under the hood of help or is the silicone hose an insulator?

I am hesitant to using the Kits w/ straight alcohol. The 50/50 mix has been in use since WWII.

[Vortech347]

I've been running it for 2 years on my mustang and have installed several of these kits.

You will not need to worry about insulating the line. Just make sure its protected from alot of heat or it will warp. A good way to do this is get some rubber hose thats slightly bigger than the line and run it through the hose. This will help protect it from heat.

You'll want to shoot it 3-4" before the TB.

Also do the boost sensitive one, do not do the MAF style one. It works okay but the boost progression controller just works much better. I dont' even use one, I just use an off/on at 4psi. My car does not bog or anything, another factor is to make sure you size the jet right. To much and the car will bog, loose HP, and run like ass.

50/50 mix is what works best. I wouldn't run it any straighter because of the potential fire hazard. If you're willing to spend some money you can do like I did and get an Odessey 680pc battery (1/4 the size of the stock batt) and mount your container there under the hood. The other is to just use your OEM washer fluid container and keep 50/50 in it. If its not your daily it works well. This is where my dads 05' stang's is.

Depending on where you're A/F sits at now you'll want to keep it around 11.0-11.5. Any richer and it will bog and you'll lose power. Also to much meth will wash down the cylinders which is a bad thing. Start small and then go up.

For your car since it is not detonating or "Needing" it to surive I'd suggest going with their smaller jet first and dyno/datalog it.

Oh, and get meth straight and mix it with distilled water yourself. I make 10 gallons for 40$. Pretty damn cheap. Just look in your phonebook for chemical companies and ask if they sell straight methanol. Some people will say to use washer fluid. DO NOT EVER DO IT!!! Its how people started doing it in cars but its not the smartest of idea's.

[sd8683]

Send a PM to
kb-marauder-s he has the kit you speak of

[CRUZTAKER]

I am probably going to go with alcohol injection to reduce intake temps.

Sounds complicated ;)

I found that alchohol cools my intake temps as well.

Especially when I keep the vodka in the freezer.:P :beer:

[FordNut]

I've got one. Never took the time to get it dialed in. Current plan is to just use it for a fine mist to help cool the rotors.

[O's Fan Rich]

They work good.

[courtmarshall]

I like having the alky as well. I did not go with snows. send me a PM if you want the details on the kit that I went with and the reasons why. My IAT after the S/C drop nearly 20 degrees right away under full progressive green light spray. Scan Gauge II sample rate may be mil seconds behind the actual drop in temp...

Fun Fun Fun!!!

[magindat]

Billy, did Dennis set you up on blow thru? I've wondered if I sprayed meth far enough in front of the MAF if it would simply adjust the timing via the tune with the info from the cooler MAF - or would it foul the MAF?
I like the idea. Just wonder how to execute in blow thru mode.
Rich

[Joe Walsh]

I've been running it for 2 years on my mustang and have installed several of these kits.

You will not need to worry about insulating the line. Just make sure its protected from alot of heat or it will warp. A good way to do this is get some rubber hose thats slightly bigger than the line and run it through the hose. This will help protect it from heat.

You'll want to shoot it 3-4" before the TB.

Also do the boost sensitive one, do not do the MAF style one. It works okay but the boost progression controller just works much better. I dont' even use one, I just use an off/on at 4psi. My car does not bog or anything, another factor is to make sure you size the jet right. To much and the car will bog, loose HP, and run like ass.

50/50 mix is what works best. I wouldn't run it any straighter because of the potential fire hazard. If you're willing to spend some money you can do like I did and get an Odessey 680pc battery (1/4 the size of the stock batt) and mount your container there under the hood. The other is to just use your OEM washer fluid container and keep 50/50 in it. If its not your daily it works well. This is where my dads 05' stang's is.

Depending on where you're A/F sits at now you'll want to keep it around 11.0-11.5. Any richer and it will bog and you'll lose power. Also to much meth will wash down the cylinders which is a bad thing. Start small and then go up.

For your car since it is not detonating or "Needing" it to surive I'd suggest going with their smaller jet first and dyno/datalog it.

Oh, and get meth straight and mix it with distilled water yourself. I make 10 gallons for 40$. Pretty damn cheap. Just look in your phonebook for chemical companies and ask if they sell straight methanol. Some people will say to use washer fluid. DO NOT EVER DO IT!!! Its how people started doing it in cars but its not the smartest of idea's.


I've only seen the 'MAF type' Snow Kit...how does the 'boost type' work?

[sailsmen]

I have the blow thru. I sugesstion by someonelse was made to spray before the intercooler.

I have not discussed w/ Dennis.

[Zack]

The guys around here swear by AEM meth kits.

[Vortech347]

The new snow controlers will work on either a MAF input for progression control or can be boost sensitive.

Zack, the funny thing is almost all of the systems out there use the same sur-flo pump and fittings with different labels. The only one I've seen truely unique is the SMC kits and they have a much smaller pump. I've never seen an AEM kit though...

[Vortech347]

Spray it 3-4" from the throttle body.

Do not run it through the intercooler.

[magindat]

I have the blow thru. I sugesstion by someonelse was made to spray before the intercooler.

I have not discussed w/ Dennis.

That would have a two fold effect of cooling the charge AND the cooler, but I wonder if it would condense in the cooler.

If not, that should be vapor enough to not foul the MAF.

Dennis has suggested meth to me, but there was no technical discussion.

I'll be following this one, Billy.

[magindat]

Spray it 3-4" from the throttle body.

Do not run it through the intercooler.

Our MAF's are 3-4" from the TB further down the air stream than the IAT.

[FordNut]

I've only seen the 'MAF type' Snow Kit...how does the 'boost type' work?

Same principle just a different reference signal. MAF for PD blowers or NA, boost for centrifugals only. MAF also works ok for centrifugals.

[FordNut]

Do not run it through the intercooler.

That's what is recommended. And the "proper" way to use it on a PD blower setup is to put the nozzles in the manifold, after the intercooler.

[Windsor58]

One word of caution that I have heard is that if you tune to take advantage of the cooler IAT and the injection system fails during a hard run, you risk detonation. That could get expensive quick.

[bob6364]

One word of caution that I have heard is that if you tune to take advantage of the cooler IAT and the injection system fails during a hard run, you risk detonation. That could get expensive quick.

You are correct ,that is why Snow has been trying to develope a kit that pulls timing if the pressure drops in the lines but last i checked it wasn't available yet. I have the Snow's stage 2 on my super charged Mustang and its tune is such thats it gives me a safety margin on really hot days or long WOT runs.
I have been using windshield washer fluid with 30% Meth for 2 years with absolutely no problems, the car has made dozens of dyno runs and many more 1/4 mile runs with this mix.I also read some where that the proper place for the nozzle was in the intake below the supercharger , something about high levels of Meth will corrode the coatings on PD superchargers. I haven't looked insde my eaton so i can't tell you what it looks like after 2 years of 30%

[Vortech347]

That's what is recommended. And the "proper" way to use it on a PD blower setup is to put the nozzles in the manifold, after the intercooler.

I agree. I'd never run it through a screw type blower.

Reguarding MAF vs boost for progression control I've seen much better results with using the boost pickup. I know the MAF can work really well but it takes alot of dyno time to get it dialed in.

[Vortech347]

I rely'd on my meth with my last shortblock being 9.5:1 and had to replace a headgasket when it failed once. Now with my 8.5:1 I can run the car without the meth, if it gets roudy I can turn my timing up from inside the car with the BTM and flip the meth on and I go from 470rwhp to 520rwhp (dyno confirmed) With the engine completely heat soaked.

[FordNut]

That's what is recommended. And the "proper" way to use it on a PD blower setup is to put the nozzles in the manifold, after the intercooler.


I agree. I'd never run it through a screw type blower.

Reguarding MAF vs boost for progression control I've seen much better results with using the boost pickup. I know the MAF can work really well but it takes alot of dyno time to get it dialed in.

One exception for the PD blowers is if you just use a small nozzle to cool the rotors. Not enough to increase power by cooling the intake charge, because if you spray that much you will get some condensation in the intercooler. I've verified this is ok with Whipple, but there have been some reports of teflon coating being eroded from rotors of other manufacturer's blowers.

The problem with boost sensitive control on PD blowers is that the boost comes on instantly and stays the same as the RPMs increase (roots blowers sometimes even lose a little boost at high RPM). As RPMs increase, the engine really needs to have more meth for consistent AMR (air-meth ratio). With centrifugal blowers RPM and boost track each other (as well as MAF).

[magindat]

One word of caution that I have heard is that if you tune to take advantage of the cooler IAT and the injection system fails during a hard run, you risk detonation. That could get expensive quick.
Which is exactly why I wonder if you could spray far before the IAT. Then the timing would adjust according to the IAT it sees, not a predicted or adjusted expected IAT with meth. It would be fail safe by it's own nature.

[sailsmen]

Snow sells a flow sensor that sends a 12 volt signal and a solenoid.

The 12 volt can be used to reduce timing or the solenoid can open the popoff.

Hence The suggestion before the MAF after the S/C, as in prior to the Intercooler.

Anybody know where the Mustangs '05 and up w/ the blow thru MAF are mounting the jet?

[High-C]

This is an interesting discussion and I will be following this closely. I trust Rich's decision making and will likely follow suit if a blow-thru set up is agreed upon... I have been thinking about Meth injection but wondering about nozzle placement for a blow-thru centrifugal kit like mine...

[merc]

This is an interesting discussion and I will be following this closely. I trust Rich's decision making and will likely follow suit if a blow-thru set up is agreed upon... I have been thinking about Meth injection but wondering about nozzle placement for a blow-thru centrifugal kit like mine...

We need to talk at Mason Dixon.

[High-C]

We need to talk at Mason Dixon.

10-4 good buddy... Lookin' forward to it. :beer:

[Vortech347]

I wouldn't run it through the MAF.

Yea, the lightning guys were using meth and were the first ones to say it was taking the teflon off the rotors. Some say its a myth but I just wouldn't chance it. Direct port on PD cars and just before the TB on blower cars.

[FordNut]

Another issue on PD setups after the throttle body is a valve has to be incorporated in the line feeding the nozzle or the engine vacuum when the throttle is closed will s uck the water out of the reservoir thru the pump and risk hydro-lock.

As for the MAF, I would separate the IAT sensor from the MAF and inject after MAF, before IAT.

[Vortech347]

Thats exactly how we have it setup on my dads 05' Roush. We moved the IAT into one of the intake runners and hid the sensor under the intake. Although on these cars I'm not sure how you'd do that.

It does drop intake temps a ton. When we log it. It'll come on at around 4500rpm and drop the temps from 175 down to 100 on a hot 100 day. We were actually racing at an old airport runway in the middle of the desert doing these logs. :) His car is a Vortech S-trim with 11psi (the after cooler setup but with meth instead) The tune on there is designed that if the intake temps get to hot it will dump a ton of fuel and back off timing. Just incase the meth dosn't work.