Stainless Header Group Buy

[Taemian]

Ok folks, here's the deal:
I've spoken with Scott over at Stainless Corp about their headers for our MMs, and talked to him about a group buy. As it stands now, myself and another MM owner are going to be ordering headers next week. Scott has offered us a 10% discount for these two orders, and if there are more orders, he may even be able to give us a bigger group discount.
Anyone interested in joining us in ordering will get the same discount we will (10%), with the possibility of a greater discount for everyone depending on the total number of orders.

www.stainlessworks.net (http://www.stainlessworks.net/) <---- Link

I hope the fact that they aren't vendors here doesn't get this post killed, as I'm only trying to get a bigger discount via a larger group. It is ME, not THEM soliciting for business. Is that ok, or am I screwing up by doing this?

EDIT: DISCOUNT IS NOW AT 20% FOR ALL ORDERS (Confirmed on Friday, Sept 19, as per Jim at Stainless)

THIS LIST BELOW WILL BE UPDATED AS ORDERS COME IN:

Taemian: Headers only
Dave: Headers+ Ceramic coating/Lead Pipes/ high Flow Cats
Local Boy: Headers + Ceramic coating + 3" flanges.
Impala Slayer: Headers only
Peace2Peep: Headers + Ceramic coating + 3" flanges
Takedown: Headers + Ceramic coating + 3" flanges

ORDERING PROCEDURE: Ok guys, here's how we'll do it. Once I confirm tomorrow that we have a 20% group discount, I will post it here. (20% discount is now confirmed)

NEW INFO: Scott is no longer employed at SSW (?!?!?) but Jim has taken over our order. The 20% discount will be honoured, but the ordering procedure has been changed. Jim would like each person to email their order to him at: jimstainlessworks@windstream.n et and mention "Ian's Marauder group buy"

Please give him the product code that is listed for the item(s) you want, as well as any flange/bung info you want him to add. Also, I'm asking EVERYONE who orders to mention that there have been issues with steering shaft rub. I spoke to him about making sure this batch is paid close attention to in that regard, and he asked to just remind him in the orders. This mass reminder from each of us will hopefully remind him to make sure the techs build the headers with a watchful eye on this.

I will have no more information on when your headers will be arriving than you do, so don't ask me! Call JIM at Stainless with any questions you may have.

[Shora]

All depends on the price for me because they would just be collecting dust until I decide to rebuild the engine.

However, for a deal that I cannot pass, I may bite.

[DOOM]

Whats the price???

[Taemian]

Whats the price???

Ummm...that's why I posted the link. The are giving a 10% discount on anything ordered through this group buy. Here is their Marauder products page.

http://www.stainlessworks.net/cart/index.php?cPath=481_484_360

I'm ordering the headers only, which are about $1000 list price. 10% off that brings it down to $900 bucks flat. As I said, if I can bring him a higher number than the two confirmed orders I already have, the discount will be bigger. The total discount will depend on how many CONFIRMED orders I can tell him we have. Don't ask me what the discount will be; I don't know. I'm hoping that we'll get an additional 5% for every 2 more orders.
E.g. 1-2 =10% 3-4=15% 5-6=20%???

Since the GB has one set of headers, and one headers+Cats already confirmed, I think we're off to a good start.:burnout:

[Dragcity]

Wish I'd got these instead of Kooks. Look easier to install, better lay of the pipe and hopefully no steering shaft issue.

Good Luck wiht it....

[ctrlraven]

That's what people have said there are less install issues with the SW than the Kooks.

[Taemian]

Kooks 2.5" on left, Stainess 3" on right.

Ground clearance looks to be a bit lower, but I'm ok with that.;)

[Zack]

SW Headers are a MILLION times better then Kooks.

[Local Boy]

Perfect timmingf for me...

I'M IN!!!

I want headers only...

Where do I sign...

Hit me up Taemian...

ALOHA

[ImpalaSlayer]

ok put it this way. if we can get him down just a tad more im more then likly in.

[Taemian]

Perfect timmingf for me...

I'M IN!!!

I want headers only...

Where do I sign...

Hit me up Taemian...

ALOHA

You are officially on the list, Local Boy!

If we can get at least one more order, I'll call Scott at Stainless and see what the new discount will be.

You guys can understand, that they aren't a wholesaler and still need to make a profit. Also, no seller wants to speculate on a bunch of "what-ifs" and "maybes", so when we have 4 confirmed orders (and we have 3 now) I'll call Scott and say "So what's the discount now that we have doubled the original order?" At that point, we'll see what he offers. Regardless, the 10% discount is already guarenteed.

I'm not sure if 15% a discount is what he'll offer with 4 confirmed orders, but that's what I'm pushing for. After that, I think the law of diminishing returns will kick in if we hit 6 orders or more, and might get up to 18% off. 20% might not fly, but we'll cross that bridge if we get to it.:D

[Local Boy]

WOOOHOOO!!!

Thanks Taemian...

I got the $$$ in hand, just tell me when and where to send it...

Come on...Dave...get off the fence, my brutha...Lets go!!!

ALOHA

[ImpalaSlayer]

im working on it Randy. but im po! lol

[Taemian]

WOOOHOOO!!!

Thanks Taemian...

I got the $$$ in hand, just tell me when and where to send it...

Come on...Dave...get off the fence, my brutha...Lets go!!!

ALOHA

So everybody knows, all payments will be sent directly via the Stainless website's order process. I'm not involved in the money stuff whatsoever. I'm just getting us to order together as a group so we get a good discount.

It looks like we have 4 confirmed orders at 15%...I am emailing Scott right now to confirm that he will do tis, though I'm pushing for a larger discount. (Thanks to those who PM'd me regarding this!)

[Local Boy]

:woohoo::party::popcorn::hmmm: :beer:

:wave:

[freakstatus]

WOOOHOOO!!!

Thanks Taemian...

I got the $$$ in hand, just tell me when and where to send it...

Come on...Dave...get off the fence, my brutha...Lets go!!!

ALOHA

Hey Randy,

Got some $$ in hand for me? :)

[crouse]

Jegs has them for $876.99.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Stainless%20Works/842/MAUHDR/10002/-1

Stainless Works #842-MAUHDR

[ImpalaSlayer]

wow! we should at least get that price.

[ImpalaSlayer]

niice work crouse

[Shora]

Jegs has them for $876.99.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Stainless%20Works/842/MAUHDR/10002/-1

Stainless Works #842-MAUHDR

Thank you for the link.

I KNEW that the 10% discount was nothing to jump on (for me anyways). I honestly think that if we can get a group buy from a vendor that then the deal will be better for all (except SSWorks).

[Local Boy]

How's the baby, Derek...

Hope all is well...

I got CORONA'S...

ALOHA

[ImpalaSlayer]

well hold on i just had a retarted moment. 10% off of 950 is 855. so the 10% is still cheaper

[Local Boy]

Interesting find....crouse...

Thank you...

I'm going with ceramic coating, and some other special order stuff...so...this GB works out perfect for me...

ALOHA

[Shora]

well hold on i just had a retarted moment. 10% off of 950 is 855. so the 10% is still cheaper


They list for $989.69 on the link provided. 10% off is still more expansive than the non group buy price of jegs.

[ImpalaSlayer]

sorry i must of miss read last night, another retarted moment for me

[Local Boy]

Have faith in Taemian...

He will do his best...

ALOHA

[TooManyFords]

Whatever happened to the days when a set of headers were $200? Am I -that- old?

I thought competition was to LOWER prices, not put them in nose-bleed seats. Yes, they look better, but these are computer jigged tubes...

If you get them down to $400, I'm in.

(and I'll sell my Kooks for $200 to someone...)

[Taemian]

I am indeed working on it. Thanks for the link, I'm using it in negotiations with Scott at Stainless. Also, a few members have PM'd me the price they paid about 1.5 years ago in the last group buy, which by my math worked out to be about a 30% discount. Keep in mind that they ordered TEN SETS of headers, and we have 4 sets and 1 set of high flow cats in our order so far. Our order is half of the last group buy, and has half the discount offered. Scott is at lunch right now, he'll be calling me when he get in.

Please remember that I in NO WAY benefit on the side from this. I get the same discount eveyone does, so I want to get them as cheap as possible too!

EDIT: The last GB ordered 15 sets of headers, not ten!

[ImpalaSlayer]

waiting to see what happens

[TooManyFords]

I would be curious to see if these fit...

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=BIG-12114FLT&N=700+4294908331+4294923429+42 94839039+4294840044+115&autoview=sku

In case the link got mangled, they are Flowtech 12114FLT headers.
$295, Full return policy at Summit if they don't!

I'm just saying...

[ImpalaSlayer]

you should buy em n find out for us lol

btw 2000 posts :woohoo:

[Taemian]

Just got off the phone with Scott at SW, he said the discount for everyone now (me, Dave, Local Boy and Impala Slayer) is 15%. That makes the headers come in at $841.23

He also said that he could go to 20% off if we have a few more orders.

[TooManyFords]

If my motor was out, I would.

Wait, when I pull the tranny after MVVI I will! It will be a couple weeks before I find out if it clears everything.

[Taemian]

you should buy em n find out for us lol

btw 2000 posts :woohoo:

You trying to tie that wacko DD guy on this board who posts about anything and everything?:P

[offroadkarter]

D@mn if only i had a job :(

[ImpalaSlayer]

haha nah i dont have people flying around my house in helicoptors

[ImpalaSlayer]

come on lets get a few more people!

[Taemian]

haha nah i dont have people flying around my house in helicoptors

None that you know of....;)

[Taemian]

Interesting find....crouse...

Thank you...

I'm going with ceramic coating, and some other special order stuff...so...this GB works out perfect for me...

ALOHA

I have you listed for the headers + ceramic coating. Anything else?

[Taemian]

NOTICE: The list of confirmed buyers is now in the first post of this thread, and will be updated as new orders are placed. Please refer to it to see where we currently stand as far as discount is concerned. Also, make sure I have your order correct!

[O's Fan Rich]

I would be curious to see if these fit...

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=BIG-12114FLT&N=700+4294908331+4294923429+42 94839039+4294840044+115&autoview=sku

In case the link got mangled, they are Flowtech 12114FLT headers.
$295, Full return policy at Summit if they don't!

I'm just saying...

They look close John. I need to compare to the uninstalled pics of my SW's..

[Taemian]

They look close John. I need to compare to the uninstalled pics of my SW's..

Well, first off, they're not stainless steel. Second, I don't see that they have a lifetime warranty, which the SW ones do. Third, since it only lists the Mustang in the application guide, I'll be there will be fitment issues. I doubt the bends made for the Cobra would be the same for the MM. Close probably, but it's your dime...gamble if you want to. You may send them back for a refund, but your install labour will still go down the drain if they don't fit.

Personally, I'd love to see these fit. People could start with these, then upgrade to the SWs, just like people upgrade to the Twin Screw from the Eaton! :)

[mpearce]

but these are computer jigged tubes...

Are you sure about that? I've been to their shop and have seen their guys welding everything together by hand. Pretty interesting actually, because I'd never seen headers being made before.

-Mat

[sd8683]

I have kooks headers (uninstalled) I don't know anything about exhaust so this may sound stupid but.... Would the kooks catalytic converters match up with the SW headers? I was gonna get my kooks headers powdercoated but it would probably be cheaper to sell my headers and buy those?

[ImpalaSlayer]

Sean, you would have to get em ceramic coated, powder coat would melt.

[sd8683]

Sean, you would have to get em ceramic coated, powder coat would melt.


Really?????

[ImpalaSlayer]

its put on basicly the same way but its different stuff

[offroadkarter]

Really?????

The headers do come right off the engine where the FIRE is ;)


Just put your kooks on it wont make a huge difference

[Local Boy]

Just to be clear Taemian...

I will be getting...Ceramic coated headers, with 3 in. flange welded on...

Two (2) 3 in. flanges with two (2) 3 in. reduced to 2.5 in. pipe...and three (3) 0'2 bungs...

ALOHA

[DJCV]

Are the headers compatible with a (lowly 2V) Crown Vic???

[Taemian]

I have kooks headers (uninstalled) I don't know anything about exhaust so this may sound stupid but.... Would the kooks catalytic converters match up with the SW headers? I was gonna get my kooks headers powdercoated but it would probably be cheaper to sell my headers and buy those?

Doubtful that they would match up.

Remember that the Stainless headers don't come with a flange to bolt up to your stock exhaust, either. You can order them with flanges, but much has been written on that topic already!! They use the slip-fit and stainless steel band clamps, which allow much easier times during installs.

Also, just like the Trilogy kits, these ARE NOT SHIPPED OVERNIGHT. These headers are made to order, when the order is placed. Plan on waiting 3-4 weeks to receive them.

[Taemian]

Are you sure about that? I've been to their shop and have seen their guys welding everything together by hand. Pretty interesting actually, because I'd never seen headers being made before.

-Mat

Yes, they are all hand made. That's why it will take a bit of time for all of us to get our orders once we make payment.

[Taemian]

Are the headers compatible with a (lowly 2V) Crown Vic???

No, sorry.

[ImpalaSlayer]

ok about the flange's. which would the best type to have if i plan on putting a whole new exhaust on? the slip. or the 3 bolt?

[Taemian]

Just to be clear Taemian...

I will be getting...Ceramic coated headers, with 3 in. flange welded on...

Two (2) 3 in. flanges with two (2) 3 in. reduced to 2.5 in. pipe...and three (3) 0'2 bungs...

ALOHA

Can I suggest that you get your installer to do the reducers? You may find that easier in the long run, as he will be able to make any fit adjustments needed for your specific install...

[Vortech347]

Do the headers/cats/ bolt to the rest of the stock exhaust?

[Taemian]

ok about the flange's. which would the best type to have if i plan on putting a whole new exhaust on? the slip. or the 3 bolt?

I would say the slip is the way to go. It allows 360 degree adjustment if any of your other exhaust work needs to be twisted or tweaked to hang properly.

Just my opinion, feel free to ask around!

[Taemian]

Do the headers/cats/ bolt to the rest of the stock exhaust?

I believe so, BUT will check with Scott to confirm this.

Judging by the fact that there are flanges on the pipes after the cats, this looks to be a factory bolt-up to the mufflers. Also, it usually states if additional welding/fab work will be needed if that's the case. (like the "headers only" desciption) (unless you order the flanges to be added)

[TAKEDOWN]

Price for just the headers ceramic coating with discount?

[Taemian]

Price for just the headers ceramic coating with discount?

What am I now, your math teacher?:P

(Headers list @ 989.69 + Coating @ 400.00) -15%

= 841.23 + 340

= $1181.23

Again, if we get a few more confirmed orders, we can get 20% off all orders. I am only counting an order as confirmed if you tell me "I'm confirming that I am ordering!"

Also, the last GB for these headers actually ordered 15 sets of headers, not 10 like I previously mentioned. Now you can see why they got such an incredible deal! It's all about volume, volume, volume!

[ImpalaSlayer]

lets hope we can get 15!

[sd8683]

I would be a confirmed buyer if they matched up to my kooks cats, those SW's are PURTY

[O's Fan Rich]

Well, first off, they're not stainless steel. Second, I don't see that they have a lifetime warranty, which the SW ones do. Third, since it only lists the Mustang in the application guide, I'll be there will be fitment issues. I doubt the bends made for the Cobra would be the same for the MM. Close probably, but it's your dime...gamble if you want to. You may send them back for a refund, but your install labour will still go down the drain if they don't fit.

Personally, I'd love to see these fit. People could start with these, then upgrade to the SWs, just like people upgrade to the Twin Screw from the Eaton! :)

I already have SW headers, Jet Hot black coated... installed by me... and they fit great. Got them in a GB in 07.
My comment was simply an observation

[O's Fan Rich]

I did not get flanges. I have the 3" collector and used slip fit cats with band clamps.

[Local Boy]

OK....Let me edit my pre-order...

Just Headers with ceramic coating, and 3 in. flange welded on...

and... just three (3) O'2 bungs...

Thanks Taemian...

ALOHA

[Taemian]

I would be a confirmed buyer if they matched up to my kooks cats, those SW's are PURTY

Well, I'm going to have to say that you won't be confirming an order since they won't line up.:(

[Taemian]

I already have SW headers, Jet Hot black coated... installed by me... and they fit great. Got them in a GB in 07.
My comment was simply an observation

And a good one at that! Options are always a good thing!:)

[Taemian]

OK....Let me edit my pre-order...

Just Headers with ceramic coating, and 3 in. flange welded on...

and... just three (3) O'2 bungs...

Thanks Taemian...

ALOHA

Done and edited.

[TAKEDOWN]

What am I now, your math teacher?:P

(Headers list @ 989.69 + Coating @ 400.00) -15%

= 841.23 + 340

= $1181.23

Again, if we get a few more confirmed orders, we can get 20% off all orders. I am only counting an order as confirmed if you tell me "I'm confirming that I am ordering!"

Also, the last GB for these headers actually ordered 15 sets of headers, not 10 like I previously mentioned. Now you can see why they got such an incredible deal! It's all about volume, volume, volume!

Would that make me a naughty student having to stay after school?:lol: Thanks for the price btw... now what is it 20%:eek::lol:

[Taemian]

Would that make me a naughty student having to stay after school?:lol: Thanks for the price btw... now what is it 20%:eek::lol:

Don't thank me for the low price, you haven't confirmed that you're ordering!:)

Also, this is a GROUP buy...everyone is responsible for the discount we get....which stands at 15% with the confirmed 5 orders. I think we could get 20% off with six orders.

[ImpalaSlayer]

come on ppl. would be awsome to get 20% off.

[TAKEDOWN]

I'm in at 20%

[Local Boy]

Right - on fellas!!!.....

Do we have 6 orders now???

ALOHA

[TAKEDOWN]

Right - on fellas!!!.....

Do we have 6 orders now???

ALOHA

I did it because I hate you! :beer:

[ImpalaSlayer]

funny thing is i was never even planning on headers.

[Local Boy]

Don't hate me, cause I'm faster...lol

ALOHA

[Zack]

Guys, when you buy exhaust components, plan on taking it to an exhaust shop for final fitment, unless you are a good welder and you have a helper that will keep the tailpipes straight when doing so.

Nothing about exhaust is ever bolt on, unless you buy the entire system from front to back. No Kooks kit or SW kit will bolt to any part of the stock Marauder exhaust.

Carry on and good job rallying the troops Taeiman!

[TAKEDOWN]

Guys, when you buy exhaust components, plan on taking it to an exhaust shop for final fitment, unless you are a good welder and you have a helper that will keep the tailpipes straight when doing so.

Nothing about exhaust is ever bolt on, unless you buy the entire system from front to back. No Kooks kit or SW kit will bolt to any part of the stock Marauder exhaust.

Carry on and good job rallying the troops Taeiman!

Thanks on the advice Zack. Should there be any requests when ordering these Headers or parts that we should be aware of?

[red]

Thanks Taemian for organizing the group buy! These are excellent headers, and I posted my experiences here (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=47476) for anyone interested in reading.

[Taemian]

How did this thing get to grow six pages in one day?!?!?!?

I was home from work with an injured leg, but am going back on light duty tomorrow. Don't plan on me responding to a million questions like I did today, and certainly not as fast.

Here's what I know....we have 5 orders at a confirmed 15% discount. I will TRY to call tomorrow to see if we can get a 20% discount if we get 6 orders.

I'm finally hitting the hay. Probably won't be back on til this time tomorrow. Thanks to Red for the great post!

[TAKEDOWN]

OK....Let me edit my pre-order...

Just Headers with ceramic coating, and 3 in. flange welded on...

and... just three (3) O'2 bungs...

Thanks Taemian...

ALOHA

I want the same set up as Local Boy!

[Local Boy]

^^^Takedown...You won't need three O'2 bungs, unless you will be running a wide band A/F gauge...The other two bungs are to mount the rear O'2 sensors...

They (bungs) are cheap, just in case the rear O'2 sensors need special placement...

ALOHA

[red]

The other two bungs are to mount the rear O'2 sensors...
The front O2 sensors... the rears are deleted and disabled via tuning. ;)

[red]

Thanks to Red for the great post!
You're quite welcome! And to those of you considering the group buy, these are the best constructed headers you can get for the Marauder. Also, as I mentioned in my other post, between the headers, custom midpipes, mufflers, and intake spacer (plus a little A/F tweaking), I picked up 40 HP at the wheel... on a naturally aspirated car!

[Local Boy]

My rear O'2 sensors are functional...I'm pretty sure of this...

ALOHA

[red]

My rear O'2 sensors are functional...I'm pretty sure of this...
Alright, my mistake. I was assuming you had or were planning to delete the rear O2s, but guess not!

[Bigdough]

Damn, they are still expensive. Why are they $900. Anyone wanna lend me a set so I can have my friend fab me up a set.

[MCAT]

FYI both Stainless Works part #'s (mauhdror{w/out cat's) &
(maucat w/cat's) will bolt right up to your stock H-pipe, just note that the new lead pipe is 2.5" & the stock H-pipe is a little smaller (2.25 ?)
so there is a little mismatch in the inside diameter.
P.S. it is all "bolt on" only issue can be header rub with the stearing shaft (this issue varies header to header)

[Local Boy]

(Red) I never understood the reasoning behind disabling the rear O'2?

PLease explain...

ALOHA

[red]

FYI both Stainless Works part #'s (mauhdror{w/out cat's) &
(maucat w/cat's) will bolt right up to your stock H-pipe
As you mention, each header is different. Case in point: in pictures 4 and 5 here (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=47476), you can see that the left header angles down and the right header angles out, which required custom pipe fabrication to get them to match up to the stock exhaust (see picture 2 and note the difference in bends). I imagine that one would have limited flexibility assembling their pipes using band clamps and for my headers, I do not believe that setup could have simply bolted-on.


the stock H-pipe is a little smaller (2.25 ?)
so there is a little mismatch in the inside diameter
The majority of the exhaust is 2", including the inlet/outlet of the stock muffler and the midpipes (obviously the actual crossover tube is smaller). Only the tailpipes, including the over-the-axle section, are 2¼".


it is all "bolt on" only issue can be header rub with the stearing shaft (this issue varies header to header)
Others (including myself) have had issues with the EGR. And, there were previously noted issues with the over-the-axle sections on the SW full exhaust system.

Again, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from this purchase as these are extremely well constructed headers for the Marauder; however, you must realize that there is a good probability that some fabrication will be required, as with any header.

[red]

Damn, they are still expensive. Why are they $900. Anyone wanna lend me a set so I can have my friend fab me up a set.
I was not happy about the price, especially compared to header costs on other cars (you can buy steel truck headers off Summit for only $100). I considered trying to fit Mustang headers, but after looking into some options, I decided I didn't want to deal with the potential headaches. At least the group buys get the cost down to something reasonable. Though one of the more expensive purchases for my car, it was definitely had one of the largest returns.

[red]

(Red) I never understood the reasoning behind disabling the rear O'2?

PLease explain...
The primary function of the rear oxygen sensor is for emissions monitoring of the catalytic converter(s). The misunderstanding a lot of times is that it only tells you when things have gone bad. In fact, for most manufacturers it has some (usually minor) control over the fuel trims in order to maximize catalyst efficiency and life. In my case, I do not want an additional factor mucking with my fuel trims and will preference perfomance-oriented tuning based on my presumably more accurate wide band sensor.

[Local Boy]

Thanks Red...

I appreciate your response, and respect your point of view...

ALOHA

[Taemian]

The ordering procedure is now posted in the edited first post of this thread. Please check it out.:D

[ImpalaSlayer]

alright man! nice going!

[Taemian]

Final ordering procedure is now posted in Post #1.....start ordering after you read it!

[Local Boy]

Thanks Taemain...

Awesome work, brutha...

Thanks for jumping on Fellas!!!

Good Luck with all your installs...

ALOHA

[Local Boy]

Just spoke to Jim, at Stainless...

I pointed out the steering "rub" issue...

Really nice guy...

Orders in!!!!

Now, just gotta wait...

ALOHA

[ImpalaSlayer]

sent him an email

[TAKEDOWN]

Ordered and spoke with Jim, what a great guy! He took his time with me, was very patient especially on a Friday. To top it off his shop was closing in 10 minutes and answered every question I had. Taemian, NOW can I thank you for getting this deal together!

[Taemian]

Ok everybody, make sure you call Jim asap. He wants to get our orders going, and give his guys our order to start cranking them out.

Call the 1-800 number and they will either call you back within 15 minutes, or email you. Jim is now ALL alone there in the sales department, so please be as patient and friendly as you can be. It will only help the next MM group buy (whenever that may be) as well.

[freakstatus]

Done and done. Headers, cats, lead pipes....:cool::banana:

[Local Boy]

RIGHT-ON Derek!!!

WOOOHOOO....

ALOHA

[FastMerc]

Orderd mine earlier today,cant wait.:D

[Zack]

Orderd mine earlier today,cant wait.:D

Whos installing them?

[Zack]

Chicago guys:
$300 for me to install these headers.
Cant beat that with a stick :D

[sd8683]

Chicago guys:
$300 for me to install these headers.
Cant beat that with a stick :D

Ahhhhhhhh........... Why could'nt i live closer to chicago:alone:

[Shora]

Chicago guys:
$300 for me to install these headers.
Cant beat that with a stick :D

Don't you want to come live in FL? It's nice and hot! Bumping your fingers in the cold is not fun.

Come on down,
where bumping your fingers in the sun,
is fun.

[Glenn]

We never talked about cost/performance with the tube headers vs short Cobra headers on especially SC cars. Nah! on second thought, it wasn't understood on .com so I'll just skip it on .net. Spend your money.

Glenn :burnout:

[Zack]

We never talked about cost/performance with the tube headers vs short Cobra headers on especially SC cars. Nah! on second thought, it wasn't understand on .com so I'll just skip it on .net. Spend your money.

Glenn :burnout:

What? :confused:

Long tubes= mo powa!

[burt ragio]

sd863 - what do you say we try to work something out with Zack I need my sw headers installed. We are just an hour apart ?

[sd8683]

sd863 - what do you say we try to work something out with Zack I need my sw headers installed. We are just an hour apart ?

Well I don't have SW's headers unfortunatly.... I have kooks, I don't know if that would make a differance in price? I'm sure it would. I'm open to working something out.

Sean

Oh BTW, Zack, New England is beautiful in the fall:)

[TAKEDOWN]

Ahhhhhhhh........... Why could'nt i live closer to chicago:alone:

I feel bad now! Let us know if you ever come to town! :beer:

[blazen71]

I'm gonna give Stainless Works a call tomorrow. I just might have to get me a set! With my Procharger install it sound like headers are a must. Will I need a Dyno tune after the Headers are installed? I guess an N/A car wouldn't need it but what about a S/C car?

[Joe Walsh]

Well I don't have SW's headers unfortunatly.... I have kooks, I don't know if that would make a differance in price? I'm sure it would. I'm open to working something out.



The Kooks are still very nice headers. I have them and they are light years ahead of anything else except the Stainless Works headers.
I think that the Stainless Works are better primarily because of the bigger collector size and the fact that the Kooks passenger's side collector does not turn a full 90 degrees to run parallel with the floor pan. Its almost like a 3/4 length header while the driver's side is a full length header.
I had absolutely no interference with the steering shaft on my Kook's headers.

[Taemian]

IMPORTANT NOTICE: FOR ANYONE WHO HAS ORDERED THE CERAMIC COATING OPTION. ($80 overcharge)

After ordering my headers (to which I added the high flow cats/lead pipes and ceramic header coating....thanks to Derek and Dave, you jerks!), I had a problem.

My order was exactly the same as Dave's, yet was 9 dollars and change MORE than his. Re-doing all the math, I found out that anyone with the ceramic coating was OVERCHARGED. Our original contact at Stainless was Scott, and when Jim took over, he promised to honour the 20% discount. Bottom line? He didn't give any of us a 20% discount on the ceramic coating.

If you ordered it, you need to call Jim ASAP and get this straightened out. When I figured the math out and called him, I had to leave a message on his machine, and he didn't call me back.

I will not accept any discount of less than 20% on the coating. First off, I can get the headers Jet-HOT coated here for $275 retail. Jim already was trying to charge Dave $450 for the coating, until Dave made him look at their own website where the price is listed at $400. Jim said it costs them $450 just to get it done.:rolleyes:

The problem lies where any coating put on other than by Stainless Works will void the lifetime warranty of the headers. That by definition makes it a PRODUCT that they are selling, and therefore eligible for the 20% discount. We have no choice other than to buy their (currently overpriced) coating to preserve the warranty, so I am unwilling to accept an argument that "it is the price of an outside vendor, we can't give you a discount on it".

Again, if there is ANY problem, we would send the headers back to SW for warranty, so since they are accepting full responsibility (and setting the guarantee conditions for it) it is a product of theirs. I was repeatedliy assured that we would receive 20% off of our total order. My order included the ceramic coating, plain and simple.

I called my Visa company to dispute any charge that SW has put on it, but no transaction had been processed yet. I STRONGLY suggest that if you ordered the ceramic coating, you call Jim immediately and get the total changed. This is no grey area, this is black and white...and worth $80 off the price. That's no small chunk of change to me.

Strange math....
Dave's coated headers + lead pipes + Cats = 1687.xx
Ian's coated headers + lead pipes + Cats = 1696.xx

:confused::confused::confused:

Headers/pipes/cats (1609.xx) + coating (400.00) SHOULD be 2009.xx total. 20% discount would make it about $1610, not almost 1700!

[Joe Walsh]

I'm gonna give Stainless Works a call tomorrow. I just might have to get me a set! With my Procharger install it sound like headers are a must. Will I need a Dyno tune after the Headers are installed? I guess an N/A car wouldn't need it but what about a S/C car?

I would get a dyno tune after you install both the F.I.T. Procharger S/C and the headers.
The headers will allow the engine to move more air and with a S/C it is even more important to get the tune right.

[Spectragod]

Chicago guys:
$300 for me to install these headers.
Cant beat that with a stick :D

Does that include room/board? Or is this a while you wait type of operation? Do you have a loaner car program? Are you insured? How much if I help? :lol:

[Spectragod]

On a more serious note, is there any advantage to going without the cats?

[burt ragio]

Well I don't have SW's headers unfortunatly.... I have kooks, I don't know if that would make a differance in price? I'm sure it would. I'm open to working something out.

Sean

Oh BTW, Zack, New England is beautiful in the fall:)

Your Kooks will do just fine. As for Zack what do you think a round trip air line ticket would cost to Logan or Providence ? Do you think he would be open to the idea ?

[sd8683]

Your Kooks will do just fine. As for Zack what do you think a round trip air line ticket would cost to Logan or Providence ? Do you think he would be open to the idea ?


Its worth a shot.... Hopefully read this and reply.

[MCAT]

On a more serious note, is there any advantage to going without the cats?

no advantage power wise if you run no cats vs. "random technology" cats,
(this has been prooven on a dyno)
though they may affect the sound a little

[FastMerc]

Whos installing them?i DO NOT KNOW YET DO TO THE FACT SOME OTHER THINGS WILL DONE TO CAR! :)

[red]

"random technology" cats
Why the quotes? That's the manufacturer's name. Visit http://www.randomtechnology.com/.

[Spectragod]

no advantage power wise if you run no cats vs. "random technology" cats,
(this has been prooven on a dyno)
though they may affect the sound a little

So basically the advantage would be saving the $$$ that would be spent on cats...... interesting.

[TAKEDOWN]

Why the quotes? That's the manufacturer's name. Visit http://www.randomtechnology.com/.

Wow those look sharp, I wish I saw them earlier.

[red]

Wow those look sharp, I wish I saw them earlier.
They're way overpriced. The Car Sound (a.k.a., MagnaFlows) are less than half the cost and are spun metallic substrates (same technology).

[TAKEDOWN]

ahhhh, okay... never mind! Thanks!

[MCAT]

Fyi....if you order the cat's with the headers from SW, you get Random tech cat's........if you can handle the cost why would you not run cats,
if there would be no performance loss?.....it is illeagl (Federal) to remove cat's....
flame suit on, but if you can afford to stay compliant why wouldnt you?

p.s: I say this even though I live in an area that test (s.e Wis)
& I think emmissions testing is as much B.S.:bs: as Global warming.

[MCAT]

Why the quotes? That's the manufacturer's name. Visit http://www.randomtechnology.com/.

Yes, I was misusing the quotes to state _brandname_

according to an article I read they were the first with this technology.....?

[Spectragod]

Fyi....if you order the cat's with the headers from SW, you get Random tech cat's........if you can handle the cost why would you not run cats,
if there would be no performance loss?.....it is illeagl (Federal) to remove cat's....
flame suit on, but if you can afford to stay compliant why wouldnt you?

p.s: I say this even though I live in an area that test (s.e Wis)
& I think emmissions testing is as much B.S.:bs: as Global warming.

The only reason I asked is because they offer off road pipes. I think I can afford it, let me see if I have enough rolled change.:P Since you brought it up twice "if I can afford it", that's my smarta$$ answer.:flamer:

[Taemian]

To all who have ordered the ceramic coating, I advise you strongly to cancel that and get it done locally. I have been quoted $275 Canadian for the same Jet Hot ceramic coating done locally.
Phone around, $400 is vastly overpriced from the 3 local coating shops that I called.

[Shora]

To all who have ordered the ceramic coating, I advise you strongly to cancel that and get it done locally. I have been quoted $275 Canadian for the same Jet Hot ceramic coating done locally.
Phone around, $400 is vastly overpriced from the 3 local coating shops that I called.


and the warranty?

[Glenn]

For those who care to reason, your $/HP or Cost/Performance is not good with Kooks or SSE. There are alternatives for significantly less cost and far greater ease of installation. But, I am blowing in the wind. Spend your $. I'll continue to run my Cobra shortys with 10 HP less, third of the cost and run in the 11.9s.

Glenn :burnout:

[Shora]

For those who care to reason, your $/HP or Cost/Performance is not good with Kooks or SSE. There are alternatives for significantly less cost and far greater ease of installation. But, I am blowing in the wind. Spend your $. I'll continue to run my Cobra shortys with 10 HP less, third of the cost and run in the 11.9s.

Glenn :burnout:

Glenn,

IMO you are doing a great thing advising us of other options. Please, do not be offended if many still want to buy the kooks or SSW full headers.

I for one want to know more about your Cobra Shorty Headers but don't want to ask for details in "this" thread. If you start a new thread, with detailed info about your Cobra Headers (shorty) I am sure that many would be thankful.

[justbob]

Glenn i would like to hear some info also.
Ok back to headers, sorry.

[Taemian]

and the warranty?

Warranty is not affected by a coating, so long as it is an approved distributor/vendor of Jet Hot, which is the brand that SW uses. The main warranty issues come from wrapping the headers with wraps or shields that are attached with clamps and such, which provide a catalyst for material problems.

So says Jim at SW.

[Taemian]

For those who care to reason, your $/HP or Cost/Performance is not good with Kooks or SSE. There are alternatives for significantly less cost and far greater ease of installation. But, I am blowing in the wind. Spend your $. I'll continue to run my Cobra shortys with 10 HP less, third of the cost and run in the 11.9s.

Glenn :burnout:

I'm very sorry to see you continue your negative line of reasoning. You stated your point, and explained it. Bottom line to me is that of course HP gets more expensive for less gain as the time slips get faster. I would have thought you'd know that by now. Speed costs, how fast do you want to go?

To take a stock vehicle running 16s down to 15s = "X"
To takes it from 15 to 14 = 2.5"X"
14 to 13 = 3.5 or even 4"X"
etc etc....

I'm not sure what you don't understand about the performance VS cost line not being linear. Costs increase exponentially when you're looking to improve on already very fast times. If it costs me more for my SWs than your shorties, but I get 10 hp more, I see two positives. First, I have 10 more hp than you with your manifolds. Period. If I continue that same line of reasoning over several mods, the hp gains accumulate and make a substantial improvement over yours. Second, I'll never have to UPGRADE to better headers later while looking to maximize hp, so no wasting money on a second install/product. I prefer to do things right the first time.

As I've said twice before, your time is indeed quick. But there are faster cars here that run with better, more expensive equipment than yours. That's why they're faster. My particular car in it's current state is no threat to your timeslip....right now. I've owned it exactly 1 year now, and have added a JLT CAI, (small gain/small cost) an SCT tuner w/Lidio's tune (bigger gain, twice the cost) and a Trilogy Eaton (mega gain, mega cost)

What's next for me? Who knows. I know I will probably never get down to your time, Glenn, because slicks won't be seen on my car. I'm really not sure why you continue to engage in a pissing match, telling us we have no logic or reason. We buy more expensive parts to get more hp. Period.

So I guess to you that Eaton owners upgrading to the new twin-screw blowers are a bunch of knuckleheads, huh? All that extra cost for a relatively small improvement over the base level kit?

:confused:

You've stated your point. Thanks for the opinion, and the lower cost, lower performance option. Options are always a good thing.

[TAKEDOWN]

Is that what "You get what you pay for" means?

[MCAT]

The only reason I asked is because they offer off road pipes. I think I can afford it, let me see if I have enough rolled change.:P Since you brought it up twice "if I can afford it", that's my smarta$$ answer.:flamer:
I was not directing my statment to any one individual.

[Spectragod]

I was not directing my statment to any one individual.

Mmmmmm sure, whatever. I ordered all my parts today, I had change left over. :lol:

[blazen71]

I just put my order in today for headers with flanges :D. Looks like I'll be giving Zack a call.

[TAKEDOWN]

I can't wait! I'll be requesting Zack's assistance on the install! Yeah Baby!!!

[Dennis Reinhart]

Ok folks, here's the deal:
I've spoken with Scott over at Stainless Corp about their headers for our MMs, and talked to him about a group buy. As it stands now, myself and another MM owner are going to be ordering headers next week. Scott has offered us a 10% discount for these two orders, and if there are more orders, he may even be able to give us a bigger group discount.
Anyone interested in joining us in ordering will get the same discount we will (10%), with the possibility of a greater discount for everyone depending on the total number of orders.

www.stainlessworks.net (http://www.stainlessworks.net/) <---- Link

I hope the fact that they aren't vendors here doesn't get this post killed, as I'm only trying to get a bigger discount via a larger group. It is ME, not THEM soliciting for business. Is that ok, or am I screwing up by doing this?

EDIT: DISCOUNT IS NOW AT 20% FOR ALL ORDERS (Confirmed on Friday, Sept 19, as per Jim at Stainless)

THIS LIST BELOW WILL BE UPDATED AS ORDERS COME IN:

Taemian: Headers only
Dave: Headers+ Ceramic coating/Lead Pipes/ high Flow Cats
Local Boy: Headers + Ceramic coating + 3" flanges.
Impala Slayer: Headers only
Peace2Peep: Headers + Ceramic coating + 3" flanges
Takedown: Headers + Ceramic coating + 3" flanges

ORDERING PROCEDURE: Ok guys, here's how we'll do it. Once I confirm tomorrow that we have a 20% group discount, I will post it here. (20% discount is now confirmed)

NEW INFO: Scott is no longer employed at SSW (?!?!?) but Jim has taken over our order. The 20% discount will be honoured, but the ordering procedure has been changed. Jim would like each person to email their order to him at: jimstainlessworks@windstream.n et and mention "Ian's Marauder group buy"

Please give him the product code that is listed for the item(s) you want, as well as any flange/bung info you want him to add. Also, I'm asking EVERYONE who orders to mention that there have been issues with steering shaft rub. I spoke to him about making sure this batch is paid close attention to in that regard, and he asked to just remind him in the orders. This mass reminder from each of us will hopefully remind him to make sure the techs build the headers with a watchful eye on this.

Here is what I found out today, I have tried to contact Taemian, to advertise and offer a group buy here you need to be a paying vendor here, to be a dealer for www.stainlessworks.net (http://www.stainlessworks.net/) you have to meet a $10,000 buy in, I am willing to do this, Taemian please call me tomorrow, you got this started and you have done a great job, so call me tomorrow, I have talked to SSW today and I can have everything in place by Friday to place a order for minimum of 11 sets. I cannot advertise under MAP but I am willing to do a great deal, for the club, all kits will be ordered at the same time, so we need a list started if you want to get this GB started, lets do it. Or any one here can put up 10K and become a paying vendor here and do it on there own, it makes no difference to me, if I can help I will.

Here are three options.

A. Headers only

B. Headers with X Pipe

C. Complete Headers with mufflers.

[TAKEDOWN]

Uhhhhh I'm confused!?!

[red]

Here is what I found out today, I have tried to contact Taemian, to advertise and offer a group buy here you need to be a paying vendor here, to be a dealer for www.stainlessworks.net (http://www.stainlessworks.net) you have to meet a $10,000 buy in, I am willing to do this, Taemian please call me tomorrow, you got this started and you have done a great job, so call me tomorrow, I have talked to SSW today and I can have everything in place by Friday to place a order for minimum of 11 sets. I cannot advertise under MAP but I am willing to do a great deal, for the club, all kits will be ordered at the same time, so we need a list started if you want to get this GB started, lets do it. Or any one here can put up 10K and become a paying vendor here and do it on there own, it makes no difference to me, if I can help I will.
Group buy hijack? If Dennis can get them cheaper and everyone is ok with that, then great. But, I think it'd be best to ask first (and wait for response) and if they're not, then organize the next group buy. Taemian's put a lot of work into this and I would say it'd be understandable if he and the other's feel a bit used.

Also, are you saying that MM.net REQUIRES one to be a vendor to organize a group buy? If this is the case, it has not been consistently enforced in the past, and if it winds up being enforced particularly for this case, I would say that is most suspicious. This is supposed to be an enthusiast site and if one member is selflessly (i.e., not for profit) organizing a buy, then how is this not inline with the enthusiast theme?

[Taemian]

Hi folks!

Just got DR's messages, and am a bit confused. DR, I'm sorry if I stepped on toes by setting up this group buy. I made sure to ask in the first post, and figured I would be told if there was a problem. I'm sorry if there is in fact a problem.

As it is, I'm not sure what a group buy set up by you at this point would be doing. I know at least 3 of us have already paid SW via credit cards, and the amount has been put through, so I don't understand what and where this leaves us. If they become vendors, and you have a cheaper price, where does that leave those of us who have already paid?? Also, I didn't see headers/cats as an option, and that's what Derek, Dave and I ordered, so would we still be out of the loop?

Dennis, you gave me your phone #, but it's almost 5$/minute from my Canadian cell phone to your number. You can call me if you like at 604-537-6176, I'm on Pacific time.

I am sorry for any confusion or bad etiquette on my part, I wasn't trying to circumvent details. I'd never set anything like this up, and thought that asking about it would reveal any problems. Please accept my public apologies if I have misstepped with this endeavour.

Ian

EDIT The list of orders is not complete, a few more people have said they were purchasing items as well. If you are not on the list, but have ordered or plan on ordering, please post it here for Dennis' overall headcount.

[Shora]

How much are ya'll paying for shipping?

I have too many projects going and need to figure out my total costs (with install, Magnaflow cats and mufflers).

[Taemian]

How much are ya'll paying for shipping?

I have too many projects going and need to figure out my total costs (with install, Magnaflow cats and mufflers).

There is no standard set flat amount, we pay what it costs according to the shipping company. Farther = more $$, closer = less $$.

[freakstatus]

Uhhhhh I'm confused!?!

Ditto......

[Peace2Peep]

Dude I go on a road trip and the group buy gets hi-jacked? Boy, I thought we spent a couple weeks on this thing and now its getting taken over? Unless I'm dealing with the originator of this deal I'm out...I dont like this "Big Brother" johnny come lately routine.

[Shora]

I really like this site and the people/ vendors here.

What I don't understand is why there is a problem. If no current vendor sells a particular item that the members want, then their should be NO PROBLEM organizing a group buy for that said item.

I like the idea of supporting our vendors but we shouldn't be limited to what we can buy because they don't carry a product.

Not every penny spent by the members here HAS to go to the vendors. They should earn our money and loyalty by offering the products that we want, at the best prices, and with the best customer service. If they do that (some already do) they will keep earning our business.

With that said, if the vendor(s) "wants" or "can" become a vendor of the said product in hopes of being able to offer the members a greater discount that would be great, but it shouldn't be forced on the members.

Something about the recent event here doesn't add up. Why was everything rolling along fine even with the limited customers (under 5 paid) and now we "need" to have 11 paying customers?

Also, the 10K to become a vendor for the said product doesn't add up since nobody (here) makes a profit on group buys. They just "save" the members money.

It doesn't seem like the problem is from Stainless Steel Works since they are processing the orders at the discounted rate even with the limited number of buyers.

The members here seem to be happy that they can use this forum for "everything Marauder related (and more)" and not only products that the vendors carry.

I fear for what will happen if we can "only" buy/ discuss the products that are currently sold by the vendors.

I have bought products from a number of vendors here, but not because I had to. It was because I wanted to.

[MM03MOK]

I will jump in here.....this happened at my suggestion and direction. Dennis is a vendor of a competing product - Kooks. We had two choices....either Stainless Works becomes a vendor or an existing MM.Net vendor becomes dealer for SW. It took two weeks to iron all this out. I chose not to close the thread down in the meantime. Our vendors are a big supporter of the website and we would have welcomed SW as a vendor. In fact we tried a few years ago, at the suggestion of Mat Pearce, to bring SW on board. They were very interested, but never followed through after repeated outreaches. I certainly don't read every single thread and have had my head buried in MV6 planning for the last number of months.

[O's Fan Rich]

One stop shopping can be a good thing.
There have been some small issues that needed to be worked out during the last SW GB that FIT put together and they were more easily handled due to the "central dealer" way it was handled.
This might not be a bad thing as long as your costs don't change. Then Dennis may be able to offer lower costs for others down the road who can't do the GB now.
Maybe he could also offer the Cobra Shorties to make sure Glenn is happy, too?:poke::lol:

[Spectragod]

My set, (headers,cats,pipes) is a done deal, bought and paid for. I hope no one thinks that we should cancel our orders and fufill a 11 order head count.

FWIW, when I spoke with Jim on Monday, he told me that 6 other members had already placed their orders.

[Zack]

I will gladly take over this group buy so those who have already committed dont feel like they have been ***** in the ass with no lube.

This is the biggest bunch of BS ive ever seen.

[Taemian]

I will jump in here.....this happened at my suggestion and direction. Dennis is a vendor of a competing product - Kooks. We had two choices....either Stainless Works becomes a vendor or an existing MM.Net vendor becomes dealer for SW. It took two weeks to iron all this out. I chose not to close the thread down in the meantime. Our vendors are a big supporter of the website and we would have welcomed SW as a vendor. In fact we tried a few years ago, at the suggestion of Mat Pearce, to bring SW on board. They were very interested, but never followed through after repeated outreaches. I certainly don't read every single thread and have had my head buried in MV6 planning for the last number of months.

I would have appreciated even a single PM of your intentions during the two weeks that you say it took you to iron things out.

This thread is also posted at "the other site", and has gained orders from there, too. Orders from that side weren't added to the list posted here for the most part out of me not wanting to stir any pots.

The mods at the "other board" also did the exact opposite of what happened here. They said "Anything that benefits the club members, is fine to post." They told me that 2 days after my first post in relation to me asking about it. They also didn't wait and try to do a backroom deal using our work and costs for them to then make a profit.

Bottom line as I see it, and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong:
DR wants to use our group buy in order to fufill the dollar amount (11k) for becoming a SW vendor, to receive a big discount from SW and carry their products. He will make money then on every item sold in the future, as he will get a big discount and pass on a smaller discount to future purchasers. Since many of us have already paid, we won't receive a discount, so what use is it to us?

If this is right, I'm #$%& at how things have been handled. Dennis, feel free to phone me, and I will definitely be patient and polite in listening to what light you can shed on this whole subject. I'm mostly pissed that you and the mods seemed to have taken a "wait and see" status with this post. That is to say "If it benefits US, then we'll let it slide, as we watch over a two week period. If it doesn't benefit us, we'll threaten to close the thread."

I have been on the board for some time now, and have remained FAR AWAY from the political crap between the two boards. I know that some of the folks ordering WOULD NEVER APPROVE of their $$ being used to benefit certain people, and that is their right. Tallying all the orders from both boards, and only having it benefit ONE VENDOR, doesn't seem fair in a logical and neutral point of view. I'm not sure what the solution would be at this point. Maybe I should become the vendor for SW and make both parties happy.;)

[KillJoy]

This is why a VENDOR of the site SHOULD NOT BE an OWNER of the site.

Dennis - You call this site a "club". However, for you, it is a marketing machine, and your "livelyhood".

<period>

A Member, got a GB together for a product not offered here. Why is it that he should have to be a Vendor? The Member is not getting anything more than a good deal, and wanting to pass it along to other Members.

A Vendor trying to bully this out is not good. One hellova good offer from a Vendor has already been bullied away due to "You can't sell that for that cheap!"

This is SIMPLY AMAZING!

:down:

KillJoy

[O's Fan Rich]

I will gladly take over this group buy so those who have already committed dont feel like they have been




Not a bad alternative...

[Joe Walsh]

Bottom line as I see it, and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong:
DR wants to use our group buy in order to fufill the dollar amount (11k) for becoming a SW vendor, to receive a big discount from SW and carry their products. He will make money then on every item sold in the future, as he will get a big discount and pass on a smaller discount to future purchasers. Since many of us have already paid, we won't receive a discount, so what use is it to us?

If this is right, I'm #$%& at how things have been handled. Dennis, feel free to phone me, and I will definitely be patient and polite in listening to what light you can shed on this whole subject. I'm mostly pissed that you and the mods seemed to have taken a "wait and see" status with this post. That is to say "If it benefits US, then we'll let it slide, as we watch over a two week period. If it doesn't benefit us, we'll threaten to close the thread."

I have been on the board for some time now, and have remained FAR AWAY from the political crap between the two boards. I know that some of the folks ordering WOULD NEVER APPROVE of their $$ being used to benefit certain people, and that is their right. Tallying all the orders from both boards, and only having it benefit ONE VENDOR, doesn't seem fair in a logical and neutral point of view. I'm not sure what the solution would be at this point. Maybe I should become the vendor for SW and make both parties happy.;)


Unfortunately, that was my first thought when I read this thread.

:(

[Hotrauder]

Here we go again...damn....:bs: Dennis

[Zack]

Im still willing to take this over.
Just say the word.
Rest assured I will not profit one red cent from this :up:

[Colonel]

History repeats itself because people don't change.

[Local Boy]

YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!!!!

YOU PEOPLE ARE PISSING ME OFF!!!

Killjoy hit it right on the head...

STOP TRYING TO BULLY US, FOR YOUR PROFIT!!!!

It's clear as day....Moderators...Please DO NOT try to spin this in anyway but the TRUTH!!!

Mine are bought and paid for...NOW LEAVE ME AND EVERYONE ELSE ALONE!!!!

ALOHA

BTW: Thanks ZACK for your support!!!

[sd8683]

Even though I don't have any intentions of getting anything in this GB, if this GB gets railroaded I will NEVER spend another dime with DR, sorry to be so blunt but its true.

Sean

[2DMAX]

Although being a fairly new member (since March this year) I have found this forum and for the most part, the members, a very valuable resource for information, tech tips and assistance for the Marauder. In addition, it has enabled me to become friends with members who share the interest of owning or wanting to own a Marauder. Since being a member I have had the pleasure of meeting Ian who initially instigated the group buy for the SW headers etc. We originally talked about what mods we have done and wanted to do and the exhaust was a topic of discussion in regards to Kooks or SW. The members here have provided pros and cons for both, and I appreciate all the posts relating to these products. I elected to go with SW as did Ian, and prior to placing my order, Ian suggested that he make available to others the proposal of doing a group buy. Ian has put a lot of effort into negotiating a discount which is open to all of us, with no gain or profit to him whatsoever. I have placed my order directly with SW as per the very first threads of this subject, and did have a little discrepancy with prices posted by SW and what they wanted to charge. However, Jim sorted everything out and made it very easy to order and apply the discount as negotiated. I am not one to enter into any politics or personally flame anyone in this forum as I believe it has only negative effects on all of us. The purpose of my post is to make a request on behalf of Ian, that the group buy is still as stated, all you have to do is pick up the phone and make all your calls or concerns to Jim at SW. He is fully aware of the program, and has indicated there is no change as far as any customer calling him with the group buy info and placing an order. Ian has been contacted by a lot of you wanting to know information, however he can only answer after 10:00 PM Pacific Time. Also, he is tied up with a movie production which makes it difficult to answer this thread during the day, as well as his wife going through the last 15 or so days of fun waiting for their baby to arrive. If anyone has any questions about anything to do with this group buy, please call Jim direct on their toll free number 1-800-878-3635 and he will look after you. Just for the record, I ordered the complete exhaust system as per their web page on Sept. 19th, including the Ceramic coating. Delivery for the MAUCAT option with headers etc. is next week by the 8th of October and about 3 weeks for the MAUEX option.

[bigmerc2003]

i posted this in another post but i would like it here as well:

Question for everytone including Dennis, i am confused about the whole vendor thing. There is a lot of research here about lots of products, not just the ones supported by vendors. While vendors help keep the bills paid for and the site runing they do not keep the members here. I can go either way on the whole Dennis thing with the header group buy, maybe he is willing to take the buy under his wing and keep it from be canned by the webmaster or maybe he is trying to take over another product for his own profit, Dennis what were you tring to do? I have read a lot of info about Dennis on this website and have high regards for the man without ever talking or meeting with him (although i would love to and hope to one day do business with him but the finaical situation does not allow right now). I feel that Dennis may have had the members best interest a hand by tryig to help out the header group buy. this man does a lot of work above and beyond the call of duty. that being said, no posts should be vapoized becasue they are in favor of a product that is not sponsoring the site as there would be only a handful of posts left. this site should be a way for the entire marauder community to come together. i think it is great that there are canadian guys talking to florida guys and i can see what a guy in Hawaii is doing to his car. If i had the money i would donate to the site in a heart beat and one of these days i will

[Dennis Reinhart]

I will jump in here.....this happened at my suggestion and direction. Dennis is a vendor of a competing product - Kooks. We had two choices....either Stainless Works becomes a vendor or an existing MM.Net vendor becomes dealer for SW. It took two weeks to iron all this out. I chose not to close the thread down in the meantime. Our vendors are a big supporter of the website and we would have welcomed SW as a vendor. In fact we tried a few years ago, at the suggestion of Mat Pearce, to bring SW on board. They were very interested, but never followed through after repeated outreaches. I certainly don't read every single thread and have had my head buried in MV6 planning for the last number of months.

Normally you have to be a advertising Vendor to sell products here, I was notified of this by the moderators, so I called SSW and was asking them to become a vendor, any one here can become a dealer if you are a ligament business, and have there license, so I was not trying to do any thing, I was trying to help, I just spoke to Jim.

I did not know orders have been placed in fact there ready to ship.

So all of this was just a simple misunderstanding that a few members just took totally wrong so I apologize. Had I been called as I asked this would have never happened.
Jim is going to become a supporter here with a banner add, this GB is still on. I will have no effect on this. I have nothing to do with this but in the future, I may become a vendor for them.

Dennis

[Local Boy]

Thanks Dennis...

I appreciate your input...and will accept this as a mis-understanding...

ALOHA

[Peace2Peep]

Hmmmm...backpeddling anybody?

I'm gonna call SW directly.

Amazingly Retarded! BTW its legitimate, Dennis, not "Ligament"...but that was funny!

[KillJoy]

Normally you have to be a advertising Vendor to sell products here, I was notified of this by the moderators, so I called SSW and was asking them to become a vendor, any one here can become a dealer if you are a ligament business, and have there license, so I was not trying to do any thing, I was trying to help, I just spoke to Jim.

I did not know orders have been placed in fact there ready to ship.

So all of this was just a simple misunderstanding that a few members just took totally wrong so I apologize. Had I been called as I asked this would have never happened.
Jim is going to become a supporter here with a banner add, this GB is still on. I will have no effect on this. I have nothing to do with this but in the future, I may become a vendor for them.

Dennis

I call BS. Had nothing been said you would have gone on with it yourself. BUT... you got caught with your hand in the cookiejar by the WHOLE forum.

<period>

KillJoy

[Dennis Reinhart]

[quote=Peace2Peep;665095]

I'm gonna call SW directly.

quote]


Do that, ask for Jim I just got off the phone with him. And then you can see there is no back pedaling on my part if that is what you are referring to.

[Dennis Reinhart]

No Steve I was asked to look into this Mary confirmed it, and your wrong why not call Jim at SSW and ask him. It makes no difference. It all has been resloved. With Jims help.

[RF Overlord]

Is there any need for this thread to continue? Dennis has already acknowledged the misunderstanding and backed away so the existing GB can proceed.

To those who continue to believe there are nefarious agendas at work here, I say: You really need to go look at Haliburton's role in Iraq; it's MUCH more interesting.

[ctrlraven]

http://mossavi.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/motivational-poster.jpg

[Pops]

http://mossavi.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/motivational-poster.jpg

I like it and think I may go home for a nap!

[Dennis Reinhart]

As I have said any one can twist any thing, I NEVER meant to steel any ones sales I was trying to help, the club, I did not know orders were placed but I did talk to Jim and he sent me this to post. So this was all just a a missunderstanding and taken out of context, so lets move on and every one that has placed a order kits are being shipped.

Hello Dennis

Thanks for calling me.

Please post this statement on the forum for me.

First off I want to thank everyone for all the support and orders.

I want to thank the gentlemen that facilitated this group buy.

I want to tell everyone that none of these gentlemen made a single penny.

Not one !!!!!!

I was happy to speak with Dennis.

We have discussed a relationship together as well as future dealership possibilities.

None of the existing orders from the group buy will be affected.

I look forward to serving all of your needs whether it be through a dealer on this site or on an individual basis.

I do agree that having one of your own as a dealer will allow you all added benefits.

thank you for all your support.

jim

[Peace2Peep]

Dennis,
Sorry if you misinterpreted me by thinking I was going to call SW and find out if you are malicious or evil and all that dumb stuff...I really dont care...I just wanted to do business with SW and not a vendor that "mistakenly" missed one of the largest "Hot topic" discussion pages HE moderates sponsors and participates in. I miss lots of threads but NEVER a Group Buy Thread

[TAKEDOWN]

Jeeezzzz! All for a pair of Headers!

[O's Fan Rich]

Jeeezzzz! All for a pair of Headers!

What world are you living in?

[CRUZTAKER]

Two weeks and a hundred and forty four posts later and Dennis joined the illegal group buy thread?

Wow! :rolleyes::sleepy:

I asked in the member forum (yes there is a whole thread about this thread) about Stainless Works already being a member here.
I thought they had been for years now, but just never advertised in their own forum.

If they already are, why is/was there ever a problem with this group buy?
If they are not, it's pretty clear this thread should have been caught two weeks ago on day one. The rules haven't changed. Just the owners.;)



I had to read the entire thread to see what the hassle was for myself.
I did find Glenn's additions interesting however.


We never talked about cost/performance with the tube headers vs short Cobra headers on especially SC cars. Nah! on second thought, it wasn't understood on .com so I'll just skip it on .net. Spend your money.

Glenn :burnout:


What? :confused:

Long tubes= mo powa!

Perhaps not on all blown cars Zack.
We know mine makes gobs of power with my KOOKS and is begging to run bottom 11's.


For those who care to reason, your $/HP or Cost/Performance is not good with Kooks or SSE. There are alternatives for significantly less cost and far greater ease of installation. But, I am blowing in the wind. Spend your $. I'll continue to run my Cobra shortys with 10 HP less, third of the cost and run in the 11.9s.

Glenn :burnout:

Sometimes 11.9 just doesnt cut the mustard.:beer:


Glenn,


I for one want to know more about your Cobra Shorty Headers......

I don't!:P

[O's Fan Rich]

Two weeks and a hundred and forty four posts later and Dennis joined the illegal group buy thread?

Wow! :rolleyes::sleepy:

I asked in the member forum (yes there is a whole thread about this thread) about Stainless Works already being a member here.
I thought they had been for years now, but just never advertised in their own forum.

If they already are, why is/was there ever a problem with this group buy?
If they are not, it's pretty clear this thread should have been caught two weeks ago on day one. The rules haven't changed. Just the owners.;)



I had to read the entire thread to see what the hassle was for myself.
I did find Glenn's additions interesting however.





Perhaps not on all blown cars Zack.
We know mine makes gobs of power with my KOOKS and is begging to run bottom 11's.



Sometimes 11.9 just doesnt cut the mustard.:beer:



I don't!:P

Oh... you Bit*h......:D

[Hotrauder]

Jeeezzzz! All for a pair of Headers!


Only you and Glenn thought that this thread was about headers...If only that were the case.:puke: Dennis

[TAKEDOWN]

Only you and Glenn thought that this thread was about headers...If only that were the case.:puke: Dennis

I understand the situation at hand, I'm just sayin'... I just want headers for my ride, that's all! It's a shame that all this extra drama :argue: is ruining it!

[STLR FN]

I understand the situation at hand, I'm just sayin'... I just want headers for my ride, that's all! It's a shame that all this extra drama :argue: is ruining it!Did someone mention DRAMA.

[red]

...Or any one here can put up 10K and become a paying vendor here and do it on there own, it makes no difference to me
I like how this would lead one to believe that you have to pay $10K to become a vendor here. What's the actual cost?


I did not know orders have been placed in fact there ready to ship.
I really have a hard time believing this since the first post states:

THIS LIST BELOW WILL BE UPDATED AS ORDERS COME IN:

<Six user names omitted>
... and clearly indicates that there are already six orders placed.


So all of this was just a simple misunderstanding that a few members just took totally wrong.
Only a "few" posted since many are afraid to venture outside of the vendor sandbox. Zack and the others have called it like they see it.


This is why a VENDOR of the site SHOULD NOT BE an OWNER of the site.
I couldn't agree more; this is evidently a conflict of interest.


I like the idea of supporting our vendors but we shouldn't be limited to what we can buy because they don't carry a product.
There are a lot of good products out there (e.g., in the Mustang communities) that simply haven't made their way here. Unfortunately, many owners have been brainwashed with marketing that's passed off as technically accurate product information and led to believe that there are no alternatives. My opinion is that vendors should not be able to jump in and discredit other products, especially in the forums that are supposed to be geared toward open, technical discussions, or similarly take over group buys for products they have now decided are valuable.

...

I don't care about the past, all I care is that the negative aspects don't repeat. Crap like this is unacceptable and completely transparent. If it happens again and for whatever reason Zack's hands are tied, I'll do my best to help keep things in check.

[red]

P.S., thanks again Taemian for your work in putting this group buy together. Many appreciate it!

[Taemian]

Good evening folks.

Dennis, as well as members from this board and Motor City Marauders who were all part of the group buy, have asked me to post what has happened, or what I think has happened. I will, but not tonight. I just had a 13.5 hour shift, with 2 hrs commuting time, followed by a 3.5 hour "new parents birthing class". I am exhausted, and in no mood to write out a full explanation of events right now.

That said, I do promise to post up everything I learned from all the sources and parties included...just not tonight. I want to explain it fully to everyone, so I'm asking for everyone to respect my wishes and NOT ADD ANYMORE POSTS, pro or con, until I have my say. Things may seem lessy fuzzy when I post all the facts (as they have been presented to me) and you can all make up your own minds then. I don't think I'll be changing the mind of anyone who has a preconcieved notion already, but I want to be fair to all parties.

I'm sorry I don't have the ability to write it out all now, but I don't want to give a Reader's Digest version of things just to get it out there, everyone involved deserves and requires to see both sides of this debacle, and perhaps perspective will be more obvious.

I'm sorry to have instigated something that provided fuel for a fire, that was not my intention by any stretch. Once I've posted tomorrow, feel free to do whatever you want. But until then, if only as a courtesy to me, please refrain from posting anything here that serves to further incite tempers of either side.

Thank you for your consideration, I promise to do the post asap tomorrow night.

[rayjay]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[FastMerc]

OMG :D This is so funny all I wanted was a set of headers! I didnt know it was going to turn into a political issue :P a hell I got them any way.And cant wait to boost my horsepower with them.I for one didnt know there were channells for this?I just called them and orderd them!

[KillJoy]

I just called them and orderd them!


HA!

:up:

KillJoy

[blazen71]

I just called them and orderd them!

Me too :D !!!!!

[CRUZTAKER]

Order order order!

This grey area of vendor rules needs revamped and soon!
The Logan days are gone and his rules were not set in stone, nor were they perfect.

The company in question made no solicitation here.
A known member did however.
Apparently WE as a member-age agree that WE as members contributing or not should be able to pass on a good once in a while deal without worrying that we may offend OWNER Vendors.

[Local Boy]

AMEN!!!

Thank You...

ALOHA

[teamrope]

I just ordered the WHOLE works. Headers to tips. I saved a lot more money than I did when I switched my car insurance to Geico. :2thumbs::burn:

[Shora]

How are you guys placing your orders this late into the night? Is Jim not watching the debate?

I am waiting to see what Taemian has to say before I even call Jim.

[CRUZTAKER]

....I saved a lot more money than I did when I switched my car insurance to Geico. :2thumbs::burn:


Geckos taste like chicken. :D

[MM03MOK]

This grey area of vendor rules needs revamped and soon!
We agree that the gray area needs to be defined. Rest assured it will so we avoid this from happening again.

Go ahead and place your orders. Jim hopes to be on board with us very soon.

[BruteForce]

I just ordered the WHOLE works. Headers to tips. I saved a lot more money than I did when I switched my car insurance to Geico. :2thumbs::burn:

'bout frickin' time BJ!! Now you'll have the roar to go with the whine. :D

[Taemian]

Preamble: Thank you to everyone for putting this thread on hold. As many of you know, I come from a background of serving in law enforcement. With that in mind, I have extended due process in regards to getting to the bottom of this group buy issue. I believe it to be fair and lets you know why I've framed my response in this particular technical form.


It is important to recognize another part of law. This post deals exclusively with this GB incident. When determining guilt or innocence you are only able to review evidence pertinent to the current matter. Any previous actions from/in the past are inadmissible in reaching a decision for the current matter. Only in sentencing someone are you allowed to bring up past convictions to highlight habitual negative behaviour and punish it accordingly. The current rule of law is "innocent until proven guilty" so that is where I will start from.


Upon first blush the initial post by Dennis Reinhart (DR) seemed to indicate that he was aware of an unauthorized ongoing GB but let it progress to see if it could benefit him. Then when the GB proved a success he stepped in an tried to take it over. His reward would presumably be that the sum total of the GB ( in excess of $10,000) would earn him a preferred vendor status and allow him to profit from this and any future sales of Stainless Works products even though he had nothing to do with initiating, organizing or updating it.

After unsolicited phone calls and PM's to me from DR and various site members I will share with you what I have discerned as objectively as possible.
1. DR says he was made aware of the GB by one of his moderators but only after two weeks into its' existence.
2. Without reading through 10 pages of the thread DR says he made an offer to take it over in order to receive a vendor discount, thereby getting an even cheaper price for members.


I spoke with Jim, our contact at SW, but some of his observations were in direct conflict with statements made by DR. When I asked DR about them he agreed he "may have misunderstood" items discussed with Jim. DR's post of Jim's reply did nothing to address the main discrepancies I had brought up with Jim, and this remains an item of contention. There is no "11K" buy-in number as stated. I was told by Jim at SW that DR offered a $$$ dollar figure in order to recieve a further vendor discount, but Jim replied that this group buy was done. Perhaps further miscommunication?


I spoke directly with a few people and everyone asked for their replies and reasonings to be kept in the strictest of confidence. I will honour those requests though the amount of bad blood involved from both sides is considerable and disturbing. Without exception, the conversations generally began with them telling me why the other side was lying and brought up multiple events that did not pertain in any way to any current matter.

Taking everybody's statements at face value and assuming the best about each person ( which is how I choose to engage), it seems to me that the moderator bears full responsibility for this conflict. The moderator openly stated that he had been working in the background for two weeks yet never notified me once. DR stated that the moderator didn't tell him all the details of the GB especially the fact that it was already in the final stages. If this is a correct interpretation on my part, the moderator needs to accept responsibility and be consistent in the future in regards to what makes a thread admissible or inadmissible. The moderator also needs to act on those grounds immediately, and deal ethically not situationally.


This GB should be finished at this point and any future GBs should be looked at carefully by moderators, especially ones set up by inexperienced members like myself. Since my limited knowledge of procedure was part of the problem, I apologize for that.


On a personal note, I believe DR should not focus on getting the lowest possible prices but rather in building up trust and accountability as a businessman within this community. As was evidenced in the thread, a large number of people chose to assume the worst. This mentality didn't happen overnight. Many shared bad experiences with me privately in fear of being banned or delelted from the site, in addition to those who spoke up in the thread.


I have bought from five different vendors (including DR, Trilogy Motorsports, JLT, Never Enough and ?) and none of them even remotely hit the hot buttons like DR's company does. When one of them missed a part and included another outdated part, the new items were sent overnight to me at no cost, with many apologies sent along. Another vendor had let quality control slip and my product needed a minor but time consuming mod, and I was grudgingly apologised to...sort of. Who do you think I will and won't recommend?


To all vendors: if you send out a product, please make sure all parts are test-fitted and the kits are complete. Be prepared to accept payment in full, and guarantee a full refund if not satisfied. Those are the companies who will (and already do) have a great market share and priceless word of mouth advertising despite any problems that crop up from time to time.


On the other hand, we as a small enthusiast community need to understand that discretion is the better part of valour. Personal attacks are never constructive, though I can understand certain frustrations that were explained to me.


I am looking forward to installing my headers, realizing the new-found power and promptly forgetting about this thread. Thanks very much to all who participated in purchasing and for those who were "coming to my defence" when they believed something had gone awry. I feel no animosity as this matter has been explained to my satisfaction. I do feel sad that there is such an undercurrent of mistrust, and will do anything I can to minimize conflicts here.

And now, without further ado....let the installations begin!

[Taemian]

How are you guys placing your orders this late into the night? Is Jim not watching the debate?

I am waiting to see what Taemian has to say before I even call Jim.

Thank you, Shora. I appreciate your vote of confidence!:)

[Taemian]

I for one didnt know there were channells for this?I just called them and orderd them!

Which was the original plan...let's hope we all learn from this experience!:burnout:

[Local Boy]

Well said...

Pau (Finish)...

ALOHA

[red]

Taemian, thanks for the write-up. I'm sure you'll enjoy the headers!

Concerning the conflict, serious action needs to be taken. Adding or modifying a ToS alone does not suffice. Those with conflicts of interest (i.e., vendors) must NOT be owners. Period. No excuses. Vendors' business activities need to be restricted to their respective forums and violations need to be be handled appropriately. Practices like this deserve being reported to the appropriate consumer agencies...

[Local Boy]

VERY VERY Well said...

I stand behind Red on this...

ALOHA

[teamrope]

Geckos taste like chicken. :D

And they don't make nearly as good of a traction compound as VHT either. :D

[sd8683]

Vendor/owner= FAIL!!!

[freakstatus]

Thanks again for your efforts on this Ian. Sorry you had to go through what you did here. Its all just really too bad on so many levels.

Looks like rain tomorrow...I guess track time may be out eh?

[Taemian]

Thanks again for your efforts on this Ian. Sorry you had to go through what you did here. Its all just really too bad on so many levels.

Looks like rain tomorrow...I guess track time may be out eh?

Afternoon shows a 60% chance of light rain, only 1 mm as well. I'm bringing my helmet to work and will be watching the skies closely!:banana2:

Also, thanks for joining in on this GB. Knowing that all members got a good deal makes this worthwhile to me!

[chader]

You did good Ian.It is too bad that this kind of thing has to waste peoples(your) time when all you are tring to do is, good for others?
I will be eager to here of how your new power works.
I would like to take advantage of all your hard work and purchase some exhaust,but it is not in the cards at this point.
I plan on coming your way next season to give Mission a try.The Calgary track has closed its doors(it sucked anyway).
You did well!
Chad

[Dennis Reinhart]

Preamble: Thank you to everyone for putting this thread on hold. As many of you know, I come from a background of serving in law enforcement. With that in mind, I have extended due process in regards to getting to the bottom of this group buy issue. I believe it to be fair and lets you know why I've framed my response in this particular technical form.


It is important to recognize another part of law. This post deals exclusively with this GB incident. When determining guilt or innocence you are only able to review evidence pertinent to the current matter. Any previous actions from/in the past are inadmissible in reaching a decision for the current matter. Only in sentencing someone are you allowed to bring up past convictions to highlight habitual negative behavior and punish it accordingly. The current rule of law is "innocent until proven guilty" so that is where I will start from.


Upon first blush the initial post by Dennis Reinhart (DR) seemed to indicate that he was aware of an unauthorized ongoing GB but let it progress to see if it could benefit him. Then when the GB proved a success he stepped in an tried to take it over. His reward would presumably be that the sum total of the GB ( in excess of $10,000) would earn him a preferred vendor status and allow him to profit from this and any future sales of Stainless Works products even though he had nothing to do with initiating, organizing or updating it.

After unsolicited phone calls and PM's to me from DR and various site members I will share with you what I have discerned as objectively as possible.
1. DR says he was made aware of the GB by one of his moderators but only after two weeks into its' existence.
2. Without reading through 10 pages of the thread DR says he made an offer to take it over in order to receive a vendor discount, thereby getting an even cheaper price for members.





I spoke directly with a few people and everyone asked for their replies and reasonings to be kept in the strictest of confidence. I will honor those requests though the amount of bad blood involved from both sides is considerable and disturbing. Without exception, the conversations generally began with them telling me why the other side was lying and brought up multiple events that did not pertain in any way to any current matter.

Taking everybody's statements at face value and assuming the best about each person ( which is how I choose to engage), it seems to me that the moderator bears full responsibility for this conflict. The moderator openly stated that he had been working in the background for two weeks yet never notified me once. DR stated that the moderator didn't tell him all the details of the GB especially the fact that it was already in the final stages. If this is a correct interpretation on my part, the moderator needs to accept responsibility and be consistent in the future in regards to what makes a thread admissible or inadmissible. The moderator also needs to act on those grounds immediately, and deal ethically not situationally.


This GB should be finished at this point and any future GBs should be looked at carefully by moderators, especially ones set up by inexperienced members like myself. Since my limited knowledge of procedure was part of the problem, I apologize for that.


On a personal note, I believe DR should not focus on getting the lowest possible prices but rather in building up trust and accountability as a businessman within this community. As was evidenced in the thread, a large number of people chose to assume the worst. This mentality didn't happen overnight. Many shared bad experiences with me privately in fear of being banned or deleted from the site, in addition to those who spoke up in the thread.


I have bought from five different vendors (including DR, Trilogy Motor sports, JLT, Never Enough and ?) and none of them even remotely hit the hot buttons like Dr's company does. When one of them missed a part and included another outdated part, the new items were sent overnight to me at no cost, with many apologies sent along. Another vendor had let quality control slip and my product needed a minor but time consuming mod, and I was grudgingly apologized to...sort of. Who do you think I will and won't recommend?


To all vendors: if you send out a product, please make sure all parts are test-fitted and the kits are complete. Be prepared to accept payment in full, and guarantee a full refund if not satisfied. Those are the companies who will (and already do) have a great market share and priceless word of mouth advertising despite any problems that crop up from time to time.


On the other hand, we as a small enthusiast community need to understand that discretion is the better part of valor. Personal attacks are never constructive, though I can understand certain frustrations that were explained to me.


I am looking forward to installing my headers, realizing the new-found power and promptly forgetting about this thread. Thanks very much to all who participated in purchasing and for those who were "coming to my defense" when they believed something had gone awry. I feel no animosity as this matter has been explained to my satisfaction. I do feel sad that there is such an undercurrent of mistrust, and will do anything I can to minimize conflicts here.

And now, without further ado....let the installations begin! Let me please explain this

I spoke with Jim, our contact at SW, but some of his observations were in direct conflict with statements made by DR. When I asked DR about them he agreed he "may have misunderstood" items discussed with Jim. Dr's post of Jim's reply did nothing to address the main discrepancies I had brought up with Jim, and this remains an item of contention. There is no "11K" buy-in number as stated. I was told by Jim at SW that DR offered a $$$ dollar figure in order to receive a further vendor discount, but Jim replied that this group buy was done. Perhaps further miscommunication?

I spoke to Taemian this morning right after talking to Jim at SSW, at this GB, you are guaranteed a savings, as I said I never knew orders had been placed, email is very easily misread, as well as phone conversations can misinterpreted, when you are as busy as I am some days, SSW has invited me to be a dealer, if I buy 10,000 worth I can get a substantial higher discount than a standard non dealer GB, this is was what I got confused on as a requirement to become a dealer.

I can buy five sets or ten sets, the more I buy my discount gets higher, PLUS I get free shipping, and as I have always done I can pass this on here, if we ever have enough interest, in another SSW GB. I can give the club the best deal I can.


If I become a dealer here Jim wants me to add his logo, but Jim does not have the time to start his own forum I can understand that, I will be the point of contact of any issues you may have if you have bought there kits through me, any member here you can email Jim or Taemian since Taemian did a excelent job up in setting up this GB or you can call SSW for any issues with any thing concerning this GB or for verification of all that is being said here.

Now if you want to be a SSW dealer and you are a vendor here your more than welcome to put up the money to get a much better price than just stanadrd non dealer GB price to save our members here even more money, and I will just stay out of it, all I was trying to do was get a better deal for the club and it was a series of errors that now have been corrected and we just want to move on, any member here that is in on this GB that has bought a tuner from me, I will send you a FREE correction for the SSW even if I do not become a dealer for SSW. I hope every one has a good weekend.

[freakstatus]

Dennis, from my perspective as one of the SW participants that had already paid, it was your timing that made this all look suspect. Bad intentions or not, here is what it looked like:

Ian rallies up a few interested parties to organize a group buy….coincidentally about 10 grand worth of orders are confirmed on the thread.

You swoop in and contact Jim at SW and say that you can get him 10 grand worth of orders if he lets you become a dealer with all the priveledges and thus he become a vendor (thus cashing in on someone elses work).

Plus, if the moderators were keeping an eye on this thread for two weeks, then it seems like they were waiting for the right time to jump in and cash in (why not just shut Ian down from the get-go?).

The fact that you didn’t know that orders were already placed makes it look worse if anything.

So, bad intentions or not, it was perceived as a hijack. When you couple that with the fact you are an owner and vendor it gets even more messed up. And for members that had already placed and paid for orders it threw up even more confusion.

If, though...you were trying to intercede to get us a better deal, then thank you. I'm just saying how I perceived it.

On the flipside, I have purchased products from you in the past and never had an issue. You and Jackie were extremely helpful in providing tracking numbers when shipments were running late etc.

I love this site, I’m on it more that any other webpage and will continue to come here. The knowledge and info is invaluable to me.

P.S. I know Ian is jealous of my Proguard and wishes he had one. His bumper sags more than my grandmas chin....;)

[Dennis Reinhart]

I agree with what you said, I agreed with this before your post, I have apologized for any misunderstanding had I spoke to Ian, and he has stated I tried to several times, this issue would have never happened but Ian is swamped at work so am I, and this is what happened, I have done all I can do, to clear this up and try to show that was not my intention, so thank you for your kind words and your past purchases.

[Taemian]

You did good Ian.It is too bad that this kind of thing has to waste peoples(your) time when all you are tring to do is, good for others?
I will be eager to here of how your new power works.
I would like to take advantage of all your hard work and purchase some exhaust,but it is not in the cards at this point.
I plan on coming your way next season to give Mission a try.The Calgary track has closed its doors(it sucked anyway).
You did well!
Chad

Chad, no time was wasted. I learned that I should ASK before just plowing ahead and doing my own thing. I would've saved everyone alot of hassle.

Well, we got rained out of racing tonight. Dang.

Make sure you give me a heads up before you plan to head out here, so I can book some time off!:D

[sd8683]

Can you say........ DAMAGE CONTROL!!

[FastMerc]

Wow! That is cleared up I hope? Holy #$@% :D

[Agent M79]

Those with conflicts of interest (i.e., vendors) must NOT be owners. Period. No excuses.

Heh. Vendors own web forums. Vendors make the rules and change them at will on their web forums. It's no excuse, it's a reality. Vendors own associations. Vendors own user groups and their conventions. Vendors own a lot of venues that interface with the public that they entirely control to the degree they desire.

Your objection is raised, I surmise, because when an owner does own a web forum, the opportunity always exists that they may violate a users sensibilities or values for their gain or even their whimsy.

If the vendor owner isn't willing to sell their interest in the web forum at the compulsion of it's users, there are alternatives. Go to another web forum that doesn't structure itself in a manner that offers the possibility of these negative opportunities or start your own.


Practices like this deserve being reported to the appropriate consumer agencies...

Hmm. I am not sure what agency would care enough to take some action in relation to a backwater website like mm.net. But, if you feel that mm.net (or it's vendor owner) is 'deserving', I await to hear the results of your efforts in notifying them. If your follow-up gets closed or deleted here, there are other places to keep us posted.

[bob6364]

Ok...I'm a small business owner,that being said I would like to say that if you have never had to pay your bills by going out and selling yourself and your company to people day in and day out you have no idea what its like.If I owned a speed shop and I ran a forum to promote it you bet your ass I would use that forum to its fullest to create business for ME,I'm not saying the hijacking or the alleged hijacking was right,I would have gone to the thread starter and asked him if I could help and if he said no, that would have been the end of it.It would seem DR was blind sided by not getting complete information before stepping in,If someone said Hey Bob hustle over there and you may get yourself a 10k+ order I would have been there with bells on. I would also like to say I have never done business with DR and don't know him or what he even looks like but like we marauder owners share a bond car wise I think we share a common bond in the business world.

[rayjay]

Wow! That is cleared up I hope? Holy #$@% :D

Is it? I fear irrevocable harm has been done to this "club". A number of members have left the site because of this. I was a member of a much larger car forum before coming here. They had a hell of a lot more vendors than here. Not once did I ever see a group buy turn into a mongolian cluster like this thing did. I have serious reservations about the credibiltiy and ethics of this site. Since I'm putting my car up in a month, maybe its time to put this place up too... This is seriously sickening.

[Peace2Peep]

We will miss you rayjay...Godspeed brother! I agree with you, but its so hard to say goodbye...

[Ms. Denmark]

Is it? I fear irrevocable harm has been done to this "club". A number of members have left the site because of this. I was a member of a much larger car forum before coming here. They had a hell of a lot more vendors than here. Not once did I ever see a group buy turn into a Mongolian cluster like this thing did. I have serious reservations about the credibility and ethics of this site. Since I'm putting my car up in a month, maybe its time to put this place up too... This is seriously sickening.Your feelings are understandable but perhaps you'd be willing to give things a 2nd chance. An explanation and an apology has been given. Mistakes and misunderstandings can happen. I'm usually willing to take people at their word until and unless they prove me wrong. Everyone was thrown for a loop but everything worked out. Some important questions were raised and can now be sorted out for future GBs. It is a good forum made that way because of the loyalty of it's members and the willingness of owners to admit mistakes. Hoping you will stay and that we can all lower the heat around here. :beer:

[knine]

Huh? Wow. A little too much happy paste there.

[Ms. Denmark]

Huh? Wow. A little too much happy paste there. Can't help it. I live with dogs. ;) So do you, right?:)

[Pops]

Knine she got ya on that one!

[knine]

Can't help it. I live with dogs. ;) So do you, right?:)
paste = poop ??

[Pat]

Ms Denmark:

Well said ^^^^^, I'm sending Dom over for counseling (he, he).

Regards,

[Peace2Peep]

Ordered my headers today from th guys at Stainless Works. I can't wait to put those babies on! Whhooooo Hooooo!

[TAKEDOWN]

YAAAaaAAAaaaY! My headers are in... YaaaaAAAYYYYY!!! Thanks Taemian, YAAAY!

[Taemian]

YAAAaaAAAaaaY! My headers are in... YaaaaAAAYYYYY!!! Thanks Taemian, YAAAY!

My pleasure! Let me know what you think after they get installed.:D

[Local Boy]

Right-on , Brutha...

Should be any time soon...for me!!!

ALOHA

[Taemian]

YAAAaaAAAaaaY! My headers are in... YaaaaAAAYYYYY!!! Thanks Taemian, YAAAY!

Any issues? One of the local installs here with the full system has had issues including: clamps that don't seal enough and even break, and hangers on the wrong sides of the mufflers. Oh yeah, and a slight bit of steering shaft rub.?!?!?:argh: We took a header into the local Koolcoat shop, and got another eyeful there. I really need to hear everyone's experience so I can talk to Jim at SW about issues.

[scoutrjp]

Taemian, I have not received mine yet (ordered om 9/24) but this dose not sound good. I have left messages for Jim but no return call. Please keep us posted and thanks again for all your efforts

[TooManyFords]

I think I mentioned somewhere that someone should have tried the $200 headers first.....

[TAKEDOWN]

Any issues? One of the local installs here with the full system has had issues including: clamps that don't seal enough and even break, and hangers on the wrong sides of the mufflers. Oh yeah, and a slight bit of steering shaft rub.?!?!?:argh: We took a header into the local Koolcoat shop, and got another eyeful there. I really need to hear everyone's experience so I can talk to Jim at SW about issues.

I hope there won't be any problems, It's gonna take me a while to install these bad boys, I'm also saving up for a Torque Converter and was waiting to install both parts at the same time, predicting after winter. If I do find something wrong with SW hopefully Jim will honor this problem. I've looked at the product and everything seems fine, but hell... what do I know! Thanks again TAEMIAN, even if there are some problems, there are ways to fix it and was still an awesome deal. If you talk to Jim could you ask him about my situation, if you get a chance, I know you're pretty busy and gonna be a Father soon.

[Zack]

Any issues? One of the local installs here with the full system has had issues including: clamps that don't seal enough and even break, and hangers on the wrong sides of the mufflers. Oh yeah, and a slight bit of steering shaft rub.?!?!?:argh: We took a header into the local Koolcoat shop, and got another eyeful there. I really need to hear everyone's experience so I can talk to Jim at SW about issues.

No 2 sets of headers or exhaust systems are alike.

If all the above problems turn out to be true, Its probably an isolated incident.

When an exhaust system or headers are made, everything is done off a jig, and its highly unlikely the jig got messed up.

Keep us posted.

[Dragcity]

You should see what I had to do to MY steering shaft. I still need to take a little more off, but now I am afraid to. Only rubs under hard acceleration on sharp left hand turns.

[blazen71]

I ordered my headers on 9/29 and haven't recieved them yet. I've left multiple messages and emails to Jim about the status of the headers with no reply. Dissapointed with the lack of communication. I haven't been billed either. Almost makes me think the order never went in? Hopefully i can get a hold of Jim soon. This already screwed up my plans to get the exhaust on before the dyno tune. Now i'll probably get tuned with stock exhaust and put the new stuff on next year and get retuned.:mad2:

[freakstatus]

I ordered my headers on 9/29 and haven't recieved them yet. I've left multiple messages and emails to Jim about the status of the headers with no reply. Dissapointed with the lack of communication. I haven't been billed either.

Ditto here as well. I ordered on Sept 24th.

[teamrope]

I ordered the last day of the sale and was told it would take about 4 weeks.

[Taemian]

I think I mentioned somewhere that someone should have tried the $200 headers first.....

Feel free to take your own advice.

[Local Boy]

Jim, at SSW, will bill you at the time of shipping (out) to you....

Be patient...It IS well worth the wait...

ALOHA

[blazen71]

I just got an email from Jim. He confirmed my ship date. I figured they were busy or something. I can understand taking a day or two to respond but to not reply after numerous calls and emails is bad business. Oh well, he finally responded so it's ok. I just wished i would have known the ship date sooner cause my original plan to have the exhaust on before the dyno is shot. Now i'll dyno with stock exhaust this year and dyno with headers and 3" exhaust next year.

[Zack]

Push the dyno tuning back and spend the money ONCE.

[Ken]

Push the dyno tuning back and spend the money ONCE.Or get a baseline dyno for your car and you'll have an idea of how much the exhaust added.

Ken

[2DMAX]

Been a while getting back to the board and figured I should input a little information about the SW exhaust installation. I believe I was one of the early orders that went in (Sept 17/08) and I did experience some problems with the order and a lot of communication issues. Before you read the list of problems I encountered I want to say that the SW installation when done is a sweet addition and you will like it. However, there were too many issues that happened and warrants awareness on the purchaser. I purchased the Headers, /Lead Pipes/ high Flow Cats under the MAUCATdescription with the ceramic coating initially and sent my email confirmation to Jim's attention on a Thursday. I called the next day but did not hear back from him until the following Monday, ONLY after I made a call to him.. At that time I was told it would take about 2 to 3 weeks to get the order, and that the Headers would take two weeks to make and be coated. One week was needed to coat and ship back to SW.
Shortly after this information, Taemian contacted me and let me know that there was another vendor very close to us that does the Ceramic coating, and was half the price that SW was charging. I immediately called Jim, and asked him how my headers were doing and he said they would be going out to be coated on 30th of September. I advised him not to bother, as we had a vendor that would do them for half the price.
On the 29th of September I got the following email from Jim:
DAVE
YOUR HEADERS WERE SENT TO THE COATERS ON 25TH. THEY ARE COATED AND ARE BEING HEAT TREATED THIS WEEK.
I TRIED TO CHANGE THE STATUS AFTER YOU CALLED TODAY BUT THEY WENT LAST WEEK.
WE HAVENT SOLD A COATED SET SINCE THEN OR I WOULD SWITCH THE WORK ORDER FOR YOU.
I am calling a little B.S. on this one, as it took 5 days to tell me he already sent them out? Anyway, to call his bluff, I stated that since he told me previously it only took a week to get the headers back from being coated, I should be able to get them by following Tuesday, October the 2nd or 3rd and he sent me an email confirming it. At this time, I told Jim I decided to buy the MAUEX option, and how long did he think it would take to get. He told me it would take two weeks which would be the 15th or so of October. Guess what showed up on the 8th of October??? NO headers, but they sent the complete MAUEX option that was supposed to be another 10 days away! After many calls to Jim to find out what was going on, I never did get in touch with him. I found an easy way to contact SW though, all you have to do is call accounts receivable and they immediately put you in touch with Barb. She should take Jims job, as she was apologetic, instantly got me my information and helped me on the remaining order.
All this time, no real response from Jim. A fast email but nothing about the headers not being shipped. A week later, I was shipped the complete MAUEX order. Total price was around 2500.00
Now the install problems. Even though we identified steering shaft rub, and it is noted on their invoice to check, I still had major contact and rub. I emailed Jim and no answer. The install people did not want to touch the steering shaft, and I elected to see if I could remove a little material on the sharp flats of the steering shaft that would clear the header. I found too much would have to be removed and have now elected to jack the engine up and install washers under the right hand engine mount to give me clearance. Other problems are the clamps provided. They are all over the place for clamp-up. Two of them when completely tightened spun on the tubes (yes I got them on right). The majority of other when tightened completely until they touched , still were loose. We ended up tacking them in place until I can get a better clamp. Two clamps just broke when tightening. The stand-offs for the mufflers are BACKWARDS for bends, and had to be modified and welded to the clamps to be made to fit. If your Marauder is like mine, the rear pipe hanger will need to be bent a fair amount to give the ultimate position for stacks being flush or slightly protruding from the bumper. Lastly, the right hand side tubes aft of the rear axle are about 3” outboard than what it should be. This means that optimum straightness of the tail pipe will only give you about two inches clearance from the right tire, while the left has about 6 inches. I will try and get pictures this week to show what had to be done once I get it back on the lift.
Other than that, besides the ceramic coating being very thinly applied, the kit went in with all the same issues others have made about oil dipstick removal nightmare, stud issues, gaskets and lock nuts etc.
So now the conclusion. I had a brief change to make a video, (first time I ever made one) as shows in the crappy lighting and editing. It was early morning, and I could only make a short pass, as when you put your foot in it, this exhaust install is LOUD. For the 16 year-old inside us, it is rude, awesome and attention getting. For urban use, not so friendly! Check it yourself at http://www.youtube.com/v/tpD5gpngmiQ

[2DMAX]

correction to the long story above. I should have said we had to install washers on the LEFT side engine mount (viewed from the rear).

[scoutrjp]

I had the same problem getting him to respond as I ordered mine on 9/24. He did respond to an e-mail with the following:

I HAVE HEARD A FEW PEOPLE STATE THEIR HEADER WAS TIGHT.

BUT NO ONE HAS EVER SENT PICTURES OR RETURNED A SYSTEM FOR US TO CHECK.

OUR NATIONAL DEALER ACTUALLY RACES THESE HEADERS ON HIS CARS AND STATED THE CLEARANCE WAS GREAT.

SO I AM AT A LOSS.

Richard Parker wrote:

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to getting them. Some of the guys have mentioned about steering shaft rub. Have this been addressed?


I think we could send him a few pic's. He said I should get them 10/25 as coating takes a few weeks. I am looking forward to getting them and taking them to my installer as he has done a few of these SW on MM

[TAKEDOWN]

Ohhh Boy, my hopes of a problem free header install is slowly slipping into the abyss!

[Dragcity]

You can SAFELY take a lot of material off the steering shaft. I have 2,000 miles on my 'modified' shaft without any twisting.

I am not going to take any more off, I think it is time for spacers under the mounts.

[TooManyFords]

You can SAFELY take a lot of material off the steering shaft. I have 2,000 miles on my 'modified' shaft without any twisting.


Wow. Just wow. This is perhaps the WORST advice I have ever seen posted on a forum or otherwise. You NEVER want to mess with the steering linkage under ANY circumstances. Dent the header if you must but never hack on steering linkage.

wow.