Stainless Works Headers Info

[red]

The Stainless Works headers are great and I just wanted to share my experiences with them for those who are planning to participate in the group buy (so there are no surprises).

I have flanged Stainless Works (SW) headers and they will not bolt up to the stock exhaust. These are true long tube headers and they stop about a quarter way into the second catalytic converter (see pictures 1 and 2). Unfortunately, you will need to either [temporarily] delete the cats and fabricate an adapter pipe (see picture 2), build custom cat-ed midpipes (see picture 3), or buy the SW cat-ed setup (IMO, way too expensive). Concerning their setup, it appears in their picture here (http://www.stainlessworks.net/cart/images/MAUCAT.jpg) that the final pipe is now a reducer and has the correct 2-bolt flange. However, I'm hesitant to say that it will fit without problems due to previous fitment issues with their full exhaust setup for the Marauder. It also appears that you may have to shorten the flanged pipes (compare the length of their system here (http://www.stainlessworks.net/cart/images/MAUCAT.jpg) to that of my adapter pipe in picture 2).

Notice the location of the cat relative to the transmission pan bolts...
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/../showcase/files/4/2/7/5/exhaust-stock_cat.jpg

Notice the location of the header flange and the length of the temporary midpipes...
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/../showcase/files/4/2/7/5/exhaust-midpipe_adapter.jpg

My recommendation for the cats: You can buy Car Sound (aka MagnaFlow) metallic substrate, spun style cats (virtually identical to the Random Tech ones used in the SW setup) from Summit for only $100 each. See the Car Sound 59950 product page here (http://www.car-sound.com/02product/universal/599.asp) to find the specific part number for your pipe diameter. The band clamps (optional), stainless pipe, and flanges should only cost you (inlcuding fabrication) between $100-$200 dollars, making your total somewhere between $300-$400. My entire midpipes including mufflers and the purchase of the cats cost just over $600 (the price of the SW cat-ed pipes alone). It's 2.5" stainless and was custom mandrel bent by Miami Muffler.

Car Sound (MagnaFlow) 59956 center-center metallic substrate spun catalytic converters...
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/../showcase/files/4/2/7/5/exhaust-cats.jpg

Custom mandrel-bent stainless 2.5" midpipes...
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/2/7/5/exhaust-midpipes.jpg

Borla ProXS straight-through style mufflers...
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/2/7/5/exhaust-mufflers.jpg

Concerning installation, myself and others have reported fitment issues with the EGR (see the second page here (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=44451)) and in my case, this required extending the EGR tube. Also, you may have issues clearing the steering shaft. The solution has been to add steel spacers under the engine mounts. Installation costs/times can vary, but other than what I mentioned here, there should be no surprises. If you're near Florida, you might want to contact Tony R. about installation. He did a great job on mine!

Now that everything is in the clear, I wanted to say that between my exhaust setup and intake spacer, I picked up 40 HP at the wheel. So, I am quite happy with the purchase. I'm sure everyone in the group buy will be quite happy with their purchases as well! Enjoy! :)

[Local Boy]

Thanks for the write up Red!!!

That helps alot...

ALOHA

[ImpalaSlayer]

thanks for the info Red. what was your total cost?

[red]

thanks for the info Red. what was your total cost?
I think I had posted a while back that it was about $1600 or so, but apparently I forgot to add in the cost of the cats. So, grand total, including hardware costs (headers, cats, mufflers, pipes, flanges), fabrication, and installation was about $1800. A good deal in my opinion.

[ImpalaSlayer]

hey Red, i have another question. what did you do about the the o2 sensors? are they in the pipe b4 or after the cats?

[red]

hey Red, i have another question. what did you do about the the o2 sensors? are they in the pipe b4 or after the cats?
All three are before the cats. The narrow-band bungs were in the headers, and the wide-band bung is just before the cat on the driver side (a small angle off from top center).

[freakstatus]

Red, would you have any pics of how the piping connects to the stock tips?

[red]

Red, would you have any pics of how the piping connects to the stock tips?
Picture 4 shows it connecting to the stock tailpipes, which connect to the stock tips.

[freakstatus]

Oh ok, so your over the axle is still stock. Thanks!

[Dragcity]

Red, How about a pic of the: "Also, you may have issues clearing the steering shaft. The solution has been to add steel spacers under the engine mounts."

I am still having issue with my Kooks and fear removing any more material from the shaft itself.

[High-C]

I had to grind mine down... I haven't had any problems and it looks to still be structurally sound.

[ImpalaSlayer]

could you not just heat up the tube and bang a small dent in it>?

[High-C]

could you not just heat up the tube and bang a small dent in it>?

No..................

[Dragcity]

I had to grind mine down... I haven't had any problems and it looks to still be structurally sound.


Oh, dude, that's not ground down. Mine is ground down. I think I have to remove that upper collar on the shaft.

Tonight is the night I finish this project, even if it take me 'til morrow....

[O's Fan Rich]

Red, How about a pic of the: "Also, you may have issues clearing the steering shaft. The solution has been to add steel spacers under the engine mounts."

I am still having issue with my Kooks and fear removing any more material from the shaft itself.

I had no issues with clearance anywhere. No spacers, no grinding.

[ImpalaSlayer]

why not???

[O's Fan Rich]

why not???

Is this a question for Me?

[ImpalaSlayer]

no Rich, High-c

[O's Fan Rich]

no Rich, High-c

Oh... I see where it is....
That would be a bad idea. You're talking stainless here, not regular metal. Then compound that with ceramic coatings and it's a BIG no-no.
I think the clearance issues were with older designs. The newer headers, both Kooks and SW's fit mush better than the originals.

[High-C]

no Rich, High-c

These headers are "harder" than you think. Mine are coated as well and it's just not a viable option. It may be possible, but the risk of damaging the header is not worth the risk in my opinion... It would be akin to spending a dollar to save a dime...

[Dragcity]

The Funny thing is I think I got a REALLY old set from Kooks. I ordered them in March and didn't get them until the end of May. When I got them they were full of debris and oil. The flange was not cut for the oil dip tube and the clearance issue had obviously not been implemented.

I thought I was waiting for mine to be made, guess not????

I am even less happy now...

[ImpalaSlayer]

ahh didnt think they were coated. i had to do it with the headers on my truck but they wernt coated. it worked fine btw

[Local Boy]

Hey Joe....

Did you shim the motor?

Can you put up a pic...of the contact spot?

I'm sure you can figure it out, my friend...

ALOHA

[Local Boy]

Hey...I have a thought....

I'm thinking I could have them cut the headers shorter, before welding the flange to it..

Seems as though the headers has a reduced section meant to slide into the SSW cats. Perhaps, I can have them cut that shorter, which will allow me to move the first set of cats. more foward, and have more space behind...

What's your thoughts?

ALOHA

[High-C]

Hey Joe....

Did you shim the motor?

Can you put up a pic...of the contact spot?

I'm sure you can figure it out, my friend...

ALOHA

LB, Did you see the picture that I attached to post #11? That will give you an idea of what I was dealing with. I took off an 1/8 - 1/16 of an inch and it's all good now... I don't think I have any pics of the shaft, post grinding, but I can get some if need be.

- Chris

[Local Boy]

Yes, I did see it...Thanks...

But, sounded like Joe took off, alot more material, from the steering shaft already...

I think his "intrusion" of the headers into the steering shaft area is more pronounced...

ALOHA

[red]

I'm thinking I could have them cut the headers shorter, before welding the flange to it..
I would be careful with modifications that could effect the design, especially if your intending to do any diameter reduction or other potential pressure change abut to the collector. Well-designed headers (presumably the SW ones) are tuned with specific intention and collector size/design is an important parameter.


Seems as though the headers has a reduced section meant to slide into the SSW cats. Perhaps, I can have them cut that shorter, which will allow me to move the first set of cats. more foward, and have more space behind...

The Stainless Works (SW) cats are made by Random Tech and are designed to be slip fitted, as noted. Why are you mentioning "first set of cats"? There are only two total and two are all that are required, especially with metallic substrates (quicker light off and more catalyst).

[red]

Red, How about a pic of the: "Also, you may have issues clearing the steering shaft. The solution has been to add steel spacers under the engine mounts."

I am still having issue with my Kooks and fear removing any more material from the shaft itself.
Sorry, I don't happen to have any pictures. We essentially shimmed the engine mounts, lifting it and creating clearance between the primary tube and steering shaft.


Oh, dude, that's not ground down. Mine is ground down.
That's scary. :(

[Local Boy]

Red, I intend to go with all four cats in my set up...

I don't want it to be loud...just flow better...

That's why I speculated about shortening the collector end (2 inches off the end)...to help give more space to squeeze 4 cats and a H-pipe in there...

ALOHA

[justbob]

nice pipes....

[red]

nice pipes....
Thanks! :cool:

[red]

I intend to go with all four cats in my set up...

I don't want it to be loud...just flow better...

That's why I speculated about shortening the collector end (2 inches off the end)...to help give more space to squeeze 4 cats and a H-pipe in there...
The front cats are to help decrease the light off time of the primary converters. You will be hindering flow if you use four or attempt to use your stock converters (they're quite restrictive due to construction and size). A single set of metallic substrate cats will provide minimal flow restriction, give you an equivalent amount of catalyst, and can reach operating temperatures more quickly than ceramics. As far as noise, headers are loud and the larger the pipes, the louder your exhaust will be. If you're looking to quite up the system, I'd suggest using resonators or going with a three muffler setup, where the third muffler is a high-flow two-inlet, two-outlet in place of a crossover tube. You may also want to keep resonated tips. Also, consider the style of muffler (e.g., chambered, packed, turbo, straight-through, etc.) as they will have different sound attributes.

[Local Boy]

That's an interesting suggestion..."Three mufflers"...and mount it in place of the cross-over tube...

I think I like that idea...

Particularly cause I was going with four cats. to specifically address noise...

Thanks Red...

ALOHA

[Dragcity]

Aloha,

I stayed with the OEM Mufflers and went with the high flow cats (one on each side). I just installed flange gaskets at the muffler last night.

I'll tell you Randy, the car sounds almost EXACTLY the way it did before my header install. Only when I really get on it, can I hear a difference. I am driving 180 miles per day this week, and there is no more cabin niose than when I was stock, 75 MPH at 2,500 RMP.

There is sa distinct difference in both power and noise when I stomp it. I have an X-pipe, one cat on each side into the oem muffler and tailpipe assy.

As for my steering shaft, there is a lot of material there for the limited torque applied, so I haven't met a dangerous level of removal .... Yet. (in my opinion) I think I can remove a bit more off the collar to give me the appropriate clearance. I took it down a bit more last night, so the only contact I get is slightly upon acceleration into left turns. The torque of the engine combined with the bend in the steeering shaft are offering minimal contact right now. One more bit of grinding, polishing and painting should finish it off. I'll post a pic tonight or tomorrow.

[Local Boy]

That's cool Joe...

Thanks...for the info....that's what I'm shooting for...

My OEM's are gone...Flowmaster 50's...

I'll go with 2 Cat's....and see how it sounds...

Good job on the install...Joe!

ALOHA

[Dragcity]

Thanks Bruddah.

Flowmasters are going to make all the difference, not the cats. I would encourage you to loose the OEM cats. Like 'Red' said, they are very restrictive compared to the high flows out there. Dennis R. recommended I stay with the OEM and he was right. My neighbors would hate me (more) if I had Flowmasters, or anything louder than what I 've got.

My system utilizes all four O2 sensors, as the Kooks came with O2 bungs in each header and each side of the x-pipe past the cats. So, I connected them all, even though the rears are turned off via the tune. (So I am told)

Good Luck

[MCAT]

If you run high flow cats like "Random Technology" cats( witch I believe
are the one's "Stainless Works" sell's with there header kit#Maucat)
they flow the same as a straight pc. of pipe, you may lose about 1/2 hp but you should gain about 3/4 foot lbs. of torque with their cat verses a straight pipe.

[Local Boy]

That's very good info. fellas...

I too, intend to run with all 4 O'2 sensors...Joe...Mine are functional...

I like having all the monitoring systems functional...

I will be replacing the cats...just not with the Random Tech. ones...

You guys got me PUMPED on getting these Bad Boys...

ALOHA

[Dragcity]

You're gonna' love them. !

Installing yourself?

[freakstatus]

Anyone start their cars with headers only? Wonder what that would sound like?

[STLR FN]

Anyone start their cars with headers only? Wonder what that would sound like?
Ask and ye shall receive:

Rich's Open Headers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpihIXxKuUc)

[Local Boy]

Yeah, Joe...

Going to install myself...and have a shop connect the pipes...

Going to see if I can get away with driving it, with open headers, to the shop @ 3 miles away...

We'll see...

ALOHA

[TAKEDOWN]

Yeah, Joe...

Going to install myself...and have a shop connect the pipes...

Going to see if I can get away with driving it, with open headers, to the shop @ 3 miles away...

We'll see...

ALOHA

3 miles! Jeeezzzz Local Boy... imagine all those Samoans you're gonna wake up!

[Dragcity]

I had my car up on blocks for a week. I really tookl my time and did a lot of cleanup and maintanance.
I would say I spent about 7 hours on removal of old and install of new on just the headers. Yours will likely be easier. No rust and rot from salt covered winter roads. SW are more "user friendly"

Take your time and don't rush anything.

My hands are finally healing, the bleeding stopped two days after I was done....

[Loco1234]

I have installed the entire SW 3" exhaust system.
I still haven't gotten to start the car up yet since the motor has been out.
The install was long and hard but much easier than it could have been.
I used a buddies lift and got the entire exhaust system perfectly straight and tucked up tight to the car very well.
my only prob was air gun started to strip out the slip fit connector's....
so start from the front and tighten everything to the back.
try not to keep tightening and loosening over and over for minor adjustments....
all has fit well...
the headers are real close to the steering shaft but I think it will work...

P.s. after the entire exhaust install I had to remove the engine again.
The engine can be pulled by simply unbolting (ARP stage 8 w/ lockers used) the headers and loosening them at the cat connection. This will allow the headers to be turn outward towards the frame rails. the motot can then be lift striaght out of car. There was no need to remove the SW exhaust or SW headers at all...
I have since reinstalled the motor and was able to slowly drop the motor in and lift the headers up and over the motor mounts so they could be rebolt to the engine without need of removal....
a very good thing to know...

[red]

I have installed the entire SW 3" exhaust system.
I still haven't gotten to start the car up yet since the motor has been out.
The install was long and hard but much easier than it could have been.
I used a buddies lift and got the entire exhaust system perfectly straight and tucked up tight to the car very well.
Glad to hear that their full exhaust fit nicely for you. Previous threads had indicated otherwise; see here (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35243). Hopefully (and apparently) they have resolved these issues.