Check your VIN

[james_hart6]

As ya'll know, my MM has been on the block and I've been negotiating with Jay from Yonkers about the car - our schedules have not been able to mesh.

On Friday Jay and a buddy flew in to Detroit to check out the MM and, hopefully, drive it home. Jay even brought CD's to crank up on the ride back.

It looked as if the deal were done until Jay checked the VIN stickers on the fenders, doors, and trunk.

They don't match the VIN number of the car. At least, the right side fender, doors, and trunk deck don't - the left side does.

Off the the selling dealer we went - it's a one owner car and I ain't been doin' no parts swappin'.

After some amount of round around (which Jay will probably detail) the dealer located the "missing" parts to my MM - on a police interceptor in Utah!

Apparently someone on the production line got the stickers in the wrong order, and the numbers were swapped.

It occurs to me that it may have been just these two vehicles. Dealer, Jay, and Jerry (Jay's buddy, who has forgotten more about cars than I'll ever know) all say that they've never heard of such a thing. Maybe but maybe not - these might not be the only cars; suppose the fella working the left side of the line started off the day wrong and stayed wrong all day long?????

Build was 5/02.

Jay couldn't accept the deal (for which I don't blame him a bit!) because the NY authorities are much more tuned to mismatched VIN stickers than here in Detroit. The dealer wasn't willing to certify a letter that the car was legit, he prefers to let Mercury handle it (again, for which I don't blame him a bit, except since he's the selling dealer he's already pretty much involved) and Mercury won't have anything concrete before Tuesday. Jay had to get back to NY, so the deal was DOA.

Lessons learned - check the visibible stickers on the fenders (under the hood, quite visible), doors and trunk - making sure numbers match VIN (they won't match the whole VIN, but the numbers will be the last digits in the VIN sequence).

If Jay and I had communicated better I could have checked the numbers before he flew in, delayed the deal until Mercury solves the issue, and saved Jay a wasted trip and a bunch of $$$ on airline tickets. It just never occured to Jay to ask, since the VIN numbers are never wrong out of the factory. Except when they are. It never occured to me to look - I supplied Jay with the VIN for him to check out before he came, and figured that was all we need do, since the car was new when I bought it.

I felt terrible for Jay - who laughed it off, apparently Jay and Jerry had been on more adventures on road trips before than they could relate (but I know he can't be laughing about the air fare!).

So the sale of the car will be on hold until Mercury comes up with something (like new stickers????); I don't want someone else to go through this.

Jay had a good point, too - if I had sold the car in Detroit most likely no one would have thought to check the numbers. In ten years, assuming these things appreciate in value, the owner might have a difficult time proving the provenance of the car!

All in all, a horrible day. Jay and Jerry went back to a hotel to wait for their morning flight, I went home and put on Sinatra and opened the Scotch.

I hope all of your VIN's match!

Jim

[DetGeno]

Holy ZHIT! I AM CHECKING MY NOW!!!

[SouLRioT]

Dam, sorry the deals on hold, i'll have to go check mine now.

[jgc61sr2002]

James I hope the deal works out. Good luck with FMC.:(

[sailsmen]

You will be lucky to get a letter from Mercury, IMHO they will not issue new stickers with out first having the stickers returned from the car that has your parts.

I beleive Roy Pita? can run an oasis and see if perhaps your fenders were replaced due to damage.

There is no reason why the dealer cannot issue a letter verifying they were the original selling dealer and that the car was sold to you new.

[RCSignals]

Maybe someone who works at Ford will confirm this, but I don't think those stickers have anything to do with legality of VIN ID on a car, they are only for assembly, and are related to painting.
Never-the-less, it has caused a lost sale for a first owner, and Ford should respond

[martyo]

With my car on a trailer half a country away, I can't even check! Now you Texas boys better not get any bright ideas with respect to my car!!

Kepp us posted and let us know if there is anything that we can do.

[JCMM]

Hmm. Stickers...

Mine are all blank, like the numbers were removed. Seems that the warranty inservice date is 9/27/02, but the car was never sold until 7/16/03, then back on the lot a month later. I bought it used in September 03 with only 3700mi. Lost a year on the warranty, but I'll rack up the miles in 24 mo.

This may have been a demo car? Any ideas out there?

[jaywish]

Hi JCMM,

I can't say I've ever seen them blank. I just checked an 89 Lincoln for a friend last weekend and the numbers were still fine.

They are light when new and I have to use my glasses but they should be there.

Look close with a good oblique or difuse light source.

Jay

[Bigdogjim]

Originally posted by JCMM
Hmm. Stickers...

Mine are all blank, like the numbers were removed. Seems that the warranty inservice date is 9/27/02, but the car was never sold until 7/16/03, then back on the lot a month later. I bought it used in September 03 with only 3700mi. Lost a year on the warranty, but I'll rack up the miles in 24 mo.

This may have been a demo car? Any ideas out there?

What dealer did you buy from?

Lawrence L&M has sold two demo Marauders, one blue and one black.

I work in Ewing Twp. 4-12 PM 609.771.9542

Jim K.

[Geo]

I hope everything get resolved.

You (or the new owner) should monitor the status of that Utah Interceptor. That unit would make a great parts car for your Marauder. They're kind of like brothers.

[rumble]

James,
2 questions. One, how may places should we have those stickers, and two, what kind of Scotch?

[SILVERMARAUDER]

Mine on my MM were halfway pealed off on the front and rear bumpers but i have corrected that!

[Marauderman]

Dang! I got all new bumbers including trunk and hood all around when my car was repaired from March wreck...hummmmm...best go check --probably won't find anything since they were single parts ordered from factory for repairs.....the only vin remaining is under the front glass drivers side that I know of---gotta go look...

[TAF]

Originally posted by marauderman
Dang! I got all new bumbers including trunk and hood all around when my car was repaired from March wreck...hummmmm...best go check --probably won't find anything since they were single parts ordered from factory for repairs.....the only vin remaining is under the front glass drivers side that I know of---gotta go look...

I'm in the same boat, Tom...going to lose my #s on several parts of a car that Steve Babcock says was the first full day of production Monday, 6/02/02:(

[Marauderman]

Originally posted by TAF
I'm in the same boat, Tom...going to lose my #s on several parts of a car that Steve Babcock says was the first full day of production Monday, 6/02/02:(

Maybe there is still time to hollar at the shop --tell'um to retreve
them if possible--I didn't even think of it till reading these post----
.Tom

[TAF]

It's about the 3rd thing I thought of when I stopped spinning...Just behind how much I love all 3 of my girls & I need to change my underwear...

Swapping VINs on parts is illegal (and they've made it nearly impossible to do)...save the call...it's "protection" for future buyers.

[Marauderman]

Originally posted by TAF
...save the call...it's "protection" for future buyers.

WOW!! You read minds well---how'd you know?!!!

[TAF]

Originally posted by marauderman
WOW!! You read minds well---how'd you know?!!!

Martyo is teaching me how to think like an attorney...

In other words...

I'm "dumbing-down":lol:

[Marauderman]

SO....to keep this on-track---what were saying here is once a vin part is replaced--there goes the vin # as well....correct..and not to be replaced....!!!

[TAF]

Originally posted by marauderman
SO....to keep this on-track---what were saying here is once a vin part is replaced--there goes the vin # as well....correct..and not to be replaced....!!!

No...the VIN for the car always stays the same. It is just (usually) an indication that the car has been hit, and had parts replaced.

The reason for the start of this thread...as nice as these two might have been to each other...jaywish, still can not be 100% sure that the car had never been hit and had replacement parts.
However, they dug into the facts and found that there was a production line srew-up. Frankly, I'd think Ford has some explaining to do to James Hart as to why they sold him a car that may not be able to be re-sold. Just .02 from me.

[Marauderman]

What I meant was and should have said is- Where a vin # is placed /stamped or located on the car --if this piece is replaced from say a wreck--is the vin# or replicia placed back as well?

[03SILVERSTREAK]

The VIN# sticker that most of you are refering too is placed on the doors,fenders and hoods by the car maker to deter auto thief and illegal parts sales that goe's on in parts of the country . the law enforcement community stressed and compelled auto makers to place these numbers on the removeable body parts so when the auto crime units in your local municipalites check junk yards ,body shops and auto garages they check those numbers on a computer data base to see if they have a Hit (stolen) on the parts.Its unfortunate that those stickers are so cheaply made that in time the numbers fade off . my 0.2cents info...

[vegasmarauder]

Seems as I remember that the replacement parts have tags similar to the factory VIN tags, just with different numbers. These numbers should be on the repair invoice when the car is returned from the body shop. The different numbers are to alert law enforcement that these are new parts and to document that they belong on the repaired car. The original idea was that if a part with a different VIN tag was used to fix a wreck and the parts came from a legitimate source, the VIN off the wrecking yard parts would be on the repair invoice. This would prevent stolen used parts from ending up on another car. Unfortunately, most body shops just painted over or removed the VIN tags off the wrecking yard or new parts. This has pretty much rendered this anti theft feature moot. 10 years ago, I was in charge of our Auto Theft detail and we would impound cars with stolen parts on them and pull the parts (made a few body shops do some "splainin"too). Lately, nothing has tags anymore so it has become a bit of a free-for-all.

[03SILVERSTREAK]

Very very true . there such an epidemic of this going on here in NY that its hard to keep up with records .

[james_hart6]

As listed in the original post, when I tried to sell my MM 300a to a .net member we discovered different VIN numbers on fenders, doors, and trunk.

The selling dealer was "looking into it". This has been going on since last summer. Details are in the original post above.

Three weeks ago or so I took the car in for it's 9,000 mile oil change (what can I say? Car just didn't get driven that much, 9,000 miles in 19 or so months!) and they took photos of all of the VIN stickers - apparently there's 12 of 'em, but I could be wrong in that. They faxed the photos to Mercury.

Last night they finally called me - and wanted me to bring the car in "so that the Mercury engineers could have a look at it".

Geez.

Fortunately I had the perfect response:

"You'll have to send the engineers to the car. It's at Les Stanford Chevrolet in Dearborn. I just traded the M.M. in on a new 'vette".

Dead silence from the end of the phone, followed by "Ummm, guess we're a day late and a dollar short on this one. Goodbye".

Literally true - they called me at 5 p.m. and I had taken delivery of the new Corvette around 4.

So the M.M. is gone (I've posted the shop manuals for sale in the appropriate forum and will see if I have anything else that anyone on the .net might want) and I'm off into Chevy land.

Oh - and the numbers on the Corvette match :up:

The MM was a fun car and I always got great looks when I had it on the road (especially when the K40 antenna was up!) but for me it was time to stop dinkin' around with Mercury and move on.

Thanks for all of the support I've gotten from members here - Logan has done Yoeman's work! I'll hang around as a lurking guest, but probably won't be able to contribute much on the MM.

Regards,


Jim

[TAF]

James,


I was just thinkin about your story the other day. Congrats on the 'Vette. :up:

So...the REAL question is...does the Chevy dealer know you have the first Panther...uh..."hybrid"?

[martyo]

I was just thinkin about your story the other day.

Gee Todd you sure seem to have a lot of time on your hands.

[james_hart6]

James,


I was just thinkin about your story the other day. Congrats on the 'Vette. :up:

So...the REAL question is...does the Chevy dealer know you have the first Panther...uh..."hybrid"?

Ummm...not so much. In Michigan it's not so much of an issue as it apparently is in New York. And the only things I certified was that it hasn't been in a wreck, and that the mileage was correct on the odometer.

Stanford Chevy is right next door to a Merc dealer, so I imagine they wheeled it next door and sold it to them.

It amazes me that after this length of time Mercury wanted me to bring it in yet again for the engineers to look at. What's to look at? The @#$ numbers are wrong!

But it was a heckuva lotta fun to drive, esp. punching the throttle at about 60 and feeling the push in the back.

Jim

[SouLRioT]

well good luck with the new ride.