Lowing the car...Just a hair...

[Vortech347]

I would like to lower my MM but the #1 most important thing is ride quality. I know bringing the back down is as easy as moving the little sensor over. How about the fronts?

[BAD MERC]

I cut one top coil and got 1.25" drop and the ride is still great - more responsive and a little jouncy on big bumps - which we slow down for anyway, right? Ask for pics if you want after shots to compare to yours.

[magindat]

Big 10-4 on the cut fronts! Once full coil and Monroes heavy duty shocks. The external soft jounce bumper that comes with the new shock helps. Ride quality is more feedback-ish, but still luxury.

[justbob]

One coil + about one full inch on mine. Love it.

[ImpalaSlayer]

cut a coil and call it a day

[gmtech]

+1 on 1 cut coil..ride is still great and the front really stays flat around corners, mine have been cut now for about 11k miles. the springs now have 70k on them and im using the stock shocks, still rides great:D

[burt ragio]

The least expensive way to lower your ride and improve handleing cut a full coil add Addco sway bars and rear upper and lower control arms. Many who have cut a full coil say a stiffer shock help dampen rebound. Your other choice is the Naake Q1s S/A or D/A. That was my choice since the oem shocks /coil overs were shot. I went with single adjust set at #6. I then re aimed the headlights and had the front aliened with Carfixer specs. I'am very happy with the results. I now wonder what difference the watts link would make ?

[O's Fan Rich]

I got a video some where of some guy of Polish origin cutting springs........ now where did I leave that at?

[fastblackmerc]

The least expensive way to lower your ride and improve handleing cut a full coil add Addco sway bars and rear upper and lower control arms. Many who have cut a full coil say a stiffer shock help dampen rebound. Your other choice is the Naake Q1s S/A or D/A. That was my choice since the oem shocks /coil overs were shot. I went with single adjust set at #6. I then re aimed the headlights and had the front aliened with Carfixer specs. I'am very happy with the results. I now wonder what difference the watts link would make ?

I have the frt & rear Addco's, upper & lower Metco control arms and Metco Watts link. I'm sure the Watts link makes a difference, just nothing I could feel.

[Blk Mamba]

The watts link keeps the rear end centered under the car, if you've lowered the car you have changed this. Not by any great amount, but changed none the less.

[CRUZTAKER]

The watts link keeps the rear end centered under the car, if you've lowered the car you have changed this. Not by any great amount, but changed none the less.

These two methods are tried and true.
Trust us...those of whom have done it.

[Blk Mamba]

I'm not going to start an argument over basic geometry, what I stated is a fact.

[TooManyFords]

I'm not going to start an argument over basic geometry, what I stated is a fact.

Ok, then tell me how you would adjust the watts link. Educate me.

I just switched from watts to pan hard, and I believe you might be confusing the two. With the pan hard bar, it needs to be either lengthened or shortened to get the whole axle to sit square. The watts does this automatically by using equal length bars on a central pivot mounted to the differential. There are no adjustments.

Just trying to help.

John

[CRUZTAKER]

I'm not going to start an argument over basic geometry, what I stated is a fact.


I wasn't trying to disparage you, just redirect you from the inevitable.:P

[Blk Mamba]

Ok, then tell me how you would adjust the watts link. Educate me.

I just switched from watts to pan hard, and I believe you might be confusing the two. With the pan hard bar, it needs to be either lengthened or shortened to get the whole axle to sit square. The watts does this automatically by using equal length bars on a central pivot mounted to the differential. There are no adjustments.

Just trying to help.

John


I'm sorry you miss-understood what I ment, the watts link is not adjustable, and is designed to center the body on the rear end at a specific ride height, any other position than this and the body is not centered over the rear end as designed.

[TooManyFords]

I'm pretty sure I understand your position, but you are wrong and have that confused with a pan hard bar. The watts link *always* keeps the axle centered regardless of ride height. The pan hard bar needs to be adjusted.

[Blk Mamba]

I said I wasn't going to argue, it's basic geometry. One end of the watts link is tied off to the frame, the other to the rear end. the further higher, or lower the rear end goes, the further it travels toward the side it's tied to. The watts link is an arc, radius, laws of physics prohibit the rear end from remaining centered, throughout the travel of it's arc.

[Vortech347]

umm you're talking about a panhard bar... The Watts link will be fine.

Thank you others for your input! I really appricate it.

[rayjay]

Do cut springs shorten the life of the front dampers?

[magindat]

The watts link keeps the rear end centered under the car, if you've lowered the car you have changed this. Not by any great amount, but changed none the less.

Not with a watts link. That's the whole point of a watts link vs panhard rod. Watts stays centered regardless of height or travel. Panhard forces axle to side away from body connect point when lowering.

[magindat]

I said I wasn't going to argue, it's basic geometry. One end of the watts link is tied off to the frame, the other to the rear end. the further higher, or lower the rear end goes, the further it travels toward the side it's tied to. The watts link is an arc, radius, laws of physics prohibit the rear end from remaining centered, throughout the travel of it's arc.

The watts link is tied off at BOTH sides of the frame. The rods stay fixed length. The ONLY reason they are arced in our cars is clearance and perhaps a bit of strength for the stamped steel. Each fixed rod has the other end mounted to either side of a rotating arm. The center of the rotating arm is centered in the frame and pivots as as the car moves up and down over the axle, keeping it's center. The length differences are taken up by both arms (one above and one below the pivot arm) equally, thus keeping the axle centered regardless of the height relationship between the pivot (on the axle) anf the frame/body.

Seriously, please understand. You are indeed applying the notion of a panhard rod to a watts link.

[magindat]

I have the frt & rear Addco's, upper & lower Metco control arms and Metco Watts link. I'm sure the Watts link makes a difference, just nothing I could feel.

There is so little stress on the links of this system, I can't possibly see any gains in making them stronger than they are in stock form. Control arms - for sure. Watts link arms? I just can't justify the expenditure based on what I know.

I'm glad you like them! They ARE pretty!

[magindat]

I'm not going to start an argument over basic geometry, what I stated is a fact.

Carefull.... :argue:

[Blk Mamba]

My bad our cars have a panhard bar,

The advantage of the Panhard rod is its simplicity. Its major disadvantage is that the axle must necessarily move in an arc relative to the body, with the radius equal to the length of the Panhard rod. If the rod is too short, there will be excessive sideways movement between the axle and the body at the ends of the spring travel; therefore the Panhard rod is less desirable on smaller cars than larger. A suspension design that is similar but dramatically reduces the sideways component of the axle's vertical travel is the Watt's linkage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt%27s_linkage).

[magindat]

My bad our cars have a panhard bar,

The advantage of the Panhard rod is its simplicity. Its major disadvantage is that the axle must necessarily move in an arc relative to the body, with the radius equal to the length of the Panhard rod. If the rod is too short, there will be excessive sideways movement between the axle and the body at the ends of the spring travel; therefore the Panhard rod is less desirable on smaller cars than larger. A suspension design that is similar but dramatically reduces the sideways component of the axle's vertical travel is the Watt's linkage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt%27s_linkage).

Uh, no. They have watts links. take another look...

[TooManyFords]

trash,

here is what we have:

http://www.cvmusclecars.com/picture.php?albumid=7&pictureid=243

This is the watts link and it is just hanging there getting ready to be replaced with a pan hard bar.

This is a pan hard bar:

http://www.cvmusclecars.com/picture.php?albumid=7&pictureid=269

I used the old watts link connector on the passenger side to anchor the pan hard bar.

Note: this is also a Ford 9-inch to replace the factory 8.8 diff...

[Blk Mamba]

I don't see this,


Jump to: navigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt%27s_linkage#column-one), search (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt%27s_linkage#searchInput)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Watts_linkage.gif/180px-Watts_linkage.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Watts_linkage.gif) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Watts_linkage.gif)
Animated depiction of Watt’s linkage


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Mergefrom.svg/50px-Mergefrom.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mergefrom.svg)
It has been suggested that Parallel motion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_motion) be merged (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Merging_and_moving_p ages) into this article or section. (Discuss (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Watt%27s_linkage#Merge_pr oposal)) Watt's linkage (also known as the parallel linkage) is a type of mechanical linkage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_linkage) invented by James Watt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Watt) (19 January (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_19) 1736 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1736) – 25 August (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_25) 1819 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1819)) to constrain the movement of a steam engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_engine) piston (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piston) in a straight line.
The idea of its genesis using links is contained in a letter he wrote to Matthew Boulton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Boulton) in June 1784.
I have got a glimpse of a method of causing a piston rod to move up and down perpendicularly by only fixing it to a piece of iron upon the beam, without chains or perpendicular guides [...] and one of the most ingenious simple pieces of mechanics I have invented. This linkage does not generate a true straight line motion, and indeed Watt did not claim it did so. In a letter to Boulton on 11th September 1784 he describes the linkage as follows.
The convexities of the arches, lying in contrary directions, there is a certain point in the connecting-lever, which has very little sensible variation from a straight line. And as you can see, and read this also does move sideways, although it is minute, it does allow sideways movement.

[magindat]

Most of it is above the axle. You probly can only see the DS link from lying on the ground. The pivot link is attached to the top of the pumpkin and the PS link goes up high. It looks just like the motion illustration, though.

[Blk Mamba]

Why would you want to change to a panhard bar? And yes now I do see the other bar coming from the rear end to the frame, my bad, but they do both allow sideways movement through their up, and down travel.

[magindat]

Why would you want to change to a panhard bar? And yes now I do see the other bar coming from the rear end to the frame, my bad, but they do both allow sideways movement through their up, and down travel.

The sideways movement is only at extremes and our suspension travel does not approach those extremes, so for all intents and purposes, it's straight.

If I had to guess, I'd say John went panhard for simplicity, adjustment and roll center to help counter torque on launch.

[Blk Mamba]

And why is it tied off to the passenger side? I see your air bag sensor, was it difficult to relocate.

[magindat]

And why is it tied off to the passenger side? I see your air bag sensor, was it difficult to relocate.

If I remember right, tied off to PS puts the bar in compression upon torque rather than extension. Helps keep the DS tire from hopping due to axle torquing against the driveshaft.

[Vortech347]

^^^ You got it.

[TooManyFords]

Why would you want to change to a panhard bar? And yes now I do see the other bar coming from the rear end to the frame, my bad, but they do both allow sideways movement through their up, and down travel.

Because the the Ford 9-inch was not designed to support it. It was far easier switching to a pan hard bar and it weighs a lot less. Less weight is more speed (or pizza, depending on how you look at it)

:D

[TooManyFords]

If I remember right, tied off to PS puts the bar in compression upon torque rather than extension. Helps keep the DS tire from hopping due to axle torquing against the driveshaft.

Nope, a pan hard bar does nothing to hold the diff or either side of the axle down. It has as much stress as the original watts bars did, which is only comes into play when cornering. Going straight and there is virtually no load on either end of the bar. Skidding sideways and you put the full weight of the rear of the car on the joints.

Cliff notes: skid pan hard, drag race easy.

[TooManyFords]

And why is it tied off to the passenger side? I see your air bag sensor, was it difficult to relocate.

We used the passenger side so that we could be close to the ride height sensor where it attaches to the differential. The ideal location for the panhard is from one frame point to the opposite wheel, parallel to the axle when it is at ride height. I have the shocks set pretty stiff so they limit most of the active movement of the axle allowing a shorter pan hard bar. If this was a daily driver, I would have gotten a much longer bar to reach over to the driver 4-link on the axle and been as close to parallel to the axle itself.

It is always an option if I see rubbing on the tires from too much suspension travel.