Steering Problem

[Wires]

Sorry to start an new thread, but I'm too ignorant to figure out what has happened and I need some help.

My wife works farther from home than I do, so she drives me to work and picks me up in the evening. Last night, as we were driving home, we were going straight down the road, but the steering wheel was turned about 30 degrees to the right.

This alarmed me, because the last time I drove the car, it was straight. I had it aligned about two months ago, using carfixer's settings, and everything was fine.

It wasn't a slow drift, it was more like it happened overnight.

Being a former General Motors owner, I thought that the alignment shop must have left the tie rod clamps (rod and sleeve type) loose and it drifted. However, I looked under the MM last night, and saw that this wasn't the case.

Nothing was bent, nothing looked broken I couldn't see anything wrong.

My only guess, and this is a sophisticated, wild-a guess, is the sector gear has gone bad.

Has this happened to anyone else? Does anyone have any idea what the heck has happened?

[BODYMAN]

If the sector shft or steering box were bad you would know it also the air bag light would probably come on from the wire behind steering wheel for srs gets ripped thats what happens when you tear up a steering box and the steering wheel would be almost all the way around one turn or completely upside down. Dont want to offend anyone here are you sure no one hit something on the raod with the car? no offense. how do the wheels look like they are sitting (straight or in at top? in at bottom? back further on one side? Those are things to look at 1st. The problem with self diag on steering alignment problems is the width of a dime can make the alignment horrible. ck those things 1st. You say it is pulling real bad to one side? PM me I can probably help you or get you in the right direction.

Todd :beatnik:

[Wires]

No offense taken - in fact, that's the first thing I asked my wife.

She swears that she didn't hit anything, and nothing is bent, broken, or odd looking. I checked the air pressure in all the tires, all were good. Both wheels point straight ahead, and they look straight up and down.

There are wrench marks on the tie rods, but they are wrench marks, not like something was hit.

It doesn't pull to either side, but the steering feels "strange" to me. (I know that doesn't help much.) I'll try to describe it - imaging a pringles can filled with mercury tied to the steering mechanism. When I move the wheel. it seems like I'm moving a heavy but movable lump that sloshes over.

[larryo340]

If the sector shft or steering box were bad you would know it also the air bag light would probably come on from the wire behind steering wheel for srs gets ripped thats what happens when you tear up a steering box and the steering wheel would be almost all the way around one turn or completely upside down.

Todd :beatnik:

:confused: Now that's something I've have never heard of or seen in 19 years in dealer service. The whole point of a clockspring is to allow the steering wheel to turn extreme left or right and still mantain the electrical circuits to the wheel controls.

The only time I have seen the ribbon cable broken is if someone turns the steering wheel too much when the column is disconnected from the box or rac, and if extreme high mileage.
Just my
http://bw4u.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/2-cents.jpg


oh yeah,,
maybe it's something in the rac, like a valve sticking from the cold ???

[BODYMAN]

Wires it sounds like either a bad steering rack or bad tie rod end I was not thinking before duh my bad we do not have a steering box like the old C/v g/m they had the all steering box set up. they changed ours to a steering rack I would Think from what you are saying it is either a inner or outer bad tie rod end or something inside the steering rack. I just a had a 07 Stang in the shop last week something just did not feel right in the steering and veh aligned good. Of course you cant diassemble a rack or you wont get the core charge back $ back. But we put a new rack in it and it felt great, there was obviously some teeth inside the rack broken or missing but this one had been in a collision. I hope this helps.

Todd

[BODYMAN]

Ford Hd trucks EVERY TIME THE BOX GETS TORE UP THE CLOCKSPRING RIPS I SEE THIS VERY OFTEN. IF THE TRUCK NEEDS A STEERING BOX WE JUST FIGURED YEP ITS GONNA NEED A CLOCKSPRING ALSO. AND YES HIGH MILEAGE THE C/S GO OUT ALL THE TIME. YOU WORK AT A FORD DEALER ALSO. MY EXPERIENCE IS FROM B-S NOT SERVICE DEPT THE WIRE ON C/S HAS ITS LIMITS LIKE EVRYTHING ELSE






:confused: Now that's something I've have never heard of or seen in 19 years in dealer service. The whole point of a clockspring is to allow the steering wheel to turn extreme left or right and still mantain the electrical circuits to the wheel controls.

The only time I have seen the ribbon cable broken is if someone turns the steering wheel too much when the column is disconnected from the box or rac, and if extreme high mileage.
Just my
http://bw4u.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/2-cents.jpg


oh yeah,,
maybe it's something in the rac, like a valve sticking from the cold ???

[Wires]

I've done some more thinking about this now that I've calmed down.

If the steering wheel is 1.5 turns lock-to-lock, (I can't find this info anywhere)
Then that's 720 degrees of steering wheel travel for about 40 degrees of wheel travel. So, for the steering wheel to be off by 20 degrees, that's only around 1 degree at the tire wheels. (great math whiz that I am)

I know my numbers are rough, but I'm not going to see 0-4 degrees of wheel movement. So, I suppose I was wrong to think I'd be looking for a BIG change in the steering components.

Looks like the sane thing to do is to take it to an alignments shop and see what happened.

My only concern is, if the previous shop left something loose, I don't want to take it back to them. They are supposedly the best alignment shop in town, and I can't prove I didn't hit a curb or something.

I thank everyone for their help.

[Zack]

Sounds like one of the following:
Slipped belt in the tire
Alignment bolt loosened up

[BODYMAN]

Wires, The 1st thing you said is correct if they did leave something loose they will cover there tracks. But how long since the alignment was done?
Make sure you take the last alignment specs with you when you go there. There is no other good susp shop around were you live? I have seen people leave stuff loose several times and later.. cause a problem. Myself and several of my fellow techs were talking about this this morning of course by description and not seeing the car sounds like possible rack problem,p-s pump,p-s line or pressure fitting, or the tie rods or even a ball joint beleive it or not have seen them start to freeze up and get really stiff. But all in all hard to say without seeing the car. definetly take it to a good suspension guy.

Todd

[BODYMAN]

Sounds like one of the following:
Slipped belt in the tire
Alignment bolt loosened up

Could be a tire but do you feel anything at highway speeds. MOST times a bad tire will show at highway speeds. Take it to a good susp shop you trust and call it a day.


Todd :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Richy04]

Sounds like a Loose nut behind the wheel. :P


Drum roll please.. I got a million of em..:banana2::banana2::banana2 :

[Wires]

Sounds like a Loose nut behind the wheel. :P


Funny, all of my cars have that problem...............

[Merc-O-matic]

Look at Highway speeds.....35-45 & 55-65 and the "crown" of the road..
can do it to you everytime.

[CRUZTAKER]

Dont want to offend anyone here are you sure no one hit something on the raod with the car? no offense.


No offense either, but this is exactly what I was thinking.
Do you have kids?

My steering wheel did this before.
Once after jumping a curb at 35 mph, and most lately in the Focus after rear ending a Camry at 70 mph. :eek:

[Wires]

It's noticable on a flat parking lot, at slow speed, and doesn't change from 10, 25, 35, 45 and 60 MPH.

I don't feel anything wrong with the tires - nothing gets worse at speed.

I do remember my wife hard braking to avoid an animal, but there was no curb - we didn't hit anything.

I'm thinking either the alignment shop didn't tighten everything all the way, or I've underestimated how hard something was hit.

Come to think of it, it's most likely hitting the shoulder of the road with the inside of the right front tire. That's got to be it.

I'll take it back to the shop and ask them to check everything for wear and/or damage, and set it back to carfixer's specs if it's been knocked out. I need to remember to ask for a "Before" and "after" printout.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Ask the shop if they will use a torque wrench on your camber/caster adjustments. IF they won't, go somewhere else. The torque values are very high, like near 150 ft lbs high, on the camber bolts. I had one shop tighten my camber adjustment bolts with an 8" long open end hand wrench. That camber adjustment lasted about 2 miles... Also had another shop hit the camber adjustment w/ a 1/2" drive air gun. When I checked w/ a torque wrench their air gun had only gotten the camber bolts up to around 80 ft lbs. Way undertight. You really need a torque wrench on the aluminum subframe

[Wires]

Thanks for the tip. I just called him back to ask that. He told me 110 Ft Lbs. Does anyone have the exact spec? VEB said it was close to 150, but 110 doesn't bother me (yet, ignorance is bliss.) (see next post, I'm bothered.)

One more thing, he told me that he couldn't get the camber exactly to Carfixer's specs,but it was close. .1 - .2 degrees off, or something. (I couldn't write it down.)

I suppose that means either:
1. It was that close when he got it, and didn't want to work to get it closer.
2. He wasn't doing something exactly right.
3. My car is damaged somewhere.

I thank everyone for their help, and I have to add that until this problem occurred I had no problems. I did only get about 20-25K out of the front and rear tires.

The alignment guy at Team Ford (Atlanta, GA) isn't there anymore, the guys in the SE region forum say he's the best. I wish I knew where he went!

[larryo340]

Thanks for the tip. I just called him back to ask that. He told me 110 Ft Lbs. Does anyone have the exact spec? VEB said it was close to 150, but 110 doesn't bother me (yet, ignorance is bliss.)
!

Open the attachment and you will find the torque specs.

Looks like 166 ft-lbs is the winning number :)

[Wires]

Thank you for the manual page.

Can I tighten these further myself, or does it need to be secured on the alignment rack?

I hope 110 ft lbs isn't code for "I hit it with the darn air gun."

I guess it's going to Team Ford, soon.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

If its way undertight, all bets are off when it leaves the rack. If you can't get a tech to use a torque wrench explicitly asking, that is bad. Try to bribe one of them with a 20? You really shouldn't have to do that though...

[Wires]

That's what I get for living here in the sticks.

It's got to go to my expert Ford mechanic for another problem that can't wait, so I'll see if he can align it also, or recommend a good alignment guy.

[Wires]

Sorry to bump my old thread, but the steering wheel is once again off by the same amount, in the same direction.

I KNOW neither me or my wife hit anything, the tire pressure is good and nothing else has happened.

All I can think of is that I've got a bad steering rack or tie rod ends, or maybe when the suspension slips (because the bolt wasn't tightened enough) it throws the geometry off to mess up the toe setting without changing the lengths of the tie rods.

In effect, the caster or camber adjustment affects toe, so when one is knocked out, the other changes.

It's going to my expert Ford mechanic this time. I know he has a torque wrench.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Tie rod ends or rack would manifest themselves as play in the wheel. If you have no play but your alignment is off that's not it. Did you ever get it re aligned? It just sounds like your camber bolts were under tight and the alignment can move. It happened to me when the alignment tech tightened the camber cam bolts on my MM using a short 8" long open end wrench. The camber walked all over the place after driving on it, until I had it re aligned and tightened properly. It takes a lot of torque to pinch the aluminum cradle in enough to hold the camber adjustment. I doubt this is any more involved than that.