I need help right now

[Motorhead350]

I decided to change my discs and pads. I got the discs from Ford and the pads from Autozone and here are the problems: The Autozone pads seem too thick because when they are attached to the calapar they will not fit on the discs... the front and rear have the same problem. I compared pads and the worn out ones are a lot thinner (as I would think) and I really have no idea how to get the new pads on. I am guessing they need to be shaved somehow, I need to take back the Autozone pads and get ones from Ford or Autozone simply gave me the wrong pads. Again they fit in, but when it's time to put them in place on the discs the disc is too wide to fit everything or the pads are too fat.

Now the next problem is getting the front discs off. I noticed there is something that holds the calapar (???) and that has two bolts holding it on. I cannot break these bolts free. Seems like you need air tools to get those bolts free to get the disc off.

Any suggestions?

I need help fast because my car is still in pieces and is waiting for me to work on it in the morning.

Thanks everyone.

[Blk Mamba]

Dom, as you wear out brake pads, the piston in the caliper moves nearer the disc, to compensate for the loss of pad. Take a c clamp, and a block of wood, and gently force the pistons back into the cylinder, then re-install the pads, they should fit properly, watch that the master cylinder doesn't overfill, from the fluid returning from the calipers. the calipers, are attached to the caliper mounting bracket, these are attached with a large, 18MM, ? head bolt, you don't need to remove these, the caliper is mounted to these with two smaller bolts, 1 top, and 1 bottom. It's been a while since I did mine, (and don't remember, but I think they are allen head), they shouldn't be to tight, take a mallet and tap the wrench to break it loose. Hope this helps.

[MidnightStalker]

Take a c clamp, and a block of wood, and gently force the pistons back into the cylinder, then re-install the pads, they should fit properly, watch that the master cylinder doesn't overfill


Another thing you can do, assuming your brake fluid is at the correct level now, is to loosen the bleeder valve just a bit as you compress the piston, just be sure to put some newspaper or cardboard down to keep from making TOO big of a mess. I hope you get that taken care of before work :/

And try some liquid wrench/WD-40 on the locked bolts, it should loosen up just fine.

Best of luck,
Nic

[Motorhead350]

Man I understand what you are saying, but I still don't completely know how to do it. I know that I needed a C clamp for something, but I don't know where those two other bolts are. I was messing with the ones that are 18mm and that didn't work. Now I know to look for smaller ones. What exactly do I have to move with the wood and C clamps? I understand what to do, but are there two little things, is it the size of the pad? What do I need to move back? Like what does it look like?

Thanks man!

[Vortech347]

OKay, your goal is to push the round things (caliper pistons) back into the calipers to make room for the new pads.

Take a small piece of wood and place it against the caliper. Put the C-clap AROUND the entire assembly so that as you twist it will compress the piston into the caliper. If its the fronts I believe they have 2 pistons, make sure you're pushing both in at the same time. I'll be honest, I usually don't use a piece of wood, they compress pretty damn easy. Just make sure you arn't pushing them in sideways or anything.

The rear calipers MAY or MAY not need a tool to turn them as they're being pushed. I'm sure someone else can confrim this. I did the brake job on my last MM a year ago and can't remember. You want to compress the pistons in only enough so that they are flush with the caliper surface, do not force them in anymore than that or to make the pads fit.

DO NOT TOUCH THE BLEEDER SCREW, if you're asking these questions Don't touch that damn thing you'll put air in the lines.

Take some damn pictures if you don't understand and point to it with pen.

[larryo340]

Here are the factory illustrations, and removal and reinstall details.

[Vortech347]

Got more to add...

Removing the front caliper brackets (that are keeping the rotor on and hold the caliper itself)

You'll need to use a hammer to break them free. Also when you re-install them use a torque wrench and lock-tite. If thats not avalible tighten them *****es down as hard as you can but LOCK-TITE IS A REQUIREMENT!!!!! I had one of thoes bolts back out on my explorer. I hit the brakes and the caliper flew up with the bracket and slamed into the wheel destroying it and the tire....

Do you have any mechanicly inclined friends you can call?

[Vortech347]

Larry bad ass post my friend!

Damn they're REALLY tight. 118ft-lbs.

Brakes are easy but if you don't understand them you could kill yourself, or others. Don't do this in a hurry. Find another ride to work before half assing a brake job and putting others at risk.

[MidnightStalker]

First, DO NOT let the caliper hang by just the brake line, it will tear, you will be out lots of cash for towing, repairs, time lost at work, etc. leave it resting on the rotor unless you have a FIRM grip on it.


Typical caliper:
http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00bTtaKRYjREkcM/Brake-Caliper.jpg

your goal:
Make the two circle parts FLUSH with the rest of the caliper

Use the C-clamp (if you cant do it with your hands, which is sometimes the case) and a small piece a wood.

First, remove the pads, you'll put them back on after you compress the pistons.
Put the small piece of wood directly on the 2 circle-shaped pistons. SLOWLY compress the clamp. As it compresses the master cylinder will become more full. Once the pistons are flush with the rest of the caliper, put the pads back on and try putting the caliper on again.

*EDIT*

and i agree with everything stated above.

[Vortech347]

Another tip...

You can also reuse the old pad to compress the pistons in. This is usually what I do.

Just be careful for the love of god. MM's are big, heavy, and lots of kenetic energy. You crash that thing into a minivan full of kids and you're life is over.

[larryo340]

First, DO NOT let the caliper hang by just the brake line, it will tear, you will be out lots of cash for towing, repairs, time lost at work, etc. leave it resting on the rotor unless you have a FIRM grip on it.


Typical caliper:
http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00bTtaKRYjREkcM/Brake-Caliper.jpg




Agreed, I usually use mechanics wire to support the calipers when removed.

It would be very nice if that ^^^ caliper was on a Panther :D

[MidnightStalker]

Another tip...

You can also reuse the old pad to compress the pistons in. This is usually what I do.

That's a good idea, I never thought to do that, im always thinking last second who i can ask for a ride to home depot to buy a $0.50 piece of wood to compress the pistons :P

[Vortech347]

It also prevents the caliper pistons from being pushed in to far. SEE I'm smart at something!! :)

[Odinson]

Hey

Done plenty of brake jobs but not on ABS cars. I heard in brake school (I was an underbody mechanic long ago) that ABS systems can be screwed up by compressing the callipers like that without opening the bleeder screws. All ABS cars where bled one way via vaccum or gravity bleeding in my shop.

I guess the MM's are resistant to that? IMO training often warns you about things that can go wrong with only a few model cars.

BTW: you probably want to open your master cylinder before you do the compression without bleeding. That fluid needs to go somewhere. Brake fluid ruins paint so put a bowl, bag, etc to catch the cascading spilling fluid.

[MidnightStalker]

haha, yeah, I have yet to do a brake job on my car, but im starting to hear the brake pads screeching song of doom...

[Vortech347]

No, it'll be fine. The ABS systems on Fords are not the ones you're talking about. If I know Don from other posts he's made I'll be surprised if there is any brake fluid in the resevor. :)

[larryo340]

Another tip...

You can also reuse the old pad to compress the pistons in. This is usually what I do.

I would just add I turn the pad around so as to squeeze the metal backing plate of the pad.


Hey

Done plenty of brake jobs but not on ABS cars. I heard in brake school (I was an underbody mechanic long ago) that ABS systems can be screwed up by compressing the callipers like that without opening the bleeder screws. All ABS cars where bled one way via vaccum or gravity bleeding in my shop.

I guess the MM's are resistant to that? IMO training often warns you about things that can go wrong with only a few model cars.

BTW: you probably want to open your master cylinder before you do the compression without bleeding. That fluid needs to go somewhere. Brake fluid ruins paint so put a bowl, bag, etc to catch the cascading spilling fluid.

I've owned Fords for along time and never had a ABS problem by compressing the caliper pistons, and I have never opened the bleeder to compress the caliper. As you said make sure to remove the master cylinder cap and put rags around to catch any fluid spill over. The only time your screwed with bleeding these ABS brakes is if you let the master cylinder run dry pulling in air. Then the hydraulic control unit must be electronicly bled with the scan tool.

[larryo340]

No, it'll be fine. The ABS systems on Fords are not the ones you're talking about. If I know Don from other posts he's made I'll be surprised if there is any brake fluid in the resevor. :)


:eek:^^^^+1 on that, then he's screwed as explained in the above post

[FordNut]

As some have stated, once the calipers are loose just use an old pad with the c clamp to compress the pistons back into the caliper. I use a steering wheel puller instead of c clamp but it serves the same purpose.

I believe the OEM front brake is attached with a spring & wedge block at the bottom of the caliper bracket, but can't remember for sure. If so, there is a small bolt at the bottom of the caliper mount, remove it. Then hammer the wedge & spring out from between the caliper and caliper mounting bracket. If that's not the way it attaches, it may have two pins which have torx or hex heads.

When re-installing make sure and pump up the brakes very well before putting the car in gear!

[Blk Mamba]

The above, is not the style of brakes on my MM, but I did own something with that set-up, just don't remember what, I have craft. (can't remember a fxxxxxg thing.)

[Motorhead350]

I actually got the ball rolling last night around 2am, but the internet was very slow...

Thanks everyone. I have all pads and the rear discs installed. I will do the front discs when I go back home for the better tools.

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Dom, when you compress the pistons, you want to make sure you uncapped the reservoir under the hood, otherwise it'll pop spilling fluid. Also, after they are installed, you can open the bleeders (one at a time) and pump the brakes a couple of times to make sure the system is nice & tight.

[Vortech347]

Don't touch the bleeders. Its not required.

[69marquis conv]

... you can open the bleeders (one at a time) and pump the brakes a couple of times to make sure the system is nice & tight...

Please don't pump the brakes with the bleeders open! You can have someone pump them up then hold firm on the pedal while you open the bleeder allowing thepedal to drop to the floor, but be sure to tighten the bleeder before your assistant allows the pedal to return to normal position.
But like Vortech said, bleeding isn't absolutely necessary at this point anyway.

[Odinson]

"I've owned Fords for along time and never had a ABS problem by compressing the caliper pistons, and I have never opened the bleeder to compress the caliper. As you said make sure to remove the master cylinder cap and put rags around to catch any fluid spill over. The only time your screwed with bleeding these ABS brakes is if you let the master cylinder run dry pulling in air. Then the hydraulic control unit must be electronicly bled with the scan tool."

First you have to figure out if you rolled the seals in the MC. That sounds like a lot of fun. Eeeeeek. LOL.

One day when my wife lets me I'll upgrade the rotors to cross drilled. Better suits my driving style. Of course I want to throw a coat of high temp paint the calipers too. What color to choose...

Wait I know, black of course.

[cv2000pi]

It does not hurt to open the bleeder at the caliper though, the worst fluid in the complete system is at the calipers on our vehicles, it sees the most heat in the system too. When I raced SCCA they required or recommended flushing the brakes yearly. I think 3% moisture in your complete system is where you start getting brake fade, how long was the master cylinder cap open? There is a lot of theories and reading on this subject and will all the discussions on oils, filters, transmission fluids and distilled water for the cooling systems why is it the one fluid that keeps our cars our family and us save daily. The foreign manufactures I think recommend flushing their system ever 30,000 miles but I have never seen an domestic manufacture mention it. Is this something we just do think about doing? Who here is running five or six year old antifreeze??? now six year of brake fluid???

[CRC]

It does not hurt to open the bleeder at the caliper

Good way to introduce air into the system...I would never open a bleeder unless I'm bleeding the system. Hence the term Bleeder.

[cv2000pi]

The bleeder is at the top of the caliper area, fluid should be at the top of the caliper/bleeder unless you hit the brake pedal how are you introducing air? When you compress the caliper pistons fluid is pushed out the bleeder then you shut the bleeder. Your worst brake fluid in a caliper, it is a lot darker than the fluid in the master cylinder. Air can alway be worked out of the system, it called gravity bleeding since the master cylinder is above the caliper fluid flows one direction, out the bleeder. Air is a problem, I agree but what about moisture, boiling points of new-old brake fluid. 3% moisture in the system lower the boiling point of brake fluid, how long are you leaving the master cylinder cap off when working on your brake system?

[Richy04]

Hey

Done plenty of brake jobs but not on ABS cars. I heard in brake school (I was an underbody mechanic long ago) that ABS systems can be screwed up by compressing the callipers like that without opening the bleeder screws. All ABS cars where bled one way via vaccum or gravity bleeding in my shop.


Thats a negative K, I've done quite a few cars with ABS and nary a problem.

Brakes are easy on a MM.

Pop the hood
Remove the top of the Master cylinder cap and lay it over the top placing a rag under it to catch spillover (or remove some BF if you feel it will spill over).
Jack up a side and remove a wheel turning the wheel so the caliper is exposed.

Take a flat clean paint scraper and lodge it between the rotor and the brake pad and apply pressure inward to seat the pistons, do this on both sides gently until the pistons are totally seated. Pref with two scrapers. Once seated, reset the caliper on the slides and remove. I hang the calipers from bungy cords to protect the hoses.

Skipping rotor R&R, put the new pads in with some anti-squeal compound and place the caliper back on the rotor, if it doesnt fit, you have to reseat the pistons and reset the caliper slide. If you did it right, the caliper should drop right onto the rotor. From there its simple reassembly and bleeding.

Its a good time to paint the bracket and caliper BTW.

[justbob]

Sorry but some of you scare me.

For one there is absolutely no reason for ever opening a bleeder screw unless you've accidently introduced air to the system, your performing a repair, or changing your fluid.

After you remove the small bolts stab a small pry bar between the inboard pad and the rotor and gently pry against the pad you are allready replacing, you will do zero damage to the rotor.

Use a real 1/2" Rachet to remove the 18 mm bolts to gain access to the rotor, hammers are for nails.

Nice tip on the thread locker for the 18 mm bolts btw, however in the hundreds of brake jobs or more that i've done i have never done this and have never had a problem. This does sound like a good thing to do and i will start doing so.


One of the most important things not mentioned here yet is the use of anitsieze on the caliper slides. Always remove the slides, clean them and install antiseize to keep them functioning smoothly, these bugers are the reason why many times the inboard pad takes most of the beating.


Doing all four brakes on a marauder with no air tools and only a jack should never take you longer than an hour once you have an idea of what to do. It should take you longer to remove and install the wheels.

[larryo340]

One of the most important things not mentioned here yet is the use of anitsieze on the caliper slides. Always remove the slides, clean them and install antiseize to keep them functioning smoothly, these bugers are the reason why many times the inboard pad takes most of the beating.

This is what I use on the caliper slides:

http://www.troublecodes.net/articles/grease.jpg