Smoke puff on startup?? WTF?!

[Merc4Hire]

So I'm confused...my 50k mile Marauder has a little smoke puff on startup. Almost like an older car with worn valve guide seals, but it's not beat up at all. It's stock as a rock and the previous owner didn't seem they type to beat it up, he was 59 and used it as a cruiser. What gives??

It seems to have started after I changed the oil. The first entire week I had it there was no problem, then I changed to Amsoil 10w/30, which I've never had a problem with, and I noticed this. I got 6 quarts in it, like always...nothing strange I can think of. Really only does it when it sits for quite a while, like over night, or if I leave it a few hours. My boss said the synthetic oil is sneaking past the seals, but I dunno...I've never heard of that happening on a newer motor.:confused:

It's not really a huge deal to me, I still love the car, I'd just like to find out what I'm going to have to do to it in the future...head job maybe? Or just drive it til it dies and put a terminator motor in it...:D

[imorb1994]

The "puff" at star up is a common problem with 03's use the search function, there is alot of info about this.
Don't know what relation to recently changing your oil has to do with it. Is it possible that it was already doing this and you were not noticing it before?
Also not to start another oil thread but why are you using 10w30 when the manufacture recomends 5w20.
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43224&highlight=blue+smoke

[CBT]

I can tell when my oil is low, it WON'T smoke on start-up, lol.

[merc]

Also not to start another oil thread but why are you using 10w30 when the manufacture recomends 5w20.
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43224&highlight=blue+smoke

10w30 could be the issue.

[SC Cheesehead]

10w30 could be the issue.

That's what I'm thinking.

Continued operation with 10w30 could lead to more problems than a little smoke at start up.

[Zack]

10w 30 will not cause any problems. You guys crack me up sometimes!

[tjg442]

YOU ALREADY FOUND THE PROBLEM ! GO BACK TO 5-20, LIKE THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW RECOMEND!!! :shake:

[O's Fan Rich]

I've had the issue for a spell.
Don't really bother me, although I had a lot of jerk off comments on my Youtube X pipe video about the smoke.
The new motor will take care of that smoking at start up one day!

[O's Fan Rich]

Oh, and I use 5-30w Mobil 1.....
It's the VERY BEST OIL EVER!!!

hehehehhhehhehehhehehehehhehhe heh!!!!!!!!

[chader]

it is just what they do....just love it the way it is

[RF Overlord]

Merc4Hire, as the others said, it's a common issue. Your motor is not going to expire anytime soon because of it. Unless it suddenly gets markedly worse, just drive it and enjoy.

Your boss's comment about synthetic oil "sneaking past the seals" hasn't been true for at least 30 years. It's one of those "urban legends" that refuses to die, along with "Pennzoil causes sludge".

I do agree that 10W-30 is a tad thick for New Jersey winter temps, but if you're not getting any start-up knocking or other unfriendly sounds, then you're probably alright using it.

[BODYMAN]

Had this problem on my 03 KB-S at 25,xxx miles. took the heads off and found the #4 cylinder Valve guide seals had failed, kinda suspected that after changing and inspecting the old plugs. Was smoking at start up so bad it would puff a cloud like you were having a nice big campfire got real embarassing at a car show when you started it up! went thru both heads and all valves replaced never had the issue again. Thank god I did the work myself or it would have costed me some coin. If the problem was not so bad I would have let it ride, which I did for about 5,xxx until it got real bad.

P.S. RF, I have had problems with Penzoil gunking up will never use it again took apart a motor on a stang I bought when motor failed the orig owner stated had always used Penzoil upon disassemble it was pretty nasty but not the reason the motor failed.


:beer:

[Vortech347]

My 03' did it from the day I got it with 28k on it. Most of the time it would do it after the car had sat for 3-4 days. So far nothing from this 04'

[Marauderjack]

Mine has done it from time to time for 4+ years....I now have 193,987 miles on it with 109,987 of the supercharged.....and it still does it every once in awhile!!:cool:

BTW.....mine has never used any oil between changes.....ever!!!:beer::bows :

Don't worry about it!!:shake:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[ctrlraven]

I've seen mine do it 2-3 times since 12/2005, it tends to happen when the vehicle sits for more than 2-3 days which is a pretty rare thing lol.

[Motorhead350]

It means your car has gotten to stage two for the break in period.

[justbob]

Mine has done that since i bought her with 13,320 miles on it, no worrries.

It just means she's fast, thats all.

[O's Fan Rich]

keep checking your oil levels, top of as needed... and drive it.

[Bluerauder]

The "puff" at start up is a common problem with 03's use the search function, there is alot of info about this.
I don't think that the "Blue Smoke on Start-Up" was restricted to the '03s. Seems to me that it has affected both '03s and '04s to some degree. Not an issue with my '03 -- but I have been using only 5W-20 Motorcraft synthetic blend since day 1.

[Bigdogjim]

I have 46K on mine and been blowing smoke on start up for years and no issue with it, Dealer check it twice and found nothing? I have had mine marauder since 9/28/02:)

Seams to do when not used in a few days. This car is not a daily driver that is what I have a F-150 for :):):)

[rayjay]

My 04 does it once in a while. Usually when its not been run for a few days as ctrlraven said.

[ROB502]

My kids just say "HEY SMOKIE" like in the movie Stuart Little.... it's done it from day one new:shake:

[imorb1994]

I don't think that the "Blue Smoke on Start-Up" was restricted to the '03s. Seems to me that it has affected both '03s and '04s to some degree. Not an issue with my '03 -- but I have been using only 5W-20 Motorcraft synthetic blend since day 1.
Ok a better way to word it: It seems to be that more 03's have this issue because there are more of them.:2thumbs:

[Merc4Hire]

Ok, I feel better. Didn't even think to use the search function on this one...who woulda thought it was common??

Now I have another question though...why isn't there a recall for this?!?!?! I mean, I'm sorry, but if I bought a car and it started puffing smoke at 10, 15, 25k miles or whatever, I'd be TOTALLY PISSED OFF!!!

Granted it's not an issue that will cause catastrophic failure, but aside from all else it's bad for Ford's reputation! That's just stupid. Is it too much to ask that our cars shouldn't smoke?!

Maybe we should all get together and petition Ford. A $35,000 car shouldn't smoke, at least not til 100k, IF THAT!

[Merc4Hire]

Not to mention the embarassment when everyone looks at your car like it's a pile of ****.

[Smokie]

Ok, I feel better. Didn't even think to use the search function on this one...who woulda thought it was common??

Now I have another question though...why isn't there a recall for this?!?!?! I mean, I'm sorry, but if I bought a car and it started puffing smoke at 10, 15, 25k miles or whatever, I'd be TOTALLY PISSED OFF!!!

Granted it's not an issue that will cause catastrophic failure, but aside from all else it's bad for Ford's reputation! That's just stupid. Is it too much to ask that our cars shouldn't smoke?!

Maybe we should all get together and petition Ford. A $35,000 car shouldn't smoke, at least not til 100k, IF THAT!

I agree that it would be embarrasing to see the car spew a cloud of blue smoke when you start it, lets say in the parking lot of a restaurant, which means that it did it after your first start of the day.

My car has 50k and it's almost 7 years old, it has smoked (and I do look for it) 3 times since I bought it, all 3 times after sitting idle for a week or more, always in my driveway, first star of the day. Do I have a problem with this...no.

If your pattern is daily or on any start up other than the first of the day, it would bother me and I would replace the valve guide seals.

[Bulten Rauder]

IMHO (& MANY others)...NOTHING better than Amsoil...do the research!!!! :beatnik: Put it in your tranny too...but flush it with Mercon V, Amsoil ATS is Big $$$

[frdwrnch]

Think of how many Chevy's would get "recalled" for this issue! Ford's position on this would fall under oil consumption for warranty coverage. This would have to be in excess of one quart per 1000 miles for them to address it.

[lastdaze04]

On another Mustang forum, some of the 2003 Mach 1's also had the same problem,:shake: if I understand things right they have the same motors as ours and it too is mostly the 2003 and rarely the 2004's
I agree, there should have been a recall and Ford should have made it right for the customer.:mad2:
FWIW.
Rick

[Merc4Hire]

IMHO (& MANY others)...NOTHING better than Amsoil...do the research!!!! :beatnik: Put it in your tranny too...but flush it with Mercon V, Amsoil ATS is Big $$$

+1, and not to change the subject of the thread, but anyone who can read lab tests should know this by now, I fail to realize why these oil arguements still persist. I've been researching the highly sensative topic of motor oil for 2.5 years and have come to this same colclusion. Every lab test I've ever seen from any & every different company shows basically the same result.

I know people will chime in and argue here, feel free, because I've already done my research, which I'm sure you haven't.

Mobil 1 is a great way to flush $6+ straight down the toilet. It gets beat in lab tests by a few NON SYNTHETIC oils for god sake!! Does bad in lab tests in general, and everyone in the know realizes most of these "synthetic" shelf oils now lack zinc...which is what basically provided all the protection. The zinc was polluting catalytic converters quicker, manufacturers are required BY LAW to warranty these & other emissions equipment for 100k, therefore they petitioned Mobil to remove the zinc, which it, and most other companies did a few years back.

Hence, every manufacturer "highly recommends" Mobil 1!:D

I found out that nice little tidbit, and this disturbing factoid...to legally declare themselves "full synthetic" oil, they only have to be 51% synthetic, which most are. There are basically 3 TRUE synthetics left, Amsoil, Redline, and Torco. I use Amsoil because it's readily available to me. I've had plenty of people tell me to just use this or that oil. Bottom line is I don't listen, because 90% know not of what they speak.

I use lab tests & research to find my answers, whereas most everyone else here and on every other forum will say "ABC is the BEST OIL EVER because I've used it for 30 years witout a problem!" NEWS FLASH: NO oil, no matter how crappy is likely to cause failure. It's the LACK of oil that does the trick!

All these people who think the factory knows best crack me up! "Don't use any other oil but what the factory recommends!!":lol:...like it'll blow the motor or something. If the factory knew best our cars wouldn't blow smoke and shift like **** out of the box!!:beer:

[rayjay]

You forgot Royal Purple, it is a true synthetic also. FWIW, my DTR seems to run the best on RP. I see a 1.5 mpg improvement over other full synthetics I've tried.

[Marauderjack]

+1, and not to change the subject of the thread, but anyone who can read lab tests should know this by now, I fail to realize why these oil arguements still persist. I've been researching the highly sensative topic of motor oil for 2.5 years and have come to this same colclusion. Every lab test I've ever seen from any & every different company shows basically the same result.

I know people will chime in and argue here, feel free, because I've already done my research, which I'm sure you haven't.

Mobil 1 is a great way to flush $6+ straight down the toilet. It gets beat in lab tests by a few NON SYNTHETIC oils for god sake!! Does bad in lab tests in general, and everyone in the know realizes most of these "synthetic" shelf oils now lack zinc...which is what basically provided all the protection. The zinc was polluting catalytic converters quicker, manufacturers are required BY LAW to warranty these & other emissions equipment for 100k, therefore they petitioned Mobil to remove the zinc, which it, and most other companies did a few years back.

Hence, every manufacturer "highly recommends" Mobil 1!:D

I found out that nice little tidbit, and this disturbing factoid...to legally declare themselves "full synthetic" oil, they only have to be 51% synthetic, which most are. There are basically 3 TRUE synthetics left, Amsoil, Redline, and Torco. I use Amsoil because it's readily available to me. I've had plenty of people tell me to just use this or that oil. Bottom line is I don't listen, because 90% know not of what they speak.

I use lab tests & research to find my answers, whereas most everyone else here and on every other forum will say "ABC is the BEST OIL EVER because I've used it for 30 years witout a problem!" NEWS FLASH: NO oil, no matter how crappy is likely to cause failure. It's the LACK of oil that does the trick!

All these people who think the factory knows best crack me up! "Don't use any other oil but what the factory recommends!!":lol:...like it'll blow the motor or something. If the factory knew best our cars wouldn't blow smoke and shift like **** out of the box!!:beer:

Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express Saturday night??:confused:;)

[ctrlraven]

You forgot Royal Purple, it is a true synthetic also. FWIW, my DTR seems to run the best on RP. I see a 1.5 mpg improvement over other full synthetics I've tried.
Amsoil is a true synthetic also.

[rayjay]

Amsoil is a true synthetic also.

and was the 1st on the market. I've used it before. It was the oil my ZX3 preferred.

[Bulten Rauder]

I've got RP in mine at the moment. Next change, it will be Amsoil and from now on. Check out the lab tests and see the info concerning the two products.

Nothing beats Amsoil on paper or in the lab...which in turn will be proven on the road and track.

[Merc4Hire]

You forgot Royal Purple, it is a true synthetic also. FWIW, my DTR seems to run the best on RP. I see a 1.5 mpg improvement over other full synthetics I've tried.

I've heard otherwise with this one too...but in all honesty I haven't looked too much into it. When I found the list of "true synthetics" tho, RP wasn't on it. :confused:

I also heard they changed their formula to follow suit with Mobil 1. I was wondering why I started to see Royal Purple at Wal Mart...:D

It's probably still better than Mobil 1 though...that stuff is a small step above a base stock shelf oil.:shake:

[ckadiddle]

OhGeeze....not another oil thread. ;)

Usually the "giant cloud of smoke" will be seen if the car sits for a week, you start it up and move it (with cold engine) a very short distance (like from street to driveway), then shut it off. Everything seems fine until you come out to start it a day or two later to go to work. Then, HUGE cloud of smoke.

I have seen this once or twice in the blue when unusual circumstances cause it to sit for long period of time. Usually it runs me back and forth to work five days a week and goes areound town on weekends. Our 2004 black has never "puffed" - it can sit for quite long periods unused, but when we do drive it the engine gets fully warmed up.

These are my experiences, your mileage may vary. Both times the blue puffed, it fit the odd set of conditions I had read about here on mm.net.

[Vortech347]

I run sunflower oil. Works great.

[O's Fan Rich]

I run sunflower oil. Works great.

That's good for fish fry's too!!!

[ckadiddle]

That's good for fish fry's too!!!
I like to pick up the used oil at McDonald's. Smells like fresh hot french fries as I drive down the road! It's free too!

[Merc4Hire]

I run sunflower oil. Works great.

I'm sorry, but again, I have to respectfully disagree. 90% of cooking oils lack the protective ingredient for our motors.

Lab tests show that Pam, and Crisco are the only TRULY good oils to use. Go ahead...see for yourself. :D:lol:

[offroadkarter]

I think we should talk this topic over at the junkyard :neener:

[RF Overlord]

+everyone in the know realizes most of these "synthetic" shelf oils now lack zinc...which is what basically provided all the protection. The zinc was polluting catalytic converters quicker,Actually, what is reduced (not missing) in the current formulation is ZDDP...zinc dialkyldithiophosphate. And it is the phosphorus portion that is poisonous to catalytic converters, not the zinc. Also, this applies to ALL motor oils, not just synthetics. Other chemicals are introduced into the additive pack to compensate, so this is a non-issue in a modern engine. Older motors with flat-tappet cams are a different story.

[sconut1]

Maybe a question... I asked about this with my car some time ago, and after reading the answers and looking throught the forums, this behaviour is fairly normal. I have to ask, why? Oil's gotta be getting into the combustion chamber somehow? Where's it coming from? Valve Seals? And why just sometimes? That's the thing that I wonder about? Does it mean that the valve seals are starting to fail? I have trouble accepting this as normal, or a just live with it condition without knowing why.

[Merc4Hire]

Maybe a question... I asked about this with my car some time ago, and after reading the answers and looking throught the forums, this behaviour is fairly normal. I have to ask, why? Oil's gotta be getting into the combustion chamber somehow? Where's it coming from? Valve Seals? And why just sometimes? That's the thing that I wonder about? Does it mean that the valve seals are starting to fail? I have trouble accepting this as normal, or a just live with it condition without knowing why.

Agreed. It's hard to see a blatant flaw in an otherwise awesome vehicle and just shrug and accept it. I shot a letter off to Ford for *****$ and giggles...not that it'll do any good.

It definately sounds like valve seals to me, and I've seen it 1000x, but never in my life in a newer or low mileage car. Ford dropped the ball, bottom line. :censor:


As for the motor oil yes you're 100% right, I just didn't feel like being very technical about it. People got my point. And it's still an issue if you read up on the characterictics of the new oils, the shear characteristics where metal meets metal are terrible, and the way the metals wear shows that. It was much more of a problem in older motors with flat tappet cams, but none-the-less, I won't use them. These companies want to get cheap, let someone else pay for the crap...I refuse. As I said, you want to use Mobil 1 or some other oil of the like because it's "the best", by all means...it's not going to blow your motor, it's just not the best...no 2 ways about that. For typical off the shelf oils the only thing that seems to still do well is valvoline racing motor oil FWIW.

[Marauderjack]

FWIW.......I have used Mobil I 5W30 in mine since about 10K on the odometer......change it every 5K miles and now have 194,090 miles on it with the last 110K supercharged!!!:beer::bows:

It has NEVER used any oil between changes and runs as good as ever BUT I do get oil puffs every now and then??:confused: They mostly happen below 40* and I'll guess that colder temps open valve guides/seals a bit allowing a small amount of oil into the combustion chamber(s) ??:cool:

I tried Pennzoil Platinum this last change since someone mentioned their engine ran quieter with it......cannot tell a bit of difference from the Mobil I!!!:shake:

Most of the accelerated wear tests (like Falex) are really over the top and don't represent real world environment so I don't see where claiming newer oils are inferior due to these tests or just the fact they have lower levels of ZDDP is really valid!!??:shake:

BTW....I have used Mobil I 15W50 in my Cobra 408W Stroker with a flat tappet cam since 2000 with no problems!!:beer:

Marauderjack;)

[frdwrnch]

I do not think there is one single cause for this issue but here are the contributing factors (in my opinion). The new style pistons in the modular motors are a short skirt design with slightly thinner rings and shorter distances between the ring lands (grooves). The recommended oil is a thinner 5W-20. During cold operation the engine runs a rich strategy. Given the right circumstances these factors can account for oil seepage into the combustion chamber resulting in a puff of smoke on start up. I really don't think it's indicative of a problem. If it becomes consistent resulting in oil consumption, then it's time to look into it. I ran the same iridium plugs for 40k miles and when I replaced them there was no ashing or signs of trouble on the plugs even though my 300A did this regularly.

[Ford_w/loctite]

My 300A does this on occasion, too. However, I'm surpirsed that with all the talk on motor oils, valve guides, & piston rings that no one has brought up the fact that this is an all alluminum motor. Here's some food for thought, the thermal expansion characteristics are different than that of, let's say, cast iron. Due to this, they have run larger tolerances on the operating assemblies to make up for the increased expansion once the motor reaches operating temp. Hence, I can see why it would do this more on colder days. Yes/No?

[Marauderjack]

My 300A does this on occasion, too. However, I'm surpirsed that with all the talk on motor oils, valve guides, & piston rings that no one has brought up the fact that this is an all alluminum motor. Here's some food for thought, the thermal expansion characteristics are different than that of, let's say, cast iron. Due to this, they have run larger tolerances on the operating assemblies to make up for the increased expansion once the motor reaches operating temp. Hence, I can see why it would do this more on colder days. Yes/No?


Could very well be.....mine does not do it in the Summer....except when I start it to move it and start it again later.....POOF!!!!:eek:

Fewer mosquitoes here now so it ain't all bad!!!:beer:

[Merc4Hire]

My 300A does this on occasion, too. However, I'm surpirsed that with all the talk on motor oils, valve guides, & piston rings that no one has brought up the fact that this is an all alluminum motor. Here's some food for thought, the thermal expansion characteristics are different than that of, let's say, cast iron. Due to this, they have run larger tolerances on the operating assemblies to make up for the increased expansion once the motor reaches operating temp. Hence, I can see why it would do this more on colder days. Yes/No?

I doubt it. The GM LSX motor's have been all aluminum since 97 and I've had quite a few, beat all of them pretty bad, and not 1 ever smoked...EVER! I don't get it, chevy's smoke, ford's LEAK!!! Damnit tell them to get their **** straight!:lol:

[Bulten Rauder]

I doubt it. The GM LSX motor's have been all aluminum since 97 and I've had quite a few, beat all of them pretty bad, and not 1 ever smoked...EVER! I don't get it, chevy's smoke, ford's LEAK!!!

This is a very funny contradiction. :bs:

BTW, niether my Chevy 5.3 nor my two Ford 4.6's smoke. Maybe they're on the patch?:rofl:

:canada:

[Paul T. Casey]

Okay, seems the "dreaded puff" happens after the car has sat for a while. Here's what is happening. Today's oil, both synthetic and synthetic blend, have additives which help the oil cling to the surfaces they're supposed to lubricate. You drive the car around, and oil molecules are hanging on to all sorts of metal for their dear lives. You park the car and this oil is still trying to hold on to the various metal components. One big problem with this though is gravity. Ever since that Newton guy made it a law back in the 1700's, gravity has been a real PITA. Anway, when you shut your car off, some valves are partially to totally open, some pistons are not at the top of their respective cylinders. All these parts are made of metal and require lubrication, as they tend to move around a bit when the car is running, and usually they tend to move around in close proximity to other metal parts. After sitting and not running for a while, some of these oil molecules decide to obey the law, and fall to their demise on top of pistons. If you don't turn on your car for an extended period of time, enough of these molecules fall to form a small pool on top of a piston. If these pools get big enough, their combustion when you re-start the car will cause a little smoke. If atmospheric conditions are optimal, you will notice these molecules as they leave your engine in the form of visible smoke. If you see this smoke, yet notice no negligible oil usage between oil changes, then you hae nothing to worry about. My car has done the dreaded puff a few times. It still runs. My biggest smoke problem seems to be the white stuff that emanates from the rear tires from time to time. To quote an old Ford mechanic I know, "If it's a Ford and it doesn't use any oil, check the oil pump!"

[Iowa Rick]

I have a theory. When you shut the motor off the computer turns off the gas. Momentum causes the pistons/crank to continue rotating momentarily. One of the pistons ends up on the down stroke during the compression cycle. It ends up with a small vacuum and pulls some oil into the combustion chamber. What do you think????

[Local Boy]

I think Paul got it right...

ALOHA

[Marauderjack]

Remember we have 4V motors.....2X the valves of the GM and CV......:cool:

[Got_1]

I have a theory. When you shut the motor off the computer turns off the gas. Momentum causes the pistons/crank to continue rotating momentarily. One of the pistons ends up on the down stroke during the compression cycle. It ends up with a small vacuum and pulls some oil into the combustion chamber. What do you think????


no such thing as vacuum. its called negative pressure. :lol:
im just f'n with ya. we would always get ***** from our teacher when we would say "vacuum".

[frdwrnch]

New service message states: Some 2005-2010 Mustang GT's w/4.6L 3V engines may exhibit a puff of blue smoke on start up without associated oil consumption complaint. This may be due to customer drive pattern. Quick shut off after start followed by a soak period is a major contributor. customers should be advised to allow the vehicle to fully warm up prior to turning the key off to eliminate/reduce the concern and that no repair is necessary.

[Bulten Rauder]

Maybe put in an electric motor...:cowboy:

Just drive the :censor: thing.

[babbage]

Auto-Rx will clean and recondition the seals, making the smoke problem greatly reduced.

http://www.auto-rx.com (http://www.auto-rx.com)

[Glockafella]

Mine has done this once that I noticed...I had taken off the stock airbox and had started it up with no air box or filter just to hear what it would sound like...It shot a poof of white smoke out, put on the new JLT and never had it do it again.

[Glockafella]

Auto-Rx will clean and recondition the seals, making the smoke problem greatly reduced.

http://www.auto-rx.com (http://www.auto-rx.com)



serious???

[babbage]

serious???

Yep Try it.

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Why are so many of you using other than what the car recommends? That is 0 or 5w20 synthetic??

[fastblackmerc]

Why are so many of you using other than what the car recommends? That is 0 or 5w20 synthetic??

Actually 5w20 is the recommended weight. If it's not in the oil you use or the owners manual you shouldn't add it.

Nuff said!

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Actually 5w20 is the recommended weight. If it's not in the oil you use or the owners manual you shouldn't add it.

Nuff said!

Exactly what I'm saying.

[Bulten Rauder]

:burn: If you smoke the tires you'll never see any exhaust smoke!!;)

[Black Dynamite]

Mine blew smoke on start up for the first time ever yesterday. Scared the bejeebers out of me!