Another trans bites the dust

[merc406]

My buddy's early 03's Marauder just dumped the trans, will find out this week what happened, I do know he drive's like Grandma and had 15,700 miles on her.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I will post some thing about what we have found out about the recent failures. I am composing a letter now to send to Steve along with pictures.

[bigslim]

Hey Merc, who has the MM with the bad tranny? Anyone we hang out with?

[JohnE]

I am very interested in the failures for myself. My AED puts an extra 70 ft-lb's on my tranny. Although I do have a modified valve body and programming, which allows more pressure during shifts and increased fluid flow than stock. My tranny is the same as the Marauder.

[RF Overlord]

Dennis: I, too, am very interested in this...when I was installing your new pan, I noticed what I thought was a fair amount of that black sludge that acc-umulates on the magnet...I thought there was more than it should have for only 16,000 miles...

[merc]

Wow, I am very sorry to hear this information. I was just recently in the shop for replacing my transmissions rear seal. In the last couple of weeks I have not been able to get a good snap (Tire chirp) when shifting between 1 and 2 gears at Wide Open Throttle. The transmission seems to hesitate before shifting. This problem is hard to explain, but it’s like the transmission doesn’t want to shift then a couple of second engages to the next gear. The leak traveled down the drive shaft and deposited fluid on the rear sway bar. I only had 12, 000 miles on the car at the time of this occurrence.

I was just talking about transmission issues with MAD 3R this weekend during one of our group meetings. I am very interest in this out come also.

[Zack]

Wait for the write up everyone, it will be an eye opener.

[merc406]

Bigslim, he's my lawyer buddy, Maxey's said his was the first Marauder they sold, and man they took him for he say's 37 large, OUCH !!
He's had all the other problems, and this is the last one, it's for sale when tranny's done.

[mtnh]

I noticed a much different shift on that 1-2 chirp following a reflash to the latest shipping code for bmdo mid-summer. Too bad they still have the thing shifting too early on part-throttle. I would surmise that they refalshed your PCM when they changed your rear tranny seal. Mine is weeping, too, but that sounds more like the dry bushing problem in the tail shaft area of the transmission. Replacing the seal is only going to make it better for a little while, if the bushing is wearing out because it's too dry back there.

Mike

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by JohnE
My tranny is the same as the Marauder.

Yes they are both a 4R70W, however I've read a few times, and in some early Ford literature, that they made some changes to the transmissions installed in the Marauder.
Does anyone know if this is true, and if so, what the changes were?

[DetGeno]

They went to 4R75W.............waiting to hear back from Dennis?

[BillyGman]

Originally posted by DetGeno
They went to 4R75W.............waiting to hear back from Dennis?

Yeah, but I wonder what it is exactly that's different about the 4R75W trans. Is it really the same housing, tailshaft, and gears w/some minor changes? Or is it a completely different trans all together?

[bob35222]

As I wait for my '04 that is the question I have. hope we have a design/production solution to previous Tranny problems.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by BillyGman
Yeah, but I wonder what it is exactly that's different about the 4R75W trans. Is it really the same housing, tailshaft, and gears w/some minor changes? Or is it a completely different trans all together?

Basically the same tranny, no gear changes noted, but maybe a valve body improvement and a spring change in the accumulator pumps. Just enough to call it by a different model number.

[joflewbyu2]

Originally posted by SergntMac
Basically the same tranny, no gear changes noted, but maybe a valve body improvement and a spring change in the accumulator pumps. Just enough to call it by a different model number. THERE ARE GEAR CHANGES !! 1ST AND 2ND GEAR are slightly different.

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by DetGeno
They went to 4R75W.............

For '04 yes, but my post refers to the 4R70W installed in the '03 Marauders.
Supposedly the version installed in the '03 Marauders had or was to have some "Heavy Duty" changes made.

[Bowman9]

Dennis had posted:


I will post some thing about what we have found out about the recent failures. I am composing a letter now to send to Steve along with pictures.

Are we still waiting for his response?
Or did he post this letter some where else and I have just missed it?

[Zack]

Dennis is out of town til Tuesday but I can tell all of you that a lot of the problems stem from inferior factory parts in the trans and faulty installation of parts in the trans on the assembly line.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Bowman9
still waiting for his response?
Or did he post this letter some where else and I have just missed it?


I did see some sort of post describing the failure, but I can't seem to find it anymore. Anyone?

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by joflewbyu2@aol.
THERE ARE GEAR CHANGES !! 1ST AND 2ND GEAR are slightly different.

OKAY JOE! FINISH THE PARAGRAPH!

WHAT CHANGES DO YOU KNOW ABOUT?

WHAT DOES "slightly different" MEAN?

IMPROVED METALS, OR, NEW RATIOS?



TTA, the causes could be different, Jerry W. mentioned that there are as many as 10 known causes, but they all conclude with the OD slipping, then dropping out completely.

My tranny lost the intermediate clutch pack snap ring, which seems a common problem now, and the repair is an improved snap ring that looks a bit like a slinky toy made of barbed wire, about 3 coils long, 4" OD. Also, in taking the tranny down, we found a accumulator pump cover jammed in place with a bent lip. It looked like the assembly line beat it with a hammer, and this is clearly a production line screw up. My confidence in FMC QC took a hit. If you need pics for your special wrence, e-mail me at SergntMac@aol.com

A simple test for symptoms y'all, is to drive on a highway towards an incline. Once the car is up to speed and pulling it's own weight in OD, set the cruise control and see if OD will pull the car up the incline without driver's assistance. Do this with the A/C on and off. If the tranny is slipping, it will show up here first. If you lose OD, you should still be able to drive in 3rd until you get to a repair location.

[MI2QWK4U]

TripleTransAm....I am with you on that...Mark with the Silver KB car had a post on about what they did in texas to get him going, as well as detailed info on what failed and an upgrade kit that would be out there...cant find it at all....
Does anyone have that info, along with the link Mark had in the post about the problem?

[joflewbyu2]

SergntMac, 2003 tranny is 1st - 2.84, 2nd - 1.55 2004 is 1st - 2.82, 2nd 1.50 with all this talk on saving every penny at Ford, i wonder if the tranny changed to better materials or better savings !!

[merc406]

Ford and all the other auto companies have had alot of problems since asking their parts suppliers almost each year for discounts, well you shop Wal-Mart you get Wal-Mart, and the end result is product quality problems.
Dave, Mark went to Art Carr whose rep in the racing world is well known. He has a web-site.
I do business will Broader Performance Transmission's and have had good results.

[Marauder57]

So what is preventive medicine for this Tranny "problem"?

[Lidio]

I'd like to know what's going on here as well.

My shop has worked extensively with the AOD-E's and the 4R70W's which is what our MM's come with. ( I love saying that finally..."OUR MM's" since I finally bought one ). We've put as much as 650 to 750 HP in front of these in Mustangs and have had no problems at all. Now they don't weight 4500lbs and we don't expect them to go 100,000 miles but still... they will go for a while behind some serious Mustangs that do weigh some times as much as 3600lbs with a driver and 550HP all day.

The trilogy # one car has had not an iota of trouble with the original trans. The blower went on at 1800 miles and it now shows 22K on the ODO. That car has seen more WOT in the last eight months with two to five people in it then 10 of these cars combined would in five years!! At first I thought it had a weak 1-2 shift once the blower went on. I couldn't get it to shift any harder at WOT with CPU tuning so I then played with the 1-2 shift accumulator spring which really didn't help much. But I never went on to install a shift kit and still to this day not one problem to speak of at all. The 1-2 shift is still not super firm at WOT, but it hasn't gotten any worse over the last few months.

I think that some of the failures that are happening simply were bound to happen because of some kind of a defect or flaw from the factory.
Or if its behind a modded MM... then how the trans shifts and when and how the torque converter locks could have a big effect on some of this too.

I personally hate torque converter lock-up at any speeds below 61 to 66 mph on all most any automatic equipped vehicle. And I don't let the lock-up kick in unless its in 4th or over drive gear at 60+mph.
Some people believe strongly in having it locked full time at WOT once it 3d or 2nd gear... That's another story that I cant get into here and shouldn't be questioned or over thought on the MM's for right now. Its not worth having it locked at WOT for now at our power levels... its worth very little ET most of the time and only a little more mph at the 1/4 mile.

Ever since Ford started using electronically controlled lock-up in the late 80's and early 90's they strive to lock the converter as early as possible when driving. On most Ford's they try to lock it shortly after shifting into 2nd gear. And then it remains locked from 2nd until thru the rest of the gears. This makes for some times a weird feeling upshift because for a split second the computer has to unlock the converter when an upshift occurs. Other wise it would be a very harsh upshift. I believe Ford locks the converter as much, and as soon as they can for optimal mileage and it helps make less heat in the trans too. After all the fluid coupling in a torque converter is the main source of heat in a automatic trans.

Ever since we've had control ( Chips, etc ) of the Mustang's and many other Ford's computer equipped cars with electric lock-up... we've disabled lock-up until 4th gear at over 60mph. we've done this on probably 500+ cars and trucks in the last several years. This has caused no problems at all. Yes it makes a little more heat in the trans but if it needs a bigger cooler we address it which Mustangs usually do. But the trucks and lots of other Ford's seem to have pretty adequate trans cooling from the factory these days and so do the MM's from what I can tell for now. On the trilogy number-1 car, I've calibrated it to have no lock-up until 4th gear above 63mph. It's caused no problem with over heating the trans at all. I watch the trans temp thru Auto-Tap and it always right at about 196-207 degrees. These temps are not a problem in any way!!!

We've found that if you firm up the shifts, turn off lock-up most of the time when driving....When these are done to a real low mileage 4R70W, they will take a large amount of power for a long time with no serious hard part failure. Only eventually some clutches might show some wear.

Like I said at the beginning of this post I'd really like to see what's failing??

[Mark McQuaide]

One thing I do know is all this talk is making me awful glad I bought the 100,000 mile warranty. It's a shame you have to do that to feel good about buying a Ford.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by joflewbyu2@aol.
SergntMac, 2003 tranny is 1st - 2.84, 2nd - 1.55 2004 is 1st - 2.82, 2nd 1.50

Ratio changes like these seem to have a minor overall impact, yes? I wonder why they bothered...


Originally posted by Lidio
Like I said at the beginning of this post I'd really like to see what's failing?

Like I said in my post, I have pics, SergntMac@aol.com

Thanks for the informative post, Lidio, but I'm not sure any of my problems stem from mods. Perhaps the nature of my driving accelerated some wear and tear, but I firmly believe the failure is a direct result of low QC in the tranny production line.

IMHO, the OEM snap ring is either sub-standard design, or, it was never installed correctly. Either way, the replacement part is remarkably different, which says that someone knows something about this part failing, and created an improved replacement. Also, like I posted earlier, the accumulator pump was damaged in assembly, in a manner that says Joe-new-guy was on duty when my tranny was built.

[schuvwj]

Is there going to be another silent recall on this problem?

[Marauder57]

Well I can honestly say this does not suprise me....I had few 5.0 V8's in the late 80's early 90's and they were recalled for a faulty washer/fitting....just a little hard Oring basically.....but it was inside the trans and when it was made of plastic...and went...so did the whole trans.....they did a recall....but I think the reason it took so long was...it took 2 hours of labor to get to area to replace the little $5 part.

Hope this is not the same thing....I would like to find out the exact problem to take "preventive measures"....

[Zack]

Originally posted by Lidio
I'd like to know what's going on here as well.


The snap ring or 'c-clip' that holds the forward clutch packs in place (right behind the pump) is either off and laying in the trans or about to fall off. Trust me.

[MarauderBoy]

Doesn't sound like anything but inevitability regardless of preventative measures. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

[MarauderBoy]

BTW, some interesting reading . Be sure to investigate the research at the end of the commentary.

http://www.baumannengineering.com/aodeupgr.htm

[RCSignals]

Don't feel bad. These aren't the only transmissions with problems. Trans shops are full of auto trans Dodge trucks these days

[SergntMac]

LOL...All the noise here, and I get one request for pics of the failed parts. One...LOL.

[RCSignals]

You should frame the parts Mac

[AngryJohnny]

Hey guys
i just got my MM back from the dealer after they put 200 miles on it, and didnt find any thing wrong with my trans. oh yeah, they said no codes came up on my trans,
from time to time when going anywhere over 50 mph and up, it goes into OD, and then kicks back down to 3rd gear, and this keeps happening. i gave up , turned off the OD, and stayed in 3rd , all the way to the dealer
, i am lost, i towed my car home, and puit it under cover, cause i am getting tired of the run around from the dealers
if anyone has had something like this happen to them, please let me know
thank you

[AngryJohnny]

oh yeah, i only have 3,500 miles in my car, and it has 3750 on it now, thanks to the dealer joy riding in my MM

[sailsmen]

Some reported this prior to a Chip or Micro Tune that adjust the stock trans shifting.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by AngryJohnny

from time to time when going anywhere over 50 mph and up, it goes into OD, and then kicks back down to 3rd gear, and this keeps happening. i gave up , turned off the OD, and stayed in 3rd , all the way to the dealer


Isn't this similar to the problem one member had with his MM randomly downshifting at any speed? It was related to the same harness-chafing incident that plagued my Marauder, with the harness on the driver's side.

Do a search for harness, the thread started sometime in June or July 2002 (yes, over a year ago). In May I then posted a similar problem but with different symptoms (there's a cross-link to the old thread there as well). There are a lot of wires in that harness... depending on which one got sliced or shorted, anything could happen. Just an idea...