Transmission woes

[capt512]

Hello all,

Love it if some of you other stock MM owners would check this out and let me know if it differs from the shift patterns of your MM's.

On a city street I start from a stop and proceed to accelerate to the posted speed of 35 and this is what happens.

Start off in drive. Ist shift into second at 7 mph,shifts into 3rd at 20mph, shifts into 4th at 26. Then when I get to between 38 and 40 its constantly going in and out of OD. If I'm already at 40 and try to give it a little gas to get up to say 42 or 43 it drops down or does something strange where my RPM's drop way down to about 1400 and looses power. Then I have to give it enough gas to get it to downshift into what I believe is second to get back up to 40 and the whole process starts all over again. Once I get to 45 or so it seems to do better but I don't know a city in this country where the minimum is 45 . It still hesitates some pulling uphill after 45 but thats mostly under load of the AC.

Well what do ya'll think? Anybody ? Sarge?

Thanks,
Mike :banana2:

[MERCMAN]

I had the same problem, had the chip re-flashed at the chicago dynotune, ZAP problem gone

[RF Overlord]

mike:

I don't want to minimise what MAY be a transmission issue, but it doesn't sound that far off from what the stock transmission does normally. Ford programmed the unit to get into as high a gear as possible as quickly as possible for CAFE...once into O/D, the slightest push on the pedal will drop it back into 3rd, and/or unlock the T/C...I'm obviously not IN your car to experience the exact conditions, but the shift schedule on this transmission really IS rather funky...as mercman said, either get the latest update, or get a good ECM reflash or chip, and that should make your trans shift like it "should"...

...unless this all just started happening recently, then nevermind...wait until Dennis releases his info on the failing trannies...there may be some other "fix" or mod that is needed for ALL of us...

[SergntMac]

Your shift speeds appear normal for a bone stock MM, Capt. They should change if you're harder on the gas, but for a normal drive away from a stop light, they match mine, and on both of my MMs.
That behavior you describe, shifting in and out of OD, I've come to call "buckboarding." You can imagine that with a supercharged engine and a triple plate torque converter, its magnified on my MM.

Your tranny is not shifting into OD with ease, and once it does, it won't shift out without hard gas causing a down shift to 1, or 2. This is not normal behavior, but the sure test, is what I described before. See if the OD will carry the car up a slight incline under cruise control, with and without the AC on. Watch the tach for RPM rising without speed increasing likewise. If so, your tranny is slipping and on its way out. You won't get stranded, just drive with the OD turned off until you get to a dealer.

I've seen two cases recently where there is evidence that the production line QC is/has been slipping too. This "intermediate clutch pack snap ring" retainer pops out, and it's a slow burn from there, depending on your driving habits. I believe there are more sick trannies out here, and we just don't know it yet, because we have gotten used to a disappointing shift pattern from the beginning...IMHO.

Have the dealer check it out, Capt., and keep us posted?

[capt512]

Mercman,

When yo say you had your chip reflashed are you talking about the PCM. I've tried over and over again to have that done at the dealer and all I hear is that there is no new program to flash mine with.Even though it was built in 06/02.

Thanks,
Mike

[capt512]

Sarge and Overlord,

So basically it sounds like I need to get my car to Dennis somehow to get all this stuff straightened out. Right?

I just hate to void my warranty so soon. Plus I purchased an extended warranty. Wonder how hard it would be to get a refund on that.?

Ideas?

Thanks for your responses,
Mike

Ps: Do you recommend driving with overdrive switched off in the city?

[Tweety]

Mike, you buy your MM @ Northtown L/M? If so talk to Scott the Service Manager,he will work with you

[MERCMAN]

having dennis reflash your chip will not void your waranty, it is virtually undectectable. I would recommend having it dyno'd when you do it,, it really awakens the sleeping beast. My SM was with me when i had mine done, he had no problems with my having that done, just be sure to tell the dealer NOT to ever re-flash the chip when you take it in for work, otherwise you will be back to factory settings. Dennis will reflash it for a small fee, but that involves removing the PCM and sending it to him, which means no driving for a couple of days:(

[capt512]

Tweety,

Tried that several times and was always told the same thing.
" You just need to put some miles on it".
Have had much better luck with Mike Hause at Bill Woods Ford. They treated me and My MM like Gold. I'm gonna run all this by him and see what I come up with and I'll let everyone know.
Thanks for your suggestion though. I think Scott got a bad taste in his mouth from me when at 400 miles I had them, under warranty, replace 3 of my 4 wheels due to deep scratches.
You must be having good luck with him and I hope that continues. If not Mike at Bill Woods said he'd be glad to take care of any Marauder.

Mike

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by capt512
Sarge and Overlord, So basically it sounds like I need to get my car to Dennis somehow to get all this stuff straightened out. Right? I just hate to void my warranty so soon. Plus I purchased an extended warranty. Wonder how hard it would be to get a refund on that.? Ideas? Ps: Do you recommend driving with overdrive switched off in the city?

I'm slightly confised here, I presumed your MM was bone stock. If so, why go to Dennis? This is a physical problem with the transmission. A PCM reflash, or a Reinhart chip will not cure it.

Yes, you can get a refund on your extended warranty, it's prorated from the purchase date, if that's what you want to do.

After you get the tranny fixed, a Reinhart chip will do wonders for your car, but not right now. You need a new tranny, and that's what you'll get, because LM doesn't repair them anymore, all the do is R&R and outsource the tranny for rebuild.

Yes, driving with the OD off under 50 MPH is fine, just a bit hard on the MPG. Over 50 MPH, it's silly not to be in OD...IMHO

[capt512]

Sarge,
Any suggestions on how I get the dealership to admit that this is a mechanical problem with the trans and prevent getting the answer," well thats just the way they shift".

I was considering the chip after the trans is fixed, but a lot of people have said that by getting their PCM's reflashed that it cured their transmission problems.

Maybe I'm confused. Too much sulfur inhaled at the firing range I guess. Ha!

Mike

[SergntMac]

Yeah, Capt., I hear ya, there are thick headed mugs everywhere in the L-M system.

Get him into a test drive with you driving and replicate the slip on the inclined pavement. The trans should behave like it's in neutral, and how can he say that's normal when he can see a free reving tach? If he tries to say normal, or refuses to ride, just smile and say thanks, and go over his head.

Every SM/SD has a regional Customer Service rep, call them and and get a trouble ticket started. This is called "escalation," or, in laymen's terms..."put your boss on the line sonny, before I Steve Babcock your azz."

Seriously now, the Service Manager at your local dealer does not have the final word on warranty repairs or QC issues. Most of the time, it's simply a matter of who is paying the bill, and with the warranty system of L-M being so screwed up, it's likely that you haven't corssed the line yet, with a clear warranty issue. Since dealers don't repair much anymore, they just replace, the SM may just be waiting for the right diagnosis.

If he won't go for a test ride, the Rep should. Maybe you have a hard head in place, maybe not. But, if you're not comfortable with the service you're getting, make them make you comfortable, it was your 35K they took for the car...IMHO.

BTW, may be helpful to wear some of that cordite cologne, HEHEHE...

[joflewbyu2]

my MM shifted way early just like you stated. 1st I got the jet chip that improved the shift pattern. then i bought the superchips tuner. i removed the jetchip, downloaded the superchips tuner then realized my tuner did not correct tire size nor gear changes - so i removed the tuner and downloaded my saved program. i placed the jet chip back and was dissappointed. power was flat at high rpmS and the car was shifting funny. i removed the jetchip and the car runs like a bandit. shifting is great too. TO MAKE A SHORT STORY, i believe something from the tuner was saved.

[ik04]

Howdy,

My Marauder did the same thing you described. Drove mr nuts!

Now all is well. Dennis reprogrammed my CRD1 EEC and I installed the Denso IT22 plugs and WOW! New car, almost.

The factory shift points and throttle sensitivity both suck. I enjoyed a "spirited" drive today and I have learned how to drive with my new EEC program. I can control the shifts with my right foot and the extra torque and horsepower are nice, too.

Flash your EEC and all will be well!

Kevin

[j-tayl76]

Being a Service Manager for a FLM dealer, the service manager should correct your problem. There is a new PCM flash that was just released. Call LM Customer Relations if necessary. As for the statement that LM dealer's just replace tranny units now, NO thats not the case........
The tranny has to disassembled and if the repair is under $2100.00, the unit must be repaired, this method has been in effect since the first of the year..
just my .02

[Mark McQuaide]

I've seen that shifting behavior, but it seems to be related to the linkage issue because it only does it when I shift manually. I have to bump the shifter half way to neutral, then the trans starts behaving normally again. Do you find that it won't shift into OD after shifting manually? If so, you need your linkage adjusted and this might solve your problems.

Good luck,

[mtnh]

The description as I have read it is exactly like all stock mms shift. The hard bumping back and forth is the torque converter coming in and out of lockup. We run with od off for most driving below 45 on a stock program and avoid that crap, but the shifting has not improved at all with regard to rpm and throttle position, it still shifts way too early with the latest flash as of 14-aug on a bmd0 06/02 build 300a. The only solution is custom tuning from Dennis or Jerry, and I am eagerly awaiting that new product coming down the line in around 38 days. Since I have a Lincoln LS, which until I heard to Dennis, has no tuning available, this new product will tune virtually any ford from 1987 on, so I will get tuning permissions for both my MM and LS. And I was just about to drop the hammer on a chip for the MM, so this new product works out great. Again, it looks like factory shifting, and one other thing is that the flash from 14-august only stopped my car from getting easy chirps from 1-2 shifts at close to WOT, The shifting stayed way too early around town.

Mike

[MapleLeafMerc]

RF- I've heard the CAFE explanation re the MM shifting/mileage on several occasions. What bugs me (and please bear with me, I will get over it!) is this:

assume FMC sells 1,000,000 'other' autos and their avg mpg is 20
assume FMC sells 6,000 MM's and mpg is 10

1,000,000*20=20,000,000
6,000*10=60,000

20,060,000/1,006,000=19.94 CAFE (.06 mpg reduction).

at 5 mpg for the MM, CAFE is still 19.91 (.09 reduction).

I think I'm being conservative on the total 'other' sales assumptions; if this figure is higher, if the 'other' avg mpg is higher, or if MM mpg is higher, the effect of the MM on CAFE would amount to mere thousandths of one mpg reduction!

If Generous Motors took this approach, there'd be no Corvettes.

Sorry for the rant; like I said, I'll get over it!

[MAD-3R]

Ford is spending there "CAFE" mileage on Cobra's.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by MapleLeafMerc
If Generous Motors took this approach, there'd be no Corvettes.

Close...

There are no V8 Camaros or Firebirds.

It's been documented that GM expected the majority (over 60% at least) of the 4th gen ('93+) F-cars to be V6-equipped. Needless to say, the organization was shocked to see the complete opposite.

Look at what hardware they had to offset these V8s. Sunfires, Cavaliers... ever spent a week with an automatic Sunfire? Gas consumption in the city was "close" to what I could muster from my LS1 with a little careful attention.

Here's another supporting argument... do you know how many friends of mine (both up here AND in the US) had F-cars on order for months and months before cancelling and buying elsewhere? (ie. Japanese or Mustang). One buddy from New York waited over 9 months for a '99 Ram Air T/A and then got fed up and cancelled as well. Truth is, GM was in NO hurry to give you your V8 F-car. With "econo" cars like the Sunfire and Cavalier, they just couldn't afford to sell too many V8 F-cars.

Myself, I got lucky... my order squeezed in *just* as they were adding another 10 (yes, TEN) cars to the 1998 Canadian allocation (I was number 8 of those extra 10).

Had the GM econo cars been more 'econo', I'm sure the F-cars would have captured a little more of their management's favor.



Crappy thing about CAFE is that, while the intention is good (like, I just pulled a solid 30 MPG US on a business trip this weekend at 70 mph with bursts up to 80 mph, with a car that packs a flat-curve 350 net hp at the crank), the execution is flawed. Many times the test matrix will single out cars that might otherwise excel in fuel economy vs. performance, and ONE lousy bad mark will incur the guzzler stamp. Hence why we have this odd tranny shift schedule, and why my WS6 got stuck with an annoying 1st - to - 4th gear skip shift feature. Funny thing is that since I disabled the 1-4 skip shift on my WS6, economy AND driveability have gone up, and I suspect I'll experience something similar once my MM receives a revised tranny-shift programming.

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by mtnh
, this new product will tune virtually any ford from 1987 on, so I will get tuning permissions for both my MM and LS. And I was just about to drop the hammer on a chip for the MM, so this new product works out great.

The new software won't actually get you all those Ford codes unless you become a dealer for it.
As an individual, you'll still have to buy two separate chips, or two separate tuners an I have read the descriptions.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I will tell you now there are issues with this transmission, I will post a more in-depth explanation shortly, but these transmissions are failing for several reasons and all the problems are assembly line errors and an engineering problem that has plagued the 4R70W since its first build, the one problem is a c clip that retains the mechanical diode assembly in place, behind the front pump, this clip can un'seat and pop off causing OD failure and burnt clutches, This should absolutley be coverd by warranty, but they will never upgarde the infereor part. I will be offering a spiracle retaining clip replacement kit and shift kit for the car within the next 30 days

[RCSignals]

Sounds good Dennis. Would thre be such a thing as a 4R70W to 4R75W "upgrade" kit in the future?