The need to remove the chip(???)

[BillyGman]

sorry for the novice question guys, but I'm bringing my MM into a MOD-friendly Ford dealer that I've just found to have the Stallion Torque converter installed on Thursday. I was going to do that myself, but w/all the talk about possible transmission problems w/these cars, I figured that I had better give a dealer some biz and establish a business relationship w/them if they're MOD-fireindly, so that I can maintain a waurantee incase the Trans goes.
Anyway, my question is, should I remove the Reinhart chip that I have in the computer before bringing it to the dealer, Or should I leave it in? ( I mean what happens if they do something w/the computer settings, and the chip is still plugged in?).

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by BillyGman
( I mean what happens if they do something w/the computer settings, and the chip is still plugged in?).

Exactly.

Even if they're mod-friendly, if they don't know the chip is there, they might accidentally re-flash it...better to be safe.

OTOH, if they're THAT mod-friendly, I would hope they wouldn't do anything to your car without discussing it with you first, especially if they know you've done some mods already...

[Logan]

I always pull my chip going to the dealer. It just simplifies things...

[sailsmen]

Don't forget to leave the battery disconnected for 15 minutes before bringing it in.

With a 4 bank chip you may be ok on the reflash, but why take the chance.

Also w/out the chip tell them be carefull driving it @WOT because w/ the gears the shift points will be off. This is why I leave mine in and tell the SM there are several software versions, I am happy with mine so please make a note not to reflash it.

Please report back on the PI, I am considering it for a daily driver and want to know if it affects the drivability.

[BillyGman]

all of your replies guys. I appreciate it.

[jparrie]

Originally posted by sailsmen
Don't forget to leave the battery disconnected for 15 minutes before bringing it in.

With a 4 bank chip you may be ok on the reflash, but why take the chance.

Also w/out the chip tell them be carefull driving it @WOT because w/ the gears the shift points will be off. This is why I leave mine in and tell the SM there are several software versions, I am happy with mine so please make a note not to reflash it.

Please report back on the PI, I am considering it for a daily driver and want to know if it affects the drivability.

What exactly is the purpose for leaving it w/o power for 15 min?

One other question..... Say I have EEEC version CRD0, and I pull my chip and send it merrily to the dealer. He see's fit to update the EEEC to CRD1 while it's there.

Will I have problems when re-installing my chip, since I specified EEEC CRD0 when I had Dennis burn it?

TIA

Jim

[Glenn]

I just don't belive any Ford Dealer will upgrade your PCM without your knowledge. The normal fee for this type of service is about $100 if not covered by your warranty. You must have a good reason to even request an upgrade to your PCM to have it done for no charge. Many dealers just don't want to do this because you have an older code. This is not an automatic free service. You must specifically state a problem with the engine's operation. I believe most dealers charge Ford to do this under warranty if given a good reason by the owner.

We are very fortunate in Atlanta to have a great Ford dealer who really appreciates the MM. They are the Ford Performance dealer in Atlanta for every type of Ford performance product. Want to buy a 350 HP S/C Thunderbird with a Ford warranty - come to Atlanta.

Glenn

[RF Overlord]

Two comments:

Glenn, unfortunately some dealers HAVE been known to update the ECM without talking to the owner first, although it's usually in a good-faith effort to keep their customer's car up to date.

Jim, if the dealer DOES do an update, it's exactly that: an update to your CRD0 code. It will not change the base code, so your chip will work fine. The only time you would get a new base code is if your ECM were replaced. As far as leaving the battery disconnected, the ECM "learns" your driving habits and environmental conditions, so removing power erases all that and forces it to re-learn the data. This is useful if you've made a major change, like a bigger throttle body, higher-flow exhaust system, etc. It also clears any error codes which may have been set. It's not necessary to disconnect the battery just to remove or re-install your chip, just be sure the key is off.

[jparrie]

Thanks RF

[JET]

GMAN,
It's my understanding that the chip, itself, needs to be reflashed when you install the stall converter. I advise you yo speak to Dennis about this issue.

Good luck

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by marauder2306
GMAN, It's my understanding that the chip, itself, needs to be reflashed when you install the stall converter. I advise you yo speak to Dennis about this issue. Good luck

Just my .02c here, but I don't believe any changes in programming (chip or PCM) are required when installing the PI Stallion torque converter. What changes the chip adds to the tranny will carry over just fine.

The Stallion will transfer more power to the wheels, as much as 50% more in some cases, and that may cause you to want to change some settings in the PCM/chip for more efficiency, but that would be your choice down the road.

Having been throught this myself on two MMs, my advice is to install the TC and see for yourself, and before you attempt to fine tune the tranny through software, consider improving the hardware with the recommendations from Jerry W., you can read about here...

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/transmission/page1.shtml

The problems with the 4R70W intermediate clutch pack and snap ring can be addressed before it breaks, at minimal expense, maybe even undr warranty, but you'll get the same parts that are already failing. However, if you follow the prescription Jerry writes about, they will automatically be repaired and will not fail again, and you'll have one kick azz tranny to boot...IMHO.

[BillyGman]

for your replies. Dennis told me that the chip does NOT have to be re-burned when you add a new converter to the mix. my problem now is that the converter not only was a big hassle for the dealer to install(they had to take a hammer to it just to get it to slide on the splines of the input shaft) but now thse's something making a noise that can be heard when I have the passenger side window rolled down, and I think it's the converter! I intend to put it on the lift tomorrow in an attempt to locate for certain exactly where this noise is coming from. I'll have to have a friend in the car to rev it a little in gear and in neutral while it's on the lift while I'm standing underneath w/a radiator hose to my ear to figure this out. if it sounds like the converter, then another call to Precision Industries will be in order, and then I'll have to pull the converter off to send it back to them(if I can even get it off after the dealer hammered it on).

[RF Overlord]

The dealer HAMMERED your torque converter on??!!

Oy vey... :eek: :rolleyes:

[BillyGman]

they called me to inform me that it wouldn't fit and suggested that I call the manufacture(Precision Industries). So P.I. told me over the phone that their converters fit tighter over the splines than other converters do, and that the dealer just "isn't used to that" and they suggested that I give the dealer in question their number and tell them to call them for an explaination. I know that the dealer called since I checked back w/PI to make sure they did.
So the next day the dealer called me and told me that the car is ready. And when I talked to the mechanic, he told me this. So now I have 2 concerns:

#1. I dunno if I'm even going to be able to get the converter off!
#2. I suspect that the dealer will blame P.I., and that P.I. will blame the dealer. And me and my shallow wallet will be caught in the middle.:rolleyes:

BTW, I should point out here that MartyO told me that he was watching the mechanic install his P.I. Stallion T/C the whole time and his mechanic did NOT have any problems installing it. So I have no way of knowing weather P.I sold me the wrong converter, or the two mechanics at the dealer who installed mine are incompetent. This whole thing is very aggrivating to put it mildly.

[SergntMac]

BillyG, relax, it will all be okay.

The PI converter is a precision made device, input shafts are not as closely watched. Snug is okay, okay?

That noise you hear, that rattle or chatter while idling in neutral or park, is a normal condition with the PI converter. It's mentioned in your directions, page 14.

[gonzo50]

Originally posted by SergntMac
BillyG, relax, it will all be okay.

That noise you hear, that rattle or chatter while idling in neutral or park, is a normal condition with the PI converter. It's mentioned in your directions, page 14.
I would also be concerned if I heard noises that weren't there before, :confused: rattle or chatter is something I can do without.
I like the smooth idle it has now. IMHO. :D

[BillyGman]

I do appreciate your input cuz this is really aggrivating me. I've read page 14 like you've suggested, but the noise that my car is making is just the opposite. It doesn't make any noise in Park or Neutral(although there might be some slight vibration when I rev it, it's hard to tell) but the noise is only in drive beginning at 15MPH, and can be heard w/the passenger side window rolled down when I pass parked cars until I get up to 40MPH and then I can't hear it anymore which might simply be due to the increased road noise of the tires dronding out the converter noise(or what ever it is). i was supposed to look at the car on my brother's lift today, but he isn't home today, and he told me that it will have to be tomorrow.:rolleyes:
What really bothers me even more now is that on page 14 it says that if the noise is something other than what it describes, that it's due to faulty installation which probably caused damage to the pump!!!! So now I might have to be concerned w/pump diagnosis, and I have no idea what that involves. I'm wondering if the Trans has to be taken apart to diagnose or replace the pump. I mean what if the pump is damaged and I continue to drive the car that way? Won't the transmission be blown?

[SergntMac]

Damn, Billy, all you write doesn't sound good to me. Wish I could drive your MM and give you a hand with this problem solving. Best wishes to you, keep us posted, eh?

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by gonzo50
I would also be concerned if I heard noises that weren't there before, :confused: rattle or chatter is something I can do without. I like the smooth idle it has now. IMHO.

I agree with you, Gonzo, more undefined and non-specific noise isn't agreeable with me either. However, I've learned that to change this MM from OEM specs in any way has it's costs, and sometimes, "sound" changes.

I am constantly balancing that against the value of the mod, but I've not been disappointed yet. Muscle cars cost, how fast you want to go surely costs you something else in the mix.

Rather than say "been there, done that," which is a "pat-on-the-head," I CAN say I am here, now, doing this...And I remain unsure if what I am doing right now, is worth my doing it.

Free lunches are not free...eh?

[Zack]

It took me a while to get my converter on in my garage. It went on.

[BillyGman]

now that I have some of you very curious, and maybe even puzzled, I think I atleast owe you an update. This car has been driving me crazy(and maybe that's not such a far drive!), so I'm sorry if I've begun to drive some of you crazy too w/my posts, but I do appreciate the Marauder brotherhood here. Like I've told MartyO over the phone the other day, it seems that very often, you guys are the only ones I can turn to since my friends all think I'm nuts anyway for modifying a brand new car, and my brother thinks that also.
So w/out further delay, let me give you a partial update which is all I can give you until I get my car up on the lift or atleast on jackstands later on today:

The good news is this.....it doesn't sound like the converter at all. There are a few guys that I work w/who all have a lot of experience w/Hi-perf cars, and they went w/me out to lunch and one of them hung halfway out the passenger side window while I drove and located the noise as best that can be done w/out jacking up the car, and he said that it's coming from my right rear wheel. So that is VERY GOOD NEWS, cuz I was feakin out thinking I was gonna have to pull this new converter off. So later on today I might be able to tell you more after I take the wheel off. I'm thinking it might be those two clips that go over two of the five wheel lugs, or maybe the brake caliper. The only other thing I can think of at this point is the wheel bearing, but I'll see what I can find. I checked the lug nuts to see if they were loose but none of them were. If it's something easy, then I'll find it. But if not, then I'll just take it back to the dealer since it will be a waranteed part anyway. I want to especially thank Marty for putting up w/me on the telephone, and also Sarge for trying to help me figure out this aggrivating mystery, as well as everyone else who has participated thus far in this thread. I'll keep you guys updated. I've talked w/a guy who's into dragracing, and he said that all the really high dollar/serious high performance Torque converters go on very tight. Much tighter than any factory stock one does. Thanks again guys. I'll let you know what it is as soon as I find out for certain...... This board is the best!!!!!!

[martyo]

Originally posted by BillyGman
I drove and located the noise as best that can be done w/out jacking up the car, and he said that it's coming from my right rear wheel.

I believe that Mac knows more about this one than I do, but there is a TSB for an axle problem. What is your build date? The TSB affects cars in a specific build date range. Give us some more info here and we may be able to give you some more guidance.


Originally posted by BillyGman
I want to especially thank Marty for putting up w/me on the telephone....

Hey, no problem. I plan on getting repaid in free helicopter parts or something.....


Originally posted by BillyGman
This board is the best!!!!!!

Well, we knew that already!

[martyo]

Originally posted by SergntMac
Free lunches are not free...eh?

I always thought the saying was: There is no free launch.

[BillyGman]

I dunno if I can swing that one.....but to answer your question about the build date of my MM, I guess it's 10/02 assuming that the date on that white sticker that you see on the driver's side door when you open it is the build date. I'm a little surprised that the VIN# doesn't indicate the manufacturing date, but according to the Ford shop manual it doesn't. I checked out the noise w/the car off the ground and in drive. Although it can still be heard, it isn't as loud as it is when there's a load on the drivetrain, and weight on the wheel, so I dunno why that it is.My brother is convinced it's the brake pads, but I don't see how that can be since it also makes the noise while braking. I'm going to take one more look at it today, and if I can't figure it out, then the dealer will have to when I take it there tomorrow.

[RCSignals]

I think you are in the zone of that rear axle bearing TSB

[BillyGman]

since Marty mentioned it, but the noise it's making doesn't sound like a bearing at all. Doesn't bearing noise usually sound like a steady growling? This noise ir more like a tinny noise that cycles at about the same tempo as something that was stuck in your tire would. it begins at about 15MPH, and gets faster and faster until it vanishes just over 40MPH. One thing that I haven't ried yet is to remove that small center piece from the wheel to see if that stops the noise. it sounds like it is something small like that, but I guess that still wouldn't explain why it isn't as noticeable w/the wheels turning while they're off the ground, so ofcourse I'm still guessing at all of this. BTW, what does "TSB" stand for? And can I read about that on that "Blue oval news" website?

[Constable]

STEP BACK... I'll handle this one guys. TSB = Technical Service Bulletin.

Yep, yep, yep... aahhhhhhh. Ryan Hurley, Super Genius... at your service...

[BillyGman]

Okay, thankyou Constable. BTW, I don't know if this can possibly be related, but I've just used the emergancy brake for the first time since getting my car back from that dealer, and the pedal goes right to the floor now whereas before it wouldn't even go halfway down to fully engage the brake. Maybe this noise is coming from the emergency brake cable rubing something. I think it's time for me to get the car back on the lift.:rolleyes:

But for those of you who are interested, on a more positive note, this Stallion Torque converter works great! it has made the most difference in acceleration than anything I've done to this car! I'm going to start a new thread in the Community Forum about my new ET's and trap speed so look for it!

[MM03MOK]

Originally posted by Constable
STEP BACK... I'll handle this one guys. TSB = Technical Service Bulletin.

Yep, yep, yep... aahhhhhhh. Ryan Hurley, Super Genius... at your service... You were just waiting for that soft lob.
:lol:

[CRUZTAKER]

I would like to thank Billy for sharing this problem/concern, and Mac for his knowledge, and Marty for......well just being in the loop.

I have a Stallion just waiting to snuggle up to my tranny and I need ALL the forewarning I can get. This thread was particularly helpfull and insightfull to me as well.

Thanks.
-Barry

[BillyGman]

you should also know that the guy at Precision Industries told me that the best way to install the stallion Torque converter is to stand the transmission up, or get it verticle some way, and allow the weight of the converter to work in your favor while installing it onto the splines. He said that because the dealer mechanics who installed mine had problems doing so as do others since these converters do fit tighter than any stock converters do which I'm told is usual for any quality hi-performance converter. So if you're taking it to someone else to install it, then you might want to inform the mechanic there that this is what Precision Industries suggests for the installation procedure.

[Crown Vic]

What I did when I got my chip was get a same year computer also so my stock computer is minty fresh. :D