My ticking Marauder...

[TripleTransAm]

... is ticking no more. That's because it's currently sitting in a service bay at my dealership with 4.6 liters' worth of engine parts strewn across a multitude of workbenches.

The decision was made to pull the driver's side head and have a look at the valves, once it was found that a bunch of exhaust valves were demonstrating a little too much play within their guides and seats. In fact, according to the technician (pretty much one of only two that I will trust my car with), a couple were kind of 'wedged' into their seats, as if they had seated at an irregular angle, and required a slight "push" to get them to lift off their seat. Many looked carbon'ed up somewhat, but a couple had some serious wear marks on the valve stems, probably from worn or faulty valve guides.

Some carbon buildup on the combustion chambers, probably most likely due to the oil consumption that must have been occuring as oil seeped past the bad guides. This carbon might have also served to accelerate the guide wear. Ironically, we laughed about the fact that had I not been so easy on the engine, the carbon buildup might not have been as noticeable, even though the faulty valve guides would have eventually mangled up the valve stems pretty bad in the long run.

The tops of the pistons also showed some excessive carbon buildup, again probably related to that puff of smoke that is emitted from the exhaust after some startups.


The technician mentioned that it was almost as if cylinder 7 had overheated or was running hotter than the others, while inspecting the wear. Funny, I thought I read something in here about that sort of problem with Mustangs, in another thread a few months back. I'll do the search but I thought I'd bring that up right away.

Camshaft bearings and journals looked good, according to him. No signs of ugly wear at all. So one would think it's not a lubrication issue.

So I'm waiting on some further investigations before finding out what the recommendation will be. The option is either a new motor or a new head and set of valves (which will need machining by a third party). With the new motor, who's to say whether the replacement motor will be a knocker or a ticker after a few break-in miles, and with the new head option, who's to say I can trust a low-wage machinist to care about how good the valve guide/valve stem clearances are. *sigh*



So there you have it. Those of you with ticking driver's side valvetrains (that are not related to faulty catalytic converters) might have this to look forward to, in the future. The ticking may stay the same, but it will probably get worse, as the valves "rock" within their worn guides and get their stems chewed up. Those of you with puffing engines at startup might also get presented with the same outcome. Those of you with knocking engines... well, who knows what you're up against.



My first Ford, high-performance or not. If it isn't self-destructing trannies, it's wobbly valves and slicing harnesses. And considering 99% of my weekly 500 mile usage of the car is done at very easy engine loads, it does NOT leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling about this engine. It's the ONLY engine I've ever had torn apart (except for the 1st Honda I built out of 2 scrap cars, mentioned elsewhere). Yes, I'm angry.


We'll see what comes of this. As usual, I'll keep y'all posted with any info I gleam off the great tech who's working on my old ticker.

[merc406]

BlueOvalNews has more on that story.

[gonzo50]

Originally posted by merc406
BlueOvalNews has more on that story.
What would that web site be please, :D Thank you.

[Heavy D.]

TripleTransAm,
Sorry to hear about your engine problem. Gonzo50, The article merc406 is referring to is here:

http://www.blueovalnews.com/2003/powertrain/4.6l.cobracylhead.072903.htm

This is a great site in general - gives you the real skinny on what's going on at Ford.

[schuvwj]

Damn, this is definitely bad news. I just noticed the same noise, ticking, on my MM this week with 17,000 miles. I was hoping it was the new exhaust manifold or other exhaust leak related to the new manifold installation.

I did notice the Blue Oval news said this was a silent recall on 2003 Cobras. Aren’t our MM heads aluminum and the Cobra is cast iron? Maybe our MM valve guides are different.

[MapleLeafMerc]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
... is ticking no more. That's because it's currently sitting in a service bay at my dealership with 4.6 liters' worth of engine parts strewn across a multitude of workbenches.


Sorry to hear about your trouble. If Ford doesn't come through for you we'll start a flame war!


:flamer:

[TheDealer]

The Cobra and the Marauder don't share the same heads so I don't think the Cobra problem pertains to the Marauder. RAY

[DetGeno]

TTA how many miles do you have on your MM?

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by DetGeno
TTA how many miles do you have on your MM?


About 8750 very very easy miles. usually I'm just ****y-footing away from a stop sign or a light due to wanting to maximize comfort for my family. There is the occasional hot-dogging, but pretty much at 8/10s if not less aggressive. Very rarely will I put the pedal to the floor. That's just the fact of life with spending 500 miles a week on the road shuttling my son to his grandparents and going to work.

One visit to the drag strip. By then, I'm pretty sure it was already ticking. Numbers were good, power was all there and accounted for.

Puff of smoke at startup now and again.

Oil consumption unknown, gas consumption very acceptable.

Honestly, the tech wasn't able to tell me what I did wrong with this motor. These motors *should* be able to take a winding, according to the tech, so abuse is definitely NOT an issue to be pursued.


You know, if I had modified the little double-cammer and broke something in the aftermath of the increased power, yeah I'd fully understand. But sometimes even us bone-stockers can't win...

[jgc61sr2002]

Triple TA - Sorry to hear about your engine problem. Hope it gets resolved ASAP. Keep us posted.:(

[TripleTransAm]

Thanks for the supportive words, guys.

I keep asking myself if I did the right thing, going through with this 'investigation'. I could have kept quiet, ignored the smoke puff at startup now and again, blocked out the ticking sound from under the hood everytime I was around the car exterior with the engine running. I would have probably been enjoying the car instead of seeing it opened up in the service bay, with parts exposing casting numbers that should never see the light of day after assembly.

But when you get down to it... I paid > $43000 Canadian for this car (that's just over about $30k US) and I don't want a car that sounds like the all-original valvetrain on my 110 000 MILE 1978 Trans Am at hot idle. And to see the extent of wear and tear on the soon-to-be ailing cylinders had me wondering what would have happened over the winter, as my F-cars would be tucked safely away for the winter.

Oh well, I hope this odyssey is at least somewhat mildly entertaining to follow. I'll try to get photos taken tomorrow.

[Dr Caleb]

Dude, I'm shocked and saddened to hear this! IIRC, our cars were built around the same time...and I've had no problems yet!

I hope they put your ride back together better than it was!

I have to admit, I ride my car hard. I throw it into corners, I stomp on WOT whenver I get the chance - but I have no family to keep comfortable. I do it for me.

I've got 11,000 km on mine. It's warrantied for 7 years or 150,000km, so if it's going to break, like several have, I want it to break in the first year.

[SergntMac]

This 4V DOHC is almost a Hemi, and it should be treated like the Hemi of the late '60s. Beat it to death, it runs better. Carbon deposits are a death sentence, this engine loves hard work at high RPMs...IMHO.

[studio460]

Hey, Triple-T--sorry to hear about your woes . . .

As I've said before, I can hear the "tack-tack-tack" sound at idle when I lean near the driver's-side door. But yesterday, I noticed that I couldn't hear it. Has your "ticking" ever disappeared for a brief period? Or has it been constant since you noticed it? Thanks.

[MMManic]

Triple TA-

I've had a ticking since day one and I'm now at 1600 miles. I took my MM in for service immediately and was told the ticking noise is not the valves but the fuel injectors???? Is that believeable? The ticking can be heard inside the car with the windows up. The ticking is also much louder than any valve noise from my '97 Continental at 125,000 miles with the similar 4.6 DOHC. Can't say I've seen any smoke at startup. Am I a victim too?

[Dr Caleb]

Originally posted by MMManic
Triple TA-
Am I a victim too?

Have it checked. I can't hear my injectors even with the hood open.

Steve could hear the noise just by listening near his wheel well.

[Beadhead]

A light, intermittant ticking noise from the injectors is a well known issue with the 4.6 four valve engine. It is nothing to be concerned about. The heavy, constant valvetrain noise TTA experienced is a problem of a different order altogether.

[MMdriver03]

Thanks for the very informative post TTA. I hope all goes well for you and please keep us updated.

[studio460]

MMManic:

There was a thread a while back ago here that mentioned the fuel injectors as a possible (and normal) source of "ticking" noises.

Beadhead:

So, in your opinion, if my "tack-tack-tack" noise is only evident sometimes, it's probably just the injectors? Thanks.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by MMManic
I've had a ticking since day one and I'm now at 1600 miles. I took my MM in for service immediately and was told the ticking noise is not the valves but the fuel injectors???? Is that believeable? The ticking can be heard inside the car with the windows up.


Could be noisy injectors, sure. But to hear them from inside the cabin with the windows closed? Wow. Those are noisy injectors alright.

I gotta admit that the injectors on my MM are pretty silent. Or at least no noisier than any other of my FI'ed cars. Perhaps I got used to the timbre of injector ticks...

The ticking in my MM was a bit more metallic. Very similar to an exhaust leak. Or perhaps an older noisy valvetrain. I investigated a few other possibilities for this tick before deciding to have the engine opened up... I checked the cats for leaks as was mentioned by one member here, I honestly focused on the injectors as a possibility... and then when I initially asked to have it looked at, the technician confirmed it was coming from inside the motor. It wasn't an easy tick to track down, but with some dedication to the task (as was the case with my technician), the problem was narrowed down.

Gotta hand it to my favorite technician... he had the ticking down to the exact cylinder, as confirmed once the head was removed.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Dr Caleb

Steve could hear the noise just by listening near his wheel well.


Steve could hear the noise just by bloody standing in the driveway within 30 feet of the lousy car! :D

The "wheel well" reference is due to the fact it seemed to be coming from there. But make no mistake about it, it was audible from anywhere outside the car.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by SergntMac
This 4V DOHC is almost a Hemi, and it should be treated like the Hemi of the late '60s. Beat it to death, it runs better. Carbon deposits are a death sentence, this engine loves hard work at high RPMs...IMHO.


No doubt about it, these engines love to run hard and high. But a 60s Hemi is a 60s Hemi... modern engines don't carbon up that quick without having an oil-burning issue as a root cause.

If there's one thing this whole experience has proven to me, it's that the CRD1 PCM software does NOT have a plug fouling issue on its own. They all looked nice and the technician confirmed they were to his satisfaction.

[TripleTransAm]

The carbon buildup patterns on the piston, proving the rings are fine (it's not a circular carbon pattern) and that the oil deposits were coming from valve action.

[TripleTransAm]

The offending valve guides. The exhaust ones (on the right) were the worst, exhibiting signs of heat damage. Valve stem play within the guide was VERY noticeable, and was the direct cause of the ticking.

[TripleTransAm]

Nice spark plugs running on CRD1 PCM s/w. This is the front driver's side cylinder.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
No doubt about it, these engines love to run hard and high. But a 60s Hemi is a 60s Hemi... modern engines don't carbon up that quick without having an oil-burning issue as a root cause.

If there's one thing this whole experience has proven to me, it's that the CRD1 PCM software does NOT have a plug fouling issue on its own. They all looked nice and the technician confirmed they were to his satisfaction.

Yes, it's not a Hemi. Seems I misunderstood your want for 411.

BTW...Sorry to hear your laid up.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by TheDealer
The Cobra and the Marauder don't share the same heads so I don't think the Cobra problem pertains to the Marauder. RAY


Can you confirm this?

[Wags]

TTA,

My Marauder was the first Ford that I've ever had also. I have to admit that I'm disapointed with the car in general. Until I modifed it, it wasn't close to my Impala SS's ('95 and '96). In stock form, the Impala blows it away (IMHO). The unfortunate thing is, to get the car to perform the way that it should, you risk, and really void, your warranty. My car is a very early build (purchased 6/02), and I have the ticking sound also. My chip does not fix my cold start hesitations (brief, but still there), or the rough idle. (I'm sill looking through the code). Dealer's are clueless about this car. I think that more tranny problems will surface for people as well, as time goes by. If I wouldn't take such a bath on selling it, I really would most likely sell it. Sorry for the negative comments, but it is just the way I feel about the car (maybe it's just my diehard Chevy upbringing ;) .

just my .02

Wags

[Murader03]

Originally posted by SergntMac
This 4V DOHC is almost a Hemi, and it should be treated like the Hemi of the late '60s. Beat it to death, it runs better. Carbon deposits are a death sentence, this engine loves hard work at high RPMs...IMHO.

I've got to agree with Sarge here. The engines are similar but not excatly the same. I ran my '99 Cobra to 100K prior to trading it. The only time it was every taken apart was when Ford replaced the intake manifold and exhaust under the low horsepower issue. Otherwise, the engine was never touched. Oil and filter were changed every 5K as it was a daily road runner. It wasn't beaten to death, but it was dirven hard. The same holds true for my MM. It's not beaten to death, but it's a daily road runner. The MM has added mods the Cobra didn't have. Chip.plugs,gears, and soon to be installed MMDS. The only mods the Cobra had was a WMS 80MM MAF, and K&N thru the fender cold air kit. The Cobra still had the orginial brake pads, and clutch when traded at 100K. The MM now has 34.3K, and running strong and true.

[TripleTransAm]

What's reassuring about all this is that I really did want feedback on whether I did anything wrong with the car. Too many attempts at breaking the tires loose? Too many 5000 RPM romps? Too many highway speed downshifts?

My technician, who I am beginning to trust blindly with the way he has been a superstar, seems super confident that these motors can take the abuse. He says they should be able to rev to the sky (seems to jive with what was described in a Mustang dyno pull in another much earlier thread). To get this kind of confirmation from someone I respect to this degree, is enough to keep my MM interest level high. I'm also beginning to feel confident with some future 'bullet-proofing' modifications as far as this dealer goes...

Just a bummer that we, as dedicated and enthusiastic owners, have to be the ones to suffer along with the car's growing pains. A 'parts bin' car indeed, but if this was truly the case one would expect the reliability to be equal to the lowest common denominator among those parts. Instead, we have ticking motors, desintegrating transmissions, popping suspensions and alignment problems, and harness issues. The company needs to wake up and see where its company stock value is headed... and why...



Anyways, on a positive note: the car should be back together by mid next week, under a very very interesting approach that might suit me just fine. Be certain I will post all the details if this works out, because I'm sure it will benefit all of us tickers greatly, but for now I'll have to see how things work out.

[Long Live #3]

Can you hear the ticking when the hood is shut? Thanks.

[MMdriver03]

I could, it would come from the wheel well.tick tick tick

[Long Live #3]

To me it sounded like fuel injectors.

[schuvwj]

Because of the great information from Steve on this sig I started my cold MM today and watched the tail pipes, yes a big puff of blue smoke rolled out of the pipes for about 15 seconds then stopped.

So I went to my local F/M dealer today and explained my ticking sound and cold smoking problem to the salesman. I also mentioned the silent recall on 2003 Cobra valve guides which we was aware of, so we went to their Parts Department to see if the 2003 Cobra and MM share the same valve guide part number and they do! P/N F5AZ-6510-A. Damn!

So my MM is going to the shop on Tuesday for compression test!

[TripleTransAm]

I didn't want to let the cat out of the bag yesterday responding to the post about the heads being the same... someone claimed the heads were not the same as the Cobras. The parts list does not reflect this... so, I won't say anymore except "you figure out the rest".

Bill, your compression check will probably come out A-ok. The problem isn't (or shouldn't be) with the rings or valve seats, it's the guides. These are "out of the picture" once the valves are closed and things are being compressed (unless the guide has worn so bad that the valve won't seat properly, but that would be REALLY nasty).

If you'll wait a half-week or so, I should be able to report some interesting options for those of us with smoky startups and ticking driver's sides. Until then, I'm bound by a promise to keep quiet in case this leads to a dead end (which I don't believe will be the case).

[MMdriver03]

sounds like we might have a good excuse to mod the heads without penalty to the waranty. :banana2:

[schuvwj]

If you'll wait a half-week or so, I should be able to report some interesting options for those of us with smoky startups and ticking driver's sides. Until then, I'm bound by a promise to keep quiet in case this leads to a dead end (which I don't believe will be the case).

Thanks Steve I'll be waiting for your reply!

[Kelly]

Same here I'll be waiting for your updated post, thanks.

Kelly

[schuvwj]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
If you'll wait a half-week or so, I should be able to report some interesting options for those of us with smoky startups and ticking driver's sides. Until then, I'm bound by a promise to keep quiet in case this leads to a dead end (which I don't believe will be the case).

Steve I pulled my Denso plugs today and all they looked great except cylinder #7. The cylinder on the drivers side closest to the firewall. This Denso plug looked wet and black. So I put my old stock Motorcraft plugs back in, (all 8), and started it cold again like yesterday.

Guess what, no smoke coming from the tail pipes at all!

Engine ran very smooth!

I wonder if maybe the #7 Denso plug is bad since it smoked yesterday with them and not with the stock Motorcraft plug today?

Maybe since #7 is getting excessive oil from the bad valve guide it caused the Denso to fail?

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

[TripleTransAm]

#7 plug, eh? Coincidence? hmm..... ;)

I'd be inclined to recommend you keep a watch on that spark plug and any puffs of smoke on startup. Did your ticking go away after the spark plug change?

[schuvwj]

Steve, no the ticking did not go away after changing the plugs.
I'll check tomarrow to see if the oil burning at startup stopped.

Thanks!

[schuvwj]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
#7 plug, eh? Coincidence? hmm..... ;)

I'd be inclined to recommend you keep a watch on that spark plug and any puffs of smoke on startup. Did your ticking go away after the spark plug change?

Yes Steve, my MM did smoke this mroning when I started it with the stock plugs!

Dropped her off at the F/M Dealer today, they are going to call me tomarrow with the compression test results and recommended fix for the ticking and smoking problem.

This not good, soft valve guides and now I here we may have trany problems due to bad trany parts and improper assembly methods. What is next?

If FMC keeps this up its going to be trade time!

Thanks!

[TripleTransAm]

If everything is according to time plan, tomorrow the part(s) should arrive and I will post parts numbers once everything is tight and working fine.

[DEW34]

Steve what was the build date on your mm ?
mike

[TripleTransAm]

Feb 13 2003, if MMemory serves me correct.

[SILVERMARAUDER]

I have noticed the ticking from driver side with hood closed...but no white smoke but i am only at 4300 miles triple t what are miles on your MM

[mtnh]

He already stated 8750 easy miles with one drag strip visit included.

[67435animal]

Originally posted by SILVERMARAUDER
I have noticed the ticking from driver side with hood closed...but no white smoke but i am only at 4300 miles triple t what are miles on your MM

If you see any smoke on startup caused by valve related problems, it would be blue. White is normal as long as it goes away. If it does not go away, you have other problems...head gasket usually.

Bob

[schuvwj]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
If everything is according to time plan, tomorrow the part(s) should arrive and I will post parts numbers once everything is tight and working fine.

Steve did you get your parts and what was your out come?

Thanks!

[TripleTransAm]

First off, no more ticking. Some smoke on startup but it is now (according to my tech) what I was initially mentioning... part white (humidity) and part dark (running pig rich, as he described it). Since the plugs looked okay, I'd say the CRD1 software only runs pig rich at startup, but I digress.

I'm a little short on time so I'll be brief and expand later:

First off, the Marauder and Cobra (even this year's S/C) have the same heads. They have the same cams, valves, etc. Check out the parts numbers.

Second... if you replace your head with what Ford recommends, you get the same (faulty) head. Get your dealership to work out something where you will receive the part number quoted by BON regarding the cobra valve guides. The heads come pre-assembled so no machining required (ie. comes with valves, cams, rockers, etc.etc.etc.)... plug and play.

I think my dealer is going to try to push Ford to include the Marauder in the silent recall. However, make sure with your own dealer that you are receiving the new head, not the original part number.

While we were at it, a second knock sensor was installed and wired. Within a few weeks, we're going to try our own home made version of the 2004-retrofit kit, will report how it goes.

[TripleTransAm]

One more thing... got the car yesterday when I got back from a business trip (slept only 1.5 hours in 3 days... woo hoo!) and the car feels same as before. Nice and powerful.

No apparent increase in power, although it did seem to be able to squeal away from stoplights much more often than not. Probably just a by product of having the PCM unplugged all that time (it forgets it's adaptation calibrations very soon after electric power loss), I'll keep watching it for a few more days.

Nice to have a quiet idle under the hood once again...

[schuvwj]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
One more thing... got the car yesterday when I got back from a business trip (slept only 1.5 hours in 3 days... woo hoo!) and the car feels same as before. Nice and powerful.

No apparent increase in power, although it did seem to be able to squeal away from stoplights much more often than not. Probably just a by product of having the PCM unplugged all that time (it forgets it's adaptation calibrations very soon after electric power loss), I'll keep watching it for a few more days.

Nice to have a quiet idle under the hood once again...

Thanks Steve!
I am sure we'll all be waiting for answer on the new head and if your Dealer gets Ford to agree to include MM in the 2003 Cobra silent recall!

[MapleLeafMerc]

Glad to hear you're back on the road!

[Agent M79]

TTA,

Did they replace just the left side cylinder head with 3R2Z-6049-GA or both? Did they replace it with the alternate part number under warranty?

Any way to find out if the heads on the '04 are the same as the '03?

I am a little north of 1400 miles and either reading this thread is making me paranoid or I think I am hearing a ticking or clacking noise in time with the valve train. When I point it out, other people hear it too.

[Constable]

Steve-

I've been following this thread since the beginning. You've outdone yourself with the posts. Unfortunately, I share your "tick".

Mine began a few weeks after getting the car. It stayed pretty mellow until late August when it got a tad louder. Prior to modding the car, I took it in for service and requested that the dealer pay special attentiion to the noise. They assured me all was normal. I then dove in head first to the mods.

Now that the headers and exhaust has been built / installed, the "tick" is even more noticeable. Actually, I think it got a lot worse. I can hear it from any angle standing outside the car... up to about 20 feet away. It is loudest from the driver side fender well. Worst of all, I can hear it above the engine from 2500 rpm to about 4000 rpm.

I even had strangers ask me if I had an exhaust leak. It's horrible. I really hope I can get my dealer to do this work for me. After removing the stock cats and bolting those headers to the motor... they might tell me to go screw. Is there anything else I should know before attempting to speak with my Service Manager about this?? Any feedback from your dealer about the Cobra's "silent recall"??

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Agent M79
Did they replace just the left side cylinder head with 3R2Z-6049-GA or both? Did they replace it with the alternate part number under warranty?


They only replaced the driver's side head, which coincided with the TSB on the Cobra. According to the parts database at my dealer, both the Cobra S/C and the Marauder share the same heads. The factory wanted to replace the head with the same part number, my dealer fought to get the new part number. 14.56 seconds later, I have a fully functional FrankenRauder ;) (my new nickname for it).

Yes it was replaced under warranty.

About your ticking... don't be paranoid, there is a normal ticking involved with injectors because of their normal operation (small pintles shooting forth and retracting very quickly, many times a second in some cases). Also, Sarge pointed out to me an interesting source of similar noise which is the pulsating of the fuel rails as the injectors fire... I'd never heard that one but it surely makes sense.

In my case, it was very audible with the hood closed from several feet away from the vehicle (if you can hear it from behind the car, you know you've got issues). With the hood open, the ticking can definitely be localized under the driver's side valvecover at about the second to last cylinder on that side, counting from the front (or if you prefer, the second cylinder counting from the firewall). We heard it in another MM's engine bay at Hershey, it's unmistakable.

I should have taped the sound before the repair, for reference.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Constable
It is loudest from the driver side fender well. Worst of all, I can hear it above the engine from 2500 rpm to about 4000 rpm.


Interesting... I never noticed that 2500-4000 thing with my car, but perhaps I hadn't reached that same point. Or perhaps I didn't know any better, since I never owned a DOHC'er.

About the dealer thing... tough call. My first guess would be to find a dealer that is sympathetic to modded cars... anyone with half a wit (the imperial kind, not the smaller metric type) will put 2 and 2 together and realize the Cobra and Marauder share the same heads, so if you complain about the same problem, the same fix applies. And the same half wit will know that the "recall" does not mention owner abuse but rather faulty valve guides from the factory.

If you end up with less than a half-wit, I can see him refusing to work on it because it's been modded. Might even try to blame it on the mods (although you should have already had it on record that you mentioned the ticking previously).

If you do find a sympathetic service department, shower them with gifts of business (like, oil changes, buy all your parts through them even if it means higher cost, etc.). Be prepared to travel to such a sympathetic dealer and possibly eat the cost of a rental in the meantime, because you are treading on sticky turf.

I'm expecting to hear back from my genius technician tomorrow regarding some more investigations into this 2003/2004 knock sensor thing, I'll mention your plight and see if he has any more suggestions or ideas.

[Constable]

To clear up, I never heard the "tick" at the higher RPMs until I had the headers installed. I figure they're probably just amplifying the sound while the motor is under a load. (Don't know for certain, but it sounds like a decent theory!)

[TripleTransAm]

Could it be an honest-to-goodness header leak in conjunction with the valvetrain tick that is making it more noticeable at high RPMs? To have the headers amplifying the sound of a noisy valve or damaged valve seat would imply a great deal of noise to begin with... headers have to contend with a really big cacophony of noise due to combustion so hearing internal noises above all that is really something else.

[Agent M79]

I am back from the dealer.

It is apparently easier to hear the ticking from inside the vehicle. I can not hear it outside the vehicle or with the hood up.

Tech could hear it but refused to characterize it as anything, not even normal.

They "ran the sheet" for it (I assume they mean service bulletins) and came up with nothing.

Service Advisor advises they would like to schedule it for some testing and call "The Hotline".

They were either not wanting to discuss the situation or did not care to speculate without further testing.

I'll be getting a 2nd (maybe a 3rd) opinion ASAP.

[studio460]

Hmmm . . .

Thanks, Triple-T for your well-researched posts.

Facts:

1. I hear ticking.
2. I hear it loudest on the driver's side, near the wheel well.
3. It is audible from 20' away.
4. I have the same build date as Triple-T.
5. I have NO blue smoke on start-up (only some white vapor smoke).
6. Opened hood, listened over passenger-side valve covers--no ticking.
7. Opened hood, listened over driver-side valve covers--TICKING.
8. Ticking NOT audible from inside car.

NOW, what do I do?

[Dr Caleb]

Originally posted by NBC Shooter
Hmmm . . .

7. Opened hood, listened over driver-side valve covers--TICKING.

NOW, what do I do?

Normally, I'd say take it to your dealer, but I've noticed your (ummmm experiences?) with dealers in the past. :) Perhaps Steve can give you documentation as to his problems that your dealer can work from? Knowing Steve, he might have even recorded the sound that he experienced, which may be helpful to you...

I wonder if we can narrow this problem down to a few specific days of production? If your car and TTA's car were built on the same day with the same head problem...perhaps it was a delivery that day of faulty heads? Just in time delivery can have it's benefits!

Note, my car was built a month before both of yours, and does not have this problem...yet! :)

[Agent M79]

NBC Shooter,

My problem seems much more subtle than yours. Either I am on the leading edge of this thing and it'll worsen or it's just my imagination.

Like I said, I can hear mine best from inside the car. Also, it is more pronounced from idle until about 1500RPM. After about 1500RPM, regular engine noises overtake the tick/clatter noise.

The tech had me hold it at 1500RPM while he went under the hood. He started on the passenger side and quickly went over to the driver side and stayed there for a good minute or so.

While he wouldn't say much, they apparently told the service advisor it was worth a closer check.

[Dr Caleb]

M79, and old mechanics trick involves a long screwdriver.

Touch the screwdriver to an area where you think the sound is coming from. Put your ear to the other (not pointy!) end of the driver. Listen. Move it around, until you are real close to the source of the noise.

This should let you find out whether the sound is coming from the valves, from the exhaust or from an injector.

This also works with a stethoscope, but who has one of those around?

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Dr Caleb
This also works with a stethoscope, but who has one of those around?


I got one at Canadian Tire. Not too expensive either... regular stethoscope (2 ear pieces with tubes) with a long metal rod on the other end.

No, unfortunately I didn't think to record the sound... I should have, though. However, those at Hershey should recall the look on my face when I heard another MM with the same noise... definitely stays with you for a great deal of time. Maybe that person can videotape a quick walk around the car for us?

If the noise is only evident from inside the car, it could be the same problem that plagued another member of the board, that had an exhaust leak from one of the cat converters.

[Agent M79]

TTA,

Yes. I have had people suggest an exhaust leak and noisy injector. Either of these would be preferable to a bad valve guide.

The neighbs already look at me funny when I leaf blow the car to dry it so they shouldn't think much of my going at it with a stethoscope. Heh.

[AFSP13]

I finally was able to convince momentum to look into my engine ticking sound . the car went in last night . will post results

[studio460]

Well thanks everyone for your help . . .

I'm gonna try the "screwdriver trick," at least until I get my stethescope. But how do I convince the service technician to do anything about it? I think my new strategy for resolving this problem is to drive the s**t out of the car until everything breaks, and then get every damn defective part replaced and repaired under warranty. I've had so many "little" problems with my car, my service guy now has to take pictures of every little problem and have it "approved" by Ford. I'm sure the reply to the ticking problem will be, "Oh, that's normal!"

[martyo]

Originally posted by NBC Shooter
But how do I convince the service technician to do anything about it?

You could just let one of your model friends go in and do her "magic" on one of the service writers. That would work for me!

[Constable]

If they're not available, I'll send you some of my mascots... Marty can confirm their "OK, I'll fix that right away" factor.

[martyo]

Originally posted by Constable
If they're not available, I'll send you some of my mascots... Marty can confirm their "OK, I'll fix that right away" factor.

Oh yeah! :D

[Agent M79]

<whew> No terminal ticking problem, per frdwrnch. Most likely some noise transmitting into the cabin because of something loose or improperly routed. Will chase it down later.

Thanks everyone! Thanks frdwrnch!

[Constable]

I stopped in and spoke with my trusty technician today. He's got a heavily modded Lightning and does all it's "warranty" work at the dealer himself. He is very sympathetic to my cause. I explained the Cobra / Marauder head situation to him. He agreed that it'd be best to keep everything low-key for now and see if Ford will include the MM in the service bulletin. I'm going to check my headers for any possible leaks (maybe the 2500 rpm to 4000 rpm noise is an exhaust leak?). If I can take care of that, we'll see about taking care of the idle "tick". If the header gasket is leaking, I'm going to replace both with copper gaskets. I'm also upgrading the gaskets at the rest of the joints in the system. I'll post further when progress is made.

[Constable]

OK... The 2500 - 4000 rpm noise is the pass. side header gasket. I ordered a new one and will have it installed next week. My tech called me an hour ago and let me know somethings that we already covered here: heads and valve guides are the same on 03 Cobra and Marauder. The parts manager and my tech are secretly working on trying to get my "tick" included in the recall as well. SOOO... if Steve comes through up there in Canadia, the rest of you should be seeing some kind of recall for our cars soon.

[studio460]

Facts Part II:

1. No ticking heard through either tailpipe (had ear about a foot away while car was idling).
2. Ticking virtually inaudible at driver's wheel well after engine was driven 20 miles, and reached operating temprature.

Whaddya think, Triple-T? Does the lack of audible ticking at the tailpipe lead to a benign conclusion? Thanks for your help. By the way, good work, Constable, keep us posted!

[TripleTransAm]

Didn't ever hear any valvetrain noise through the exhaust... would be scared if I did, though, there are a LOT of obstacles to that kind of high frequency noise in the exhaust path! ;)

However, by the time I got the work done on my car, the ticking was there at all times, audible from around the car, more audible from the driver's wheel well. I can't recall if it started as a cold-only tick and eventually grew to all temperatures, but my tech did notice it was *slightly* louder when stone cold (I never noticed it, but I trust him).

I supposed the best thing then is to look for the source of the tick, and then watch it to see if it gets worse. It might just be a loose exhaust joint that seals better when hot, it might be the valve guide, it might be excessive tolerance in some rocker arm, etc... best to keep an open mind and study how it progresses.

In the meantime, be happy that it goes away when hot! :up: