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DOOM
05-20-2009, 08:49 AM
I want to put a shift kit on the beast.
What are you guys running?
Im thinking about doing a TRANS GO shift kit (the same one sherman is running)
But i dont see any vendors here selling them. :help:

Embassy
05-20-2009, 08:59 AM
Jerry W. has long advised against shift kits. The reasons why have long been discussed on CVN and the Thunderbird forum.

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/index.html

A tune and/or the j-mod are better options. Others can chime in with more as well.

DOOM
05-20-2009, 09:06 AM
I already have the J-mod done.
I see members drag racing and tearing up transmissions
I thought a shift kit would help this problem. Am i wrong? :confused:

ctrlraven
05-20-2009, 09:51 AM
Getting a trans built to handle racing will fix the problem lol.

DOOM
05-20-2009, 10:08 AM
Getting a trans built to handle racing will fix the problem lol.

Isn't that what cheeseheadbob did?

I hope he chimes in on this :D

merc
05-20-2009, 10:13 AM
Briscoe Transmissions

1014 Highams Ct
Woodbridge, VA 22191
(703) 491-9942‎

O's Fan Rich
05-20-2009, 10:53 AM
Briscoe Transmissions

1014 Highams Ct
Woodbridge, VA 22191
(703) 491-9942‎

Who dat? Why did you post them up? For builds? For J-mods? For tunes?

Is this where Bob went?

mpearce
05-20-2009, 11:08 AM
I see members drag racing and tearing up transmissions

Who? What power level are they at? Who tuned their MM?

merc
05-20-2009, 11:14 AM
Who dat? Why did you post them up? For builds? For J-mods? For tunes?

Is this where Bob went?

That's were Sherman and Bager got there transmission fixed. He also does the trans go kit install.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=TRG%2DAODE%2D3&N=700+400214+115&autoview=sku

O's Fan Rich
05-20-2009, 11:15 AM
That's were Sherman and Bager got there transmission fixed. He also does the trans go kit install.

Ahhh HA!!!

Thanks, Mark.

Pops
05-20-2009, 11:16 AM
Better make sure he is not using the Microsoft options Rich!:D

Krytin
05-20-2009, 11:44 AM
I already have the J-mod done.
I see members drag racing and tearing up transmissions
I thought a shift kit would help this problem. Am i wrong? :confused:

The J-mod is a shift kit or does the same thing as "kit" does.
A manual valve body and/or upgraded internals is the next step for you!

ctrlraven
05-20-2009, 12:01 PM
Isn't that what cheeseheadbob did?

I hope he chimes in on this :D
I believe CheeseheadBob went to Muscle Car Garage in Joppa and had them rebuild it.

Dennis Reinhart
05-20-2009, 12:06 PM
I want to put a shift kit on the beast.
What are you guys running?
Im thinking about doing a TRANS GO shift kit (the same one sherman is running)
But i dont see any vendors here selling them. :help:

I personly would not use the tran go shift kit, the best proven mod is the J Mod with a good rebuild if needed.

DOOM
05-20-2009, 12:52 PM
The reason I said trans go shift kit is because Sherman uses it and proves that it works well.
I'm just trying to get a feel of what options are out there for me.

O's Fan Rich
05-20-2009, 12:55 PM
The reason I said trans go shift kit is because Sherman uses it and proves that it works well.
I'm just trying to get a feel of what options are out there for me.

Then you better put two in.... if you want beat Sherman!!!






:lol:

Cheeseheadbob
05-20-2009, 01:11 PM
Doom, I had a complete OEM rebuild. They did beef up the clutch plates, whatever that means, and it pulled like a ***** ape the first time I ran. It still shifts very hard 1-2, 2-3. I try not to drive with the OD on, but with 4:10 gears, it gets a little loud at 80 mph, so I engage OD for a spell. I'm glad I could muddy the waters for you...:D
Isn't that what cheeseheadbob did?

I hope he chimes in on this :D

DTRMiguel
05-20-2009, 01:28 PM
Doom, I had a complete OEM rebuild. They did beef up the clutch plates, whatever that means, and it pulled like a ***** ape the first time I ran. It still shifts very hard 1-2, 2-3. I try not to drive with the OD on, but with 4:10 gears, it gets a little loud at 80 mph, so I engage OD for a spell. I'm glad I could muddy the waters for you...:D

I think the term "beefing the clutches" is when they add more rings or whatever they are called into the actual clutches but i could be wrong

Pops
05-20-2009, 01:31 PM
Hardened input shaft.

Marauderjack
05-20-2009, 02:32 PM
Hardened input shaft.

Hardened stub shaft WILL break other parts!!!!:eek:

My J-Mod is very snappy and if you want more....increase line pressure but in my case that was waaay too much!!:shake:

BTW, hard shifts are very dangerous in the rain....ESPECIALLY SURPRISE DOWN SHIFTS!!!:eek::argue:

Zack
05-20-2009, 02:38 PM
Doom, did the springs get taken out when the J-Mod was done?

merc
05-20-2009, 02:40 PM
Hardened stub shaft WILL break other parts!!!!:eek:

My J-Mod is very snappy and if you want more....increase line pressure but in my case that was waaay too much!!:shake:

BTW, hard shifts are very dangerous in the rain....ESPECIALLY SURPRISE DOWN SHIFTS!!!:eek::argue:

Where did you read that. Lidio and I think Dennis has used hardened stub shafts for years with no problems. I have had a 300m shift in my car for 11 months.

http://www.silverfoxtrans.com/silverfoxtrans.com/TM_4R70W-700.html

Marauderjack
05-20-2009, 02:54 PM
One of the best trans builders in the business told me NOT to use a hardened shaft Mark......and I listened!!:beer:

BTW, I don't do burnouts or drag race so perhaps that inspired the instructions...dunno, but I had 160K on the OEM (76K with the blower) and 38K on the rebuild...and so far all seems to be well!!:rolleyes:

Good Luck!!:beer:

merc
05-20-2009, 03:04 PM
One of the best trans builders in the business told me NOT to use a hardened shaft Mark......and I listened!!:beer:

BTW, I don't do burnouts or drag race so perhaps that inspired the instructions...dunno, but I had 160K on the OEM (76K with the blower) and 38K on the rebuild...and so far all seems to be well!!:rolleyes:

Good Luck!!:beer:

The stub shaft has been a problem for some on this site. I broke one last year and debated with Darrin about moving to the 300m. He explained that if I break this time parts will be flying. He also recommended I get a transmission blanket to protect me.

Lidio said this not too long ago

The trans is the stock type 4R70W or 4R75W. Either way, its been gone thru by my local trans guy, who has a pretty good handle on these when we install them behind 600+ late model supercharged mod motor's.

If you wondering how the trans will live up to this... I've learned even more about how to get these overdrives to live behind this type of power in the last year and half then ever before. We were finding that in heavy high powered cars like the MM's, these transmissions were always breaking the "stub shaft" in the trans which would result in a loss of 3rd and 4th gears. It would usually happen when shifting into 3rd at WOT.

What we've learned to do with them now is actually soften the 1-2 shift, and soften even more the 2-3 shift at WOT. And also, we've started to embrace and use the factory's ability to do "torque reduction" in the tuning for the split second that it takes for the shift to complete. When the TQ reduction is used in conjunction with softer shift pressures, it deceivingly gives the impression of a very quick and normal shift. But greatly reduces the harshness and shock that is subjected to the hard parts of the trans. So far this has proven to work quite well on lots of MM's, F-150's and even some Mustangs too.

Marauderjack
05-20-2009, 03:14 PM
Yep...Darrin told me this and it seems you have a wealth of knowledge and experience to share!!:beer:

Torque modulation is better than breaking things and it sounds like you got it figgered out!!:bows:

Good Luck racing this season Mark!!:beer:

Darrin
05-21-2009, 08:46 AM
When any of those who say to use a hardened stub shaft have these transmissions that they built in several cars running mid and low 9 seconds... Well, maybe then they might have a valid opinion. Until then I view their opinion only as a way for them to sell another part that they offer.

I am not that person. My conscience won't let me be.

Fortunately some of these people know how to turn down some things in the tune so that full power isn't going through the transmission if they don't know how to fix the problem while others know how to tune the real problem out completely. 'Turning it down' isn't the way I do things. Why have a killer setup and limit it? And, why fix the problem and still sell someone a part for that problem that they don't really need?

Doesn't make sense to me.

It's a fact guys. There is no debating it. The stub shaft isn't the problem, it's just the weakest link and fortunately it breaks easily when you need it to.

The real problem isn't in the transmission at all. The problem is when the computer commands that 3-4 WOT or near WOT shift into overdrive and it happens before the forward clutch can fully exhaust. That puts the transmission into a dead bind and either the weakest link will break or you will burn up the forward clutch or overdrive band. When you have a properly built transmission that has a forward clutch and overdrive band that will hold instead of slip and that shift happens... BOOM!!!!

I think those hardened stub shafts are dangerous and willingly using them is stupid. They don't fix anything at all and instead they may cost you your legs or your life if something goes wrong.

Fix the tune and the problem of breaking the stub shaft goes away. This is the correct answer. The tuner who tuned Mark's car fully admitted that it was his fault and not the fault of the transmission when this happened on that car. If the tune hadn't allowed that shift then the stub shaft would NEVER have broken. That's a fact.

None of the 9 second cars that I have built transmissions for has anything other than a factory hardened stub shaft in them and neither does the one car that is dipping into the 8's that I built the transmission for. Nor do any of the stupid high horsepower super heavy 4x4 trucks that I provided transmissions for.

Why? Because those super hard shafts are dangerous, that's why. I don't want a customer of mine losing his car, any of his body parts or even his life becasue of a stupid choice I made, so I won't use them unless I am forced to and the customer is completely informed about the danger.

Imagine heading down the track at the big end and having the rear wheels lock up in the transmission fluid that was dumped on them when the transmission came apart. Doesn't sound like any sort of fun to me.

Darrin

Darrin
05-21-2009, 08:56 AM
There is a valid point in this thread about these shafts though. In part of 03 and 04 there were some factory hardened stub shafts that were 'defective' and would break WAY easy. I think that may be the reason for some confusion about this.

Darrin

Fahad_H
05-21-2009, 10:17 AM
Darrin,

So, the solution is not to go into 4th while WOT?

What can I do for the tune to make it safer for the trans?


Thanks a lot,

Fahad_H
05-21-2009, 10:17 AM
**deleted**

Fahad_H
05-21-2009, 10:25 AM
**deleted**

Darrin
05-21-2009, 04:27 PM
Darrin,

So, the solution is not to go into 4th while WOT?

What can I do for the tune to make it safer for the trans?


Thanks a lot,


Have the tuner set it up properly and always try and make sure the OD cancel in in play when you are running it hard at high speed.

Darrin

DOOM
05-21-2009, 04:36 PM
I think im going to go the route cheeseheadbob went.
Have muscle car garage build up my trans.
Bobs car is wicked! :rock:

Fahad_H
05-22-2009, 02:34 AM
Have the tuner set it up properly and always try and make sure the OD cancel in in play when you are running it hard at high speed.

Darrin

Thanks a lot,

RF Overlord
05-27-2009, 02:56 PM
I personly would not use the tran go shift kit, the best proven mod is the J Mod with a good rebuild if needed.


The reason I said trans go shift kit is because Sherman uses it and proves that it works well.
I'm just trying to get a feel of what options are out there for me.While I'm certainly not qualified to contradict Sherm and/or his son, if they're the same ones I met at the track at MV5 (the son had an AWESOME Thunderbird SuperCoupe), you might want to read this (http://forums.modulardepot.com/showthread.php?t=4121), written by none other than Jerry Wroblewski (the "father" of the 4R70W and the "J" in j-mod) concerning TransGo shift kits. Scroll down to post #8 by SCT Guy (that's Jerry).

johnnyrauder
05-27-2009, 03:23 PM
the art carr rebuild kit is what your lookin for call d/rinehart i was cherpin 1st to 2nd
with just atune

DOOM
05-27-2009, 05:04 PM
the art carr rebuild kit is what your lookin for call d/rinehart i was cherpin 1st to 2nd
with just atune

My car does that now WITHOUT a shift kit.

CBT
05-27-2009, 06:56 PM
my car does that now without a shift kit.

boo-yaaaaaa!!

Ford_w/loctite
05-28-2009, 04:54 PM
My two cents:
First off, if you're "scared" of wrecking your car due to quick shifts (Afterall, that's what a shift kit does, it makes them quicker not harder), then you might as well sell me your car & go buy a front wheel drive p.o.s. cause you shouldn't be driving a piece a american iron.

Second, I read Jerry's article, and no offense to the man (I have never personaly met him), but it sounded like an upset parent. And "Transgo" was messing with his baby. I have been using their kits for years, and have had no problems.

Now for the meat - I installed a TRANSGO HD2 shift kit in my 03' 300A when the clock read approximately 65,000 mi. The only other performance mod currently on my car is a JLT cold air kit. Since then the car has just passed 90,000mi. That's 25,000 miles of a mixture of freeway & city driving. The fluid still looks & smells great. Not to mention it hasn't used a drop.

As a final note - I love how it shifts! At part throttle she's tame, but when you open her up she snaps your head back! There are 3 members of this site that have been in my car and can contest to this. :beer:

Josh
03' 300A
86' Cutlass - "Sweet Cheeks"
74' El Camino - I luv my 327
68' F-250 - Can you say "Big Block"

DOOM
05-28-2009, 05:16 PM
Well I'm not scared that's why I asked the question in the first place.
I wanted feedback and you are the 2nd person I know of that's happy with a transgo kit.
Thank you :beer:

Ford_w/loctite
05-28-2009, 05:23 PM
Well I'm not scared that's why I asked the question in the first place.

I wasn't directing that at you. Just poking at the ones who are. :D


:burnout:

Dennis Reinhart
05-28-2009, 08:45 PM
My two cents:
First off, if you're "scared" of wrecking your car due to quick shifts (Afterall, that's what a shift kit does, it makes them quicker not harder), then you might as well sell me your car & go buy a front wheel drive p.o.s. cause you shouldn't be driving a piece a american iron.

Second, I read Jerry's article, and no offense to the man (I have never personaly met him), but it sounded like an upset parent. And "Transgo" was messing with his baby. I have been using their kits for years, and have had no problems.

Josh
03' 300A
86' Cutlass - "Sweet Cheeks"
74' El Camino - I luv my 327
68' F-250 - Can you say "Big Block"

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Berlin, WI
Posts: 16

I am sorry but I personly take offense on your 16th post here, you have no clue as to who Jerry W is, who do you think drove and tested the very first Marauder, and who did all the drive line calibration for the Marauder??.

The man was the Ford top EEC and drive line specialist, after that he worked for Jack Rouch doing all the drive line calibration, on every new Ford coming out. Jerry started SCT, he has probably forgot more about the 4R70W than most people know.

But I respect your opinion on your preference with trans go shift kit, I think there not needed, its your car and your opinion, I just simply take offense to your remark about a man that you know nothing about and that knows more about this car and transmissions, than you or any one else that I am aware of.

I am sure Darrin will concur and about ten thousand or more people that have benefited from Jerry's help and in depth knowledgewould agree with me.

Marauderjack
05-29-2009, 05:29 AM
Everyone I have discussed trans mods with advised against Trans-Go kits but also say they do accomplish the same goals of quick/hard shifts. They do it with mechanical changes that ultimately shorten the life of the transmission.....Dennis or Darrin can elaborate if they like??:cool:

The J-Mod actually lengthens trans life under normal driving conditions.....racing and burnouts can break anything!!:help:

If Jerry W. had his way with Ford, some fashion of the "J-Mod" would have gone out of the factory in every car.......purely for durability!!:beer: Unfortunately MOST folks don't like snappy shifts and prefer smoooother "slushy" shifts that cause accelerated wear??:rolleyes:

I have to say I'm with Dennis on this one!!:burnout:

Fahad_H
05-29-2009, 05:32 AM
What I liked about my J-Mod without removing the springs, is smooth and fast shifts.

Darrin
05-29-2009, 06:08 AM
Actually several of the things that Jerry said to do were implemented in the newer transmissions. The same path was taken without going far enough to get drivability complaints.

I have seen TransGo kits installed properly and working the way the customer wants. My issues with them are that the kits are not designed in a way that actually use all of the built in features of the transmission. Certain components are bypassed completely for no good reason other than they apparently didn't know any other way.

Also, installing one of their kits forces you to make modifications to the valve body that cannot be undone. If you choose to "go back" for any reason you are screwed and will have to buy a new valve body. Again, there is no reason for this other than they must not have known any other way.

My opinion is that their kits are more based off of what they knew about the AOD and when they found a way to make changes that worked to meet their goals they stopped and marketed it.

I don't think they are junk, but I don't see why anyone would spend more money to do more work to get less results and that forces you into doing things that destroy the valve body for anything other than that one kit.

That just never made any sense to me at all.

Darrin

RacerX
07-22-2009, 10:15 AM
Hey everyone! I'm picking up my 2003 MM next tuesday and one of the first mods wil be the Transgo hd2 SK. I currently have a 95 NA TBird that I put that exact same kit into five years ago and it still lights them up when I hit second on WOT. B@M Synthetic Mercon-v. The 4R70W can take a hell of a beating and keep going strong. So even by 2003 they never changed the stock 1-2 accumulator piston??? Well, hurry up tuesday...:D