Stealerships

[duhtroll]

OK, so we bought my wife an 09 Escape XLT yesterday. Dealership in town had a chance at the sale on Thursday since they will be doing any service it needs. They had one we liked so I made an offer on Tuesday last week while visiting the dealership a few blocks from our house.

I'm pretty thorough on buying cars so after the research I've done I can get an accurate offer now in only a matter of minutes (this process saved me $7500 off sticker on the MM in 03 and about $3600 on the Escape). I ran all the numbers and made an offer that gave the dealer 3% profit on the vehicle. They refused it outright... which happens, no big deal. Just gotta find a dealer that will accept the offer, which is easy to do if you're persistent.

I was lied to about 9 times in 5 minutes by the local guys. Among the lies were:

"This is the only one with what you want on it available."

"We would lose money on your offer - it is way too low and the dealership would have to close if we sold cars at that price."

"There is not much markup on this vehicle - certainly not that much."

"We can't trade another dealership for another one like this because they will keep the holdback."

"Your insurance company's GAP coverage is not as good as our GAP coverage is."

"The extended warranty is cheaper here than anywhere else."

"Want a lower payment? Lengthen the loan. The amount will be the same."

(This is my wife's car so she is making the payments - I just helped with the down payment.)

I said enough for one night and we left, without budging off our offer. Sales guys hate the walkout. The following day I get an email and I inform them we are way too far apart on price so I was going to keep shopping. They come down a bit, but still not enough for me.

So after a bit more haggling I decide I would rather pay a little more here than drive out of town and add a couple hundred to my offer. They agree on the price and ask us to come pick it up, but it was 7:30 and we weren't going to be able to make it by 8:00 (closing) so we set an appointment to close the deal the following afternoon.

Tomorrow arrives and I am making the call to confirm the appointment and tell them to pull their advertising decals, etc. off the car before I get there, when I am told they sold the Escape we wanted "last night." Yes, in the span of the 20 minutes between me hanging up the phone and closing time, they "sold it." :bs:

Being plucky like I am, I grab the wife and we head over to the dealership. It is not on the lot, but they have another store in the neighboring town. We drive the 10 minutes and there it is, sitting on the lot, sticker still in the window. In other words, the sales manager just wanted to renege on the deal.

We already knew of 13 other Escape XLTs around the state and we already had one lined up as "next" at a dealership in a suburb of Des Moines, 2 hours away. I am pretty thorough as I said before so I figured I would try my offer on them. They were having an invoice sale and their tag on the vehicle was only $100 higher than the offer I was about to make, so we bought the Escape over the phone in about 10 minutes.

Exactly 7 minutes after I put the deposit on the one we purchased, the phone rings. It is the sales guy from dealership #1 apologizing saying "he just found out" it was sold. My wife answered the phone so she laughed at him and told him not to bother with the story - we had seen it. I was not privy to the response but it was something like "I'll have to check into that."

Then he graciously offered to find another one with our specs. She told him to not bother as we had purchased one already at a competing dealer. He couldn't believe that in the short span of 45 minutes we had found another vehicle and purchased it.

"Yes, we certainly did, and for less money. Oh, this one has a moon roof, too. It's really too bad you guys missed out on the sale. Oh well. I'll see you guys the first time I need warranty work."

Have I mentioned I love my wife?

So yesterday we made a day of driving to get my wife's new Escape and also had some great Mexican food along the way.

Anyway, WTF is up with dealers? Do most people really believe the crap they spew?

I think in town dealers are tougher on residents, thinking you will not be willing to drive out of town for a car. I think they give deals to people from out of town, thinking they will be "stealing" a sale. Every time I have bought a car it has been a better offer to drive a hundred miles, no matter where I am when I start.

[Dr Caleb]

:up:

Nice ride!

And, yes, I think they do believe the crap they spew.

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

FLM dealers are jokes, and definitely not what I'd call professional. The only ones I've seen decent at time of sale are the ones that are far from home, so I guess you're right.

[Bluerauder]

OK, so we bought my wife an 09 Escape XLT yesterday. ..... Sales guys hate the walkout. ..... In other words, the sales manager just wanted to renege on the deal.


Anyway, WTF is up with dealers? Do most people really believe the crap they spew?

Nice choice .... she'll love it. My daughter loves her '09 Escape. Did you get the "Sun & Sync" option package?

I always retain the ability to "Walk Out" at any time. This is really the only leverage that you have. I've been within $100 of my price and the sales manager still wants to play games. "You are not gonna let $100 ruin the deal are you?" My response as I start lifting out of the chair "You testing me?" Of course, they met my number.

I do not do business with Liars and Unethical people. Moving that car, reneging on the deal, and an saying they sold that car puts them in the liar category. Not sure that I would trust warranty or any other work from them.

Most sales people that I have run across are not very knowledgeable of their products, the financing procedures, or the policies of the dealer. Most are at the mercy of the sales manager. Therefore, some of them may actually believe some of the :bs: lines that they feed customers because they have already bought the line from the boss. I think generally it is more ignorance than outright deceit by salesman.

Good luck with the Escape.

[duhtroll]

Yep - sun n'sync

It is tough to fit any passengers in the car with the boy band taking up all the seats though.


Nice choice .... she'll love it. My daughter loves her '09 Escape. Did you get the "Sun & Sync" option package?

I always retain the ability to "Walk Out" at any time. This is really the only leverage that you have. I've been within $100 of my price and the sales manager still wants to play games. "You are not gonna let $100 ruin the deal are you?" My response as I start lifting out of the chair "You testing me?" Of course, they met my number.

I do not do business with Liars and Unethical people. Moving that car, reneging on the deal, and an saying they sold that car puts them in the liar category. Not sure that I would trust warranty or any other work from them.

Most sales people that I have run across are not very knowledgeable of their products, the financing procedures, or the policies of the dealer. Most are at the mercy of the sales manager. Therefore, some of them may actually believe some of the :bs: lines that they feed customers because they have already bought the line from the boss. I think generally it is more ignorance than outright deceit by salesman.

Good luck with the Escape.

[LOWBUCKMM]

i have bought about 5 cars at dealers and not one of them in my own town. i dont like the way the in town dealers treat in town people. i could not ever get a good deal on a car but, only if i leave town. the way i think of it is that the out of town dealers dont want you to leave with out the sale because, you would not want to drive back out there for them non dealing people.

[n00bkiller944]

Cool car! I'm trying to convince my mother to buy ford and I think the Escape may have won her over!

[CBT]

They got to make a living, too! Greedy mofo's that they are, can't blame someone for trying to make a buck now can we?

[J D]

Heh, reminds me of how I got my MM, nothing but greedy dealers trying to pass on MMs with obvious defects. There was this one out on Staten Island where all the reps thought they had the market cornered and they were the only ones to deal with. Technically they WERE the only large FLM on staten, but for not budging on price and giving me the run arround, I got the last laugh when they called two weeks later to goad me into trying to buy their last of originally two availible MMs. Sick of the crap I was getting in the city, I'd driven 150 miles to Penn to get my MM with less miles, and a cheaper price from a family run dealership. Great people out there, and great country too, never had such fresh air in those foothills.

[rumble]

More times than not it's simply the fact that you're dealing with an idiot. Many (not all) dealerships work on the premise that every 2-3 months they fire the bottom third of their sales force and replace them. This usually means that at least a third of the salespeople
are rookies who really are in a sink or swim learning mode. Many times they really don't know either the car or the business. This also means that they must rely on the sales manager to guide them and he may be a JERK. Hence the stupid things that get passed along to the customer.

One piece of advice I would give is to call and ask for the SM, tell him you're interested in such and such but you want to talk to the salesman with most experience. When you get him on the phone ask him what they feel they have to make on a car and how much above "cost" (NOT invoice) they will sell it for.
He will have a gross profit that he will need to get, of course, but if you come across as a knowledgeable straight shooter he may deal honestly with you. You can explain that you realize they need to make a certain amount of profit on a car and if he will work with you then "we won't try and insult each other with ridiculous offers back and forth." You can check on Edmunds.com for the actual cost and TMV of the car to see if you're being lied to. Don't be surprised if they try and "bust you" on the options so be sure and check the price of them too.

I've been in the employment of Dealerships for many, many years and this will work a lot of times assuming you have a dealership that's at least half way honest. The other REALLY important thing is to wait until the very last 2-3 days of the month to finalize the deal. That's when dealers are trying to make their quota and many times they will even sell a car below cost to get numbers on the board to reach the "factory money" (AKA trunk money) quota. This is a number the factories will many times set for dealers to reach in that months sales and if they achieve it then the factory gives them thousands of extra dollars that goes right to their bottom line. This means that in these situations they don't care what, if anything, they make on those sales just as long as the make their number.

Good luck!

[duhtroll]

Much of what you said here, I already do. We bought the car on the 30th and we offered a fair 3% profit on the sale. I'm all for people making a living but that is all they really need from me. I'm not out to screw the dealer over - I want Fords to be around for a good long time. I just don't want to do it with unnecessary coin from my pocket.

I use edmunds.com also but fightingchance and invoicedealers are a bit more accurate.


More times than not it's simply the fact that you're dealing with an idiot. Many (not all) dealerships work on the premise that every 2-3 months they fire the bottom third of their sales force and replace them. This usually means that at least a third of the salespeople
are rookies who really are in a sink or swim learning mode. Many times they really don't know either the car or the business. This also means that they must rely on the sales manager to guide them and he may be a JERK. Hence the stupid things that get passed along to the customer.

One piece of advice I would give is to call and ask for the SM, tell him you're interested in such and such but you want to talk to the salesman with most experience. When you get him on the phone ask him what they feel they have to make on a car and how much above "cost" (NOT invoice) they will sell it for.
He will have a gross profit that he will need to get, of course, but if you come across as a knowledgeable straight shooter he may deal honestly with you. You can explain that you realize they need to make a certain amount of profit on a car and if he will work with you then "we won't try and insult each other with ridiculous offers back and forth." You can check on Edmunds.com for the actual cost and TMV of the car to see if you're being lied to. Don't be surprised if they try and "bust you" on the options so be sure and check the price of them too.

I've been in the employment of Dealerships for many, many years and this will work a lot of times assuming you have a dealership that's at least half way honest. The other REALLY important thing is to wait until the very last 2-3 days of the month to finalize the deal. That's when dealers are trying to make their quota and many times they will even sell a car below cost to get numbers on the board to reach the "factory money" (AKA trunk money) quota. This is a number the factories will many times set for dealers to reach in that months sales and if they achieve it then the factory gives them thousands of extra dollars that goes right to their bottom line. This means that in these situations they don't care what, if anything, they make on those sales just as long as the make their number.

Good luck!

[Matt In Detroit]

This thread really set home with me. Just a month ago b4 we bought the Blue Marauder, we were hitting local dealers looking at cars. We made an offer on a 07 Montego we really liked. Wasnt a lowball offer, but we cut them a little bit. They came back with an almost instant no. This was after the sales lady kept saying, "make an offer, make an offer" so we did. They wanted to inform us on how much advertising costs and how these are select cars, they couldnt stay in business selling cars like that, blah blah. Anyways it felt so good walking out and passing on the deal. I have to say, i wasnt impressed with any dealer in metro Detroit when it came to call backs, lines of BS, "let me speak to my manager" crap. very frustrating. And i had cash in hand!! No wonder why cars arent selling.

[Aren Jay]

..........

[LIGHTNIN1]

When I had a Ford I took it to one of the half dozen dealers here for repair and always got it back with more problems than I took it in for. Tried another Ford dealer with same results.So took it to a private mechanic with only good results.On my MM I have used a no BS private mechanic for the oil changes. Am almost afraid to try another dealer for anything.:(

[GordonB]

I guess I have a gem of a little dealership right in my backyard, 2 miles away from me -- Safford LM. Walked in first time to test drive an '03 MM -- got tossed the keys and was told to go drive and come back and we''' talk. Drove a SB MM and went about 15 miles and came back. Liked it. Searched for a Blue one -- went to Branch Ave. Marlow Heights, about 25 miles away and found a Blue one without the heated seats and the salesman tried to convince us he could retrofit the heated seats in it for us. My wife didn't bite. Went back to Safford and asked them to get us one with heated seats and we wanted to use my Supplier Discount -- no problem. Went back 1 year later, told them what I wanted and was using my son-in-law's Employee Disc, signed a plain piece of paper (IOU) and drove the car home after driving to Virginia to exchange a GM for the DTR MM with the salesman -- piece of cake. Painless and a pleasure.

And Safford does good service work too!!!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. HeHe!
GordonB

[jgc61sr2002]

I had to travel to Dearborn , MI to purchase my last vehicle.
Made the deal via phone, drove there and trailered it home 14K off sticker.:D

[88LTDCV351]

I hate stealerships. I've bought used cars (FLMs) all of my life from used car lots and private persons and only bought parts and used the body shop from a FLM dealership. Until I bought my Marauder. It was in 2007 and the marauder was used. All I got to say is read before you sign. Sometimes what the sales lady tells you doesn't make it to the business person that makes you sign the forms. Boy was I pissed when I got the first monthly payment. I went back to my paperwork and sure enough I signed it without ensuring it had the lower deal that I bit on. Of course the sales lady disavowed that she remembered the lower price.

Also, they made me wait about a half an hour after they made the sale because some higher end customers came in to just look at a Ford GT 500 or whatever.

[DOOM]

I'm glad it all worked out for you guys.
Enjoy the new ride.

[Black Dynamite]

What dealership if you don't mind my asking?

[duhtroll]

Which one - the morons or the one we dealt with?


What dealership if you don't mind my asking?

[frdwrnch]

It embarases me to read this. It seems the negative actions of some dealers taint the attempts of the good ones. Some of you have been my customers both at the dealers I have worked and as an independent. I believe most of my customers have had positive experiences but alas, I have not pleased everyone. Being honest and sincere while walking the razor's edge of Ford policy is not an easy task but I do it every day. I agree with the post that some dealers have a strong service dept. and weak sales or vice-versa. The key is to find one you can work with and develope a rapor(?) with them. If you are a valued service customer then maybe they can put the screws to a weak sales dept. in order to keep you at the dealer. In the old days sales and service fought like cats and dogs, but now we feed off each other and work better together. Don't give up on us! Things are changing for the better although people are resistant to change it is coming. we are rolling out some awesome product in the next 10 months and as previously stated, people will vote with their feet! The old school salesmen and techniques are being replaced with the younger generation. Training is improving and should result in a more customer focused sales staff. As the troll mentioned, do your homework, know about what your trade is worth and know about what the vehicles sell for and you should be able to negotiate a fair deal.(3% is probably not enough PVR to sustain a modern dealership but may be enough for an older facility with relatively low overhead). Most importantly Don't give up on Ford or it's dealers. The future looks alot brighter!

[duhtroll]

I will always buy Fords. Just sayin' there are enough dealers to choose from that I don't have to take the local guys' crap.

:)

[BLACKMARAUDER04]

I used the internet to purchase my MM. Told them what I wanted, when I would want it (lease was up). Bad luck was the first one cam ein damaged off the train and they refused it. 2 days later, they had the MM I wanted( they traded another dealer). Went is on Saturday, signed the papers (5 years, 0% interest, $3000 rebate. Used the rebate as down payment, walked off with just my signature. Was very happy.

[Shora]

...Being honest and sincere while walking the razor's edge of Ford policy is not an easy task but I do it every day....

THAT is the problem!!!! Being honest and sincere SHOULD be Ford's policy. 90+% of the problems that we have with dealerships is that "being honest and sincere" is far from being policy, it's looked down on.

20 yrs. with Ford in my family and trust me, just thinking about some of the stuff we went through with them is enough to ruin my day.

Note:

I have mostly been dealing with the criminals at Ford, but I am sure others are just as crooked. I am sure that there are many good dealerships out there, but I am also sure that they are not in the majority. For now I survive only because of friends who work at Ford.