Traction Control - Advice Please

[usgecko]

I am looking at a 300A ? 2003 MM - a demo car at dealers. It does not have traction control.

Should it concern me that it does not have traction control - how useful is it - and how valuable a feature have those who have got it found it to be ?

I live in Indiana - so there can be snow on the ground in winter.

This is a great board guys - thanks for the advice.

[duhtroll]

You'll find differing opinions on this. Basically it's personal preference. I decided for IA that I needed it for our winters here, however some will swear they do better without it and wouldn't drive one that had it.

It's all up to you (sorry if that doesn't help much).

Thanks,
-A

[Nathan]

I find that the TC in the Marauder isn't as "must have" of an item as the AdvanceTrac that Ford offers on other vehicles. If you get the traction control, you'll probably find yourself turning it off a lot (err.. although it already saved me once when the car shifted hard while passing on a two lane in the rain).

Now the factory heated seats.... that's another story. I'll keep my warm a$$ over a locking fuel door any day of the week!

[BillyGman]

car that I had T/C on was a 94 Mercury Grand Marquis and I hated it. I actually got stuck on a hill in the snow more than once just because of the T/C which couldn't be turned off on that car. Whenever I'd be driving up a snow covered hill and the wheels would break loose even just a little bit, the T/C would turn on(you can here it working) and start automatically applying the brakes on and off until the tires stopped spinning. The problem was that by the time the T/C shut off and stopped applying the brakes, the car would practically be at a complete stand still and the momentum of the car going up the hill was completely lost and it would get stuck right on the hill. And very often it was anly about 20 or 30 feet from the top of the hill too! Soif I didn't have the T/C, then I would've made it up those hills since I the car was still traveling at about 30MPH until the T/C turned on and eventually brought it to a complete stop. So that was the problem w/the T/C on my car. It continued to hit the brakes in an intermittent fashion until the tires stopped spinning completely even though the car was still in control and moving forward at a good pace when the T/C began to kick in. I hated it!!!!!

[Murader03]

As you can see already, the differences between owners is showing. My last car was a '99 Cobra with T/C. I never really noticed it being there until I tried to light the tires. If you forget to turn it off, it'll kill the power until the wheels stop slipping. I ran the car thru 3 winters in Delaware without much problem, using the stock tires BTW. I don't miss it on the MM, and I'm really kinda glad it's not there. We had a terrible winter, this past season, with 27" of snow on the ground in 1 week. I had the snow tire package ordered and installed after the first snow in Dec. '03 as the stock tires are crappy in snow and ice. The MM and I went thru stuff where smokey and their CVPI's ended up in ditches or completed 180's heading back in the wrong direction. If you had it before and liked it, by all means find an MM with T/C. If you never had it then you won't miss it! BTW, with T/C you'll also get the donut space vice full size. There will also be slight differences between the 300 A without T/C and the 300B with it.

[jgc61sr2002]

usgecko - Welcome to the MM site. As you can see it is a matter of preference. Remember you can't add traction control to a US 300A, but if you don't like on the 300B you can turn it off. I myself waited for the 300B to get the traction control and heated seats. Either way the Marauder is fantastic.:D

[RF Overlord]

^^^what jgc61sr2002 said^^^

[MapleLeafMerc]

TC helps under hard acceleration on wet pavement; however, IMHO:

If you polled owners who have TC and get serious winters, most would say they find it a handicap in snow. Whether it's getting up hills or down your street before the plow's gone by, you're guaranteed to go NOWHERE when the wheels stop turning.

Besides, why have to push a button when you want to make some noise at a stoplight? That's kind of what I got it for!

[BillyGman]

that I look at it too. Yes, heated seats would be nice to have, but as far as the traction control, just keep in mind that even when you turn it off, it automatically resets itself every time you start the car, so in snowy weather you'll have to remember to turn it off every time you get in the car to start it up. And I can't see even having any real need for T/C in the rain.

[martyo]

I thought T/C was going to be an important feature, so I made my dealer track me down a 300B. I was lucky because he got me pre-decontented model with the very rare chrome shift bezel. If I knew then what i know now, I would have opted for a 300A and not worried about the T/C. I got lucky though and got the best of both worlds.

[MapleLeafMerc]

Originally posted by martyo
I was lucky because he got me pre-decontented model with the very rare chrome shift bezel.

Ummm...is that the metal plate around the shifter/gear indicator (matches the metal strip along the bottom of the dash)?

[MikesMerc]

The 2004 MM I just had delivered is a 300A, but has TC (I think all 2004 have now?). Although I cannot say how TC will effect winter driving yet, what I find interesting is that it does not hinder lighting up the tires at the stoplights when left enabled. A quick jab of the go pedal results in a pair of 2 ft rubber strips on the pavement. That really surprised me. I haven't tried lighting them up yet with TC disabled...still breaking it in slowly:)

[BillyGman]

rubber isn't anything. What I mean is, perhaps the T/C kicked in right at the 2 foot mark and stopped the tires from spinning any longer. That's the way that the T/C on my Grand Marquis worked in the snow. It didn't kick in until after the wheels started spinning, and then it would automatically apply the brakes on and off until the wheels stopped spinning.(left something to be desired anyway:rolleyes: ). I think that you'll get a better feel of how the T/C works if you stop on a hill, and punch the gas pedal w/the T/C on during a steady rainfall, and you'll see what I mean.

[MikesMerc]

I'm sure your right. My point was that if you wanted to drive around and just leave TC enabled it wouldn't hamper the fun to be had at the stoplight if one felt so inclined:) I really thought TC would shut that down, and thought others might think so too.

As far as whether TC is good/bad for real daily drive-ability in increment weather, I'll unfortunately know first hand sooner than later here in Detroit.

[BillyGman]

who have faster Marauders due to the modifications that we've done,I think that T/C would take the "fun" away when it came to tire spinning unless it was turned off since some of our cars can spin the tires for a lot longer than 2 feet. That's what I meant. So I'm glad that my MM doesn't have T/C, since it's worthless in the snow anyway as far as I'm concerned.;)

[MikesMerc]

Perhaps. But seeing as TC can be so easily disabled/enabled on the MM it's a pretty hard argument to make to not get the option:)

I might be jaded though. After years of wrestling with tire spin on my blown 91 mustang coupe (in which case wheel spin is a very bad thing indeed), I kinda like the TC "concept". Although that car was a sunny day driver, it would have been a death sentence in any other conditions.

As far as the MM, after a few more break in miles I'll stand on the pedal with TC disabled and enabled so I can compare the difference for myself. But, for me, getting a nice pair of 2 ft strips from just a half pedal jab with TC on is quite nice. Saves me from having to strain myself reaching over and pressing that TC button;)

[BillyGman]

what your findings are w/the T/C enabled vs. disabled when you get some miles on your car........

[Merc-O-matic]

BillyG....You state that the T/C is worthless...
"in the snow anyway". My question is why
would Ford continue put it in their RWD cars
if it doesn't work? You would think Ford
would be smart enough to delete it from
production and save the money?
M-O-matic

[BillyGman]

because they have to compete w/the astronomical sales of front wheel drive cars that almost evryone chooses for the snow. So they throw in something called "Traction Control" to get customers attention hoping that they will put down their coin on a rear wheel drive car. Talk to any salesmen, and they'll tell you that big rearwheel drive cars aren't selling nearly as much as front wheel drives are, and it's been like that a long time now. try to find a used car lot that has mostly rear wheel drive cars. You'll be hard pressed to find one. Why do you think that is? because everyone wants front wheel drive, and car dealers have a very tough time trying to sell rearwheel drive. I guess you haven't tried driving up a long hill that's snow covered w/your T/C car yet. Try doing that and then get back to me. But before you give up on that hill that you CANNOT get up w/your T/C enabled, first try going up it again w/your T/C turned off. If you know how to drive in the snow, then you'll make it up more snow covered hills w/out the T/C than you will w/it. I speak from experience on that. So you might want to try a little experimentation in a good snow storm before having such loyal trust in the car manufacture.

[MapleLeafMerc]

I agree with BillyG re TC in snow, but many members seem to like it (for wet roads, I think). Still, the question is a fair one. No idea what TC costs as a component of the car, but including it while taking out small things like hood lights and remote gas doors to save money seems inconsistent at the least.

[BillyGman]

all about deceptive sales promotion walking hand in hand w/engineering decisions. Remember, dealers will tell you that they sell a lot less Grand Marquis, Crown Vics, or Marauders than they do their front wheel drive cars. And you know they've been well aware of that for a long time now.

[ADE 1000]

I must disagree with all those that are saying traction control is completely useless in the snow. My past winter vehicle was a 1998 Mark VIII LSC with traction control, a car similiar in performance and fairly close in size to the Marauder. I found the traction control very usefull in the snow.

It allows you to just hit the gas and the car does the rest from a stop. It just cuts power until the car starts moving. Sure, you can feather the throttle on a car that does not have T/C, but that takes more effort and skill. I also find it handy in slippery turns when I accidently get on the gas too hard and the rear end comes around, the T/C catches it nicely.

I agree that T/C is useless in extreme conditions such as ice or uphill, but in that case just hit the button and turn it off. T/C is the main reason I am going for a 300B over a 300A. It just allows some added security and can save you when you are not paying attention.

[Agent M79]

I grew up and learned to drive big RWD cars in Cleveland. None of them had traction control so I learned to drive on snow without it.

The first car I had with traction control was a '00 Mustang GT 6M. Drove it in some snow (like 2 days) and played with the traction control. In circumstances where I was just tooling around and I could tell it kicked in it helped much more than it hindered. In those few places I needed some tire spin or needed to bring the back end around a little, I turned it off.

Off snow, I've had traction control activations on dirt and gravel and in one case (on gravel) it likely kept me from having the back end get too far out of line and putting me into a ditch.

It's a tool guys. A wrench is not the optimum tool for turning screws so you don't usually use it that way. Traction control is not going to be universally applicable for every situation either, so don't use it in every situation.

I am pretty sure when traction control starts *causing* accidents for you, you'll have enough money that you can get whatever car(s) you want and have the traction control removed.

[BillyGman]

Originally posted by Agent M79
I am pretty sure when traction control starts *causing* accidents for you, you'll have enough money that you can get whatever car(s) you want and have the traction control removed.

Hmmmmm, I'm not sure if that was supposed to be sarcasm on your part, but if it was, then I've missed that. But incase that was a serious statement, I don't believe for one minute that T/C will cause accidents nor will it prevent accidents. if someone is hoping to rely on T/C to prevent accidents in the snow then they don't know how to drive in it, and they should just call a cab whenever it snows instead of driving in it.

[Agent M79]

Yes, tongue firmly in cheek! And for most everything I say too.

The "you" in the statement was not *you* in particular or directly to anyone else either.

My apologies if my opining can be construed as anything more than a small *constructive* contribution to the thread. I'd edit it to prevent others from from sensing that but then they'd wonder what we were talking about!

[BillyGman]

it's all cool. I wasn't offended. Sometimes it's just a bit difficult to tell exactly what people are saying while trying to communicate w/them in writing, that's all. I can be pretty outspoken myself(as you've probably already noticed) so because of that I have to be thick skinned and tolerant also.;)

[MapleLeafMerc]

As was stated in another thread about TC, there are different stories and opinions.

ADE 1900, you have a good point about paying attention. We've all had times when we've been caught napping. And like Agent 79 said, it's just a tool to use (or not) as you see fit.

It IS difficult to communicate accurately in writing, BillyGman. Takes me ten minutes to write what I could say in one!

Lastly, a confession. I wouldn't be nearly so resentful about having TC if I had heated seats also.

FMC thought long enough about Canadian winters to make it mandatory for Canadians to have it (maybe an extra grand most others had a choice to spend). However, they failed to appreciate that the very same type of winter that might demand TC might also be COLD, and that such owners would appreciate a bun warmer too.

[Merc-O-matic]

"Everyone wants Front Wheel Drive"....
"They sell a lot less Rear Wheel Drive"...Why?
The real reason everyone drives FWD today
is because that's all the manufacturers
really build & sell. They want you to drive FWD
CARS because they are cheaper to build and
there is more profit per car. (under the guise
of being better).
FORD kept the CV, Grand Marquis,
Town Car and now the Marauder, because
they knew there was a small percentage of
people who wanted big RWD cars and enjoyed
the advantages of a RWD (towing, etc.)
(laying a patch of rubber)(Police & Taxi)
(drag racing...Mustangs too)
(and us "old folks" who won't drive anything else)
and they knew they wouldn't get rich on this
group, but there were some sales to be had...&
Ford was smart to keep the RWD segment alive,
Chrysler and General Motors were not.
GM & Mopar are just starting to go back to
RWD now. "Caddy" will soon have a big RWD sedan.
Again, all the "imports" are FWD because they
are cheaper and easier to build.
But for a "salesman" to say nobody wants
RWD is not really true. If the car manufactuers
only produced RWD cars, thats what everybody
would buy & drive (like the old days).
I personally like RWD, because thats what
I've been driving for the past 50 years.
Today....the average JOE drives what
they build and sell him...FWD.
BillyGman sorry, I won't be able to test my "Black Beast"
with T/C in the snow....she is stabled in Fla. and only
comes out in 70F weather or when she senses "Tuners"
in the area.
And IMHO from what I have been reading here
T/C is nice option to have.

P.S. Born and raised in Cleveland, O.
and can drive "any" car in snow/ice (auto or stick)
up or down any road/ hill (they) tell me to.
But in reality...I'm gettin' to old to
deal with all that snow & cold on a regular basis.
The bottom line is we all need to be GRATEFUL
for what WE HAVE and thank FORD for our Marauders!
ENJOY!
Gotta Love It!

[BillyGman]

LOL...don't get me wrong, I luv rear wheel drive cars. But look at the used car lots and what sells the quickest and what doesn't. And even though I don't like Front wheel drive, I must admit that it is better in the snow. Yes, better than rear wheel drive w/or w/out T/C. That doesn't mean that I'm going to buy a car w/wrong wheel drive though. I'll stay w/rear wheel drive thankyou.;)

[Merc-O-matic]

BillyGman we think alike....
REAR WHEEL DRIVE ALL THE Waaaaaaay!
The only way to go!

Gotta Love it!

[TripleTransAm]

Limited experience in the snow:

Late wet snowfall this past spring, barely 2 days after I picked up my Marauder. My slightly inclined (up from the street) driveway was covered in wet slippery snow. The car repeatedly backed up the drive with no extra effort on my part with the TC on. I kept trying it over and over, I was so surprised.

Perhaps they've improved TC recently.

[BillyGman]

maybe, I dunno. but i think you would get a better idea of weather or not it's been improved if you had to drive up a steep and long hill. All is it does is hit the brakes intermittenly. Which kills your momentum going up a hill. So it really doesn't improve your Traction despite the fact of it being called "Traction" control. I admit that I'm speaking from experience w/a 1994 car that had it, but since it still works by hitting the brakes, then i don't expect it to be much better than it ever was. But so far I haven't seen anyone here claim that they've used it while going up a steep hill and it worked great. In my experience it's definately a hinderence in those type of situations.

[TripleTransAm]

Modern TCs begin by reducing engine output first, sometimes in stages, then eventually apply one or both rear brakes to reduce slippage.

In my case, I was starting from a complete stop in deep slushy snow that was semi-iced over (those damned late spring snow dumps that are mixed with rain). From memory, I experienced a split second of massive wheelspin followed by immediate grip and positive movement up the drive. No violent jerking of the car, just a hum from the motor and instant motion.

I'll know more this coming winter, but as I said before, the MM's TC seems to be refined to the point of unobtrusiveness.

[BillyGman]

you'll find out for sure. Not to be sarcastic, but just go up a few long steep hills for me w/it left on. Okay? my T/C that I had also made that same humming noise, and whenever it did when i was going up a hill, I knew that soon thereafter all the momentum of the car traveling up the hill would come to a complete stop, and I'd get stuck on that hill. It never failed! I'd like to slap the guy who invented it.

[Silver_04]

Another reason you might be able to light up the tires with T/C on is it could be similar to the system used on Mustangs. With that system, as long as the front wheels were turning at the same rate you could spin the rears all day long. However, as soon as one of the front wheels had a different speed, the T/C kicked in. I don't know if this is the same type of system used in the Marauder, but I'll find out.

[BillyGman]

the latest T/C is monitored by the speed of the front wheel rotation, then that IS a DEFINATE improvement over the T/C that I had in my 94 Grand Marquis. So you got my attention w/that post.;)