steering wheel shake 60mph and above

[james1986fox]

I've always had a little steering wheel shake on the freeway but yesterday I had some used good condition 235/50/18 bf goodrich tires balanced and mounted and now its shaking even harder when I'm at 60mph and above and sometimes it'll go away for like 5 seconds just wondering if anybody else has had the same symtoms.

[Got_1]

sounds like what i've got. check the front tires for inside tread wear. they may not look bad but run your hand over it and you should feel the choppy treads. its from a combination of camber wear and lack of rotation. (since you can't rotate). I plan on replacing mine soon but for now i'm living with it.

[james1986fox]

sounds like what i've got. check the front tires for inside tread wear. they may not look bad but run your hand over it and you should feel the choppy treads. its from a combination of camber wear and lack of rotation. (since you can't rotate). I plan on replacing mine soon but for now i'm living with it.
Could it be possible that they were balanced wrong its weird that the ones I jus got put on are in way better shape than the older ones, although they didn't balance one rim n tire because I only replaced 3 tires.

[justbob]

This is usually the sign of front BFG's on the way out. Atleast thats what my last two sets did. Mostly highway only.

[Blackened300a]

I noticed it with my new Nittos as well. Im positive my front end is in perfect shape. I think the balance may be off.

[LeoVampire]

Ask them to check the ballance of the tire's before they pull the weight's off to see if it is that.
I had the same problem between 65 to 70 and found out the ballance was off on both tires by .5 ounce's on both.

[Glockafella]

BRAKE ROTORS ARE WARPED!

Mine does it too

[Got_1]

rotors won't causing a vibration while driving - only while braking

so if your front end is tight, its 1 of 2 things. tires themselves are chopped or the wheel is out of balance.

[Blk Mamba]

I've had mine shake with low air pressure.

[james1986fox]

So if its not the tires what could it be as far as my front end goes

[james79stang]

if the the front "shock's" are going the will not handle the de-flection... and you will feel it in the steering wheel too.

[Motorhead350]

Your rim(s) could be bent. Mine used to do that when I would go over 85. Turns out it was a bent rim.

[fastblackmerc]

Get your tires and wheels roadforce balanced.

[Rockettman]

Same thing happened to me. Had my tires balanced at a Sam's club, and it took 3 times of returning to the store, then eventually going to a Ford dealer. The dealer's balance was perfect. He mentioned that all the pressures were wrong - and all different, and that some of these kinds of places don't pay to have their machines calabrated on an ongoing basis. The dealer solved my shake. :banana2:

[Bluerauder]

Get your tires and wheels roadforce balanced.
Could be balance or alignment or both. I'd check balance first since the problem doesn't show up until 60 MPH.

Hours after my last set of fronts went on, I noticed a similar steering wheel shimmy at about 60 MPH highway speeds and immediately took the car back for a rebalance while I waited -- FREE, of course. I suspect that most places only spin balance up to about 55 MPH so any slight balance issues won't show up until higher speeds. Most people wouldn't even notice this problem. Marauder owners do. :D

I asked 'em to spin 'em faster .... no steering wheel shimmy now for the past 20,000 miles on the front tires. No alignment issues ever.

I agree -- get the Road Force Balance. :up:

[Rockettman]

What is a Road Force Balance?

[Bluerauder]

What is a Road Force Balance?

Wheel/Tire balancing with the Hunter GSP9700 machine. It not only spins your wheels but also loads them with road forces to more accurately model "actual" conditions. More info here >>>> Hunter GSP9700 (http://www.gsp9700.com/)

[Rockettman]

Wow...quite the piece of gear. :beer:

[burt ragio]

The Hunter GSP also can vector a wheel & tire.
On another note I had wheel shake when I purchased my Marauder new with 52 miles. I had the wheels balanced & rebalanced four times twice at the dealer twice at a tire place with no positive results. The shake didn't go away until I installed the Naake Q1s. up front. I'am not sure if it is due to the heavier 450lbs springs or the different valveing in the coil over shocks. It doesn't make any difference what setting I have it set at but there is no present shake ever not even with inner tire wear.

[BODYMAN]

Get your tires and wheels roadforce balanced.

This is what I would do as others have indicated we cannot rotate are tires so the frt tires will eventually get some type of wear even with good pressure and balance. try to get them roadforce balance and see what it is like then. the problem you a describing is USUALLY in the tire balance.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Are they KDWs? that is your problem. I don't think anything (including a road force balance) can get these tires to not shimmy slightly on the highway. I have road forced a couple pairs of the KDWs and the rims are round and true and the tires don't run out but they still shake 65+ slightly. It's the tires and I can't wait for this set to wear out so I can buy something else

[DTRMiguel]

I can't wait for this set to wear out so I can buy something else

All that open space near your house :eek:. Burn those bitches up

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Miguel I need the FRONT to wear out, lol.

[DTRMiguel]

Burn those bitches up

Gotta curse word????? :awe:
:banned:

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

did you just quote yourself? I am confused!

[DTRMiguel]

did you just quote yourself? I am confused!


Yes i quoted myself lol pimp **** :beatnik:

[Daily 03]

My guess would be since you mounted used tires, is that the tires are out of round. Probably this is the reason that they were replaced before they were worn out originally.

[Bluerauder]

Are they KDWs? that is your problem. I don't think anything (including a road force balance) can get these tires to not shimmy slightly on the highway. I have road forced a couple pairs of the KDWs and the rims are round and true and the tires don't run out but they still shake 65+ slightly. It's the tires and I can't wait for this set to wear out so I can buy something else

I disagree totally with ^^^^^ this assessment. If you are getting steering wheel shimmy at all, you've got a problem somewhere. Don't blame it on the KDWS tires. I have been running the OEM KDWS on the front of my MM for nearly 6 years and have never had a problem after they were properly balanced. The car is rock solid at any speed and tracks true, tire wear is even across the fronts, no drift or pull to either side at all. Maybe I am just lucky.

[CWright]

When I got mine I had the same problem. I have a friend who worked on it until it was right. He ended up breaking down all four tires and checking the wheels alone on the balancer. Found one rim slightly bent so we put it on the rear and moved the rear rims to the front. With the slightly damaged rim on the back I have not felt the vibration any more. All balanced out and tire wear is even.

[Glockafella]

This is directly from my OASIS REPORT:

6/4/03 @ 1351 miles
road force balance 4 tires and dimount 2 to correct (vibration @ 60 MPH+)


Do we have a Theme HERE!?

[james1986fox]

What do most of you set your tire pressure to on the 235s ive got all of mine at 40psi

[GordonB]

FWIW, I run my FRONT BFGs KDWS at 35psi and get NO vibrations.
GordonB

[Glockafella]

I run 235 dollar a piece GoodYear F1s that have a slight shimmy at 60+MPH...

[Bluerauder]

What do most of you set your tire pressure to on the 235s ive got all of mine at 40psi
Like GordonB, I am running 35 psi on the 235/50/18 fronts and 38 psi in the 255/55/18 rears. I upsized to the 255s this past March.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I disagree totally with ^^^^^ this assessment. If you are getting steering wheel shimmy at all, you've got a problem somewhere. Don't blame it on the KDWS tires.

I am not the only one who had rims checked for trueness, had road forcing done w/ lug centric adapters multiple times, and has a low mileage car with a perfect alignment, and still has shimmy, w/ the KDWs being the common denominator. There was a guy on here who replaced his multiple sets of KDWs that always shimmied and the shimmy went away. I am not making this stuff up. I have my own electronic balancer at my house and I have dismounted the tires and checked runout with a dial indicator and the wheels do not run out.

I additionally am running a high quality brake rotor that is dynamically balanced. My car has 38k miles on it and I got it when it had 23k on it, and it has always had the shimmy on the highway. If you let the steering wheel out of your hands it saws slightly side-side. Which to me indicates a belting issue in the tire.

[Bluerauder]

I am not the only one who had rims checked for trueness, had road forcing done w/ lug centric adapters multiple times, and has a low mileage car with a perfect alignment, and still has shimmy, w/ the KDWs being the common denominator. There was a guy on here who replaced his multiple sets of KDWs that always shimmied and the shimmy went away. I am not making this stuff up. I have my own electronic balancer at my house and I have dismounted the tires and checked runout with a dial indicator and the wheels do not run out.

I additionally am running a high quality brake rotor that is dynamically balanced. My car has 38k miles on it and I got it when it had 23k on it, and it has always had the shimmy on the highway. If you let the steering wheel out of your hands it saws slightly side-side. Which to me indicates a belting issue in the tire.
I don't dispute your experience. Maybe you did pick up a bad set of KDWS. But it is not a problem with all of them. I have run two sets that have been perfect over 62,000 miles. Others have probably had the same assessment assuming they don't have the inner wear alignment issue.

Generally, tires that are deemed "out of round" or that have internal belting issues will require an excessive amount of weights to attempt to correct the natural imbalance of the tire itself. This should be a big clue.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I have about .75 oz/side on all 4 wheels on average. For an 18" wheel that is excellent. I rebalanced tires on one of our members MM's and his KDWs fronts took over 4 oz/wheel. Heh

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Hey I'm bringing this back from the dead because I am about to change out my front KDWs for the new radial TA spec "test tires" we have been talking about in the other thread.

My Marauder still has the steering wheel "Jiggle" or side to side sawing action, 40 mph and above. If you let your hands off the wheel it literally will saw side to side slightly. The car continues to track straight but the steering wheel does a little wiggle dance.

I have balanced the tires so many times it's not funny. I have my own Coats spin balancer now and it was recently calibration checked by a calibration service before I bought it. I do self calibration checks on the machine every couple times I use it and it always passes. I balance in "fine" mode which reads out to 0.01 oz instead of rounding off to the nearest 0.25 oz like most shops do.

I have also match mounted the tires to obtain the lowest amount of radial runout possible.

I have checked the wheels with a dial indicator w/ the tires off, on both the inside and outside bead seating areas. This is one of the important measurements that a Hunter road force machine would be doing but I'm doing it manually since I don't have a $15,000 balancer. I am getting less than 0.010" runout, peak to peak, on each edge. This is about 1/4 of the max runout allowable per DOT and 1/2 the runout that is acceptable per the factory service manual.

So we can safely eliminate wheel runout and wheel/tire assembly balance as the cause of my vibration.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/shylin01/2003%20Mercury%20Marauder/Shimmy%20Troubleshooting/runout3.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/shylin01/2003%20Mercury%20Marauder/Shimmy%20Troubleshooting/runout2.jpg

The tires do not run out much unloaded but that doesn't mean there isn't a stiffness variation in the sidewalls that shows up when loaded.

My suspension bushings and alignment are all great and I replaced the brake rotors with mill-balanced quality replacements.

If its not the tires than I don't know what could cause such a vibration. The fact that it shows up at such a low speed and that it causes the steering wheel to steer itself side to side seems to indicate one of the 2 front KDW tires has something going on once per revolution.

[Phrog_gunner]

Is there any play in the wheel bearings?

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I will go jack the car up and check when I get home

[Phrog_gunner]

Ive found that weird problems like this are usually some part that's so reliable that it gets overlooked initially, since it is so reliable.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I guess the next thing to check if tires don't do it and it's not wheel bearings, would be to check runout of the wheel hub center, and runout of the 5 lug pattern on each hub. I will do that if I have to. An easier check would probably be to mount up a bare wheel on each hub up front and then try indicating radial and lateral runout of the whole wheel/hub/rotor assembly at the tire bead surfaces and see if there is something in play that I hadn't previously considered.

[Phrog_gunner]

I guess the next thing to check if tires don't do it and it's not wheel bearings, would be to check runout of the wheel hub center, and runout of the 5 lug pattern on each hub. I will do that if I have to.

The hub and 5 lug pattern are all part of the wheel bearing/hub assembly...it doesn't come apart...So you should be able to get away with only one measurement per side. The problem is unless there is a chunk of one of the rollers grinding around inside that you can feel when you spin it by hand, the problem will probably only manifest with the weight of the car.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Just by virtue of machining tolerances though the lug pattern and hub may not run on the exact same center. I had instructions somewhere off the net for troubleshooting ride harshenss, that had typical runout specs for the hub center and the pattern. The hub had like a 0.000 acceptable runout but there was a slight tolerance for runout of the lug pattern. If the hub center runs out that would definitely cause a problem although I would think that would be virtually impossible. But my car has always had this shake so I really want to find out why, no matter how minor it is. The driver's side hub has already been replaced. The pass hub is original. So worst case scenario I can replace the pass hub for further troubleshooting.

[GordonB]

I've still got 4 UNmounted tires from Hankook (255) if you want to borrow 2 or 4 and mount on your rims or mine to eliminate any possible tires/wheels issue.
GordonB

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Hey I appreciate it. I bought a pair of the 2010 camaro spec BFGs that are $107/each for the 245/55s, they should be here soon for testing. I will let you know if I need anything

Thanks

Steve

[Bradley G]

I just put a new set of KDWS on the front and I have the saw action, but it is intermittent.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Yeah mine seems to vary in intensity from barely noticeable at all, to semi annoying. I wonder if the weird spiral cut inner tread groove on these tires doesn't play well w/ the suspension tuning?

[Phrog_gunner]

I hope it all works out for you. Ill be looking for an update.

[Vortech347]

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS....Clean the hubs, brake rotors, and wheels to make sure there is no foriegn material like rust or build up. Apply anti-sieze to the hub, both sizes of brake rotor area's and the hub area on the wheel and then on the studs.

I've done this for years I NEVER have vibration problems anymore. I'd get tires ballanced 10 damn times and it still shook. Tire places also don't always make sure everything is flush before they torque em down or airgun the **** of em.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Trust me I clean and antiseize the hubs. There are no tire shops in the equation because I am the tire shop. There is no air-gunning or dirty assembly going on over here. At some point I am going to buy a used dealership vibration analyzer on ebay and get a whole vehicle vibrations analysis software package I was looking at online the other day. The multi thousand dollar tools go for pennies on the dollar on ebay and the software is only a couple hundred bucks. I am that nuts about NVH.

[Vortech347]

You would hate riding in my foxbody. LOL!!!

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

No I have old, loud cars too, but when cars are old and loud then I am just happy that they go fast and stay together. For a modern, low mileage, very well kept car I expect everything to work as designed.

[Bradley G]

I Kleaned all the mateing surfaces too, with a die grinder and abrasive pad.
ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS....Clean the hubs, brake rotors, and wheels to make sure there is no foriegn material like rust or build up. Apply anti-sieze to the hub, both sizes of brake rotor area's and the hub area on the wheel and then on the studs.

I've done this for years I NEVER have vibration problems anymore. I'd get tires ballanced 10 damn times and it still shook. Tire places also don't always make sure everything is flush before they torque em down or airgun the **** of em.

[Marauderjack]

Folks......

Get rid of the damn BFG's and find another tire...any tire will be better GUARANTEED!!!

Nitto NT555's are much better and now I have Kumhos up front with a totally smooth ride and STILL steering wheel!!!:beer::bows:

I wish Ford/Mercury had never chosen the sizes and the BRAND for the OEM's.....POOR performance and VERY POOR wear!!:shake:

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

heh I am hoping the solution is this simple. The KDWs is not the only tire from BFG that I have had problems w/, if it is in fact the construction or workmanship of the KDWs that is causing loaded runout and corresponding suspension oscillation. I have purchased BFG traction TA's twice, both times full sets, and both full sets (about 2 years apart) failed loaded runout tests on perfectly true wheels and had to be returned brand new, right off the truck, back onto the truck. I am hoping these radial TA's are okay, they are cheap enough I can afford to try them if they don't work out. I am a glutton for punishment, maybe this model BFG will be the first set I have gotten from them that do not excite the suspension in a bad way.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Update, I got to drive another members low mileage Marauder tonight, that also has newer stock size KDWs front. He swore his steering didn't shake. I drove his car around and sure enough above 40 mph, his steering does the same thing as mine, saws side to side. His does it far less than mine, to the point that it is almost not an annoyance, but at least I got to prove that I am not crazy, and that other peoples cars are probably doing the same thing to differing degrees. It's either something particular to the platform, or the KDWs. Hopefully its the tires because that will be the easiest to correct.

[wtfo2]

Who does this or where can I get a "Road Force Balance". I agree, tire balance is questionable shop by shop.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

any good shop. Road force balancing is a diagnostic aid. The actual balancing on a GSP9700 is still done unloaded (without the roller loading the tire). The roller is used to load the tire to measure a tire pull and assembly runout but the balance itself is still a dynamic spin balance.

[Blackened300a]

I have Nitto 420s up front and I get a very slight vibration above 65mph. I checked my front end and I make sure that everything is clean and rust free. I also clean up the inside of the rims constantly and there is still that slight vibration.
I kinda just learned to live with it.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Ha I dont understand the meaning of "learn to live with it". If I did life would be much easier

[burt ragio]

Wheel shake I had the same issue with my car off the show room floor. I tried everything to fix the problem clean wheel to hub surface torque wheels road force balance. The only thing I didn't do was check the pre load on the steering. What I did by chance to fix the problem was change out the front coil overs to the Naake Q1s new BFs & car fixer alienment. I don't understand it but it fixed the problem. Maybe it was the heavier spring rate.

[Phrog_gunner]

I just had this problem after getting my tires remounted so i could move one of my rear rims to the front (long insurance story). Anyways I spontaniously acquired a minor steering wheel shake starting at about 65. I took it back to the shop to rebalance and still had the same problem, they INSISTED it was my worn stock BFGs or possibly the rim being bent that I had moved to the front. I took my car straight to the dealer and they balanced my tires. I went for a test drive and the car is good to 100 with no shake.

[Aren Jay]

I had something similar on my snow tires, it turned out to be the wheels not sitting flush.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I changed to completely different, new front tires, and that did not solve or change the shimmy. So I am dealing with something further inboard than wheels or tires. So I have to check hub center runout, wheel lug pattern runout, wheel bearings, and steering rack preload.

I will have to look up the steering rack adjustment. I have adjusted racks before but not this one in particular.

[burt ragio]

Check steering box preload 53inch lbs then back off 1/8 turn. Post your finding on wheel wobble after adjustment on preload.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I will check and adjust, thank you very much for the spec.

Steve

[JET]

Stranger in black sedan,
My car has had a shake in the steering forever to various degrees.
I bought my car new in ’02 and have run factory OEM tires until a month ago.
In my case “It is not the tires”.
I have 90,000 miles on the car. Though it is my daily driver I have not had to drive to work for the last 4 years, so it hasn’t been a major issue. However now I do and for the last 5 months I have a weekly commute of 600 highway miles a week. There is shake / shimmy in my steering and I can’t get rid of it this time and it is driving me crazy. I love this car but it I’m eating my heart out with this shake.
Until recently roadforce balancing would fix the shake. It would need to be done every 6 months or so or until It started bothering me enough. It is not working this time. My wheels have been balanced 4 times in 2 weeks and it is worse then ever. The roadforce guys say the rims are definitely not bent. The tires are brand new. My Baer rotors are warped but from past history that only effects the breaking. “Baer rotors have been replaced 3 times”. It the worst thing I did to the car.
I’m stumped and pissed. I need this fixed so I can start enjoying my car again. Please keep me updated on any progress you have.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Trust me I understand, even though the shimmy is minor, the fact that I have not been able to completely eliminate it has made me want to sell the car at times. It was not the tires for me either, it is something with the rotating parts or steering on the chassis. I still haven't adjusted the steering preload, maybe I'll have a chance to play w/ that tonight while I'm installing my MMC driveshaft.

[JimmyXR7]

I've always had a little steering wheel shake on the freeway but yesterday I had some used good condition 235/50/18 bf goodrich tires balanced and mounted and now its shaking even harder when I'm at 60mph and above and sometimes it'll go away for like 5 seconds just wondering if anybody else has had the same symtoms.

If the tires are flat spotted from a skid they will cause that problem even with a new balance.
Jim

[Marauderjack]

My new KUMHO's are glassy smooth at ANY speed!!:beer::bows:

If the pre-load were a problem I'd surely have it at 203K miles!!!

GET RID OF THE CRAPPY BFG's and call it a day!!:rolleyes:

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I haven't messed with the preload yet but I did learn one thing - if you look up tsb's for just about any manufacturer, "steering shake above xx mph" is probably the most common tsb noted complaint bar non, across all kinds of cars including really high end stuff. The "fix" always includes driving the car until the tires warm up, then immediately lifting the car off the ground w/ the tires warm from driving, without letting the car sit on the tires at all, and balance them. I found that just sitting on tires enough for them to cool, and then trying to balance, you could clearly see a temporary flat spot, on all kinds of tires, not just lo pro performance stuff. It would affect balance up to about a half oz from the temp flat spot. Very few shops will take the initiative to drive the car and then immediately lift it to pop the wheels off and then re balance.

I re balanced my tires this way, with them warmed up and then immediately removed from the car to balance, and the shake is improved but definitely still there. It's probably worth trying for you guys like Jet who sometimes have re balancing work for them, and sometimes it doesn't. Even if you are having them road force balanced, you should have the tires warmed up and then immediately removed from the car (best way to ensure this is the case would be drive the car yourself and then remove the wheels at your house, and bring them back in to the tire shop loose - the tires don't have to stay warm to balance, you just neeeded to drive the car to warm the tires up enough to get the normal flat spots you get in a radial tire every time you park it, out so it won't affect the balance)

I still promise to report back if steering preload fixes it. I have had to mess with steering rack preload on some of my other cars in the past (none of my daily driver type cars have ever had more than 85k miles) for various issues so I know that they can definitely be out of adjustement even at low mileage.

[Bradley G]

I had a bit of corrosion on the rims where they mate to the brake rotors on another vehicle that caused some vibration.
I had all that stuff done chasing a steering shake when I first got the Marauder new.
The selling dealer even checked the body mounts for being over torqued.
I had my wheels and tires rebalanced yesterday, The only shaking I had from 80 MPH (private track) was when I stepped on the Slow-me down pedal.
The dealer I went to has the Hunter Road force balance machine.
They employ two techs that specialize in these issues, they only work till 3:00PM.
Specialized techs get special hours.
The Manager said if this does not correct it to return and they will do battle to see if BFG will pay for the Road force service.
I have a case # from BFG and I will be on them, if this is not entirely gone.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Here's my update, as I got to drive the Marauder from MD to CT and back for Christmas. I have been able to reduce the steering nibble to such a low level that with the weight of your hands on the wheels, its just about not noticeable. If you remove your hands from the wheels you can see the wheel jiggle just barely but its reduced to below the threshold of nuisance now.

The only thing I did was balance the tires myself, with the tires HOT. I drove the car enough to get the tires up to operating temp, then drove home and immediately lifted and removed the tires, then balanced them immediately, using my balancer on the "fine" setting and balancing to less than 0.10 oz error.

This car seems to be extremely unforgiving of wheel imbalance. A road force balancer is not going to do any better of a job if you are balancing cold tires with a flat spot from sitting (happens to a normal radial tire enough to effect balance).

This was my experience.

I have not messed with steering preload. Thought about it but since I have reduced the steering nibble to such a low level I really don't want to tempt fate.

[CamMan02]

check your wheel bearings as well

[babbage]

This car seems to be extremely unforgiving of wheel imbalance. A road force balancer is not going to do any better of a job if you are balancing cold tires with a flat spot from sitting (happens to a normal radial tire enough to effect balance).


I have brand new KDWS that have never been mounted so there is no flat spot...

I'm thinking this could be amplifed by the cars factory alignment specs the wheels are toed in towards each other a bit. That's got to amplify any imbalance issue. I will have to find a shop that can road force balance my 4 new tires. Is it likely that my local LM dealer will have the road force rig?

[MMinMN]

Well, this steering wheel shake is pretty annoying. I only have 55,000 on my 03 MM. I had the alignment revised to the "fixer" or whatever specs those were and replaced the front tires as they wore uneven on the inside and were saw-toothed. Tires were road balanced and all work was done by a reputable shop and I was right there during the process. Shake went away for a few months and is not bad unless you are on a slightly ruff or bumpy road then the wheel really shakes.

Do the Grand Marquis and Vics have this problem? I think it's more that the original front wheels are too wide for the car and it's suspension. I didn't have this problem on my 03 CV P71.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I think you are right that the Marauder's much stiffer, wider tires make the steering feedback harsher than it would be on a balloon-tired panther car. Might look into the steering preload adjustment if the wheel is giving you harsh feedback only on rougher roads - maybe you have too little preload. I never touched my adjustment because I was able to eliminate the steering "nibble" by balancing my tires with the tires hot from driving and not letting the car sit at all on them before balancing.

[ik04]

rotors won't causing a vibration while driving - only while braking

Mine did. Cracked rotor warped bad enough to cause grab with brakes not applied.

[tbone]

New tires cured mine. Rock solid at any speed.

[Piece-it Pete]

Hello everyone, long time lurker, first time poster :)

My 03 Grand Marquis has this same problem and it's driving me crazy. Like the one poster said, I've thought about selling the the blessed thing!

Had the tires balanced a few times, helped but no cigar. Swapped a few rims, no help. The rotors had already been changed with no result.

Replaced the front tires with Michelin MXV4s. Helped a little, but still there.

My neighbor thought it sounded like inner tie rod ends so I changed the upper control arms, lower ball joints, inner and outer tie rod ends, all problem solvers. I had already changed the sway bar links.

LBJs were worn a little otherwise it was fine. Tightened up a little but still wobble.

I've been planning on changing the LCA bushings and then the shocks/springs (what else is there??) then found this thread :D

Before I spend more one this car I'd like to check the rack and pinion backlash. But I have never touched a r&p unit before outside of the tie rod ends. Can anyone give me some guidance?

Thanks,

Pete

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Wow mega old post. Somewhere buried in this thread was the comment:

Check steering box preload 53inch lbs then back off 1/8 turn.

I assume this means, with the steering centered, get under the car, loosen the stamped metal lock nut on the steering rack, tighten the nut in the center of the stamped metal nut to 53 in lbs, then back off 1/8 turn then lock the stamped metal lock nut down again.

I think when I went to do this, I found it was going to be difficult or impossible to verify this adjustment w/ the rack on the car, and I gave up and never messed with it. I think the issue I found was there was no easy way to get my mini 0-90 in lb dial torque wrench on the nut and still be able to turn and read it. But this is me trying to remember what I did years ago, maybe I'm remembering wrong. I ended up solving the steering shake by balancing the tires hot and paying attention to have less than 0.10 oz error, per side, on the balance job when I did it. A grand marquis with 16" wheels and narrow, high profile tires should be much less sensitive to wheel balance than an 18" wheel with stiff tires though. I have MXV4's on my Taurus, just put them on, and they are a super soft 1 ply sidewall luxury cruiser tire. They are super super smooth riding and, coincidentally, eliminated a high speed vibration I could never get rid of on that Taurus w/ other tires on it. The Taurus uses 215/60/16s. It's like driving on a road made of velvet with the MXV4's. They are kindof a squirmy tire if you push them but in a straight line my god do they ride smooth.

[GreekGod]

My God man, it's a war out there! This is combat ... damn the torpedoes, and full speed ahead!

I get an occasional minor shake / shimmy, and just drive right through it. It comes & goes, but mine is not repeatable. Tires & roads seem for me to be the culprit. Happened with my BFG's & my Coopers.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

^what you describe, I get with the extremely low profile tires on my old BMW (235/40/18 front 265/35/18 rear). You get shimmying in the steering when you hit small bumps or pavement with a rough texture, but no speed-related vibrations. I don't notice that w/ the Marauder though. I am still running KDW's on the front, some newer ones.

[JET]

Since my last post about the shakes in August 2009 I have been cured. I don't know how but Firestone Tire in Short Pump (Richmond) Virginia fixed it. They have some extremely qualified techs. I told them about my issue and how I could not enjoy my car anymore and they got it straight. I am sorry its been so long that I don't know exactly what they did but it wasn't more then the simple basics but they obviously did it right.

I do remember leaving their lot and getting on the highway and feeling the the wheel shake. I turned around and headed right back to the shop and by the time I got there it was gone. Ever since then the the car has been fine.

They know me and my car very well so if you want to drop me a PM I'd be glad to put you in touch with them.

It sounds crazy but these guys fixed my other bizarre Marauder issues such as wipers, ac blowing out wrong vents, adjustable pedal and others.

The only thing that is still wrong is my speedometer / odometer. It is by plus 5mph and the odometer is equally off. However when I have my Nittos 305's on the back it is pretty close to being accurate. I can live with looking at 70mph and knowing I'm only doing 65mph.

[Piece-it Pete]

Thanks a million guys, I really appreciate the help.

I'll take a look at the r&p now that I know what to look for. If I have to pull it off though I might as well change it. Maybe.

A hot road force is now on the menu too. I'll talk to my shop so they know when I'm coming. Jet I've sent a PM, thanks.

The Michelins really are soft! Great wet traction though. I run Goodyear Eagle Ultra Grip GW2s on the back year 'round.

Of course I don't have the firebreathing monsters you guys do :)

To the battle then! I will definitely report back. And thanks again.

Pete

[JET]

Pete
I try to remember on Monday. If you here from me by Wednesday drop me another message.
Best
John

[Vortech347]

Since my last post about the shakes in August 2009 I have been cured. I don't know how but Firestone Tire in Short Pump (Richmond) Virginia fixed it. They have some extremely qualified techs. I told them about my issue and how I could not enjoy my car anymore and they got it straight. I am sorry its been so long that I don't know exactly what they did but it wasn't more then the simple basics but they obviously did it right.

I do remember leaving their lot and getting on the highway and feeling the the wheel shake. I turned around and headed right back to the shop and by the time I got there it was gone. Ever since then the the car has been fine.

They know me and my car very well so if you want to drop me a PM I'd be glad to put you in touch with them.

It sounds crazy but these guys fixed my other bizarre Marauder issues such as wipers, ac blowing out wrong vents, adjustable pedal and others.

The only thing that is still wrong is my speedometer / odometer. It is by plus 5mph and the odometer is equally off. However when I have my Nittos 305's on the back it is pretty close to being accurate. I can live with looking at 70mph and knowing I'm only doing 65mph.

You can fix that in the tune with the hand held. You should fix it because that means your car is now adding additional miles to the odometer.

[Piece-it Pete]

John, I've tried to PM you but there's nothing in my outbound or inbound box. Can you try PM'ing me?

THnaks,

Pete

[Piece-it Pete]

One year later, update:

Changed the bearings and complete suspension. So the ONLY bit that is original is the LCA bushings.

It's still there, but barely. I'll try a hot Road Force balance and report back.

Pete

[RF Overlord]

What is a "hot" road force balance?

[Piece-it Pete]

You've never been to a bikini garage? ;) :D

According to this site, it's best to have the tires balanced when they're heated up from driving.

Pete

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Yeah if you let a car sit for a few hours and check tire balance, then drive on the same tire until it's fully warmed up then check it again, you will find a difference. I have my own electronic spin balancer and have observed around 0.5 oz difference hot to cold on some tires (every model tire is a little different, some flat spot more than others). A regular radial tire still gets a minor flat spot from parking on it, that goes away as soon as you warm the tire up. Most people don't realize this, but if you check the tire runout of a radial tire a car has been parked on for a few hours, it's pretty noticeable when spinning it on a balancer. Balancing a cold tire the car has sat on will affect the accuracy of your balance and on some cars it really matters. On my Marauder with KDWs on the front, the only way I was able to eliminate my 60 mph steering "nibble" shake was to balance the tires warm. The nibble never came back, and this is probably 20k miles later on the same tires. One option is to drive your car for 10+ minutes, go home, immediately jack the front end up, remove both wheels, and go have a shop rebalance them off the car. It doesn't have to be a road force balance (a road force machine still does the balancing part like any other spin balancer, but it will have more diagnostic tests to see if your wheels are bent or you have a bad tire - helpful if you really do have a bent wheel or bad tire). Your tires don't have to actually be warm when they are balanced, you just want to remove them from having the weight of the car on them when they are warm and then not let them cool down w/ a car sitting on them, making minor flat spots.

[RF Overlord]

That all makes sense. I've had road force balancing done before, just never heard of a "hot" balance.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Here is an example of a manufacturer's TSB for trouble shooting wheel balance issues, that recommends warming the tires up and then immediately removing them for balancing, so that no temporary flat spots form and affect wheel balance (in this case Jaguar, but I have seen Toyota TSB's that say the same). That is where I came up w/ the idea to try this on the Marauder, and it worked. I do this for all my cars now if I ever check/rebalance a wheel/tire assembly that is in service.

http://www.jagrepair.com/images/TSB/TSB2/XJ_XK/204Suspension/204-17am%20wheel%20shimmy.pdf

^see steps 1 and 2

[NavySeabee]

Ask them to check the ballance of the tire's before they pull the weight's off to see if it is that.
I had the same problem between 65 to 70 and found out the ballance was off on both tires by .5 ounce's on both.


DITTO^^^ Rebalancing fixed mine also.

[8UWITH6]

Old thread, but my Blue car does it too. Its very hit or miss. Sometimes its pretty noticeable. Other times its not. Then there are sometimes the car is as smooth as glass. I just dont get it. Road forced the tires multiple times, moved wheels around, checked suspension, alignments perfect, etc. Even warrantied a tire. Still does it. 41k miles on the car. Very frustrating!