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Aren Jay
06-27-2009, 10:27 PM
Seems the drag racing trolls don't like the idea.

Anyhow.

Would a CVT transmission work any good with a Marauder? Was thinking primarly in Drag racing instances, but I suppose it would work for any circumstance.


Instead of having a high stall speed and shifting you could just maintain a steady peak torque for the first part of the race until your torque tops out then raise the rpm up to the max horse power level and just leave it there for the rest of the race.

The CVT would select the right gear throughout the race and you would get maximum engine output for the whole race. Might even get it such that you don't top your gears out or something.

Think it would work with our Maruaders?

RF Overlord
06-29-2009, 09:00 AM
This time, he asked a reasonable question. Either give a reasonable answer or don't bother posting.

Joe Walsh
06-29-2009, 09:07 AM
This time, he asked a reasonable question. Either give a reasonable answer or don't bother posting.

A CVT in a 302 HP/318FT-LB/4400 lb Marauder?

Reasonable answer: NO!

BTW: CVTs don't have gears...maybe he should do the slightest amount of research before asking "reasonable" questions.

O's Fan Rich
06-29-2009, 09:09 AM
How would you program it to work with the MM pcm?

Besides.... they worked so well in the cars they weredesigned to be installed in that Ford dropped them....

Phrog_gunner
06-29-2009, 09:38 AM
A CVT in a 302 HP/4400 lb Marauder?

Reasonable answer: NO!

BTW: CVTs don't have gears...maybe he should do the slightest amount of research before asking "reasonable" questions.

In 3.5 seconds of research I found that CVTs have limited TQ handling ability.

Joe Walsh
06-29-2009, 09:41 AM
In 3.5 seconds of research I found that CVTs have limited TQ handling ability.

Thank you!

(BTW: That's because you did a 'reasonable' amount of research.)

Stranger in the Black Sedan
06-29-2009, 11:27 AM
Cars that have used the CVT, like the base model saturn vue with the POS ecotec 2.2L, have tons of reliability problems w/ the drivetrain. The 260HP engine in that same platform got a regular automatic which is trouble free.... hmmm

Joe Walsh
06-29-2009, 11:30 AM
Cars that have used the CVT, like the base model saturn vue with the POS ecotec 2.2L, have tons of reliability problems w/ the drivetrain. The 260HP engine in that same platform got a regular automatic which is trouble free.... hmmm

But will it work OK for drag racing in a Marauder?

Stranger in the Black Sedan
06-29-2009, 11:36 AM
If you put a 2.2 ecotec in the marauder, or weaker, then yeah it should be good

Joe Walsh
06-29-2009, 11:38 AM
If you put a 2.2 ecotec in the marauder, or weaker, then yeah it should be good

I was planning on using a 'flat 8'...but an Ecotec 2.2 might suffice.

Blackened300a
06-29-2009, 02:03 PM
Seems the drag racing trolls don't like the idea.

Anyhow.

Would a CVT transmission work any good with a Marauder? Was thinking primarly in Drag racing instances, but I suppose it would work for any circumstance.


Instead of having a high stall speed and shifting you could just maintain a steady peak torque for the first part of the race until your torque tops out then raise the rpm up to the max horse power level and just leave it there for the rest of the race.

The CVT would select the right gear throughout the race and you would get maximum engine output for the whole race. Might even get it such that you don't top your gears out or something.

Think it would work with our Maruaders?

No stupid, you help lower your E.Ts through gearing and shift points. This tranny is for extended gas mileage.
Plus I dont think the belt drive in those trannys would last very long trying to motovate a 4400lb car off the line. Besides, arent those trannys only for FWD applications???
I know I scored 2nd place under Joe on the trolls ignore list so why did I even bother???

Joe Walsh
06-29-2009, 02:11 PM
No *****, you help lower your E.Ts through gearing and shift points. This tranny is for extended gas mileage.
Plus I dont think the belt drive in those trannys would last very long trying to motovate a 4400lb car off the line. Besides, arent those trannys only for FWD applications???
I know I scored 2nd place under Joe on the trolls ignore list so why did I even bother???

Hey, we both answered his 'reasonable' question in a non abusive way....well, I had to do a little editing on your reply, so we should be taken off his 'Ignore' list!
Being on his 'Ignore' list makes me feel so down and dejected....:alone:..:depress:
I hope that he takes me off of it soon!

So: We now know that a belt driven CVT would NOT be a good transmission choice for a high HP, heavy sedan...
not even a Jaguar or Phaeton could benefit from a CVT

cassidy
06-29-2009, 02:12 PM
Wouldn't the LOGICAL question (without all the personal combat) be...
"Does anyone make a CVT transmission that was ever successfully fitted into a Panther platform vehicle?" If it were an option on the 2012 500hp Marauder you would all be standing in line for it.

All options are possible until they are not.
(This is why scientists aren't TRUE scientists, they dismiss other possibilities for politics or ideology. For example "Global warming is a fact." "Mankind is harming the environment with CO2." Global warming is anthropogenic and not part of a natural cycle." and, last but not least "Evolution is fact and the only theory that should be taught or even considered.")

It must be nice to be RIGHT all the time.:flamer:

Blackened300a
06-29-2009, 02:15 PM
Hey, we both answered his 'reasonable' question in a non abusive way....well, I had to do a little editing on your reply, so we should be taken off his 'Ignore' list!
Being on his 'Ignore' list makes me feel so down and dejected....:alone:..:depress:
I hope that he takes me off of it soon!

I know, I hope a vacation isnt coming my way for the harsh language and abrasive behavior to a valued member of our community. Maybe I should make a public apology on our behalf so I can hopefully smooth things over and we can find a spot on his friends list instead of ignore. :alone:

Joe Walsh
06-29-2009, 02:16 PM
Wouldn't the LOGICAL question (without all the personal combat) be...
"Does anyone make a CVT transmission that was ever successfully fitted into a Panther platform vehicle?"
If it were an option on the 2012 500hp Marauder you would all be standing in line for it.
All options are possible until they are not.
(This is why scientists aren't TRUE scientists, they dismiss other possibilities for politics or ideology. For example "Global warming is a fact." "Mankind is harming the environment with CO2." Global warming is anthropogenic and not part of a natural cycle." and, last but not least "Evolution is fact and the only theory that should be taught or even considered."

It must be nice to be right all the time.:flamer:

Actually, I would NEVER want a CVT in a performance car, regardless if technology advanced enough to keep them alive in such an application.

There is nothing like running a great car through the gears and barking the tires on a shift!

Aren Jay
06-29-2009, 08:30 PM
Williams F1 back in 1993 tested CVT systems.

Phrog_gunner
06-29-2009, 08:48 PM
They have discussed sending a man to Mars for decades.

Aren Jay
06-29-2009, 10:10 PM
..........

cassidy
06-29-2009, 11:35 PM
I think shifts are power burps...why not have smooth steady power?
Shifts sound good but I would love to have no shifts...think of the simplicity...everything is moving towards fewer moving parts and efficiency. A CVT would be power and efficiency if it were reliable.

So, did anyone ever make a CVT for a Panther that would handle high torque? I would get one if my trans every completely failed.

Joe Walsh
06-30-2009, 04:23 AM
This is not the lounge.

Correct it is the 'Transmissions' forum...not the;

'Can I continue to dream' forum
'Pure mechanical fantasy' forum
'Transmission options for the 22nd century' forum

Let's discuss realistic options in this forum...OK?

"Replace the belt every run if need be"...Sure! That sounds like an easy swap at the track.

FordNut
06-30-2009, 05:29 AM
"Replace the belt every run if need be"...Sure! That sounds like an easy swap at the track.

Top fuelers and funny cars rebuild the engine between runs, so why couldn't you replace the transmission in a street car between runs? Just bring a spare transmission and while you're in the staging lanes the wife/gf/crew can disassemble the old one and replace the belt so the unit is ready to swap again after the next pass.

Joe Walsh
06-30-2009, 12:36 PM
Top fuelers and funny cars rebuild the engine between runs, so why couldn't you replace the transmission in a street car between runs? Just bring a spare transmission and while you're in the staging lanes the wife/gf/crew can disassemble the old one and replace the belt so the unit is ready to swap again after the next pass.

:rofl:

You are right...it is much easier process than I made it out to be.

Phrog_gunner
06-30-2009, 01:24 PM
Top fuelers and funny cars rebuild the engine between runs, so why couldn't you replace the transmission in a street car between runs? Just bring a spare transmission and while you're in the staging lanes the wife/gf/crew can disassemble the old one and replace the belt so the unit is ready to swap again after the next pass.

Or in this case, he could have the dungeon master/elf lord/gimp change it out in between runs.

Got_1
06-30-2009, 02:25 PM
aparantly you've never driven a car with a cvt transmission. the ford fivehundred/freestyle with the CVT tranny are the biggest dogs. they make alot of noise but dont go anywhere. they belong in snowmobiles.
also the funny thing is, when we were having all this trouble with CVT trannys ford wouldn't allow us to tear them apart. we had to send them back to ford and they would send us a new one. its like they didn't want us to see their "secret". anyways, smartest thing they did was discontinue the CVT.

ntd
07-01-2009, 02:01 PM
aparantly you've never driven a car with a cvt transmission. the ford fivehundred/freestyle with the CVT tranny are the biggest dogs. they make alot of noise but dont go anywhere. they belong in snowmobiles.
also the funny thing is, when we were having all this trouble with CVT trannys ford wouldn't allow us to tear them apart. we had to send them back to ford and they would send us a new one. its like they didn't want us to see their "secret". anyways, smartest thing they did was discontinue the CVT.

I have driven a Montego(mercury version of the five hundred) with a cvt and a friend of mine drove a 6 speed. The cvt was slightly faster made up some distance while the six speed was shifting. The problem is that generation of 3.0l engine is not really that fast. I have had this trans apart ford has allowed us to service parts of the trans as Volvo has stopped production of this trans. The problem is that any damage to ether the chain or one of two variators(the shaft with the cones that the chain rides on) will necessitate replacement of all three components which in most cases will go over the cost cap ford has set for trans repair. While this trans works fine in low torque applications there isn't enough friction that can be produced between the chain and variators for high torque applications

MrBluGruv
07-01-2009, 02:14 PM
I view CVTs kinad the same as rotary engines:

in theory, they are quite possibly the highest pinnacle of efficiency and form for their purpose,

but in practice, they just don't quite cut it all the way...

ntd
07-01-2009, 05:18 PM
The Volvo cvt trans is great and in the 4 years I have been at my dealership I have yet to see one in service problem. There are 2 problem that I have seen one is that our customer do not like the way the cvt has no shift unfortunately most people do not accept change well. Second is the Volvo cvt is made very strong which means more $$$. I really think Ford was ahead of the curve with this vehicle line up. Now that people want better mpg's there are many cvt in operation right now. All ford Hybrids have a different form of cvt trans.

shodude
07-02-2009, 09:33 AM
... cvt has no shift unfortunately most people do not accept change well.

i thought this was the reason ford cancelled the CVT. too many complaints.

Aren Jay
07-18-2009, 08:55 AM
CVT's don't so much as shift gears, but shift ratio points over a selected band of available points. I just thought a Drag racing shift ratio could be developed.

Given that the unhappy with change folk say that CVT's cannot handle massive torque, one must ask what the point of the massive torque is? Is it to get the vehicle moving with the gears or is it just to overcome the intital mass of the vehicle. Given that a Drag racing vehicle is made as light as possible and you have no gears perhaps a rethink is in order.

Anyhow I'm glad to see an actual discussion resulted from my first post.

Blackened300a
07-18-2009, 08:59 AM
Givent hat a Drag racing vehicle is made as light as possible and you have no gears perhaps a rethink is in order.

No rethink. Your question was if it would work on a Marauder. We answered no that it wouldnt since its a 4400lb vehicle.

Case closed. We can lock this one too.

Ms. Denmark
07-18-2009, 11:04 AM
If the Marauder (suspending reality now) came with a CVT, I for one, would never drive it. Drove the Freestyle once and couldn't stand the whine. My brain just kept waiting for the shift which never came. Like Joe said, part of the thrill and plain fun of driving is lost with the whole CVT thing.

Joe Walsh
07-18-2009, 12:05 PM
No rethink. Your question was if it would work on a Marauder. We answered no that it wouldnt since its a 4400lb vehicle.

Case closed. We can lock this one too.

Not so quick there Paul!

If we were to utilize a flat 8 engine layout or even the all-mighty VW Phaeton W12 engine then a CVT might work great...
especially if we gutted the Marauder and made a carbon fiber frame for it!!
Then the lower weight would help the CVT survive.

Besides.......As someone else (:rolleyes:) said....who needs massive torque?

Lets give this CVT idea another look!

nomad
07-18-2009, 02:02 PM
Not so quick there Paul!

:puke::puke:

Lets give this CVT idea another look!

:puke:

10,9,8,7,6,5,4,

CBT
07-18-2009, 04:48 PM
Not so quick there Paul!

If we were to utilize a flat 8 engine layout or even the all-mighty VW Phaeton W12 engine then a CVT might work great...
especially if we gutted the Marauder and made a carbon fiber frame for it!!
Then the lower weight would help the CVT survive.

Besides.......As someone else (:rolleyes:) said....who needs massive torque?

Lets give this CVT idea another look!

Someone get the charcoal pump and the crash cart, Joe done went and drank the Kool-Aid!!

justbob
07-18-2009, 04:58 PM
To me four gears isn't enough! Next up T56.