Big 3 Upgrade

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

How many of you audio guys have upgraded the MMs stock wiring under the hood?

Big 3 consists of upgrading,

1) Battery negative to chassis
2) Alternator to battery positive
3) Chassis to engine (ground point on alternator)

Going to give this a go when I have a free day.

Anyone know what gauge the stock wiring is, along with what out alternators output?

[in2deep]

How many of you audio guys have upgraded the MMs stock wiring under the hood?

Big 3 consists of upgrading,

1) Battery negative to chassis
2) Alternator to battery positive
3) Chassis to engine (ground point on alternator)

Going to give this a go when I have a free day.

Anyone know what gauge the stock wiring is, along with what out alternators output?

I remember back in the day reading about Taurus Sho's that did all these things and actually gained HP.

[DOOM]

Ask pops.

_

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Would make sense (maybe even better mileage) I guess because it should improve the spark on the spark plugs, if you're not getting above 13.8V under load.

[LOWBUCKMM]

when I had my crysler labaron I up graded the wiring and it did up the horse. And the lights dimming when the bass hits was almost un noticed. When you can do it. Take pictures and do a wright up for other to do it.

[cassidy]

That this makes no difference...if upping the horsepower were that easy everyone would have huge copper cables under the hood

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Ha, it will only matter on cars w/ borderline undersized stock wiring. Has anyone dyno'd just this upgrade? If it helps this particular car, its worth doing

[offroadkarter]

I know 2,4shofast put on some new battery cables, and he's audio smart....

[CBT]

I know 2,4shofast put on some new battery cables, and he's audio smart....

He can hear good?:dunno:

[ludwigvan968]

I believe this is an audio upgrade, not a performance upgrade. And yes I have done this on my MGM, also added a yellow top in the trunk which made a huge difference.

[logix7]

Did this on my 94 mgm, was only running 1000 w-rms so i used 4ga to upgrade the system. Made a very noticable differnce.

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Yeah, the only performance enhancement I would expect from this would be out of the audio, and lights not dimming when my bass hits.

My install tech buddy said our cars should already have 4 gauge wiring under the hood anyways(somehow I don't believe it), and I'd have to upgrade to 0/1 gauge to make any difference if at all. He is not a believer of the big 3 upgrade, and says that the best way to upgrade the electrical system would be to get a higher output alternator, and a red top optima.

But there are so many people on the web with "big 3 life changing" stories, that I would have to think it has to help at least some.

[2,4shofast]

I have done this on several vehicles and a few of mine as well, you will see a much better and stable current... I have recently upgraded my wiring on the Marauder but I really think these cars need a 200 or 250 amp alternator if you are running anything more than 1K watts regardless of wire gauge used. Just my .02 however.

[Peace2Peep]

I have a 200 amp PA Performace alternator. There is a huge and significant difference there. Most of the high performance alternator shops will not even warranty your hipo alternator if you havent upgraded the Big Three with at least 1/0 gauge wiring. I did it and all is well. It just makes good sense.

[xopher]

when I had my crysler labaron I up graded the wiring and it did up the horse. And the lights dimming when the bass hits was almost un noticed. When you can do it. Take pictures and do a wright up for other to do it.

On the topic of lights dimming, I noticed about a year into driving my MM that if I do a wide open throttle run from low speed, letting off between 70 and 90, the lights in the dash seem to dim (more noticeable at night of course). After less than 5 seconds everything is back to normal, but it got me wondering..

Is this normal? Should hitting the pedal heavy really draw my battery faster than my alternator can replenish it? Anyone else have this?

[WESTTXPATRIOT]

As far as audio goes to prevent dimming without all the upgrades to the battery and stuff all you have to do is add a capacitor to your system and all that dimming will be gone. you will see you your voltmeter gauge move when playing at higher volumes but it will not drop below 12 volts.

[blazen71]

On the topic of lights dimming, I noticed about a year into driving my MM that if I do a wide open throttle run from low speed, letting off between 70 and 90, the lights in the dash seem to dim (more noticeable at night of course). After less than 5 seconds everything is back to normal, but it got me wondering..

Is this normal? Should hitting the pedal heavy really draw my battery faster than my alternator can replenish it? Anyone else have this?

That is your alternator shutting off at WOT. It's in your tune! Supposed to be good for a couple HP.

[xopher]

That is your alternator shutting off at WOT. It's in your tune! Supposed to be good for a couple HP.

Ahhh, that makes sense. Thanks! :2thumbs:

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

As far as audio goes to prevent dimming without all the upgrades to the battery and stuff all you have to do is add a capacitor to your system and all that dimming will be gone. you will see you your voltmeter gauge move when playing at higher volumes but it will not drop below 12 volts.

I have an old 1 farad cap I'm using but the dimming seems to be much more visible as time goes on, and my volt gauge in the car lowers significantly when the bass doesn't even hit that hard. What's happened I think, is that the old cap has lost its internal resistance (lost it's ability to hold charge without discharging itself rapidly) and can not store as much as when new.

I've been on the fence on whether or not I should spend another $80, but this time on a 2 or 5 farad cap.

[Peace2Peep]

Caps are not a "Real" fix. Ask any car audio purist. I have used tem in the past and while they help with light dimming for a while, the light dimming is a different and much more complex problem.

Do you want unnecessary wear on the full electronics package of your $34,000 car? For some beats in the trunk? I would recommend an alternator replacement. I was just at my local mechanics shop and he told me he has replaced 4-5 alternators in the CVP state trooper cars because of the use of additional electronics. While this mechanic is not "Permitted" to use anything that isn't a factory part on state law enforcement repairs, there is a reason why ambulances have TWO alternators.

Just my 2-1/2 cents. But you know, Kenny has a stupendous sound system in his Marauder(BADMERC) and I don't think he has done an alternator, but I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time.

[-Matt-]

Caps are not a "Real" fix. Ask any car audio purist. I have used tem in the past and while they help with light dimming for a while, the light dimming is a different and much more complex problem.

Do you want unnecessary wear on the full electronics package of your $34,000 car? For some beats in the trunk? I would recommend an alternator replacement. I was just at my local mechanics shop and he told me he has replaced 4-5 alternators in the CVP state trooper cars because of the use of additional electronics. While he is not "Allowed"to use anything that isn't a factory part, there is a reason why ambulances have TWO alternators.

Just my 2-1/2 cents. But you know, Kenny has a stupendous sound system in his Marauder(BADMERC) and I don't think he has done an alternator, but I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time.




^^ hits the nail pretty much on the head ^^

Being as i am a part time mobile electronics installer (full time military) and i also have my MECP Advanced cert, let me try and give you guys some insite.

A cap is FAR from a real fix. Infact it sometimes will put your system in harm at times and doesnt ever give the needed "bummper" when used. It does however pull and strain your battery and charging system. The fix we normally use is the big 3 upgrade (yes it works, and yes its proven), bigger alt, and extra batterys/power cells. The big 3 upgrade is normally needed if your amp power wire is a bigger gauge wire then the rest of your charging system. So the rule of thumb would be that if your running 4ga amp wire, then you should big 3 upgrade to atleast 4ga.

Make any sense?






Edit: also some info. red and yellow top batterys (or anything else deep cycle) suck for audio systems. They will be spent in about a year with any decent system running off of it. Reason is that a "deep cycle" battery is used for "deep cycleing" i.e. a full drain and a full charge everytime. A sound system really only pulls very speratic whenever a big bass hits, etc. So, by running a battery/power cell thats made for that (kinetiks for example), you are charging the system better and will have by far more power available (no light dim, etc)

[ChiTownMaraud3r]

Thanks guys for backing up and confirming what I thought about caps.

I bought a Kinetik KHC2000 ( http://www.kinetikaudio.com/2009/product.asp?P=KHC2000&C=1 (http://www.kinetikaudio.com/2009/product.asp?P=KHC2000&C=1%29to) ) to replace my car battery, and will have completed the big 3 upgrade to 4 gauge tomorrow morning. The negative to the chassis ground wire used in our cars are pathetic. I should have done this upgrade when I first installed the system.

I started the car up with the power cell and could blast it to almost no dimming lights, before the big 3 upgrade. I will eventually remove the cap from the system, and still plan for no dimming while using the power cell.

[CBT]

Would there be a benefit to doing this if you run under drive pulleys and an electric water pump? Someone mentioned they wouldn't run both out of concerns the water pump might not be getting enough juice, would this simple upgrade help at all?


How many of you audio guys have upgraded the MMs stock wiring under the hood?

Big 3 consists of upgrading,

1) Battery negative to chassis
2) Alternator to battery positive
3) Chassis to engine (ground point on alternator)

Going to give this a go when I have a free day.

[-Matt-]

Would there be a benefit to doing this if you run under drive pulleys and an electric water pump? Someone mentioned they wouldn't run both out of concerns the water pump might not be getting enough juice, would this simple upgrade help at all?

Yes

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