the numbers are in

[ImpalaSlayer]

went to the dyno today today to get a retune for my headers and all the other crap i put on. and the car made 306hp and 295ftlbs. i now have a full bolt on car and feel the numbers are a little low. maybe its just me. the car would only allow 19 degrees of timing (crappy gas). would prolly get a little more outa it with good fuel. sorry for the pic, couldnt get the scanner to work so i took a pic of it.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/blaster250cr/IMG_0845.jpg

[Glenn]

So what happened to the Natzyman IT?? You're still short the 320 HP level - minimum to reach 12s. I'm sure the IT will put you over the top and a sure winner of the Glenn Ford $100 bill. Good luck with your build-up. When are you going to the track.

Glenn :burnout:

[ImpalaSlayer]

HA! knew youd be stopping by. i dunno doesnt apprear to be dooing much, hopefully it will when i finally do put a blower on. what is optimal timing for a N/A mm?

[Krytin]

Your A/F trace should be a lot straighter than that.
All of mine are rock steady - no dips or peaks from 3000 to 6300 rpm @ 12:1 A/F ratio.
If you can get your tuner to clean up your fuel delivery you might be able to pick up some more timing.

[ImpalaSlayer]

Your A/F trace should be a lot straighter than that.
All of mine are rock steady - no dips or peaks from 3000 to 6300 rpm @ 12:1 A/F ratio.
If you can get your tuner to clean up your fuel delivery you might be able to pick up some more timing.


define clean up my fuel delivery

[Krytin]

Get th A/F ratio trace on the bottom of your dyno sheet to make a straight line.
That would indicate a consistent amount of fuel over the entire rpm range alowing for consistent timing. Right now yours looks a little lumpy - 12 - 13:1 ratio up and down through the pull. He needs to look at the fuel tables to see if he can smooth that out.

I peak 270 hp @5100 rpm and 294 ft/lbs @4200 rpm with a 12:1 A/F ratio

[ImpalaSlayer]

Get th A/F ratio trace on the bottom of your dyno sheet to make a straight line.
That would indicate a consistent amount of fuel over the entire rpm range alowing for consistent timing. Right now yours looks a little lumpy - 12 - 13:1 ratio up and down through the pull. He needs to look at the fuel tables to see if he can smooth that out.

I peak 270 hp @5100 rpm and 294 ft/lbs @4200 rpm with a 12:1 A/F ratio


hmm ill have to talk to him about that

[RR|Suki]

N/A motor should be closer to 30 degrees of timing I should think

[mpearce]

Is 306RWHP with the Nazty intake installed? I made 300rwhp on the stock motor N/A...but a pretty aggressive (but safe) tune for 100 octane unleaded. I'd bet you'd pick up another 6-10rwhp on 100 octane, and an aggressive tune.

-Mat

[DOOM]

What gas were you running?
Who did your tune?

[ImpalaSlayer]

What gas were you running?
Who did your tune?

wawa 92, performance evolution did the tune.

[Blackened300a]

went to the dyno today today to get a retune for my headers and all the other crap i put on. and the car made 306hp and 295ftlbs. i now have a full bolt on car and feel the numbers are a little low. maybe its just me. the car would only allow 19 degrees of timing (crappy gas). would prolly get a little more outa it with good fuel. sorry for the pic, couldnt get the scanner to work so i took a pic of it.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/blaster250cr/IMG_0845.jpg

That A/F line is terrible! Ill sacan my dyno sheet to show you what it should look like when a tuner takes the time to do it right. Ill have my Naz intake Monday and install it next Saturday. I would think with headers and the intake you should have pulled better numbers then that.

[hot-rauder]

How come nothing ever works out great for you Dave?

Hope you get it sorted out. You should be pulling higher numbers....

[in2deep]

If you guys notice, the dyno operator had the smoothing level set on 3.
99% of dyno operators have it set to 5. Had this dyno run been set to 5, the wobbly AF line would probably have smoothed out and looked flat as a board.

This is a common practice in dyno land, it takes a really good tuner to make a flat line without smoothing.

BTW a standard 4.6 4v performance tune has 19 degrees of timing at the big end.

[ImpalaSlayer]

any one have a decent estimate of the power i should be making? i figured 315+ but it was pretty hot.

[bob6364]

We had a dyno day not to long ago and this guys Mach 1 pulled these numbers
Tom Hurst 2004 N/A Mach 1 1. 290rwh 310trq
2. 293rwh 316trq

He had minor bolt ons .....

These are pretty standard numbers for Tuned Machs with bolt ons and no headers I think

[sd8683]

We had a dyno day not to long ago and this guys Mach 1 pulled these numbers
Tom Hurst 2004 N/A Mach 1 1. 290rwh 310trq
2. 293rwh 316trq

He had minor bolt ons .....

These are pretty standard numbers for Tuned Machs with bolt ons and no headers I think

Was it a 5 spd or auto?

Dave your car still has the most HP that "I've" seen from a stock internal NA Marauder........ So don't be too disappointed :beer:

[bob6364]

oops sorry...thats why i picked that Mach I believe it had an auto in it....

[Blk Mamba]

Do you have your Ram Air set up on now, if so was a fan blowing on your air intake?

[ImpalaSlayer]

Do you have your Ram Air set up on now, if so was a fan blowing on your air intake?


nah never finished it. besides a fan wouldnt be nearly enough to make it benificial

[Joe Walsh]

Dave,
Looking at your dyno sheet, I see that they only ran it to 5700 rpm.
The NAZ intake is supposed to really show its' stuff at high rpm levels. (5500-7000 rpm)
They didn't really give the intake a chance to do much by shutting it down at 5700 rpm.
Unfortunately, your HP has leveled off and might even be dropping after 5700 rpm, so I don't think that revving it higher is going to help.
I think that the intake would work better when combined with a more agressive set of cams.

[Paul T. Casey]

Numbers seem low to me also, maybe the A/F, maybe weather, maybe... I'll try to find some of my dyno pulls, believe my peaks were 297 hp and 315 ftlbs. IMHO, the torque curve on your sheet stinks.

[Pops]

About 315 when I had the NA motor with the ported intake. I also think RPM is yo low. These motors work better up high.

[in2deep]

I bet a lot of spark can be added in from 1500-5000 and bump that torque up.

[ctrlraven]

Yeah your numbers should be higher than that. Get a full tank of brand name gas Exxon, Shell, BP and the AFR line a lot straighter. Also as being NA your torque should be higher than your horsepower, not less than it.

Fall of 2007 I was putting down around 287rwhp and 310tq on a Mustang dyno with 3rd gear lock 30mph-149mph (1500 rpms to 6520 rpms).

[FordNut]

It does look a bit low on HP/TQ and raggedy on the AFR.
I made 302/318, and most NA marauders have had higher tq than hp. But the short runner intake could possibly change that, I dunno.
Your power ought to continue to climb until about 6200 rpm, but since it starts to fall off at 5500-5700 there's no use in continuing to pull up to 6500 like most dyno pulls.

[juno]

I would be concerned about the torque. It should be 15-20 ft-lbs higher then it is at that hp.

[Paul T. Casey]

I would be concerned about the torque. It should be 15-20 ft-lbs higher then it is at that hp.

It should, IMHO, be higher for the full length of the pull. I'm hopin I have a graph somewhere nearby.

[ImpalaSlayer]

hmmm now im really confused. the TQ numbers concerned me as well. my pervious dyno with out the headers was 289hp/295tq. so how the eff did i loose tq by adding long tubes?

[Paul T. Casey]

hmmm now im really confused. the TQ numbers concerned me as well. my pervious dyno with out the headers was 289hp/295tq. so how the eff did i loose tq by adding long tubes?

Is that the only change?

[ImpalaSlayer]

no the intake, emp water pump, accufab tb and the 90mm mass air are all also new

[Paul T. Casey]

Don't know much about TB, the 90mm MAF may explain the a/f profile though. I recently "upgraded" to this, still have my doubts as to its value, and it took an azzload of time to get the a/f right on the dyno. Do you still have your stock one around? If so, throw it on and do a SOTP test. If anything, it'll get richer than crap, but maybe the proper adjustments weren't made in the tune for the 90. At any rate, you can't blow up rich, so nothing to fear.

[ImpalaSlayer]

i know he took some time to adjust for it. weather its all done correctly or something was overlooked i duno, what i did was take the stock cartridge out the housing and put it in the 90mm housing.

[in2deep]

what i did was take the stock cartridge out the housing and put it in the 90mm housing.


Maf elements are calibrated to their respective housings.
Had an 'untouched' 90mm maf been put on, the AF probably would have been dead nutz or real close with just a value file loaded in.

[ImpalaSlayer]

yes that is true how ever its just a matter of the circumfrice of the housing no?

[Blackened300a]

yes that is true how ever its just a matter of the circumfrice of the housing no?

The difference isnt worth doing the swap on a N/A car.

[ImpalaSlayer]

hey Paul, whered you get yours tuned?

[Glenn]

90 MAFs are just not worth the money or retune in a NA or even in alot of SC. 443 HP with stock MAF - no problem. TB show no real HP increase and again needs a retune - more money. Even MM&FF last month said the TB is just not worth the money for 2 HP even after a retune on a 4.6.

Glenn Ford :burnout:

[Blackened300a]

hey Paul, whered you get yours tuned?

Powersurge performance who closed down and moved to Florida. Now he dont answer emails or send tunes out anymore. :mad:
I hate having to think of trying to find another tuner I would trust and can do as great of a job he did.

[FordNut]

no the intake, emp water pump, accufab tb and the 90mm mass air are all also new

Meziere electric water pump will help you a little bit too.

[Vortech347]

A/F sucks ass, 19 degree's of timing!? thats what you run in a BLOWER car.

Even on smoothing 3 that AF should be ALOT flatter.

Also...why stop the pull so early? Take it to 6300, you've got the hardware for it now.

You can definatly tell the intake and LT's help like crazy, after 5000rpm it dosn't have that aweful dip.

[ImpalaSlayer]

ehhhh. i duno what to do.

[sd8683]

ehhhh. i duno what to do.

Dave do you have the dyno sheet from when he dyno'd it the first time? Just to compare the A/F line.

[ImpalaSlayer]

Dave do you have the dyno sheet from when he dyno'd it the first time? Just to compare the A/F line.

i do but on that graph its over time not rpm so it looks totaly different.

[Vortech347]

Wait, what do you mean over time?

[2,4shofast]

Tuning these cars seems to be very difficult for most people, I have had my car tuned 3 times already and it was all within about 6 months! $1500 later I can finally drive my car without worries, good luck bro and I hope you can get it all sorted out...I really want to see what your car puts down when it is tuned correctly, it should be very impressive:burnout:

[FormulaMarauder]

ehhhh. i duno what to do.
Road trip.

www.jandmmotorsports.com (http://www.jandmmotorsports.com)

[ImpalaSlayer]

over time as on the x axis of the old dyno sheet it reads time instead of RPM