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View Full Version : My Review of the 245/55/18 Camaro Spec Radial TA - Technical review and Road test



Stranger in the Black Sedan
08-08-2009, 07:26 PM
This is my technical and road test review of the $107/each 245/55/18 BF Goodrich Radial TA-Spec tires spec'd for the 2010 Camaro. I have my own tire machines and I performed the installation.

If you are not interested in my detailed impressions of the tire construction and want a quick summary, scroll down to the bolded SUMMARY at the end.

I have mounted 2 of the new Camaro spec radial TA 245/55/18s on my Marauder. I tested them in two configurations, configuration 1 as a front tire with all 245/55/18s on all 4 corners, and configuration 2, as the rear tires with stock 245/50/18s on the front. I wanted to test the Radial TA's on the front to see how well they handled, because it's hard to tell on just the rear how the sidewall stiffness compares to a KDWs.

Initial impressions of the 245/55/18 spec Radial TA - the Radial TA does not have molded in bead recesses in the sidewall to form bead protectors like the KDWs have (and like any other performance 18" tire I have ever seen)!! This means the sidewall of the Radial TA mounts less vertically than the KDWs and more in a traditional balloon-tire style bulge of a passenger car tire. Plus the rim edge of the forged stock wheels sticks waaay out from the tire. Not a good start.

Dismounting the KDWs. The KDWs our cars are equipped with from the factory, have extremely stiff sidewalls and very generously reinforced beads. It has always been very difficult to break the bead on KDWs tires for me, and they are such rigid sidewalls that even when I do break the bead, the tire wants to pop right back out on the wheel. Makes dismounting fun.

Mounting the Radial TA's. The radial TA's have a much skinner bead than the KDWs. The radial TA's have a very soft, spongey sidewall that was extremely easy to mount. I also had to dismount the radial TA's a few times for reasons I will describe below. The radial TA sidewalls are so soft that one quick pop with the pneumatic bead breaker on my tire machine, will unseat the entire bead on that side. Not at all like the rigid sidewalls of the KDWs that wanted to hold their shape when I would try to break the bead.


Balancing the Radial TA's. These are the worst constructed tires I have ever seen, as far as balancing. I checked the wheels I was using with a dial indicator, to make sure I knew I was using straight wheels. Spec for max radial runout at each bead seat is 0.020" and max lateral runout is 0.020" too I believe. My stock wheels measured less than 0.010" runout at each edge radially, and laterally. Most of the measurements were at less than 0.005" runout. These are very, very round wheels I am using here. I also spun balanced just the bare wheels with stems installed, to make sure there were no weight inconsistencies with just the wheels. There weren't. Ok I think we have established I am using perfect wheels for this write up.

The Radial TA's took an extreme amount of weight to balance. One took 5.75 ounces total and one took 5.25 ounces. I dismounted and re indexed each radial TA 3 times per wheel after the initial mount and balance, to see if there was any way to match mount the tires to reduce the amount of weight they needed. No amount of re indexing and re inflating (using a high quality euro paste bead lube) reduced the amount of weight these Radial TA's needed to balance. The 5+ ounces/wheel it took to balance each Radial TA is beyond horrible and indicates very poor construction of these tires. That is a LOT of lead. It can't be just rubber that is non uniformly distributed to cause that much imbalance in the tire itself, they must not be belted to a high degree of accuracy. For reference, the factory service manual from Ford for the 2003 Marquis/Marauder says to reject tires that can not be balanced at or under 2.00 oz/side. These tires aren't useable per that spec. For reference, my KDWs balanced with less than 2.00 oz total per total wheel. Almost 3x the weight to balance the radial TA's.

Shake test: I tried to rock the car side to side, with the weight of the car on the tires, with the KDWs 245/55/18 and then with the Radial TA 245/55/18. My very non scientific result is that there is far more sidewall flex with the radial TA than the KDWs. This is consistent with my experience dismounting and mounting the tires, that the Radial TA is far less stiff.

Driving impression:

Configuration 1- on the front: The Camaro 245/55/18 Radial TA on the front wheels makes the car ride much softer than a good condition stock pair of 235/50/18 KDWs, with much less road feedback. Cornering is quite noticeably reduced w/ the radial TA over the KDW. This is not a valid comparo because I am comparing not only a change in model but also the stock 235/50/18 KDWs to the 245/55/18 Radial TA but suffice it to say, the Camaro Spec 245/55/18 tire is a soft sidewall tire. Surprisingly, the car did not exhibit any bad vibes at speed (other than a very slight shimmy I have always had that is internal to the suspension and not a function of wheels/tires). Considering the amount of lead I had to put on these tires I was expecting worse.

Configuration 2 - on the rear with stock 235/50 fronts
I was unhappy with how the soft sidewalled 245/55/18 Camaro spec Radial TA caused my car to handle with these tires up front, so I relegated them to the rear, and put the good condition 235/50/18 KDWs back up front. The spongey sidewall of the Camaro spec tires is less objectionable on the rear than they were on the front. They look goofy because they do not have a bead recess to allow the sidewall to mount up nice and vertically, so they bulge out like a balloon. Traction is fine. I consider this configuration a fine low budget compromise if you really can't afford any other new tires for the back, but aesthetics, tire construction quality, and handling are not up to par with even the stock KDW so I would not othewise recommend these tires on the rear if you can afford a better option.


SUMMARY: This is not a quality tire that I would recommend for performance use. The low T speed rating is consistent with the wimpy thin beads on the tire and the soft, flexible sidewalls. The construction quality is very lacking compared to the same size KDWs OEM Marauder tire. The KDWs balances with very little weight on a good quality wheel, whereas the Radial TA took so much weight to balance it was almost un-useable. The sidewall of the Radial TA is far less reinforced than the KDWs and will negatively impact handling. For GM to have passed over the KDWs and used this spec Radial TA, they are really cutting corners on the V6 2010 camaro. The KDWs is a far superior tire in all aspects to this spec Radial TA.

I would use the Radial TA on the rear only, if you can't afford anything else. It will be safer than a bald KDWs.

Overall I am extremely disappointed in this spec Radial TA. It is a US made tire and although it had a lower speed rating than the Marauder should really use, there is no excuse for manufacturing flaws that cause such a poor end product.

Added: Here are some pictures of the installed Radial TA's, with annotations

1. No bead protector on these tires, so they bulge out like a balloon and your wheel is just hangin out

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/shylin01/2003%20Mercury%20Marauder/Radial%20TAs/TASs8.jpg

2. Another shot of the lack of bead protector and resulting bulgy sidewall

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/shylin01/2003%20Mercury%20Marauder/Radial%20TAs/TAs9.jpg

3. & 4. Tires on the car

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/shylin01/2003%20Mercury%20Marauder/Radial%20TAs/TAs4.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/shylin01/2003%20Mercury%20Marauder/Radial%20TAs/TAs5.jpg

5. 5.75 oz. worth of wheel weights on this one. Although it may not look like that much weight at a glance, these are HALF OUNCE tape weights, not the 1/4 oz tape weights shops will use. There would be twice as many 1/4 oz weights on this wheel and they would wrap a quarter turn around the wheel.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/shylin01/2003%20Mercury%20Marauder/Radial%20TAs/TAs6.jpg

6. Close-up showing how thick the 1/2 oz tape weights are I had to use. This is 3.50 oz on one side of the wheel that took 5.75 oz total.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/shylin01/2003%20Mercury%20Marauder/Radial%20TAs/TASs7.jpg

7. Factory tire lathing marks on one tire, presumably to correct an excess runout condition. This tire took the most weight to balance

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/shylin01/2003%20Mercury%20Marauder/Radial%20TAs/TAs1.jpg

Black_Noise
08-08-2009, 07:37 PM
They sound like crap.... thanks for the warning..... and OMG that is retarded about of weight to balance, not even my 02 Ram with 20s and Goodyears took 4.75 on one and I thought that was bad

Phrog_gunner
08-08-2009, 07:41 PM
Thanks for the review.....and thanks for taking one for the team and trying them out...Are you planning on using them for burn outs now??

Stranger in the Black Sedan
08-08-2009, 07:44 PM
Yes I am putting these tires on the rear, putting my 15k mile KDWs back on the front, and I will run em until there isn't anything left on them. That will give me enough time to save up for a set of 4 something else that is a real speed rated, ultra high performance tire.

Phrog_gunner
08-08-2009, 07:53 PM
Yeah I think Ill be getting a set of stockers to put me over until I can get a set of rims widened and then run nittos

babbage
08-08-2009, 07:56 PM
Wow thanks for the writeup. I knew something was up when I saw the T rating. IMHO you should get at least H rated tires as they have many more "layers" or plys and are a safer tire even if you don't go 130.

I noticed my KDWS are getting a bit worn in the middle - I have 50K on them and I think they might be the second set. Call me a fool but I'm gonna get the BFG's KDWS soon. Anyone know how many BFG produced?


p.s. what with vibes and all - did you notice vibration go away with your MMC shaft yet?

Stranger in the Black Sedan
08-08-2009, 07:57 PM
I finally found a cheap, good condition MMC shaft. It came in the mail the other day and it is the correct pink/green/blue paint code. It was like $65 and it has brand new U joints in it. Maybe I'll put it in tomorrow. I have been spending all of my time on the 76 Firebird I just got back on the road with a new engine

TAKEDOWN
08-08-2009, 08:44 PM
Thanks for the heads up!

MM03MOK
08-08-2009, 08:54 PM
Please copy your review into the Review section under Tires. Easier to find later for reference.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/reviews/

FormulaMarauder
08-08-2009, 10:31 PM
Great writeup, strange results on some. Maybe it's because you put the rear size up front that you experienced some flaws. My tire mounter put 1.0 on the rear tires, WAAAAAAAAAAY lower than yours. I saw him do it, he actually commented about how very easy they were to get done. I agree the KDWS is a better tire, but for someone who needs to putz around, these are a fine replacement cheaper alternative.

Stranger in the Black Sedan
08-08-2009, 10:33 PM
A wheel is a wheel, the fronts vs rears won't matter, they are the same size wheels at all 4 corners. My wheels are as true and round as could be and did not have much imbalance at all due to the wheel when I spun them alone. Tires from different batches will be different. The fact that tires this bad got out the door, is what worries me. One of the tires had factory lathing marks on it half way around, because it must have failed BFG's QC for runout, so they shave the tire down if it can be brought into spec for runout. That tire that had the lathing correction marks on it, took more weight than the other. You can see that even after they lathed it back to runout specifications, that only half of the circumference was even touched by their tire lathe. I am sure Discount Tire will swap these out for me, I have sent tires back to them before because of tire construction issues, but I'm not sure if its even worth it.

mrjones
08-09-2009, 06:55 AM
I wonder if the T/As will wear in the center on the rears the way the KDWS do.

burt ragio
08-09-2009, 08:49 AM
Vicsevilbrother thanks for taking your time & sharing your findings. I would write the tire co. a letter asking for a full refund due to excessive weight needed to correct balance when the Marauder manual specs out 2 oz or less. That's a sht load of weight.

SC Cheesehead
08-09-2009, 03:04 PM
Interesting comments on the balancing issues you had with the TAs. I ran 60-series TAs on my custom Econoline back in the the late 70's and had similar balancing issues; ended up going through two sets of rears to finally get resolved.

Thanks for the write-up, good stuff. :up:

252life
08-09-2009, 04:19 PM
5.75 ounces :eek: that's a lot off weight, that's 160 gram!
I used to work in a tire shop and I don't think I have ever balanced a tire that took more than 90 gram and those were usually heavy retreaded tires.

UncleLar
08-09-2009, 06:06 PM
A wheel is a wheel, the fronts vs rears won't matter, they are the same size wheels at all 4 corners. My wheels are as true and round as could be and did not have much imbalance at all due to the wheel when I spun them alone. Tires from different batches will be different. The fact that tires this bad got out the door, is what worries me. One of the tires had factory lathing marks on it half way around, because it must have failed BFG's QC for runout, so they shave the tire down if it can be brought into spec for runout. That tire that had the lathing correction marks on it, took more weight than the other. You can see that even after they lathed it back to runout specifications, that only half of the circumference was even touched by their tire lathe. I am sure Discount Tire will swap these out for me, I have sent tires back to them before because of tire construction issues, but I'm not sure if its even worth it.
I'm surprised they turned those tires to true them,but way back when I was a kid some of the better tire shops had a machine to true the tires.
I'm can't prove it but I was told a long time back that the auto manufacturers get the top quality tires for the new cars because they buy so many and if their are any very minor cosmetic flaws those get sent to the stores.I know back in the 70's I used to buy Blems fairly cheap because for some reason I used to go thru tires kind of quickly.:burnout::burn::drive:

offroadkarter
08-09-2009, 07:38 PM
dont you wish you got the 420's? :D

Stranger in the Black Sedan
08-10-2009, 04:58 AM
Uncle Lar, I read online from the viewpoint of a guy who used to work for GM mounting and balancing tires on new cars, that they would reject tires that took more than a certain amount of weight to balance (his example was 5 ounces for some application). Since the Radial TA-spec is a tire used as an OE tire on the 2010 Camaro, I wonder if the stock that is going to be sold to the general public will be chock full of tires that passed BFG's "quality control" but GM rejected. Or the tire is just not that well controlled when they make it anyway.

This radial TA is completely different from the 1970's radial TA, at least in tread pattern. It is its own new tire only made in this size. But yeah I have had several sets of BFG traction TA's in recent history that took a ton of weight to balance as well. Maybe coincidence, maybe not.

Karter, your tires are a much better quality tire I'm sure but the 255/55 is way too tall-looking for me. I really like the way my car looks with 245/55/18s on all 4 corners.

Surprisingly the Radial TA's do not shake at speed even though they took so much weight to balance. But the car handles very soft and rolls a lot more w/ the Radial TA-specs on the front. I am going to move them to the rear and put 235/50 KDWs back on the front and I will comment on how they do.

I wrote a letter to the company I sourced the tires from informing them of how hard the Radial TA-specs were to balance and I don't doubt they will swap them out for me. If that happens I will also comment on whether the replacements are any better.

But it's still a tire that does not seem to be stiff enough to maintain the OE Marauder ride.

Marauderjack
08-10-2009, 07:11 AM
Please send a copy of your review to BFG!!!:argue:

rayjay
08-10-2009, 05:24 PM
Thanks for the review. I was thinking of getting a pair of these for the burn out value, but maybe not.

CoreyM75
08-10-2009, 08:17 PM
Thank you for taking the hit for me. I am not looking to get a set now.

Stranger in the Black Sedan
08-14-2009, 09:27 AM
For burnouts or temporary tires if you absolutely need something to drive on while you are saving up for a set of 4 good tires, these tires will work. I just can not recommend them because their sidewall stiffness and construction are, in my mind, not at all up to par for a performance oriented car, especially a heavy performance oriented car like the Marauder. I wrote a letter to BFG and they got back to me and agreed that the weight to balance was at the high end of allowable for a car tire. I also talked to Discount Tire and they said they will take them back if I have a problem with them. I threw them on the rear and will probably only run these for a short time until I decide what speed rated tire to run.

It's clear comparing the KDWs and the radial TA side by side, that the KDWs has much more reinforcement in the sidewalls and bead area, and that it was built to be a performance tire whereas the radial TA is just basically a large version of a passenger car tire that you would put on some 4 door bland mobile.

Joe Walsh
08-14-2009, 09:38 AM
Steve,
I see that you finally wore out my/your/our P245 OEMs....?

Stranger in the Black Sedan
08-14-2009, 09:52 AM
Nope they still have probably 4/32" tread in the middle and a lot more on the edge, but they are so rock hard I have had too many close calls with this car on wet or dry road, kicking the rear out. These 2002 dated tires are hard like cement. I am going to vacuum bag them and save them until people are restoring these cars and looking for date coded tires.

offroadkarter
08-14-2009, 11:55 AM
I am going to vacuum bag them and save them until people are restoring these cars and looking for date coded tires.



Are you serious!? :D

Stranger in the Black Sedan
08-14-2009, 11:56 AM
Yes, I absolutely am. These tires have enough tread that they would be appropriate to use on a concours resto in the future. They will be worth some money, especially since the KDWs was so hard to come by even when it was produced.

Joe Walsh
08-14-2009, 04:20 PM
Yes, I absolutely am. These tires have enough tread that they would be appropriate to use on a concours resto in the future. They will be worth some money, especially since the KDWs was so hard to come by even when it was produced.

Go for it!.....:beer:

Like you said...how many sets of '2002' date coded P245 KDWS are still out there with decent tread on them?

A concours car won't be driven on the road anyway, so the hardeness of the rubber is no concern.
I am amazed at how long those KDWS P245 have lasted!
I know that I put a decent number of 1/4 mile trips, including a brief clean-up burnout before staging, on them!

Stranger in the Black Sedan
08-14-2009, 08:15 PM
I have put about 15k on them since you sold them to me, including more than a few sideways slides through intersections. Actually offroadkarter was the most recent one to get my car loose enough to make me poop my pants.

Stranger in the Black Sedan
01-17-2012, 11:36 AM
I haven't been active on this board in years (the Marauder hasn't given me any real problems to need to look into) but I was just thinking today about this old thread I had started, so I figured I'd chime in, as it's been about 2.5 years since I first wrote this review on the cheapo Camaro 245/55/18 spec TA T rated tires for use on a Marauder, and I see the occasional thread showing people are still curious if these are an OK tire to use on the rear of a Marauder.

I have put 10,000 miles on my rear Camaro-spec 245/55/18 BFG TA's since 8/2009 when I installed them. The tread depth is near-new still, this looks like a tire that is going to last a long time due to it being a glorified large passenger car, non performance design. The actual useable tread width of this 245 tire is far less than a performance 245 tire because "245" is usually the "section width" or widest point of the tire, not the actual tread width measurement. These tires have more like a P225 actual tread width on them. I still hate the way these tires look on the car (skinny, bulgy, and cheap. It looks like a scaled up version of a regular passenger car tire you'd see on a Buick Century) and I still agree after driving on them for a while that they are nowhere near as stiff as any kind of performance tire (with a T speed rating and their obvious non-performance construction this isn't a surprise). But I have not found them to be unsafe or uncomfortable, and despite the unbelievable amount of weight my pair took to balance (almost 6 oz/wheel) they have held their balance and have not developed any vibrations.

So my updated review is, this is still a fine tire if you just want new rubber, don't want to spend much money, and don't care about performance, but if you have any other, more premium tire to choose from, take it (Nitto's are popular and I have been a scared-***less passenger in another Marauder shoed w/ Nittos as the driver showed me their wet and dry weather grip, which was quite impressive).

RoyLPita
01-17-2012, 11:53 AM
Thanx for the update.

Don't be a stranger.:D

Stranger in the Black Sedan
01-17-2012, 11:59 AM
Thanks. I spread my time pretty thin on here because the old v8 chevies I'm usually working on take up all my car-related time. The Marauder just sits in the garage till I drive it and generally behaves itself, so I don't have to go online and complain about it too often.

RoyLPita
01-17-2012, 12:01 PM
How is the Iroc coming along?

Stranger in the Black Sedan
01-17-2012, 12:03 PM
Oh ha I already sold that and bought this last week.

http://bondospecial.smugmug.com/1989TransAm/First-day-home/i-52p8kXt/0/XL/89-TA-004-XL.jpg

which I have an engine and trans I already built for it (350 chevy, roller motor, holley stealth ram intake/efi, 700R I built) that I will swap soon

a_d_a_m
01-17-2012, 12:24 PM
^my dad would be jealous. That's one of his all-time favorite cars, though he would want a white one.

Stranger in the Black Sedan
01-17-2012, 12:26 PM
I like white trans ams a lot too. I couldn't pass this one up though @ the price and condition. It's hard to find third gens that are reasonably priced yet not beaters...this has an all original, near perfect interior to boot.

RoyLPita
01-17-2012, 12:42 PM
Oh ha I already sold that and bought this last week.

http://bondospecial.smugmug.com/1989TransAm/First-day-home/i-52p8kXt/0/XL/89-TA-004-XL.jpg

which I have an engine and trans I already built for it (350 chevy, roller motor, holley stealth ram intake/efi, 700R I built) that I will swap soon

Smugmug is blocked at work.

BTW, update your signature. :D

Phrog_gunner
01-17-2012, 12:57 PM
I like white trans ams a lot too. I couldn't pass this one up though @ the price and condition. It's hard to find third gens that are reasonably priced yet not beaters...this has an all original, near perfect interior to boot.

Have you ever done a conversion to TPI, say like from a 3d Gen that was TBI?

Stranger in the Black Sedan
01-17-2012, 12:58 PM
That would be too easy. I have converted my TBI 1988 K1500 to TPI, and my 79 Camaro which was carbed to a TPI-based system.

Here are pics of the truck TPI setup. It's a fresh 350 roller cam motor and it pulls hard!

http://bondospecial.smugmug.com/1988-Chevy-K1500/Smog-delete-and-935k6-belt-and/17569079_cx96Rz#!i=1337862009&k=Bf7Nk2v

Phrog_gunner
01-17-2012, 01:09 PM
That would be too easy. I have converted my TBI 1988 K1500 to TPI, and my 79 Camaro which was carbed to a TPI-based system.

Here are pics of the truck TPI setup. It's a fresh 350 roller cam motor and it pulls hard!

http://bondospecial.smugmug.com/1988-Chevy-K1500/Smog-delete-and-935k6-belt-and/17569079_cx96Rz#!i=1337862009&k=Bf7Nk2v (http://bondospecial.smugmug.com/1988-Chevy-K1500/Smog-delete-and-935k6-belt-and/17569079_cx96Rz#%21i=133786200 9&k=Bf7Nk2v)

Well then maybe you can help me. I have a 91 RS 5spd (orig TBI). I put a 335 roller TPI motor in it (factory TPI engine wiring harness). I'm having problems with the speedo/tach accuracy. This project has been sitting for YEARS because I wound up joining the military and leaving the country. The end of my research I think I found that the TBI setup has the speedo "module" actually in the dash wiring harness, and the TPI setup has one in the ECU itself. Is that true?

Phrog_gunner
01-17-2012, 01:12 PM
That's a nice TPI setup in the truck, btw. :beer:

Stranger in the Black Sedan
01-17-2012, 01:13 PM
I'd need more info. What style TPI did you convert to (1985, 1986-89, or 1990-92), what year harness did you use, what part# ECM, what PROM code, and is the VSS in the trans original to the TBI setup? At some point GM may have changed from a 2 to 4 pulse vss, I'd have to look that up. My TBI truck's VSS was the correct pulse count for the #165 mass air TPI ECM and the dash remained accurate. I'd have to look at a wiring diagram for your 91 to see where the dash gets its VSS signal from, gimme a couple days I'll look into it. Send me an email at bondospecial@gmail.com telling me more about your setup.

Phrog_gunner
01-17-2012, 01:15 PM
I'd need more info. What style TPI did you convert to (1985, 1986-89, or 1990-92), what year harness did you use, what part# ECM, what PROM code, and is the VSS in the trans original to the TBI setup? At some point GM may have changed from a 2 to 4 pulse vss, I'd have to look that up. My TBI truck's VSS was the correct pulse count for the #165 mass air TPI ECM and the dash remained accurate. I'd have to look at a wiring diagram for your 91 to see where the dash gets its VSS signal from, gimme a couple days I'll look into it. Send me an email at bondospecial@gmail.com telling me more about your setup.

Sweet, thanks.

TrueBlue
12-12-2016, 05:22 PM
I already ordered the BF Goodrich Radial T/A Spec tires before finding this thread and thought an update here would be helpful. Since the KDWS are no longer available, I wanted to stay with the BF Goodrich brand by combining the rear P245/55R18 T/A's with the new g-Force Comp-2 A/S directional tires in the front (P235/50ZR18). On the rear, the T/A load index rating is 102 (1874 lbs) vs 103 (1929 lbs) for the original KDWS. Because the load index for front tires is 97 (1609 lbs), I didn't think the rear 55 pound difference would matter that much. The tires are getting installed in two days and hopefully I won't have any problems. Below are the links for each BF Goodrich tire.


https://shop.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire/bf-goodrich/radial-t-a-spec

https://shop.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire/bf-goodrich/g-force-comp-2-a-s

88LTDCV351
12-12-2016, 05:45 PM
The only place left I know of where you can get the front KDWS tires is here. https://simpletire.com/catalog?year=2003&make=Mercury%20&model=Marauder&option=Base%20Front&select=1&zip=95035&brand=9&query=catalog Its where I got my last set.