Startup clanking

[GetMeMyStogie]

Recently, my '03 MM has started making a weird clanking noise for just a moment after startup. After 1 or 2 seconds, the noise goes away, and I never hear it again until the next cold startup. I tried searching for threads describing this problem, but found just one reference from many years ago, and it provided no real clues.

So, has anyone heard of this before?

In the video, you can hear the clanking at 0:11, and again at 0:48.
2tPy6IwtN6Q (http://www.youtube.com/v/2tPy6IwtN6Q)

[TiTo35]

Check your plugs?
My other car use to make a noise like that when I needed oil so check that too.

[Bradley G]

The first one(clanky sound) sounds like the normal chatter before the oil circulates to the moving parts.
The one at 0:48 would have me concerned.
If it is indeed noise from the engine.
The second sound wasn't the A/C compressor cycling , was it?
This would be enough time, for the oil to be everywhere it is supposed to be.

[a_d_a_m]

My guess:
Timing chain tensioners/guides.

How many miles are on your car?

[Blackened300a]

I had my car to the dealer for a similar noise on cold starts. Turned out to be the starter for me. Listening to it more and more, I think you may be low on oil.

I hope its minor.

[GetMeMyStogie]

Thanks for the ideas, fellas. I'll try to check out the plugs, a/c compressor or some other very loud relay, and the starter.
Would worn timing chain tensioners or guides cause that kind of clanking, only when cold, for only a couple seconds? Would it be that loud, and would it still happen on a cold restart? I'm not sure this one matches all the symptoms.
Btw, I checked the oil level, and it's a touch above the max fill line.

[JUST 1BULLITT]

Wow Dude, bummer -- KEEP on it for sure to find what it is...as you ARE doing...at least you're good on the oil for sure -- weird, check those other items the gang has already mentioned; that fact it only does it at COLD start up narrows it some but still hard to pinpoint. GOOD LUCK and keep us posted.

[RF Overlord]

I agree with Paul (Blackened300a)...sound like the starter.

Doesn't sound like chains/tensioners at all. IMHO. YMMV.

[4play]

mine does the exact same thing, right now, it is the starter, i took mine out took it apart cleaned it with brake clean and re greased some parts and the noise ws gone for a few days, but now it's doing it again. i'm gana try greeseing it one more time if it starts again i'm going to just replace it.

[GetMeMyStogie]

I had a close listen while my wife started the car a few times. The noise does seem to come from the back of the motor, although it seemed to be a bit higher up than the starter.
Still, it does sound like perhaps the flywheel whacking the starter gear. I'm not sure why the starter gear would engage the flywheel after startup, unless the mechanism that retains it broke. Looks like I'll be yanking the starter this weekend.

[justbob]

Your welcome.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53702&highlight=starter

[GetMeMyStogie]

Okay, so 6 weekends later I finally got around to yanking the starter and taking it apart. First of all, contrary to:

Don't worry nothings gonna fly out at you
in http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forum...hlight=starter (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53702&highlight=starter)
some things did fly out of the starter when I opened it up.
But, more importantly, after fixing it up, the clanking is gone! Yay! Thanks fellas - I would have never figured this one out on my own :beer:

Now, for the nitty gritty. And, no, there are no pictures. I was out on the street, it was about 5ºC and getting dark, and it only took about 5 minutes to take apart the starter, fix it, and put it back together - taking pictures would have made it take much longer. I'll describe the fix as best I can.

After removing the starter from the engine bay, I put it on the sidewalk, and removed the 2 8mm bolts holding the large can and the endplate to the starter mounting plate. What I didn't know is that the mounting plate contains a planetary gear system inside. The planetary gears are secured, quite weakly, by a separator plate that presses onto 2 small plastic pins that are part of the gearbox. As soon as I took the motor can off, the separator plate came with it and the planetary gears fell out onto the sidewalk. Also, in the very centre of the planetary gearbox is a ball bearing, which also came out. After yelling :censor:, I gathered up the gears and ball bearing, cleaned the grit off, and put them back into the gearbox, and pressed the separator plate back on, and put it aside carefully.

On to the real problem...
The other half of the starter consists of the can, armature, brushes and backplate. I pulled the can, to which the magnets are stuck, away from the backplate and armature. I kept the the backplate and armature together, and put them aside.

Now for a close look at the can and magnets....Ahhh HAAA! No, there were no broken pieces of magnet, though there was a minor buildup of magnet flecks, from being rubbed the wrong way, on one magnet in particular. But, there was something else different about that magnet.

I've seen electrical motors where the magnets were glued to the can, or where the can was punched to hold the magnets permanently in place, but this starter isn't like that.
Inside the can there are 6 (or was it 7) straight 'ribs' welded lengthwise and equally spaced around the inner circumference. The ribs are about 4 inches shorter than the length of the can, and about 2 inches from either end, so roughly centered lengthwise, and their height is the same as the magnets are thick. About the same size as a welded rib, and found right next to it is a stainless retainer. Then, between a retainer and the next rib is the magnet. And this is repeated 6 or 7 times around the inside of the can. Each retainer is like a piece of U-shaped channel, and is actually about a 1/2" longer than a rib. The walls of the channel are cut about a 1/4" from each end, and the wall ends are bent outwards to form the retaining mechanism (forming an I shape).

The problem with my starter was that one of the magnets had worked it's way free of its retainer, and was able to slide up through the 2 inches of free space towards the backplate, where I suppose it wasn't held firmly against the can anymore and was able to slap against the armature, causing the noise. Something like that, anyway - I'm not exactly sure how the noise was made.

So, the fix was to push the magnets all back into alignment with the inner ribs of the motor can, and bend the little retaining clip ends outwards (flat) to more positively align the magnets and the ribs. The retaining clip material seemed to be quite soft, not like the spring-steel you'd expect it be made of, so I bent them a lot, maybe 45º.

After that, I put the starter back together, bolted it back into the car, hooked up the cables and that was that.
First start - no startup clanking. It's been a couple days, and still no clanking. I think it's fixed for good.
Cost wise, this was a zero dollar, 90 minute fix. Minus 10 minutes bringing equipment to the street and cleanup afterwards, and minus about 60 minutes yanking the starter (stupid middle starter bolt was crossthreaded or miscut or something - it actually got harder to turn as it came out, until the last 1 or 2 turns. Looked like it had some solid aluminum threadlocker on it, once I had it out).

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction :beer:

[justbob]

Well I should have said..........Nothing jumped outa mine? Anyways, sounds like yours was way worse than mine. Glad you got it fixed.