Cover your VIN number

[Mikeenh]

I just watched a program on Datline about stealing cars. All you need to do is read the VIN through the windshield and ask a dealer to make you a key for that car. Almost ALL dealers did this with no proof of ownership. One dealer even gave them the code over the phone to have a key made by a locksmith.
For the price of a key......new Marauder for somebody.
I'll be putting a piece of black tape over my VIN in the morning.

[cyclone03]

Except you have to have the key programed by the dealer to start the car.
The PATS system will not take an unprogrammed key.

[CRUZTAKER]

Cyclone, I think that's the point Mike is trying to make.>>>>


Originally posted by Mikeenh
....... Almost ALL dealers did this with no proof of ownership.

I may do the tape thing as well. It can always be peeled off if an LEO needs to see it....in person that is.

[cyclone03]

But you need the car on hand to program the key.

[TheDealer]

I've worked in a Lincoln Mercury Dealer for 35 years. I think this program is BS. I don't know anyone that would give out the key code over the phone let alone make a key without ID. Second, making a key for a car with a PATS system is worthless. The car won't start. Once you persist, the car goes into theft mode and not even the real key will start it. Back in the seventies people used to break into cars and get the key codes out of the owners manual. You'd find your car broken into but nothing taken. Two days later your car was gone. I used to make keys for repo people but now with the PATS system they can't even get the car. The best thing for theft is LOJACK!!!

[03SILVERSTREAK]

That might be true in some sates but in NYS we have no choice . all NYS vehicle registrations have their vin# posted on our reg: stickers on the winshields . this was done to prevent perps from illegally trying to hide the vin# to properly I.D. stolen veh: and to properly issue parking tickets in NYC . :bs: :shake: :down:

[BillyGman]

please let me know if I'm missing something here, but if it IS true that anyone can get a key from a dealer(perhaps that's debateable in light of what's been said) then wouldn't the perpetrator simply be able to take the key, break into the car, and program the key while it's in the ignition?(provided that the owner has left the owners manual in the glove box which gives instructions on how that's done).

[BigMerc]

Actually you cannot cover your vin by law, not sure for all states but thats why it is visible thru the windshield

[SergntMac]

I spoke about this about a year ago...

Please don't do it.

Don't cover your dash VIN.

"Covering" your dash VIN in my jurisdiction can lead to your arrest, and a possibility of criminal charges, misdemeanors at the least. Your dash VIN is displayed here for a reason. Conceal it (or, those pesky EPA stickers on your door jam) and you're likely to face grounds for arrest here in Chicago.

Perhaps you'll not get charged after some stationhouse discussions. But, surely you will be late for your intended destination.

And likewise surely, you will not agree with the semi-apologetic explanation from the Watch Captain releasing you from police custody as you clean the fingerprint ink from your hands.

You don't need to got through all this, please leave your VIN visible for the police? This will help police recover your stolen MM, yes?

I'm sure the press means well here, but this path to absconding with your MM is much less threatening to you than you think.

A simple alarm system would halt the would be thief in his tracks. Moreover, the auto theft market is driven by re-marketing today, and for the moment, MMs are not a vehicle of choice for the fast turn-around auto thieves active today depend on.

It's a rare automobile with hard to locate replacement parts, which are closely monitored by the manfacturer.

Once a call for replacement/repair parts comes from a foreign soil where the MM was not marketed, "the jig is up."

IMHO, get a decent alarm system. Not one that makes a lot of noise, no one listens to that anymore. But, an alarm system that offers severe visible deterrents first, and a sure lockout after, any attempt to borrow your MM. They are not that pricey, and they work. Please don't cover/conceal your VIN, that's bad stuff, K?

If you own a Jeep...

[XxColdAzFireXx]

Originally posted by TheDealer
The best thing for theft is LOJACK!!!

LOJACK is great, unless you live in South Florida. By the time you realize you car is gone, it's already in a shipping container, on a boat, headed for South America. Unless you realize your car is gone within an hour, that car is history. And if it doesn't get shipped it gets chop shopped and then burned (which does not get rid of finger prints).

[Agent M79]

Good advice from SergntMac.

For reasons unclear to me still, I seem to get caught up in checkpoints frequently in my area. Twice already since I got the MM.

After checking my license, CCW, and registration, they flashlight the inspection sticker and VIN through the windshield, and then go back and check the plate.

I think they check the VIN to make sure it is not obscured or "tampered" with because they don't look at it long enough to read it or compare it to the registration (or maybe they just check the last couple of digits).

All I know is my interior lights are on, my windows down, my hands are on top of the wheel at 11 and 1, my eyes are forward, and I am polite and don't make any quick moves. I hate misunderstandings with people with sticks, pepper spray, and guns.

[jgc61sr2002]

Originally posted by ADELG670
That might be true in some sates but in NYS we have no choice . all NYS vehicle registrations have their vin# posted on our reg: stickers on the windshields . this was done to prevent perps from illegally trying to hide the vin# to properly I.D. stolen veh: and to properly issue parking tickets in NYC . :bs: :shake: :down: It is illegal to cover the VIN in NY State and probably most others. After the key is cut it must be programmed and the dealer must have all the keys and remotes. I don't belive a locksmith can program the keys. Remember if they want your car they can get it. Lojack is the best recovery system. All NYPD marked vehicles are equipped with the tracking system.

[Bigdogjim]

Locks keep honest people honest. But, they won't stop a thief. :(

[jparrie]

Hi all,

On programming PATS keys......

The only way to program a new PATS key without already having two previously programmed keys on hand is with special equipment.

In order to program a single key if crafty enough to get one from a dealer without proof of ownership the equipment you need is a NGS Star tester, a WDS, T-Code, or Ilco SDD. These devices run from about $3000.00 to $10,000 depending on which one you choose. I own a NGS and a T-Code.

FMC Dealers will usualy have a few NGS's and a WDS in their shop, Many locksmiths are now using one of the above, and I've even seen some repo companies so equipped.

No matter which tool you use, there is a 10 minute countdown that has to take place before you are allowed into programming mode. A good Alarrm will tend to run most thieves off before they can even plug in the machine.

These cars have pretty good security, as long as you prevent anyone from getting ahold of one of YOUR keys.

Jparrie

[MI2QWK4U]

Hey, Listen to Sarge. For once I couldnt agree more! Dont cover the VIN. You are likely to be put in the back seat of the scout car while they call in someone from the Auto Theft Squad. I cant emphasize enough what kind of red flag it is to an officer when its obvious that the owner/driver of a vehicle is trying to conceal the VIN plate. Some car thiefs are pulling a new scam. When they steal a car, they also steal a license plate from the same year and make of the model they just stole. So they steal the 91 honda civic 4dr sedan from a parking lot, they will steal a plate from a 91 honda civic 4dr sedan in an apartment complex nearby. The stolen car owner notices his car gone, calls the police, makes the report, and the vehicle is entered into the computer system by BOTH the assigned plate and VIN. In Michigan, only the rear plate is issued, so the chances of the guy with the stolen plate wont notice immediately, I have had people not notice their plate stolen for days. Now he puts the plate that noone knows is stolen on the stolen car. Bottom line, car thief is driving a stolen car that is in the computer as stolen by the VIN (cause the plate is removed), but have the plate from the other car that hasnt been reported stolen yet, so an officer runs the plate and it returns clear, not wanted, but if he ran the VIN, it comes back stolen and wanted. The fact that the plate returns to the same vehicle, it doesnt raise any suspicion. So officers are aware of this now, suspicious stops result in both plate and VIN checks, and everything has to match. If you have your VIN covered or taped over, he will become immediately suspicious and take steps to investigate further. Like I said, this can range from getting you out of the car, most likely put in the scout car, and looking for secondary or hidden VINs until he is satisfied that the car is legit. Or calling for an Auto Theft officer, and if one isnt on duty, they will impound your car with a hold on it till its cleared. Or like Sarge said, its an arrestable offense in some jurisdictions. Either way, none of those are pleasant for honest folks like you, its designed for bottom feeding car thiefs! I spoke with an Auto Theft guy and with the PATS system in our cars, its easier to just tow our car and steal it that way. It is far to difficult to program a key by a thief. He advised to just be carefull when valet parking, or any other time you hand someone your keys. It would be easy to clone your remote and key having yours in their hand. Then a week later, they stop by your house or business and use the key/remote they cloned when they had your key and vehicle. Just trying to share some insight and first hand experience with you all.
Dave

[screamdennis]

wow : where do you guys live ? i wouldnt cover up my vin but once in awhile i throw a letter or reciept on the dash , of couse i live in a town which is only accessible by boat or plane . cars do still get stolen here and some never found , probily deep six
we dont have road blocks for drunks , there stupid enought to get caught on there on

[miamisilvermm]

I could not believe what I was watching on Dateline. It showed one dealer service rep after another providing new programmed keys to the reporter without ID or registration. Of course the reporter was a professional looking young woman.

[MMdriver03]

I'm sure it has happend,just hope they never get mine..........

[jparrie]

Originally posted by miamisilvermm
I could not believe what I was watching on Dateline. It showed one dealer service rep after another providing new programmed keys to the reporter without ID or registration. Of course the reporter was a professional looking young woman.

It's good that you didn't believe it, because it is not true.

They may have shown them handing over supposedly "programmed" keys, but I bet they didn't show them starting the car. If they did, It was not the same key.

The vehicle needs to be programmed to accept the transponder value of the key. The only way that can be done, is to plug into the vehicle with the correct programming tool, and introduce the new key value to the module in the vehicle.

There is NO way to program a key to operate a particular vehicle.

Just another example of the media deciding what we should see. It has nothing to do with the truth.


Jparrie

[RF Overlord]

jparrie is probably closest to the truth...

But just to be safe, I NEVER let a valet park my car...

and NO, Todd, it's NOT 'cuz I'm so cheap... :D

[BillyGman]

jparrie is absolutely correct. I wasn't very sure about this until I just looked in my owners manual about how a new key is programmed, and just like he previosly stated in one of his posts in this thread, the owners manual clearly states that in order for anyone but the dealer to program the new key, TWO pre-programmed keys must be used to complete the operation. Obviously jparrie already knew this and didn't need to look in his owners' manual like I did.

[SergntMac]

Whew...I am glad we talked about this...

[BillyGman]

as a Police Officer you must have been tossing & turning in your sleep about this one:P

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by BillyGman
as a Police Officer you must have been tossing & turning in your sleep about this one?

Naw, Billy...I don't lose any sleep over any of this nonsense.

None of this is THAT important in my life, K?

But, I do get concerned for my friends too.

"Mis-information" is as dangerous and damaging as one lone opinion...Best they all hear at least one voice calling for a balance, yes?

[BillyGman]

just toyin w/ya Mac;) No disrespect intended Brutha...I for one appreciated the advice you previously gave in this thread, and I took what you said very seriously......thanks.

[SergntMac]

No problem, Billy, we're cool. I was speaking of the news media

[rumble]

Dateline? Dateline? Wasn't that the show where they set the Chevy truck on fire with road flares and then said they were unsafe. Also weren't the bosses fired for lying about it? Any more
if something is on a show like Dateline or 60 minutes it's probably
not true.