9" Rear End?

[FordNut]

I just saw that Currie now has a 9" conversion for '05+ Mustangs that retains ABS, 11" rear discs, and drum-type parking brakes. What is the difference in track width and/or overall rear end width between the MM and the 'Stang? Maybe one could get one of these rear ends without brackets, then have the brackets fabbed and welded on locally?

[ImpalaSlayer]

Brian, what is so great about the 9inch?

[Krytin]

No C - clips for one....
can handle more HP/torque for another.

[ImpalaSlayer]

how are the axles held in?

[Krytin]

4 bolt/plate retains pressed on bearing that actually has it's own hardened inner race (not the crap we have on our 8.8" units)
Virtually every prostock and higher drag car uses a ford 9" regardless of the rest of the drive train.

[O's Fan Rich]

there are a number of shops that will build a 9" to whatever specs you want.
In my area, S&W Racecars will build one.
I've spoken to them, and all I'd need to do is bring them the car, or a complete axle assembly and they'd go to it..... that and pay them....

[Krytin]

that and pay them....

That's where it always falls apart for me!

[FordNut]

there are a number of shops that will build a 9" to whatever specs you want.
In my area, S&W Racecars will build one.
I've spoken to them, and all I'd need to do is bring them the car, or a complete axle assembly and they'd go to it..... that and pay them....

Most shops I've looked at can't make them with functional ABS and parking brakes.

[O's Fan Rich]

Most shops I've looked at can't make them with functional ABS and parking brakes.

With the new Mustang axles for 9" the abs should be no problem now.
The parking brake thing could be solved with a hotrod setup using a second caliper.

[PSG]

all the stuff at the ends of the tubes are easy, its the mount for the watts links in the center thats the problem. they wind up sitting right in the center of the removable chuck and the casting isn't at the right angle.
i started making a bracket that bolted to the upper bolts on the front bearing retainer, and the upper carrier studs, but the location winds up to far forward, and the strength would be questionable.
all in all, the gains didn't seem to justify the work, because the 8.8 will take almost as much abuse .
the only big benifit is the quick change aspect of the 9

[DEFYANT]

"Quick" gear swaps are also another benefit of the 9" rear.

Cross country road trip? Put a pumkin in with 3:27s

Drag racing? Put in the pumpkin with 4:10s or whatever you need..

[SpartaPerformance]

9" take a lot more power to spin then an 8.8" I wouldn't recommend unless you're making a high amount of power

[offroadkarter]

9" take a lot more power to spin then an 8.8" I wouldn't recommend unless you're making a high amount of power


Fordnut has that covered :D

[FordNut]

So nobody knows what the difference is in track width?

[Spectragod]

Fordnut has that covered :D

Several of us do...:D

Sounds like the making of a group buy....:beer:

[FordNut]

No C - clips for one....
can handle more HP/torque for another.

NHRA legal without c-clip eliminators too.

[FordNut]

With the new Mustang axles for 9" the abs should be no problem now.

Maybe. I guess they could use the Mustang specs and go a little longer for the MM. But how much longer? i.e. how much wider is the MM rear flange-flange compared to the 'stang?


The parking brake thing could be solved with a hotrod setup using a second caliper.

But why do something custom/unique/non-standard when there is an OEM-type setup which you can get parts for forever.

[FordNut]

all the stuff at the ends of the tubes are easy, its the mount for the watts links in the center thats the problem. they wind up sitting right in the center of the removable chuck and the casting isn't at the right angle.
i started making a bracket that bolted to the upper bolts on the front bearing retainer, and the upper carrier studs, but the location winds up to far forward, and the strength would be questionable.
all in all, the gains didn't seem to justify the work, because the 8.8 will take almost as much abuse .
the only big benifit is the quick change aspect of the 9

I'd like to see pics of the bracket you were working on. I'm thinking along these lines, except only use 4 bolts for the carrier to mount the plate which holds the Watts link stud.

The 8.8 will take almost as much abuse stock-stock or even with standard upgrades. However there are many higher level upgrades available for the 9". And I don't know of any funny cars, dragsters, pro stockers, or NASCAR cars that use the 8.8". It's also surprising that so many cars pass tech with the standard 8.8 rears, they're supposed to have either c-clip eliminators or 9" axle tube ends. C-clip eliminators interfere with the ABS rings and possibly the parking brakes.

[FordNut]

Hey, how about this: somebody should have a complete MM rear end laying around somewhere. Please take a measurement, then I can check with Currie and see how their 'stang unit compares.

[4play]

screw the 9'' put a 10.25 from an f150 7700 in there, then you have some real strength

[Pops]

Brian email Paulshp.com with your questions! They went thru all this with the Stalker Marauder. They found a 9 inch for a limo that worked. They broke everything else they tried!

John

[Brian H]

keep us updated with that limo 9"

[FordNut]

screw the 9'' put a 10.25 from an f150 7700 in there, then you have some real strength

Is it the right width? Would it retain ABS and parking brake? It would probably look like crap, too after cutting the leaf spring perches off and adding brackets for our suspension.

But it is one reason you don't hear about Lightnings breaking rear ends.

[PSG]

there are several distributors that will mke the houseing and axles to any width you like, and you can have them made with the correct end to accept our stock brakes, and most will do it pretty reasonable,
i have several stock housings laying around, and we jigged one up with with a 9 inch center, but like i said the watts link attachment point is the problem, there are two ways to that i came up with to fix this, one was the bracket that mounted to the 9 inch carrier, which was proving to be somewhat problematic, the other was to eliminate the watts link and use a pan hard bar set up like the older fulll size fords did.
unfortunately i never followed through , becaause i really don't think the 8.8 is that much of a problem.this all came up one night when we were cleaning around the shop and there on the side of the shop was a rear out of a cop car, and a rear out of one of my galaxies, and we started cutting and welding.

[FordNut]

OK, since I couldn't get anybody to measure I pulled my rear wheels and measured mine. IF any of y'all with a spare rear end laying around would care to take some measurements for confirmation it would be helpful. I got 70.16" between rotor faces (wheel mounting surface) and 69.70" between axle flanges. I'll check with Currie and see how this compares with their '05-'09 Mustang rear, and also see if they would make one to this width with the same axle ends but no brackets.

Looks like necessary brackets would be control arm brackets, sway bar brackets, spring perches, and the special bracket for the watts link.

[justbob]

Brian, I'll have a measurement tonight. I've been waiting all week for my friend to come by with his 07 GT with 18" bullets and stock BFG's. I'm just gonna put a straight edge on the outside of the wheels and measure track width from that point seeing as it's cold and dark out. I will also measure the Rauder from the same point. This should be good enough to see if it's close.

[FordNut]

I believe there is a 4-6" difference. Gotta get it exact though, we know there's limited space between the shocks and tires in the inside and between the fenderwells and tires on the outside with the widened rims.

[justbob]

6' 1/4" GT
6' 4 1/4" Marauder

This is with stock wheels and tires on both.

[Joe Walsh]

Ford 9" rears are virtually bullet proof, and used in almost all high horsepower vehicles...including Chevys and other GM products.
One reason is because the pinion gear has an internal bearing in the case that supports the rear of the pinion gear.
Under severe torque loads it prevents deflection of the pinion gear.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/0304_9_inch_12_bolt_rearend_co mparison/index.html

[FordNut]

Apparently the axles are stronger too. The only time I tore up 9" 31 spline axles is in a 4x4 truck running 38x12.50 super swampers and a 460. Dropped the clutch and stripped the splines right off the axle, but didn't break it like we've been seeing with the 8.8" axles.

[ImpalaSlayer]

Apparently the axles are stronger too. The only time I tore up 9" 31 spline axles is in a 4x4 truck running 38x12.50 super swampers and a 460. Dropped the clutch and stripped the splines right off the axle, but didn't break it like we've been seeing with the 8.8" axles.

year and pics?

[FordNut]

Sorry, got rid of it last year. No pics. '79 F150 4x4, NP 435 4 speed bulldog tranny, NP 205 gear-driven transfer case, 460 conversion mounts from Advance Adapters, 12.5" clutch from Boss 429 specs, 9" Nodular case w/Detroit Locker in rear, Dana 44 w/trac lock in front, 2" suspension lift, 2" body lift. Well equipped, too, as it was originally a camper special w/dual batteries, dual tanks, quad front shocks, towing package, overload springs, ac, tilt, cruise, interval wipers, sliding rear window, under-bed tool compartment on passenger's side. Oh, yeah I had a Ramsey winch and bumper on the front too. Bunch more I can't remember right now. I loved that truck, but every time I went to the woods it cost me a few hundred more $$$ due to breakage. Too much fun!

[ImpalaSlayer]

Sorry, got rid of it last year. No pics. '79 F150 4x4, NP 435 4 speed bulldog tranny, NP 205 gear-driven transfer case, 460 conversion mounts from Advance Adapters, 12.5" clutch from Boss 429 specs, 9" Nodular case w/Detroit Locker in rear, Dana 44 w/trac lock in front, 2" suspension lift, 2" body lift. Well equipped, too, as it was originally a camper special w/dual batteries, dual tanks, quad front shocks, towing package, overload springs, ac, tilt, cruise, interval wipers, sliding rear window, under-bed tool compartment on passenger's side. Oh, yeah I had a Ramsey winch and bumper on the front too. Bunch more I can't remember right now. I loved that truck, but every time I went to the woods it cost me a few hundred more $$$ due to breakage. Too much fun!


damn, sounds like a well optioned truck when it was new. my 76 is bare bones. it is tough as **** though, i cant break that thing.

[FordNut]

Anybody know if the Mustang and Marauder ABS rings have the same number of teeth? Probably need to know before talking to Currie.

[guspech750]

pay them


Thats always the deal breaker for me. I :dunno: why!

[FordNut]

One step forward, two steps back...

Contacted Currie, they can make it any width you want. Without attaching brackets for control arms, shocks & springs or even include unattached brackets as desired.

The problem is brakes & ABS. They can put ABS rings on the axles (they asked and I still don't know if the 'stang ABS rings are the same diameter and tooth count as the Marauder) but the only brackets they have that can make them work is the brackets for '05-'09 Mustang brakes. The 'stang brakes are different, they are the type with the parking brake built into the caliper. They can also make it for Explorer rear disc brakes, which have the drum type parking brake. But then there is no place for the ABS sensors to mount and the rotors are very close to the ABS tone rings.

Choices seem to be eliminate ABS, eliminate parking brake, convert parking brake, or figure out a way to setup the ABS sensor w/the Exploder brakes. I'm not 100% sure the Exploder brakes are the same as our Marauders, I looked at mine and the caliper is behind the axle instead of in front and the parking brake mechanism is different. But mine is an '05 and has IRS, I'm not sure what model the Currie Exploder brake design is based on.

Anyway, it was priced at around $1100 with brakes, axles w/ABS rings, spring perches included but not attached, no other brackets, no center section.

[ImpalaSlayer]

One step forward, two steps back...

Contacted Currie, they can make it any width you want. Without attaching brackets for control arms, shocks & springs or even include unattached brackets as desired.

The problem is brakes & ABS. They can put ABS rings on the axles (they asked and I still don't know if the 'stang ABS rings are the same diameter and tooth count as the Marauder) but the only brackets they have that can make them work is the brackets for '05-'09 Mustang brakes. The 'stang brakes are different, they are the type with the parking brake built into the caliper. They can also make it for Explorer rear disc brakes, which have the drum type parking brake. But then there is no place for the ABS sensors to mount and the rotors are very close to the ABS tone rings.

Choices seem to be eliminate ABS, eliminate parking brake, convert parking brake, or figure out a way to setup the ABS sensor w/the Exploder brakes. I'm not 100% sure the Exploder brakes are the same as our Marauders, I looked at mine and the caliper is behind the axle instead of in front and the parking brake mechanism is different. But mine is an '05 and has IRS, I'm not sure what model the Currie Exploder brake design is based on.

Anyway, it was priced at around $1100 with brakes, axles w/ABS rings, spring perches included but not attached, no other brackets, no center section.

damn thats a mouth full

[justbob]

Can't we just use mustang calipers? They are designed to clear a wheel simular to ours. That way IF the abs rings are the same and won't send bad data back it sounds like a win - win. The other problem I see is getting the parking brake cable to work with the Mustang calipers. I haven't had a chance to see how they are hooked up. What else am I missing besides clearance of the watts link? Perhaps just go coilover / panhard bar. If I were to do this any way, I would want to go with my own four link and just scrap the air susp. But thats just me.

[FordNut]

I know the Mustang calipers would physically fit, but they may require some different hoses. There would certainly be some fab work to get the cables to fit and function. Also the 'stang uses a hand brake instead of our foot pedal. I don't know if there would be any major differences in travel and/or force applied.

[justbob]

I have a GT at my disposal just about any time. It is getting to be that time of the year however when I hate being cold LOL. Let me check a few things sometime thurs/fri and atleast check cable mounting / hoses etc. I'm thinking right where the parking brake splits in two would be a good place to switch over to the rear cabling of the GT.

[GreekGod]

One step forward, two steps back...

Contacted Currie, they can make it any width you want. Without attaching brackets for control arms, shocks & springs or even include unattached brackets as desired.

The problem is brakes & ABS. They can put ABS rings on the axles (they asked and I still don't know if the 'stang ABS rings are the same diameter and tooth count as the Marauder) but the only brackets they have that can make them work is the brackets for '05-'09 Mustang brakes. The 'stang brakes are different, they are the type with the parking brake built into the caliper. They can also make it for Explorer rear disc brakes, which have the drum type parking brake. But then there is no place for the ABS sensors to mount and the rotors are very close to the ABS tone rings.

Choices seem to be eliminate ABS, eliminate parking brake, convert parking brake, or figure out a way to setup the ABS sensor w/the Exploder brakes. I'm not 100% sure the Exploder brakes are the same as our Marauders, I looked at mine and the caliper is behind the axle instead of in front and the parking brake mechanism is different. But mine is an '05 and has IRS, I'm not sure what model the Currie Exploder brake design is based on.

Anyway, it was priced at around $1100 with brakes, axles w/ABS rings, spring perches included but not attached, no other brackets, no center section.

You need a fixture to properly weld brackets to the housing and/or the axle tubes. It is a thick bar that keeps the tubes from warping when welded. The bar has ends that fit in the end/axle shaft bearing housings, which MUST be kept perfectly aligned.

I would certainly like to install a 9" in my MM Panther chassis. I'm told Paul's High Performance recommends using the (adapted) 10.5" (?) F250/Expedition axle housing, to retain the ABS feature.