major trans problem

[james1986fox]

Tonight out of know where my trans started slipping. I have to rev it to about 4500-5000 rpms just to get it to start moving. I recently added a 3100 stall PI tc about 3 months ago and their haven't been any prblems until now, I'm clueless any help would be awsome.

[sd8683]

Have you checked your fluid level yet?

[james1986fox]

I recently got a trans flush and new filter about 3 weeks ago and the fluid was fine when I checked it 3 days after.

[ntd]

You need to check your trans fluid level and condition. What color is it does it smell burnt(most likely a damaged forward clutch). If it's burnt and or black I see a rebuild in your future. Did you install a trans cooler when you had the converter installed? If not that may be the root cause of your problem to much heat.

[RR|Suki]

You need to check your trans fluid level and condition. What color is it does it smell burnt(most likely a damaged forward clutch). If it's burnt and or black I see a rebuild in your future. Did you install a trans cooler when you had the converter installed? If not that may be the root cause of your problem to much heat.

I think the cooler thing might be a little over diagnosed, my car has had a high stall converter in it since 03, I have no aux. cooler, and seeing temps over 180 is pretty rare for me. My 2cents on that whole thing.

To the OP good luck man, nothing about that sounds good

[ntd]

I think the cooler thing might be a little over diagnosed, my car has had a high stall converter in it since 03, I have no aux. cooler, and seeing temps over 180 is pretty rare for me. My 2cents on that whole thing.

To the OP good luck man, nothing about that sounds good




heat is the #1 cause of trans failures take a higher mileage trans with normal wear and tear add alot more heat and drive it harder making it do things its never had to do before and presto rebuild time. If he's losing first the forward clutch is probable slipping due being overheated or a slipping due to a damaged forward piston seal. You can tempt fate if you want but if your willing to spend money to make improvement should you also be willing to spend money to prevent damage. All things being equal a cooler operating trans will out last a hotter running trans hands down. RR|Suki do yourself a favor and get a trans cooler, just my 2cents on that whole thing.

[RR|Suki]

Certainly heat kills transmissions, just like it kills motors. At the same time I wouldn't put in a bigger radiator, or change fans if my engine temps are normal. I have a temp gauge for the trans and it just doesn't get over 180, seems prudent to at least know info like trans temp before going right to a cooler and still smoking your tans anyway.

[ntd]

I'm not trying to argue with you, You first said,"seeing temps over 180 is pretty rare for me" now you say,"it just doesn't get over 180" which is it. The ideal operating temp for the 4r family of trans is 160-180 if your at or over 180 it seems prudent to install a trans cooler but by all means don't. I was only trying to give friendly advise sorry won't let it happen again

[james1986fox]

So is it likely that my tc is damaged also

[ntd]

before you get into that hows the fluid level and condition if it's burnt drop the pan and check the magnet if there is alot of metal present what can happen is that metal can be sent throwout the trans and impregnate itself in the friction material. In that case you'll probably have to send the tq out to be repaired and the trans will need to be rebuilt. Maybe you'll be lucky and it's just a forward piston seal and no major damage has been done to the steels and friction. Check the pan first let me know how it looks take a pic if you can.

[johnjamis]

Check your fluid level. A very slight underfill will give these symptoms. If it is close; add some fluid.

[kariamack]

This has happen to my friends marauder twice ...you need a rebuild or a new trans ..its toast ...

[FordNut]

One possibility to look at, pull the pan and see if the filter may have come loose. O-rings hold it in place and if it wasn't securely installed it may have come loose and the fluid pickup could be above the level of the fluid. Don't drive it like it is or it will for sure destroy the tranny.

[babbage]

I think the cooler thing might be a little over diagnosed, my car has had a high stall converter in it since 03, I have no aux. cooler, and seeing temps over 180 is pretty rare for me. My 2cents on that whole thing.

To the OP good luck man, nothing about that sounds good

Don't you have a deep trans pan?? I don't have an aux cooler either (yet) I do have a nice +2 quart aluminum finned cast pan.

[Blackened300a]

One possibility to look at, pull the pan and see if the filter may have come loose. O-rings hold it in place and if it wasn't securely installed it may have come loose and the fluid pickup could be above the level of the fluid. Don't drive it like it is or it will for sure destroy the tranny.

+1, Had the same symptoms in a old truck of mine when the filter fell into the pan.

I also have gone 3 years with a 3K stall convertor in my car without a cooler and haven't had a single issue.

[ImpalaSlayer]

+1, Had the same symptoms in a old truck of mine when the filter fell into the pan.

I also have gone 3 years with a 3K stall convertor in my car without a cooler and haven't had a single issue.

i think ive gone about a year with my 3500 on the factory cooler as well.

[ntd]

james1986fox -did you check your fluid level yet how does it look and smell. I was reading this all late at night after the UFC fight (Shogen that fight was yours:bs:) and I swore you said it lost forward gears. How's reverse?

[james1986fox]

james1986fox -did you check your fluid level yet how does it look and smell. I was reading this all late at night after the UFC fight (Shogen that fight was yours:bs:) and I swore you said it lost forward gears. How's reverse?

Yea the level looks fine in between the first two dots doesn't look burn just kinda red, and reverse is the only thing that works properly. Would you suggest that I get it towed to ford I can have it towed to your dealership tomorrow morning.

[merc]

How many miles are on the transmission and are you the original owner? It sounds like your forward clutches are gone.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/836096-4r70w-no-forward-gears-only-reverse-help-needed.html

[james1986fox]

I'm not the original owner and theirs around 90,000 miles on the trans. I jus had the pan dropped and new filter and fuel put in recently.

[merc]

I'm not the original owner and theirs around 90,000 miles on the trans. I jus had the pan dropped and new filter and fuel put in recently.

dirtyd0g
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: cincinnati
Vehicle: 1995 ford tbird
Posts: 1,380

Strippage of the forward drum is not a result of weight. The general cause for the forward drum to strip out is when these transmission goes into overdrive they must release the forward clutch and instantly the reverse drum (which houses the overdrive band) must apply causing the mass of the transmission to whip around and start spinning the opposite direction. This load is placed on the direct stub shaft and the forward hub. Whichever one gives up first. That is why it is such a bad idea to allow these transmissions to go into od at wide open or even heavy throttle and suggested not to tow in overdrive.
Alan

[ntd]

well if reverse works fine that rules out the filter being loose and the pumps making pressure so your left with main control or internal damage. The common problem is going to forward piston and seal and the stater. Was that you that called me, I was outside walking the dog if so I'll call you later if not pm me your number and I'll call you later so we can talk.

[RR|Suki]

I'm not trying to argue with you, You first said,"seeing temps over 180 is pretty rare for me" now you say,"it just doesn't get over 180" which is it. The ideal operating temp for the 4r family of trans is 160-180 if your at or over 180 it seems prudent to install a trans cooler but by all means don't. I was only trying to give friendly advise sorry won't let it happen again

Only time it's ever gone over 180 was sitting at the bridge to go from NY to Canada for 3 hours on a hot day. Even at the end of a 1/4 mile run it won't be over 180. So yes it's rare for it to go over 180, so rare that I've seen it once, ala it just doesn't get over 180. Part and parcel of the same thing.

[LeoVampire]

I'm not the original owner and theirs around 90,000 miles on the trans. I jus had the pan dropped and new filter and fuel put in recently.

I have come accross torque converters that had fin's break off and or bend internaly and cause the same symptoms as well. Seeing reverse is working well it stands to reason the front pump is in good shape.

Seeing you changed the converter it is a possability it is defective and just showing signs of the problem.

When the pan was droped what did it look like inside? Lot's of build up of clutch material or no? If there is no build up I might look at the torque converter.

[ImpalaSlayer]

I have come accross torque converters that had fin's break off and or bend internaly and cause the same symptoms as well. Seeing reverse is working well it stands to reason the front pump is in good shape.

Seeing you changed the converter it is a possability it is defective and just showing signs of the problem.

When the pan was droped what did it look like inside? Lot's of build up of clutch material or no? If there is no build up I might look at the torque converter.

but if the converter was the problem wouldnt it not move in reverse either?

[LANDY]

i thought that when the converter goes out you also need a rebuild

[james1986fox]

I have come accross torque converters that had fin's break off and or bend internaly and cause the same symptoms as well. Seeing reverse is working well it stands to reason the front pump is in good shape.

Seeing you changed the converter it is a possability it is defective and just showing signs of the problem.

When the pan was droped what did it look like inside? Lot's of build up of clutch material or no? If there is no build up I might look at the torque converter.

I had a local shop do it but they did say their was LOTS of metal shavings and sludge in their.

[LeoVampire]

but if the converter was the problem wouldnt it not move in reverse either?


It take's a lot less fluid pressure to move the car in reverse because there is only one set of bands and gears involved with the operation so a bad converter can still move the car in reverse.

[LeoVampire]

I had a local shop do it but they did say their was LOTS of metal shavings and sludge in their.

That is a clear indication of an over-haul being needed I am sorry to say. It might also be a good idea and highly sugested to change the converter because some of that will be pumped into it unfortunatly.

If you can get a new one or rebuilt one from a shop that has a dyno for Trannys. That way there it is pre tested and usualy well set up already when it is put in the car.

[james1986fox]

That is a clear indication of an over-haul being needed I am sorry to say. It might also be a good idea and highly sugested to change the converter because some of that will be pumped into it unfortunatly.

If you can get a new one or rebuilt one from a shop that has a dyno for Trannys. That way there it is pre tested and usualy well set up already when it is put in the car.

Shouldn't I just send my tc to pi and have them take a look at it and fix it up if needed

[Darrin]

Shouldn't I just send my tc to pi and have them take a look at it and fix it up if needed

Definitely, period and without a doubt. LOL

Darrin

[LeoVampire]

Shouldn't I just send my tc to pi and have them take a look at it and fix it up if needed

Replace it with one already done and set or rebuild the one you have either way it needs to be done now after your saying what was found inside of the pan when it was droped.