STS Turbo systems

[VinnyP]

hey guys just wondering if anyone has any experience with this company and their product. Im planning on boosting my car over winter and am currently debating the twin turbo universal kit from sts which was highly recomended by my local tuner. just looking for some insight from anyone who has some experience with this kit on a marauder or any car.

thanks in advance

Vinny

[SpartaPerformance]

Stay away!! I used to be a dealer and the product is a nightmare customer support is even worse. If you like blowing oil all over the ground, burning turbo's etc.... be my guest.

[ImpalaSlayer]

just some things i see wrong, UNIVERSAL. it will more then likely require MUCH work to make it work on a mm.

BUT if you do it make sure to post pics! also your stock motor prolly wont last long with twins unless you really dial it back.

just my 2 cents

[MrBluGruv]

Some will say the STS turbos aren't that great, as they are remote mount in the rear of the car so maybe a little laggy and also comparatively inefficient. Others may say that for the cost isn't worth it for all the fab work that'll be necessary.

Personally I'm a fan of turbo setups, but good luck getting this to be affordable and practical. I'd say keep the boards posted if you go this route, pretty sure no one has gone STS for their turbo setups here yet.

[VinnyP]

well the thing with this kit is its rear mount so there is very little work under the hood its pretty much like fabing up a custom exhaust. i got a quote from one of the best shops in my area for 7 hour install which isnt that bad. also ive read on here that the stock internals are good for 8 pounds of boost with a blower just wondering how that translates to turbo boost? is it the same?

[ImpalaSlayer]

well the thing with this kit is its rear mount so there is very little work under the hood its pretty much like fabing up a custom exhaust. i got a quote from one of the best shops in my area for 7 hour install which isnt that bad. also ive read on here that the stock internals are good for 8 pounds of boost with a blower just wondering how that translates to turbo boost? is it the same?


there good for more then that im at 14 right now but im only at 12* of timing and only making 432hp. i didnt know id make this much boost lol.

good luck getting the air charge back to the intake, theres virtually no room to do such.

[VinnyP]

this set up was just an idea recomended to me looking for opinions if anyone has any other turbo set ups they can recommened im open to suggestions. i wanna get it right the first time!

[SpartaPerformance]

I've warned you about oil lines, bad feed to the turbos. Look elsewhere for a turbo kit.

[ImpalaSlayer]

this set up was just an idea recomended to me looking for opinions if anyone has any other turbo set ups they can recommened im open to suggestions. i wanna get it right the first time!

you could do what my self and a few other for pretty cheap...

[VinnyP]

you could do what my self and a few other for pretty cheap...

Which is a blower im assuming?

[ImpalaSlayer]

Which is a blower im assuming?

yeah basically a cobra swap.

[MrBluGruv]

Go with ImpalaSlayer on this one, I plan on doing the Cobra swap myself at some point when funds permit. You could do the entire swap for the cost of the parts in that STS twin turbo univeral kit.

[RR|Suki]

you can't really measure how much the motor can take on "psi" alone. different blowers/turbos etc. have different CFM ratings and will make different amounts of power at different psi.
Either way, turbos mounted at the back of the car... under the car... seems like a good way to have a lot of broken parts unless it's a race car that never gets driven much.

[ctrlraven]

As Vista said Stay Away! If you really want to go the turbo route talk to Reinhart he might be able to do something and it would be better than whatever STS would have to offer.

[ImpalaSlayer]

As Vista said Stay Away! If you really want to go the turbo route talk to Reinhart he might be able to do something and it would be better than whatever STS would have to offer.

oh god :rofl:

[offroadkarter]

oh god :rofl:


+1 i just hardcore facepalmed...



STS "style" kits HAVE been done on panthers before, one shop posted up a video on CVN of a remote mount turbo setup, custom made, on an 03 cvpi...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA1ZC5E6bRM
zA1ZC5E6bRM


But yet again, if any of you are familiar with quickcrownvic and his lightning motor 5spd 2000 P73, he tried a twin turbo remote mount and kept blowing the pipes off, and eventually blew both turbos...



one thing about remote mount turbos, they have an AWESOME sound! :D

[juno]

Yeah, you can't go by boost pressure. Turbo's are inherently more efficient then the other blowers.
I do not know much about set-ups on panthers, but it seems other cars have had success.
I think the issue I would have is how reliably it returns the oil to the pan.
Most turbo's burn up from over-oiling (coking) from the supply, not under-oiling. But a simple orifice can cure that.
A twin set-up with a couple of 57's would be pretty cool. I bet it would be responsive as hell!!!!

[justbob]

Here you go.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn19/marauding4life/twinturboMM.jpg
Or even better.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn19/marauding4life/twintubosetup.jpg

[MrBluGruv]

Now that's just absurd...



... I like it. ;)

[Joe Walsh]

I know that the remote turbo systems work, but here's my post from the last time this was discussed:

Marauders are long wheelbase cars...SO...you are going to run 4 pipes front to back to make the system work.

2 Exhaust Pipes
2 Turbo to intercooler pipes

Plus the following:

1: Lonnnnnnng Turbo Oil feed lines
2: Lonnnnnnng Turbo Oil return lines (probably need an auxillary oil scavenge pump for the oil return.)
3: Lonnnnnnng Turbo water coolant lines (for water jacketed Turbo bearings, which is what you want.)
4: Unlike the late model Mustangs which have room for Turbos out back because that is where Ford mounted the OEM mufflers, our Marauders DO NOT have a lot of space.
5: Air filters/turbo intakes are hanging down by the rear wheels...LOTS of dirt, road debris and water down there!
6: A few cold beers to drink while you wait for boost to build in 15 feet of piping.

For the life of me I cannot figure out how those STS systems work.
When the turbo(s) are close to the exhaust ports they get hit with the HOT, HIGH VELOCITY exhaust gas pulses.....That's what spools the turbos!
To me, the remote turbo system is like blowing through a garden hose to clear out the water before a cold freeze....ever do that?

[fastblackmerc]

Just pony up the bucks and go with a Trilogy. Custom made for the MM and you can do it in a weekend.

[Blackened300a]

Here you go.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn19/marauding4life/twinturboMM.jpg


Twin turbos in a filthy engine bay. :nono:

[Joe Walsh]

To me, the best twin turbo system for our Marauders would be mounted like this Shelby GT500 twin turbo system:

http://www.hellionpowersystems.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=140

Close to the exhaust headers and tucked up nice and neat, but out of the engine compartment.
Now I'm sure that having all those pipes in close proximity to the transmission can make things a bit toasty...
but that can be cured by some well placed heat sheilding and heat blankets.

[Spectragod]

Just pony up the bucks and go with a Trilogy. Custom made for the MM and you can do it in a weekend.


I'll second that, makes life much easier.

[justbob]

To me, the best twin turbo system for our Marauders would be mounted like this Shelby GT500 twin turbo system:

http://www.hellionpowersystems.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=140

Close to the exhaust headers and tucked up nice and neat, but out of the engine compartment.
Now I'm sure that having all those pipes in close proximity to the transmission can make things a bit toasty...
but that can be cured by some well placed heat sheilding and heat blankets.
Thats sexy! True bolt on too!!

[juno]

Too funny!
The helion kit is nice, but it is also remote!
It requires oil scavenging pumps also and the only difference is the distance from the turbo, which is not as big a deal as most people think.

Using a similar set-up one may be able to do that on the MM just behind the cross member. I would have to look at it closer.
This is what my piping currently looks like. (not my car, but off the old PTK site)

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/mercuryptk.jpg (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/17115)

[Brandon]

stock internals are good for 8 pounds of boost with a blower just wondering how that translates to turbo boost? is it the same?
there good for more then that im at 14 right now but im only at 12*
:stupid:


you can't really measure how much the motor can take on "psi" alone. different blowers/turbos etc. have different CFM ratings and will make different amounts of power at different psi.
.

Yeah, you can't go by boost pressure. Turbo's are inherently more efficient then the other blowers.

:beer: I'm glad to see this, It's very rare to come by.

You CAN NOT estimate how much "psi, lbs, .bar" an engine will take before it blows cause it's not about psi etc. Like stated it is about CFM's
(cubic feet per minute) A rating that expresses the amount of air a blower or turbo can move. The volume of air (measured in cubic feet) that can pass through an opening in one minute.

Different size turbo's or different sized supercharger moved are at a different rate even if they are at the same PSI.

Even though I don't know MM as well as the rest of you this is an area of topic I strive at.


I've warned you about oil lines, bad feed to the turbos. Look elsewhere for a turbo kit.

The feed lines aren't the concern here, From what I have read it seems MM have a strong oil pressure system. Far stronger then most cars that utilize turbo systems.

The concern here would be the oil return, If your oil return can't flow as well as the feed line your going to run into allot of problems.

Smoking,
Oil burning,
blown seals
blown turbo's

Rule of thumb is -8 or bigger (usually -10) return line with a straight downward route back into the oil pan. With running a rear mount turbo system a high flowing scavenger pump is going to be a must have or your only going damage your turbo system if not the engine.






2: Lonnnnnnng Turbo Oil return lines (probably need an auxillary oil scavenge pump for the oil return.)
3: Lonnnnnnng Turbo water coolant lines (for water jacketed Turbo bearings, which is what you want.)
6: A few cold beers to drink while you wait for boost to build in 15 feet of piping.

For the life of me I cannot figure out how those STS systems work.
When the turbo(s) are close to the exhaust ports they get hit with the HOT, HIGH VELOCITY exhaust gas pulses.....That's what spools the turbos!


#2 is a MUST HAVE
#3 like you said would base off what turbo you have.
#6 would also base of which turbo you would use.

Have you ever reached under your car and touched the exhaust after taking the family to the store and back? It's going to be Hot!

Yes turbochargers use exhaust gases to spin the turbine how ever that is not was creates "boost". "Boost" is created by heat, Now the distance from the Header(s) to the rear is allot but not enough to cool all the air coming through. Now these cars being V8 their is even more air and heat traveling through the pipes then cars that have turbo systems OE (4cyl) so the distance of travel might be greater then most but the extra 4 cyl make of for it.


Too funny!
The helion kit is nice, but it is also remote!
It requires oil scavenging pumps also and the only difference is the distance from the turbo, which is not as big a deal as most people think.

Using a similar set-up one may be able to do that on the MM just behind the cross member. I would have to look at it closer.
This is what my piping currently looks like. (not my car, but off the old PTK site)

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/mercuryptk.jpg (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/17115)


Doesn't matter the distance that the oil needs to travel, If it is not straight down into the oil pan it is going to be a concern Hens why all these remote kits either give you or advise you to run the scavenger pumps.


Me personally I would go with a SC setup as this would be the most efficient and reliable for this type of car UNLESS you were to go with an engine bay setup which then it would be users choice.

Good luck and please keep everyone posted. I myself love when ingenuity And turbo systems collide, Plus I would like to see the out come of your choice.

[Vortech347]

STS has a rep around here. Their home town...

The Rep is... THEY LOSE Every damn race. If they can't even get the cars to run properly, they are a nightmare to tune.

I wouldn't put an STS on my car if it was free, honestly.

[FordNut]

Here you go.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn19/marauding4life/twinturboMM.jpg
Or even better.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn19/marauding4life/twintubosetup.jpg

The first pic is the only really nice turbo system I've seen on a Marauder. I think it's a one-off custom setup.

There is probably enough room in the fenderwells behind the fog lights to do a custom setup similar to the second system, piping would be a PITA though. Mustangs are unibody so they can make holes in the sheetmetal and route piping easier than us with the full frame and beefy aluminum crossmember.

[cruzer]

I had the opportunity to sit in on the factory rep briefing of service managers--sounded like a tremendous improvement ----no warm up time--cool-down is automatic--AFTER you shut down the engine--oiling problems seem to be solved--Very compact--about the csize of a small grapefruit--very light weight--held one in my hands--Maury

[DOOM]

Just pony up the bucks and go with a Trilogy. Custom made for the MM and you can do it in a weekend.

:agree:

What he said!

[Brandon]

If your going to spend the money to turbo a car why not spend your money correctly and do it right the first time.

STS kits are just plain garbage IMO

[VinnyP]

Thanks alot guys for the feedback. guess this type of set up is unique for a reason lol
with what ive gathered ill most likely be going trilogy when my bank account allows me to do so. might just have to get on the bottle to give myself that lil something extra till then:)

[juno]

Me personally I would go with a SC setup as this would be the most efficient and reliable for this type of car UNLESS you were to go with an engine bay setup which then it would be users choice.

A S/C is definitely not more efficient. I have the stock PTK kit and it will make way too much power for the stock block. I hit the stock block limits at about 8 psi. I am able to go higher safely because I am not using HP to turn a belt, less stress on the rods.
As far as reliability I have had no issues with my turbo set-up in three years of daily driving/racing.
Remember, no belts. A lot of SC users have belt issues at one time or another.





Good luck and please keep everyone posted. I myself love when ingenuity And turbo systems collide, Plus I would like to see the out come of your choice.

A problem with the remote kit on the panthers is that it would be one off. I would not recommend it to anyone without turbo system experience or a very good turbo experienced shop. Everyone who has gone off the beaten path with any type of PA knows how expensive and frustrating it could be.
Any turbo is more difficult to tune on our cars because of the weight and the auto. You can only do so much on a dyno and then you have to street tune it. Depending on the situation you can really load it up in a hurry, like a 200 shot of nitrous.
You have to be careful at low rpms in 3rd also. You are better off making it down shift then letting it hit in 3rd as the torque developed and the stress on the rods is too great.
I would recommend anyone putting the PTK kit on a stock motor to use a smaller turbo that would be efficient up to about 600 chp tops.
The STS system is a little different, but that may be the way to go with it also. There are just not enough experienced tuners for our cars.

[Brandon]

A S/C is definitely not more efficient. I have the stock PTK kit and it will make way too much power for the stock block. I hit the stock block limits at about 8 psi. I am able to go higher safely because I am not using HP to turn a belt, less stress on the rods.
As far as reliability I have had no issues with my turbo set-up in three years of daily driving/racing.
Remember, no belts. A lot of SC users have belt issues at one time or another.


Did you really just say that? I thought we went over this.

1.PSI holds no relevance with out including the size of the turbo
2. Both systems utilize engine power to create power. SC uses a belt and Turbo uses exhaust gases, Both create stress on an engine.
3. Both create about the same amount of stress on the rods as both shove air in the cylinders.
4. If turbos were so much more efficient for V8's Top fuel cars would have been doing it years ago.
5. "SC have problems with belts", Yea your right.. now lets think of us turbo guys.. We have oil pressure, Oil, Coolant, Couplers, BOV, Waste-gates, heat, Boost spike....... I could go on for days.


I have been into FI for the last 4years.. I have seen it all.

[FordNut]

Did you really just say that? I thought we went over this.

1.PSI holds no relevance with out including the size of the turbo
2. Both systems utilize engine power to create power. SC uses a belt and Turbo uses exhaust gases, Both create stress on an engine.
3. Both create about the same amount of stress on the rods as both shove air in the cylinders.
4. If turbos were so much more efficient for V8's Top fuel cars would have been doing it years ago.
5. "SC have problems with belts", Yea your right.. now lets think of us turbo guys.. We have oil pressure, Oil, Coolant, Couplers, BOV, Waste-gates, heat, Boost spike....... I could go on for days.


I have been into FI for the last 4years.. I have seen it all.

Actually you're incorrect on some counts here.

It takes hundreds of horsepower from the crank just to turn the rotors on a supercharger. Free that horsepower up by using a turbo instead. That's why a turbo car running the exact same boost as a supercharged car makes more horsepower.

Turbos aren't used on top fuel cars because of rules, not because they wouldn't make more power. In outlaw drag racing and other series that do allow turbos, they usually limit turbo cars to smaller displacement or more weight than supercharged cars to try to equalize them because the turbo cars make so much more power.

Some of us guys have been into racing and high performance for longer than you've been born, so your 4 years ain't saying much.

[LANDY]

Actually you're incorrect on some counts here.

It takes hundreds of horsepower from the crank just to turn the rotors on a supercharger. Free that horsepower up by using a turbo instead. That's why a turbo car running the exact same boost as a supercharged car makes more horsepower.

Turbos aren't used on top fuel cars because of rules, not because they wouldn't make more power. In outlaw drag racing and other series that do allow turbos, they usually limit turbo cars to smaller displacement or more weight than supercharged cars to try to equalize them because the turbo cars make so much more power.

Some of us guys have been into racing and high performance for longer than you've been born, so your 4 years ain't saying much.
totaly agree.
i have ridden a supercharged monte carlo, and owned a 86 GN.
totally differnt rush, more power on the v6 turbo at the same psi than the v8 supercharged. 355 cid chevy 4 bolt main with a carburated centrifugal vortech

[Brandon]

Actually you're incorrect on some counts here.

It takes hundreds of horsepower from the crank just to turn the rotors on a supercharger. Free that horsepower up by using a turbo instead. That's why a turbo car running the exact same boost as a supercharged car makes more horsepower.
.

Some of us guys have been into racing and high performance for longer than you've been born, so your 4 years ain't saying much.

If you've been into racing, turbos, superchargers so long then why do you keep comparing boost/psi between SC and turbos as if they're the same.

CAUSE THEIR NOT.

different size turbo/sc push different amounts of air, So by you saying a turbo as the same psi as a supercharger would make more power is talking out your :censored:

If I am running a DSM T25 at 6psi on my MM and your running a Kenbell SC at 6psi on your MM I can guarantee you that your SC MM is going to make more power than my T25 MM at 6psi. Even if I was were to run a dual T25 setups (Twin turbo) I wouldn't make the same HP as you, Well maybe just about but the same... But that would be cutting it close.

It's all about CFM's and turbo/SC diameter..

lets run this one more time just in case.

If I had a Turbonetics T3/T4 AR.63 at 6psi and a Turbonetics T3/T4 AR.48 at 6psi the out come would be the AR.63 would push more CFM's at 6psi then the AR.48.


So before you come out here shaking your head and trying to prove me wrong you should consider the facts not your logic.

[Brandon]

totaly agree.
i have ridden a supercharged monte carlo, and owned a 86 GN.
totally differnt rush, more power on the v6 turbo at the same psi than the v8 supercharged. 355 cid chevy 4 bolt main with a carburated centrifugal vortech


That is because your feeling the power band at different time. Supercharger start from almost 0 to mid rpm range.

Where as most turbo setups start making power in the mid range till red line.


These are two totally different power bands your talking about here so of course your "butt dyno" is going to tell you the turbo one was better.

[Brandon]

Turbo chargers and super charger both have there +/- in the end it all has to do with what your application requires and what your plans call for.

OP just take your time and read, Google is a nice feature to use for situations like this. Just simply type in Key words and read.. read.. read.

[DOOM]

Get yourself a TRILOGY and call it a day. :up:

[FordNut]

If you've been into racing, turbos, superchargers so long then why do you keep comparing boost/psi between SC and turbos as if they're the same.

CAUSE THEIR NOT.

different size turbo/sc push different amounts of air, So by you saying a turbo as the same psi as a supercharger would make more power is talking out your :censored:

If I am running a DSM T25 at 6psi on my MM and your running a Kenbell SC at 6psi on your MM I can guarantee you that your SC MM is going to make more power than my T25 MM at 6psi. Even if I was were to run a dual T25 setups (Twin turbo) I wouldn't make the same HP as you, Well maybe just about but the same... But that would be cutting it close.

It's all about CFM's and turbo/SC diameter..

lets run this one more time just in case.

If I had a Turbonetics T3/T4 AR.63 at 6psi and a Turbonetics T3/T4 AR.48 at 6psi the out come would be the AR.63 would push more CFM's at 6psi then the AR.48.


So before you come out here shaking your head and trying to prove me wrong you should consider the facts not your logic.

Nonsense...

[FordNut]

Did you really just say that?

I have been into FI for the last 4years.. I have seen it all.

Did you really say that?

[juno]

Brandon,
We are talking marauders here. Why would anyone put a small tc on a v-8 that pushes so much air with these heads? Or anything that KB makes twin screw for? The T25 is barely efficient up to the stock chp on a marauder. It might be fine on my svt focus, though I would not use one with an internal waste gate.
It would be like putting a tiny sc on a MM. Very inefficient.
About the smallest tc you would want is around a 57mm. Something with at least 600 chp efficiency.
Why would someone compare a tc and a sc that are not rated for about the same hp/cfm?
A tc is a centrifugal air pump. Working in a similar loop, (same sized piping on air and exhaust, same heads, same compression ratio, etc) the boost/power ratio will be about the same for different size turbo's with similar A/R's. Yes, the smaller one will spin up faster, but on the other end you will see similar boost/power ratio's until you hit the inefficiencies of the smaller turbo. It will then die off, slower then an eaton or any pd blower, but die off nonetheless. The larger tc will spin up slower but be able to develop more boost and remain efficient longer. Of course they won't be exact, but they will be similar if the sizes are such they are both in an efficient range at the same time.
So a 57 mm on an MM may only be able to reach 12-13 psi or so efficiently while my 66 mm may reach 15 or 16 and Todd's 76 mm may get into the mid 20's efficiently. But he does not have a stock motor/heads so the power/boost ratios would look quite different. His higher flowing heads would require less boost to make the same hp. But the 57 and 66 mm will at some point in their ranges have similar boost/power ratios when the 66 is spun up and before the 57 dies off.

Some belt driven blowers use 70-100 (or more) chp to make 450 to the wheels. You have to take that into account when looking at the limits of the rotating assembly, fuel etc.
If you were to compare an eaton and a tc with similar max air flow rates on stock mm's the eaton would need a higher boost level to achieve the same rwhp at the top of their efficient range.

[Todd]

If you've been into racing, turbos, superchargers so long then why do you keep comparing boost/psi between SC and turbos as if they're the same.

CAUSE THEIR NOT.

different size turbo/sc push different amounts of air, So by you saying a turbo as the same psi as a supercharger would make more power is talking out your :censored:

If I am running a DSM T25 at 6psi on my MM and your running a Kenbell SC at 6psi on your MM I can guarantee you that your SC MM is going to make more power than my T25 MM at 6psi. Even if I was were to run a dual T25 setups (Twin turbo) I wouldn't make the same HP as you, Well maybe just about but the same... But that would be cutting it close.

It's all about CFM's and turbo/SC diameter..

lets run this one more time just in case.

If I had a Turbonetics T3/T4 AR.63 at 6psi and a Turbonetics T3/T4 AR.48 at 6psi the out come would be the AR.63 would push more CFM's at 6psi then the AR.48.


So before you come out here shaking your head and trying to prove me wrong you should consider the facts not your logic.


Boost and CFM are two totally different things. CFM is flow, pure and simple. Boost is the inability of your engine combo to process the cfm it has incoming. Big heads, valves, exhaust, displacement, cam profile will affect how much your engine can process.

I think the biggest thing to consider is efficiency which means heat generation. 6psi on one poweradder and 6psi on another poweradder are not exactly created equal IF, and ONLY IF the IAT is high on one because the unit is inefficient and causing more heat than the other to make that 6psi.

In your example, without looking at the compressor map of the turbo and the efficiency of the Kenne Bell, I would guess the Kenne Bell may have a lower IAT since it would be twiddling its thumbs at 6psi. That may mean more power. But if you swap out the little T25 you used in your example with something like my turbo (see my signature below), I probably have a lower IAT and thus potentially more power.

Also, if they are pretty equally matched, the engine will have to work less to make it on the turbo, injector duty cycle should be less, and it leaves room for more power on the turbo safer if you up the output (thus more boost).


By the way, A/R relates to the exhaust side of the turbo, not the compressor side. It determines the speed the compressor spins at a given engine exhaust flow/volume. It has nothing to do with compressor cfm at a given boost level.

You may have been thinking of the Compressor Wheel Trim or Compressor Wheel Size which would affect overall cfm at a given turbo rpm.

[Joe Walsh]

Boost and CFM are two totally different things. CFM is flow, pure and simple. Boost is the inability of your engine combo to process the cfm it has incoming.

I was wondering when someone would point out that psi/boost is merely a measure of the engine's intake "backpressure".
Change the cams, port the heads, put on a better intake manifold and the same SC combo will now show less boost yet make equal or more HP.

[RR|Suki]

I was wondering when someone would point out that psi/boost is merely a measure of the engine's intake "backpressure".
Change the cams, port the heads, put on a better intake manifold and the same SC combo will now show less boost yet make equal or more HP.

yep, when I did my exhaust I dropped 2psi and gained almost 80hp :burnout:

[babbage]

yep, when I did my exhaust I dropped 2psi and gained almost 80hp :burnout:


You should cheer up Bcastro (Mr. 324) with that tidbit. :D

[ImpalaSlayer]

yep, when I did my exhaust I dropped 2psi and gained almost 80hp :burnout:

they must have been that all mighty COBRA SHORTIES! :bows:

all hail the shorties! :bows:

[lifespeed]

The problem with a rear mounted turbo is you are giving up most of what makes Turbos so wonderful. The heat energy drives the turbine and provides all that 'free' compressor power while increasing the volumetric efficiency of the engine. The crankshaft doesn't have to transfer 80 HP of compressor power through the rods, pistons, and crankshaft. And when the turbo isn't needed, there is no efficiency penalty in the 'naturally aspirated' mode.

But turbos placed near the engine require headers be custom-fabricated for the Marauder. This is engineering a turbo kit. AFAIK, nobody has done this yet.

We need turbo headers for the Marauder.

[FordNut]

But turbos placed near the engine require headers be custom-fabricated for the Marauder. This is engineering a turbo kit. AFAIK, nobody has done this yet.

We need turbo headers for the Marauder.

It has been done, but it's a custom setup and not a kit.

[juno]

We need turbo headers for the Marauder.

I'll sell you mine when I am done with them. :)

[lifespeed]

I'll sell you mine when I am done with them. :)

I assume that was a joke. Did you fabricate them yourself? Are the turbos mounted up front? Any trouble routing the exhaust from the turbo back to the cats?

Any pics of the setup?

[Zack]

I assume that was a joke. Did you fabricate them yourself? Are the turbos mounted up front? Any trouble routing the exhaust from the turbo back to the cats?

Any pics of the setup?

He has the PTK Turbo kit made for a Marauder.
They are now out of business.

[juno]

Yeah, what Zack said. I have threads and such on here somewhere.
There are several outfits that make 4 valve turbo headers (Mustang kits). Not sure how they would fit the MM. I beleive the PTK ones were slightly differerent.

[lifespeed]

Yeah, what Zack said. I have threads and such on here somewhere.
There are several outfits that make 4 valve turbo headers (Mustang kits). Not sure how they would fit the MM. I beleive the PTK ones were slightly differerent.

I wonder what the chances of getting the specs/drawings/dimensions from the defunct PTK would be?

Fabbing a set would be much easier given a good starting point. Just buy some 321 SS (or 625 Inconel, my favorite!) and start welding.

[MrBluGruv]

PTK was actually based near where I live, if you watch the video of the PTK marauder on youtube you can see in a few fly-by shots a mall that's nearby.

I actually met a gentlemen at a local car meet that said he knew the guy(or one of the guys) that was involved with fabbing the PTK turbo kit for the Marauder and knew where he was working at now. At the time I didn't think to ask him where that was, but when I ran into him another time at the same meet I asked him about it and he said he had no clue what I was talking about. Needless to say, I was not amused.

[juno]

I wonder what the chances of getting the specs/drawings/dimensions from the defunct PTK would be?

Fabbing a set would be much easier given a good starting point. Just buy some 321 SS (or 625 Inconel, my favorite!) and start welding.

The majority of turbo folks prefer mild steel with ceramic coating.
You can ask around the web to find Dalton or perhaps pm Todd. He may know where to locate him. Maybe you can get Dalton to help you.
Or you can buy Todd's car!!!

[ntd]

I wonder what the chances of getting the specs/drawings/dimensions from the defunct PTK would be?

Fabbing a set would be much easier given a good starting point. Just buy some 321 SS (or 625 Inconel, my favorite!) and start welding.


PM kariamack he had all the PTK hotside pipeing he was looking to sell some time ago.

[lifespeed]

The majority of turbo folks prefer mild steel with ceramic coating.

Philosophic differences, I suppose. I can appreciate cheap. But given the amount of labor involved, I would rather spend some money on high-temperature piping that won't rot from the inside out. Time is money too, and I value reliability very highly. That is why I used 321 SS for my twin turbo boat headers.

I don't suppose with a passenger car you would be able to take a peek at the headers under load. On my boat, I have glanced back at the engine (briefly) to see the headers glowing orange!

[juno]

Philosophic differences, I suppose. I can appreciate cheap. But given the amount of labor involved, I would rather spend some money on high-temperature piping that won't rot from the inside out. Time is money too, and I value reliability very highly. That is why I used 321 SS for my twin turbo boat headers.
I

Not cheaping out, most prefer mild steel and ceramic coating for endurance, weight and heat retention. Too many problems with ss on street turbo cars. Temperatures are a lot higher then standard cars and cycling ss a lot is not good. Just because someone can weld a ss header on a regular motor does not mean their welds will stand up to a turbo. I suppose if you drive it as little as a boat gets driven it will probably last fine.

Check out theturboforums.com All the answers, even to questions you did not know existed. :)

[BODYMAN]

A TT set up can be done w/ frt mounted Turbos. But be ready to spend alot of $$ I found a guy just south of St Louis he mainly does Chrysler products but he will do anything. I asked him about possiblity of fabricating me a TT set up for my marauder he said yeah it can be done but almost every single part is gonna be one off or fabricated by himself. He out right said it the parts arent gonna be the killer its gonna be the labor. But he was so excited positive about it when we talked.

He also said here are the only ones Iuse in my TT set up's The Garret GT2871R for TT set ups. considering it is not a monster motor build if so we can go alot bigger and each turbo when he designs a kit . his reply!
I would MUCH rather fabricate my own kit then try to make
someone elses stuff work. I can supply/fabricate everything, we recently
did a TT Z06, ive also done a TT WS6 trans am and a single turbo SRT10 Ram
truck making almost 1400whp, as well as TONs of the SRT4 neons (530whp on
93 octane, another 640whp on race gas, etc.). Typical kits for V8 cars
start around $7000 depending on application, room to work, materials used,
turbo size, etc. (no fuel system or tuning system).
Thanks
Justin

He does almost no cookie cutter kits everything he does is a custom build set up. I have seen some of his work it is awesome If I had a extra 7,xxx I'd give him the car for the projected month or so he said it might take.

This is the 1st guy I have met that I would trust to do a TT set up on one of my MM's I know some dont like links here is his link http://jmbperformance.com/store/index.php?cPath=109_110

[Zack]

The real limiting factor to a good TT build on a Marauder is the crossmember.
Since there is no aftermarket piece available, the pipes need to be routed under it, or squeezed through up top.
I have a single kit mapped out in my head that is totally awesome, but the AC poses a problem

[BODYMAN]

The real limiting factor to a good TT build on a Marauder is the crossmember.
Since there is no aftermarket piece available, the pipes need to be routed under it, or squeezed through up top.
I have a single kit mapped out in my head that is totally awesome, but the AC poses a problem

Zack, That is one of the 1st issues he metioned to he said he had a similar problem with a specific year corvette The owner paid alot of $ to have a completely new crossmemeber machined for with exact clearrence for the pipes. He has done some pretty wild stuff but it all comes down to $ everysingle part is self fabricated ceramic coated and powder coated color of customers choice. He was a great guy to talk to just like one of us on the board.. If $ was off no concern I would get a very low mileage MM and give it to him. For how ever long he would need it. He did metion if there is a bunchof guys wanting this the cost would go down a little as his R&D can be spread out over other same jobs. Man get you & him together I couldnt even imagine what you 2 could come up with. He seems to be one of those guys very particular & self concious. I never once got the feeling from him like I know more than you say like some speed shops have done!!!!

[Zack]

If you found some really thick walled 3.5" round tubing you could make 2 holes in the factory crossmember and weld the tubing in so the piping could pass through.

[massacre]

On my boat, I have glanced back at the engine (briefly) to see the headers glowing orange!

Pics or it didn't happen :)

[BODYMAN]

If you found some really thick walled 3.5" round tubing you could make 2 holes in the factory crossmember and weld the tubing in so the piping could pass through.

Iam gonna go by his shop on Friday just check it out he metioned he has had to on several diff types fabricate a crossmemeber a few were done w/tubular and the heavier ones he said have been from solid ck alluminum and do all maching. Sounds like he is pretty in depth like you just has all the equipment to do these fabrications. He did say not all tuners no how to tune them properly didnt get into specifics on that.

[Fosters]

Did you really say that?
That was the best part of this thread :D