Car & Driver Disses Marauder-again

[Johnman]

In the new December 2003 issue of Car & Driver, John Phillips has written a humor column of "gearhead terms" that are being incorporated into our language. (Example: Aztek-"Characterized by truncated lines and intersecting angles not found in nature.")For Marauder he writes "Subatomic particle with minimal power, affects humans in no manner, evinces few traces of existence." This after they gleefully reported a few months ago that the Marauder had failed by a wide margin to meet it's 18k sales projection while the Hummer H2 was selling beyond expectations. Maybe they should change their name to "Truck & Driver"

[Logan]

John Phillips is an idiot. There...I said it. You hear me car & driver?! You employ MORONS. I wish I had a delete button that would work on THEM.

[joflewbyu2]

vw toureg won 1st place 1 year ago in a comparison test. now less than 1 year later - it came in last place. makes a lot of sense, huh? honda s2000 was last place in a comparison test less than 1 year ago. now 2 months ago - it came in 1st against the same competition it lost to less than 12 months before. same magazine, both tests within a year ago with flip flop results. Don't take them literally, there is an **** for every seat.

[TripleTransAm]

Why don't we send them letters (written in well-thought-out English, we don't want them to think we're knuckle-scraping morons like they are) expressing our opinions about the car?

As soon as I get a free moment tonight, I'm going to compose something outlining just how much fun this car has been.

[jgc61sr2002]

What Logan said. ^^^^^ C&D Needs :help:

[Johnman]

I gotta admit Phillips does make fun of the Hummer in the same column, but geez....the editorial quality seems to have declined in the past few years. I still like Brock Yates, though-the old curmudgeon.

[TripleTransAm]

If it's any consolation, Brock Yates wrote the screenplay to Smokey and the Bandit II :puke: :puke: :puke:


:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:


:puke: :puke:

:puke:


'Nuff said...

[Silver_04]

I had the misfortune of bumping in to Csere in Indy once-very uninteresting fella. It's no wonder C/D lacks in the creative writing dept. Not at all dissing the ol' Impala SS (I like the B-Body cars) but C/D seemed to like those, what gives? I hope one day that I pull up to a stoplight and one of those bums is sitting there in an Accord. We'll see who's underpowered then.

[bigslim]

Car and Driver likes very little made here in the USA. They must take big payoffs from Honda, Toyota and VW. That magazine is so bias.

[BillyGman]

Originally posted by bigslim
Car and Driver likes very little made here in the USA. They must take big payoffs from Honda, Toyota and VW. That magazine is so bias.

I think you hit the nail on the head w/that statement. I fully agree.

[89lxbill]

Advertising dollars going to work for them :) Honda, Toyota, etc must pay the most.

[Smokie]

That magazine mentioned above is an anti-american propaganda rag. I spend my money with companies and products that do not put money in the pockets of anti-american bastards.:mad2: :mad2:

[TripleTransAm]

At best, their writing is very erratic. No editorial direction, as far as I'm concerned.

One issue, they'll rant on and on about a certain car. Several down the line, they'll rag on it big time. And vice versa.

How many anti-F-body rants did I read in that mag? And then several months later, the F-body could do no wrong. And then it's back to b*tch b*tch b*tch...

It might be a case of it all getting to their heads... you know, the feeling that they can make or break an automobile's reputation.

I used to consult that magazine to gather as much data about a certain car as possible before buying it (or renting it, in the case of my travels). But recently it's just gotten to be so much drivel (one particular writer uses so many metaphors that an entire paragraph can go by before I figure out what exactly he's trying to convey).

Motor Trend is not far off, unfortunately... in this issue, they bash the Envoy XUV's off-road capability (a small rock punctured the oil pan), and in another article further along the issue, the Envoy XUV is praised for its offroad prowess. Sad...

[MapleLeafMerc]

No one should look to the 'popular press' for affirmation of their choice of car. The writers in these mags are as fallible as any of us; they just happen to have an open conduit for their opinions.

We at MM.net know what the MM is and don't need the approval of the press (although I understand the frustration felt when the press gives our car a bad review). Let us be better than them, and suffer their 'slings and arrows' in silence. Their ignorance is not our concern.

[Johnman]

C & D has definitely had an anti-domestic slant for quite some time now. It's true that domestic quality lagged behind the imports in the past, but the journalists don't seem to want to acknowledge how much the domestics have caught up. We have an "elite media" talking down to us in the mainstream press, and sadly, it seems we have the same thing in the automotive press.

[Donny Carlson]

I used to read C&D religiously 25 years ago, back before David E. Davis bailed on them and went on to launch Automobile magazine. It was well written, edited, informative, and entertaining. I remember laughing my Phillips off at the letters to the magazine (shortly after a south american leader had been offed by having his car blown up, a reader wrote about the widely circulated picture of the mercedes noting that even after being blown to bits it was still recognisable as a mercedes unlike American ****boxes of that time)

It has pretty much stunk up the magazine rack for years now, and I haven't picked up a copy for over a decade.

[SergntMac]

Seems it's all been said now. I haven't a comment left to call my own.

So, all I can add here, is that C&D/MT never tested any car anywhere wearing a kilt, and that's a serious oversight in my book.

There is a whole new dimension and meaning to "cold air path" we need to keep some numbers on, and neither C&D nor MT has the staff that can check that for us.

OTOH, Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords...We should be thankful that some of them dudes wear any clothes at all, the way they hang 'em out...

Just my .02c...
"Batman."

[MapleLeafMerc]

Originally posted by Johnman
We have an "elite media" talking down to us in the mainstream press, and sadly, it seems we have the same thing in the automotive press.

Sad, but true. Most in the media are lefty/wimpies at best, MM.net members excepted.

[RCSignals]

C+D made a statement about the Marauder, and even though they were wrong, they will never concede. It's just the way they are.
I've said before, Ford should never have stated any sales goal publicly. Just "Limited availability" would have done.

[67435animal]

Like, who reads Car and Driver??

Bob :o

[JohnnyB]

I don't regard the opinions of automotive journalists when purchasing a car. It's my $$ and I'll spend it my way!!

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by Donny Carlson
I used to read C&D religiously 25 years ago...

It has pretty much stunk up the magazine rack for years now, and I haven't picked up a copy for over a decade.

There you have it...as long as the ignorant buying public continues to read this obviously anti-American bird-cage-liner, there will always be a C&D...next time I'm in the market for an over-priced fugly Euro-trash SUV, I'll happily consult them...

[Paul T. Casey]

My automotive purchases are greatly influenced by C-D. I learned many years ago, if they bash it, I'm gonna love it. IMHO the more bad press from their likes, the better I feel about being another happy Marauder owner. BTW, what else is in this class of vehicle? Those 700 BMW's, we got better ride quality at 100mph (forget which mag stated this). Any Caddie, we got RWD. Volvo? I ain't drivin' no box. Let's face it, there's no competiton in our class. Note: I often feel this way after a 1000 mile trip, just have too much fun.

[tomd]

Guess Mercury Didn't Pay Um Enough Money?

:lol:

[marauder307]

Don't read these things (C&D, MT) too regularly, but when I do, there's usually some comparison test in there, with maybe one or two domestic cars, and then a whole gaggle**** of foreign ones.
Inevitably, the foreigns take #s 1, 2, and 3 in the tests. Even when they do like a domestic (like say, the Focus SVT) they end up damming it with faint praise. "Oh yeah, and the Focus is good too. But have you tried the Beemer?"

What the hell is the matter with these people? I dunno...what's interesting is that the Focus SVT is no less a ricer than any of its competition, but just because it says "Ford" and not "Mitsubishi"...it still gets dumped on anyway. Proof positive that the mags are completely biased. If they gonna be that way, they could at least try to hide their knee-jerk reactions. Kinda goes with what an earlier poster in this thread was saying, about the press talking down to us all. He was right, of course...

Had a buddy of mine last night go off on me about the superior quality of Japanese products. Guy's only owned one domestic (a 1970 F-bird Esprit, 350-2bbl, 3-spd man) since I've known him...about 15-16 years now. Used to own a trio of Z-cars. Now he's thinking about a new GTO, which is marginally domestic...at least, the engine is. For a brief period, I thought I had 'im talked into a MM, but then that GTO hype started and that was that. Y'know, the guy lives at Vandenberg AFB....mebbe NBCShooter and the boys could pay him a visit and show him what a real car looks like...

Just Sunday morning rambling. Thanks for reading!

[Long Live #3]

Car and Driver hires people who don't know how to drive a car and don't know how to think either. That's why I subscribed to Motor Trend.

[sailsmen]

I believe JD Powers reported the Hummer rated last in new car owner satisfaction vs the Marauder ranking first in it's class.

THey also don't point out that what is fueling Hummer sales is the accelerated depreciation it qualifies for due to it's GVW that makes it "free" for business owners in the higher income bracktes.

[gilby04]

Just an observation...
It SEEMS like many new movies that are rated "worthwhile viewing", or "awesome", or "best ever", are really quite un-pleasing to me.
On the other hand, it SEEMS that some movies that are deemed just a waste of your valuable time, I really enjoy.
Perhaps my choices/likes/dislikes may SEEM "different" to other "experts".
But, it SEEMS that over the last 58 years, the most important task at hand was to please just ME. !
It SEEMS to me that everyone on this site shares this common denominator.
My 2 week old DTR MM is quite pleasing to me...no SEEM to it.
It SEEMS like the "experts" have overlooked the obvious (again) and don't have the foggiest how much fun they're missing.
Do I SEEM overly optimistic, or just pleasantly pleased ?

[WolfeBros]

Originally posted by Logan
John Phillips is an idiot. There...I said it. You hear me car & driver?! You employ MORONS. I wish I had a delete button that would work on THEM.

And the cheers of Logan Logan Logan were heard through out
Marauder Land.............:up: :rock:

[prchrman]

Originally posted by Logan
John Phillips is an idiot. There...I said it. You hear me car & driver?! You employ MORONS. I wish I had a delete button that would work on THEM.

Yeah Logan next time say what you mean...don't beat around the bush...JK...and yes you are oh so correct young one...my driving limit for one day is 8 hours in a good comfortable car (MM of course) and 1 hour in some of this junk c/d says is great...my kidneys just cann't take it...things are so rough you can run over a dime and tell if's it heads or tails...and bump bump bump on the interstate...man it's like water torture...willie

[Mad1]

Originally posted by MapleLeafMerc
Sad, but true. Most in the media are lefty/wimpies at best, MM.net members excepted.

It's a good thing you added that last part.
:mad2:

I was seriously thinking about closing the U.S. border and letting you freeze up there in "Not France, but close enough." :flamer:

Come on. We're not all lefties. (I'm right-headed ... -handed.)

Mad1
Jeremy

Proud member of the Fourth Estate.

[Dr Caleb]

Originally posted by Mad1
"Not France, but close enough." :flamer:



I didn't realize the US bordered France.. :confused:

You didn't like his comment about our Fourth Estate, so you figured on flaming every Canadian member here? Not good my friend, not good.

You don't have to deal with our media. The CBC (publicly funded) is so left biased if it were your car, you'd take it back.

[67435animal]

Originally posted by Dr Caleb
I didn't realize the US bordered France.. :confused:

You didn't like his comment about our Fourth Estate, so you figured on flaming every Canadian member here? Not good my friend, not good.

You don't have to deal with our media. The CBC (publicly funded) is so left biased if it were your car, you'd take it back.

Didn't the CBC train Peter Jennings??

Bob (born and raised in TO so don't flame me :D )

[Dr Caleb]

Originally posted by 67435animal
Didn't the CBC train Peter Jennings??

Bob (born and raised in TO so don't flame me :D )

Peter Jennings was trainable? Who da thunk! :lol:

[Mad1]

Glenn,

And here I was thinking everyone up there in Canada was mild-mannered.

But at least I didn't have to check with the government before I said it. ;)

Hope you're staying warm.

Mad1
Jeremy

[Dr Caleb]

Heck no Jeremy, -20 degrees overnight!
:)

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by 67435animal
Bob (born and raised in TO so don't flame me :D )


I'm sure you have other redeeming qualities that will make up for this particular shortcoming...

;)

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Mad1
And here I was thinking everyone up there in Canada was mild-mannered.


Mild-mannered? Heck no... it's just that we try to keep ourselves nicely drugged up with appreciable quantities of good (ie. real) beer. Unfortunately, judging by the temps Glenn has been subjected to lately... looks like his beer supply's plum froze over!! :help:

[EbonyMarauder03]

It doesn't matter what rag you read these days. Sunday morning I was watching all the automotive stuff on Speed that I could. When watching Motorweek I saw watched as some grunge looking, snot nosed punk started poking around some car. It's sad that they don't have real car people writing these reviews anymore. Letting Jap Crap rev tuners review a Marauder is like letting kayakers review a Bayliner with twin 454 Mercruisers. The bottom line is all cars have their strengths and weaknesses and you need to road test them and search the internet where free minds still roam.

[Billatpro]

While I have always known these rags have never held a printed word I would want to read, I have assumed some one wants to or they would not still be publishing. I have always been a motorhead and my taste in car mag's has always run to Hot Rod, Car Craft and so on.
Having said that let me say that I put very little "faith" in any of these rag's, I can judge a car for myself and don't need an "expert" to tell me what I want or need in a car. It was mentioned that we at least have MMFF to turn to, well in the last issue the mention of the Maruder in that rag was not what you would call "Steller Praise" and in fact was some what back handed in it's remarks. These are "Mustang" guy's and they really should think about removing the FF from the cover of the mag! it's 99 and 44/100's pure Pony! The bottom line here is "what the hell do you care what they say" Did I ever tell you guy's that I really "Love this Car"

[ik04]

I think the last car review I read and respected was from a gentleman named JOE GUTS!

Remember him? (Popular Science)

Good stuff 35 years ago....

Kevin

[Bigdogjim]

If you read that article you will realize that he trash a lot of car icons. Not just Marauder. I feel it was an attempt at humor?

If you did read the Marauder road test last July '02 it was pretty much right on the money.

Call 'em as you see 'em!

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by Dr Caleb

You don't have to deal with our media. The CBC (publicly funded) is so left biased if it were your car, you'd take it back.

But they brought us "Royal Canadian Air Farce", "This hour has 22 minutes", "Red Green", "Chez Helene", "the Beach Combers" ..... :lol:

[RCSignals]

"Attempt" at humour maybe

The July review had some points that were right on the money, but the article generally wasn't right on the money. Then they made it worse by making little pointed remarks about the car all through the year, as they continue to do.
Where is their review of the performance improved '04s? Where is their review of what people are doing with these cars? If it were from another manufacturer you can bet there would be many articles on what the aftermarket has brought and how track times can easily be improved.

[67435animal]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
I'm sure you have other redeeming qualities that will make up for this particular shortcoming...

;)

Sure, like I own a 300A MM??

Bob

[SergntMac]

Car and Driver covered my MM in the April, '02 issue, and they did a pretty good job of it too. Granted, by and large, C&D covers imports better than domestics, but what comes first here? Are they dancing to the music of the buyers? Or, playing it?

In this electronic world, any publication will have a difficult time keeping their doors open and their head above water. Somewhere ^ there, someone suggests that MM&FF has little to do with anything not a Mustang. I agree, but who is buying their magazine, and what do they want to read about? Moreover, who is buying advertising space in their magazine, also trying to keep their doors open? Given it's 40 year history, anything Mustang fails to really impress me anymore.

But, we do deserve some of that "Fast Ford" space. We've earned it.

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
we try to keep ourselves nicely drugged up with appreciable quantities of good (ie. real) beer. Unfortunately, judging by the temps Glenn has been subjected to lately... looks like his beer supply's plum froze over!! :help:

Good beer doesn't freeze ;)

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by Billatpro
It was mentioned that we at least have MMFF to turn to, well in the last issue the mention of the Maruder in that rag was not what you would call "Steller Praise" and in fact was some what back handed in it's remarks.

That's true, and it's odd because their initial review of the Marauder was good. their published performance/track times were probably the most realistic as well.
I remember them making a comment how these "large" cars are not usually what interests them, but they gave the Marauder praise for surprising them with what it is capable of

[Dr Caleb]

Originally posted by RCSignals
Good beer doesn't freeze ;)

Mmmmmm, beersicles...

[VaderSS]

Not at all dissing the ol' Impala SS (I like the B-Body cars) but C/D seemed to like those, what gives?

C/D was lukewarm on the SS, back in the day...
http://www.ericohlsen.com/info

Some praise, plenty of critiscism, even questioning whether the car had a place.

[sailsmen]

When I ran 14.554 at the track last nite w/ 80*F and 80% humidity several people were impressed.

I was the only 4 door there.

Mostly Mustangs and Camaros, very fast ones too.

A few Pick Ups which could not break 15.00.

[Billatpro]

Originally posted by SergntMac
Car and Driver covered my MM in the April, '02 issue, and they did a pretty good job of it too. Granted, by and large, C&D covers imports better than domestics, but what comes first here? Are they dancing to the music of the buyers? Or, playing it?

In this electronic world, any publication will have a difficult time keeping their doors open and their head above water. Somewhere ^ there, someone suggests that MM&FF has little to do with anything not a Mustang. I agree, but who is buying their magazine, and what do they want to read about? Moreover, who is buying advertising space in their magazine, also trying to keep their doors open? Given it's 40 year history, anything Mustang fails to really impress me anymore.

But, we do deserve some of that "Fast Ford" space. We've earned it.

That Mac would be my point! If they are going to dangle the "FF" banna, then damn it lets see some!! :D

[harpatlaw]

Who cares about Phillips? Check out the December KIPLINGER'S personal finance magazine that rates the best new cars. In the $ $30,000 to $40,000 division the Mercury Marauder is rated "Best in Class." "Muscle-car roots, ample power and space to spare belie a refined ride, nimble handling and lots of luxury touches. The Marauder gets high marks for safety, too."

[Beadhead]

In the rag mags' defense, I bought my MM knowing I would have to mod it to achieve the kind of performance advertised by FMC. They're right when they complain that, out of the box , it can't live up to its over-hyped marketing. Its just too bad the mags don't give any credence to the outstanding performance value offered by even a mildly modded MM (thank you, Dennis!).

[MapleLeafMerc]

Originally posted by harpatlaw
Who cares about Phillips? Check out the December KIPLINGER'S personal finance magazine that rates the best new cars. In the $ $30,000 to $40,000 division the Mercury Marauder is rated "Best in Class." "Muscle-car roots, ample power and space to spare belie a refined ride, nimble handling and lots of luxury touches. The Marauder gets high marks for safety, too."

Thanks for the info, but is there an internet link or do we have to buy a hard copy?

[MapleLeafMerc]

Originally posted by Beadhead
In the rag mags' defense, I bought my MM knowing I would have to mod it to achieve the kind of performance advertised by FMC. They're right when they complain that, out of the box , it can't live up to its over-hyped marketing. Its just too bad the mags don't give any credence to the outstanding performance value offered by even a mildly modded MM (thank you, Dennis!).

Beadhead, thank you for your comment about Ford's Marauder marketing. :up:

I also think Ford over-hyped the MM. They talked about horsepower, never mileage (see 'shift points'). I even have a brochure that shows smoking tires at a dragstrip. If that is not bragging about performance (versus mileage), I don't know what is and I will be happy to quit this site and leave everyone here alone.

If they had not oversold the vehicle's stock capabilities I would be less critical of my stock MM. But they over sold it. They didn't tell me it would take thousands of dollars above the purchase price to get the smoking tire experience the brochure showed.

Everyone please believe me when I say I LOVE THE MARAUDER. I cannot think of another car i would rather have. I just appreciate truth in advertising. Sorry if I have hurt anyone's feelings. I just hope that those who decided they needed to modify their stock MM for better performance (and had the money to do so) realize where I am coming from.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by MapleLeafMerc
If they had not oversold the vehicle's stock capabilities I would be less critical of my stock MM. But they over sold it. They didn't tell me it would take thousands of dollars above the purchase price to get the smoking tire experience the brochure showed.

Everyone please believe me when I say I LOVE THE MARAUDER. I cannot think of another car i would rather have. I just appreciate truth in advertising. Sorry if I have hurt anyone's feelings. I just hope that those who decided they needed to modify their stock MM for better performance (and had the money to do so) realize where I am coming from.

No harm here, Maple, I think you are dead bang on. Maybe LM didn't speak any words they would have to account for today, but the advertising/marketing (as a whole plan) was clearly misleading. Shame on you LM!

I'm still inclined to give LM a break here, I can only imagine some of the internal pro/con arguments that may have taken place in HQ hallways. After you meet and speak with someone the likes of Steve Babcock, it's hard to imagine that we do not have any friends at the factory. Yet, every once in a while, it appears we do not, and I can't help wondering is the the cons are now working in the warrantee division.

Add it up anyway you wish, I am still tickled to death that this car was produced. I have never had this much fun before. Never.

[sailsmen]

I agree in that the car should have had more performance stock.

For the record I spent less then $1,300 installed on performance mods. At the track I power braked to 2,000 RPM and spun all the way into second gear with the car staring to go sideways. I had to let up or I would have hit the wall.

The inside of my fender wells and rear valance are completely covered with tire debris!

[TripleG]

I asked the same question yeserday while I was picking my MM at J & M Performance (installed Dennis Stage I). They made a good point. Car mfg. have to deal with governmet regs, mpg etc.. So there not one car out there Vette to VW that should have had more performance stock. He has a steady stream of Vette owners looking for more. I'm with SergntMac I haven't had this much fun with a car. Almost better the playing golf

[RCSignals]

Well, other than the image of smoking tires, Fords words about the Marauder were pretty much on the money as far as I'm concerned. Just what did they say about it that it isn't?

Some people (LML) have had no trouble doing smokey burnouts in their stock MM ;)

[Bobby Clobber]

Hey, it's still 300 hp at a bargain and it looks and runs like a 60's muscle car right out of the box , let alone what Dennis and others have done to make this Mercury a latter day legend.

I for one have never regretted my decision and despite the C@D crap this is still the car I hoped it would be and more. Black Sinister and Impressive, it makes a hell of a statement.

[Michael_S]

Originally posted by RCSignals
But they brought us *snip* "Red Green" *snip* :lol:

At last! Someone besides a family member who has heard of the Red Green Show. I live outside Philadelphia, and whenever I mention "Red Green" people look at me like I grew another head. Hilarious show.

I wouldn't sweat the review. Journalists have personal bias just like everyone else.

[dflynn5]

I have no problem with C&D dissing the MM. These folks have zero credibility with me. They are consistent in being almost always WRONG and they have a left coast bias towards everything import.

Besides. The MM will be deemed a classic in a few years time. Of this I have no doubt and by the same morons who think little of the car today. You folks will have the last laugh. Take care of your Marauders.

[Marc]

I'm a little young to remember, but aren't these the same guys that made the LeCar the car of the year? Maybe that was some other "well qualified" auto writer. C&D is the LATimes of car publications.

[hitchhiker]

At last! Someone besides a family member who has heard of the Red Green Show. I live outside Philadelphia, and whenever I mention "Red Green" people look at me like I grew another head. Hilarious show.

I wouldn't sweat the review. Journalists have personal bias just like everyone else.
I like the Red Green show, but our local PBS does not carry it.

Best Regards,

David

[hitchhiker]

I'm a little young to remember, but aren't these the same guys that made the LeCar the car of the year? Maybe that was some other "well qualified" auto writer. C&D is the LATimes of car publications.

Of course, Car and Drivel is Froggie (French) owned!

:lol: