Brake booster and master cylinder from under 40k mile Marauder

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I am looking for a good master cylinder and brake booster from a Marauder with under 40k miles. My 03 has terrible brakes and always has, and I have had enough and am ready to do some parts swapping.

[fastblackmerc]

Why not try SS lines?

[SILVERSURFER03]

Call me i have somthing here

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Fast, stock brakes should work correctly, I have driven another Marauder to know how they are supposed to feel. I don't want to bandaid this problem before fixing it.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I forgot to add, it has to be from a car WITHOUT traction control. The part #s are different in the Hollander interchange, just looked it up.

[SILVERSURFER03]

Ok both mine are 300a cars w/o trac

[2vmodular]

if you're wondering what's inside the 2001+ non-t/c master cylinder, take a look at this link:

http://www.p71interceptor.com/brakesystem/hydraulic/disassembly/mastercylinder/2004

http://www.p71interceptor.com/brakesystem/hydraulic/disassembly/mastercylinder/2004/PICT1176-vi.jpg

[03mmmonroe]

I am looking for a good master cylinder and brake booster from a Marauder with under 40k miles. My 03 has terrible brakes and always has, and I have had enough and am ready to do some parts swapping.


I did that same parts swapping back in 2004 on my 2003a. The peddle feel and travel did not change. The only way I have fixed the concern was to upgrade the front calipers. I also have seen this concern on P71 and the concern is with the amount of travel from the front calipers and not the master or booster. Hope this helps.
PS in 2204 I did the stainless steel lines and did not feel a change.

Sorry to be a killer of great news.

Russ pm me if you want to talk about my findings.

[Zack]

Ive driven dozens of stock brake MM's.
Every single one had a different pedal feel and braking ability.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Ive driven dozens of stock brake MM's.
Every single one had a different pedal feel and braking ability.
That is not a good thing to find with production built cars. I know the build quality of these cars is not great but brakes should all be the same. Unless of course people are running different compound pads, that obviously will affect the pedal feel and pressure required, but I am running brand new quality non drilled or slotted rotors and stock oem pads.


I did that same parts swapping back in 2004 on my 2003a. The peddle feel and travel did not change. The only way I have fixed the concern was to upgrade the front calipers.

Why is it that the 2004 I drove had a very high, short pedal travel before the brakes fully grabbed? I don't think the calipers are different from my 300a?

[LeoVampire]

There is an ajustment screw at the end of the Boosters plunger. Turn it out a little bit and then reinstall the master.

Byt hand put the master firmly in place and feel if there is pressure against it or not. If there is no pressure and to seat it is not a battle then you are fine to put the nuts back on.

Cuts down on travel distance for the brake peddle and gets the master to use a longer stroke in applying the brake fluid pressure to the wheels.

That and the braided brake hose's will give you plenty of brakeing ability with the stock set up.

All I have to do is tap the peddel with my foot and I get a reaction.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Thanke leo, when I change the master I will adjust that rod.

I am pretty sure there is something wrong with my master because if I bleed the brakes, I get a high, hard pedal but it only lasts a few days. That's not kosher.

[tbone]

My brakes have been sorta weak too. When I had the fluid changed, it made it a lot better. Could still use more improvement though.

[LeoVampire]

Thanke leo, when I change the master I will adjust that rod.

I am pretty sure there is something wrong with my master because if I bleed the brakes, I get a high, hard pedal but it only lasts a few days. That's not kosher.

When bleeding the brakes after the master gets some miles on it and a few years down the road those rubber seals inside of it does make a wear pattern in the soft aluminum over time and the rubbers lose thier ability to hold shape over time when forced to go into a non groved area of the master during a manual bleeding process with someone on the brake peddel.

It is better to use a pressure bleeder and force the fluid through the lines without useing the brake peddel. I have seen many masters fail after someone does a manual bleed pushing the master plungers further than they are use to going on a car and needing to replace it after words just for that reason.

18797

18798

18799

[2vmodular]

there is also a brake booster with different valving inside avaliable for these cars. the one you guys want for your 2003-2004 marauders was used in the 2001-2002 crown victoria police interceptor.

http://www.p71interceptor.com/powerpedals/01booster.jpg

[2vmodular]

you can use the 1995-2000 police interceptor brake boosters in your marauder too. but you'll need to swapout pedal boxes inside the car. and you'll loose your power adjustable pedals. the 95-00 booster has a different pedal box rod than the one used in the 03-04 marauders.

http://www.p71interceptor.com/powerpedals/98booster.jpg

1998 crownvic pedal box next to the adjustable pedal box used in the 03-04 marauders

http://www.p71interceptor.com/powerpedals/pedalsfront.jpg

[2vmodular]

be careful playing with that power brake booster adjuster rod. you can cause the brakes to drag and wear out brake pads really quick or possible overheat and warp stuff too.


when I change the master I will adjust that rod.

[2vmodular]

have you tried replacing the caliper flex hoses?

[LeoVampire]

be careful playing with that power brake booster adjuster rod. you can cause the brakes to drag and wear out brake pads really quick or possible overheat and warp stuff too.


That's why I mentioned when putting the master on he should seat it by hand and make sure there is no resistance in trying to do it before putting the holding nuts in place so he can feel if he adjusted it out too far where it is applying the piston plungers inside the master.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Interesting. I doubt a 40k mile master cylinder has a wear pattern on it, I do have a mighty vac with a vacuum bleeder but I rarely use it. I always end up bleeding by having a helper pump the pedal and have never hurt anything doing it that way, even on insanely high mileage stuff. The way the pedal feels now a couple days after bleeding is how it felt before I started trying to bleed anything in the first place. I gotta clean the marauder well enough not to scratch it with fender covers and I might get around to swapping the master and booster over my 3 day weekend. Will report back.

[LeoVampire]

Interesting. I doubt a 40k mile master cylinder has a wear pattern on it, I do have a mighty vac with a vacuum bleeder but I rarely use it. I always end up bleeding by having a helper pump the pedal and have never hurt anything doing it that way, even on insanely high mileage stuff. The way the pedal feels now a couple days after bleeding is how it felt before I started trying to bleed anything in the first place. I gotta clean the marauder well enough not to scratch it with fender covers and I might get around to swapping the master and booster over my 3 day weekend. Will report back.

If you were closer I would say I'd take care of it for you and make sure your happy with it.

I have plan's for the future to get a rebuilt booster and then do the color work on it like I did for the motor. But have to wait and see how the money keeps flowing before doing something else outside of this years plans already in play.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Thanks for the offer, I don't have anyone else work on my cars though so I'll wade through this and hopefully get it squared away one way or 'tother. It might take me a while to get it right if the booster/master isn't the problem and I need to get my friend with a tech 2 to help me service bleed it, but that's okay, I'm not driving the car right now.

[LeoVampire]

Thanks for the offer, I don't have anyone else work on my cars though so I'll wade through this and hopefully get it squared away one way or 'tother. It might take me a while to get it right if the booster/master isn't the problem and I need to get my friend with a tech 2 to help me service bleed it, but that's okay, I'm not driving the car right now.

When it comes to my own cars I always work on them myself. I just bring the Marauder to the dealer for the fluid services because they seem to be able to do it cheaper than I can myself and it shows up in the car fax info that all sevices have been performed and reported to show proof for any warenty **** that might pop up.

Even though I do the brakes and tune up's on her because I buy the parts through them they list it as though my dealership did the work to cover my butt with the warenty LOL!!

[2vmodular]

have you recently inspected the condition of the rear brake pads?

these cars don't have any squeal tabs or other warning systems when the pads get really worn down. although the rear pads don't contribute much to total stopping power compared to the fronts, they have a big impact on brake pedal feel.

[2vmodular]

the brake boosters on these cars usually have a good long lifespan. the most common failure mode for them is brake fluid contamination from leaking master cylinder rear cup seals like pictured below. if you want another brake booster to do a custom paint job on, you might consider using a salvage yard booster from a wrecked car if funds are limited.


I have plan's for the future to get a rebuilt booster and then do the color work on it like I did for the motor. But have to wait and see how the money keeps flowing before doing something else outside of this years plans already in play.

http://www.p71interceptor.com/valvecovers/removereinstall/lh/PICT8623-vi.jpg

http://www.p71interceptor.com/valvecovers/removereinstall/lh/PICT8684-vi.jpg

[2vmodular]

for removing the brake booster nuts inside the car, i found this combination of tools works well. this combo consists of a 3/8" ratchet, a bunch of 3/8" wobble bars, a 3/8"->1/2" adapter, a 1/2" flex head adapter, and a deep 1/2" socket.

http://www.p71interceptor.com/valvecovers/removereinstall/lh/PICT9031-vi.jpg

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Front and rear pads and rotors are new, like new with less than 1,000 miles on them.

Thanks for the wobble bars tip, I have some but probably not quite that many.

I already have sourced the booster and master, they are from a junkyard Marauder with under 30k miles on it and they don't need to be repainted

[Big Black Beast]

I thought you bled them awhile back and it solved this problem?
Maybe I imagined that.
Anyway, SS brake lines should help firm up the pedal.
My brakes don't feel quite as "there" as I feel they should be. I always just assumed it was ABS or something.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I did bleed them, it did firm the pedal up and bring it up like it should be, but the pedal got spongey and fell back down pretty quickly. I have converted other cars to stainless lines, I don't feel that's necessary since all I want is correctly functioning stock brakes

[2vmodular]

if you're talking about stainless steel flex hoses to connect the hard steel brake lines to the brake calipers, i'd stay away from them for a street driven car. they tend to collect debris in between the steel braid & teflon hose inside. this can result in hose failure from internal abrasion.

for a show car or drag track car that doesn't see much use, the stainless flex hoses can be a good option. they look really attractive cosmetically too.


Why not try SS lines?

[2vmodular]

rubber changes texture with age and exposure to heat. you might consider replacing all 4 flex hoses on the car with new service assemblies due to their age. for a street driven car, i prefer the stock style rubber flex hoses like you do.


I have converted other cars to stainless lines, I don't feel that's necessary since all I want is correctly functioning stock brakes

[LeoVampire]

If so how many miles of use on them?

There is just a narrow rubber seal inside around the piston that get's tired over time and use especialy if the contaminated fluid builds up too much inbetween brake bleeding. That is the only thing that returns the piston after releasing the brake pedel.

The outer seal you can see around the pistons are just dust boots bascily.

It is cheap to buy a new seal kit and rebuild the calipers. The only tools that can help the job in making it easier are an air compressor and blow gun and a few rags with a hammer handle.

Damm I need to make a how to post on rebuilding calipers sometime or another. I plan to rebuild my own so when I do it I will post the process as best as possable.

[2vmodular]

here's an interesting document that i found about the caliper square seals:

http://www.p71interceptor.com/brakesystem/hydraulic/disassembly/calipers/pdfs/squareseal/ucxsquareseal.pdf

another problem that is often encountered in the "rust belt" states is seized bleeder valves. most shops around here install complete remanufactured caliper assemblies instead of fighting with the individual parts though.

http://www.p71interceptor.com/brakesystem/hydraulic/disassembly/calipers/PICT0408-vi.jpg

http://www.p71interceptor.com/brakesystem/hydraulic/disassembly/calipers/PICT0396-vi.jpg

[LeoVampire]

Glad you found and posted the article for the others to see.

This is why bleeding the brakes @ least every 2 years is important because the contaminated fluid helps to speed up the process in the seal losing it's ability to pull the piston back.

2vmodular

As you can see it's only the outer dust shield and the square cut seal involved with the rebuild and of course clean up the pistons and use brake assembly lube all over the piston and seals which is compatable with brake fluid so no issues arise after the fact.

[martyo]

I did bleed them, it did firm the pedal up and bring it up like it should be, but the pedal got spongey and fell back down pretty quickly. I have converted other cars to stainless lines, I don't feel that's necessary since all I want is correctly functioning stock brakes

Swap the master cylinder and flush all of the fluid.

I am experiencing the same problem on my car with 65,xxx miles and this is what I have been advised to do.

The master cylinder if $75 from O'Reilly's with a core, or about $110 without.

I hope to have this finished up next week (the master cylinder had to be ordered).

I will post up if this fixes the problem.

[2vmodular]

usually the piston is in reusable condition, but not always.

also, rebuilding brake calipers is a messy job. when you insert the compressed air nozzle into the caliper, brake fluid often squirts out. when the pistons pop out, yet more fluid leaks out. brake fluid is nasty stuff that is toxic to ingest, eats paint off of metal, and will dissolve many plastics too.

i suppose you could outsource the caliper rebuild to a place like http://www.goldlinebrakes.com. this place will sandblast your calipers and apply an attractive looking polymer coating as well.



As you can see it's only the outer dust shield and the square cut seal involved with the rebuild and of course clean up the pistons and use brake assembly lube all over the piston and seals which is compatable with brake fluid so no issues arise after the fact.

[2vmodular]

here are a couple brake related articles from undercar digest that you might find useful:

http://www.p71interceptor.com/brakesystem/hydraulic/disassembly/calipers/pdfs/UndercarDigestPhotoTech.pdf
http://www.p71interceptor.com/brakesystem/hydraulic/disassembly/calipers/pdfs/undercar_digest_brake_installa tion_guide.pdf

[martyo]

Swap the master cylinder and flush all of the fluid.

I am experiencing the same problem on my car with 65,xxx miles and this is what I have been advised to do.

The master cylinder if $75 from O'Reilly's with a core, or about $110 without.

I hope to have this finished up next week (the master cylinder had to be ordered).

I will post up if this fixes the problem.

I swapped out the master cylinder (as someone here said, be sure to get the correct traction control model if your car is so equipped).

I also flushed the entire system as the fluid was clearly contaminated.

The pedal is way better.

If someone else is going to do this repair, I highly recommend doing the flex lines as well (I wish I had....).

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Huh? I have rebuilt calipers before. Calipers aren't on my list because nothing sticks or leaks. I am going to do the master and booster and report back, I have not gotten to it yet. I have a lot of welding to do on somethin else and I am changing struts again on my Taurus because I don't like the damping rate of the ones I put in a few weeks ago, and then I am going to re align the car meself. That should keep me busy long enough I probably won't get to the Marauder this weekend either. Maybe I will.

[2vmodular]

a couple days ago, i replaced the master cylinder in my 1998 crownvic with a new cardone select unit because of a slow external leak around the rear cup seal. i didn't really have any complaints about how the brake pedal felt before, but it somehow feels higher, firmer, and more responsive now.

i pulled the old master cylinder apart and found a few light scratches in the aluminum bore around where the rear cup seals would normally ride. that definetly explains the leak.

how did your master cylinder replacement project go? did you use the ford ids scantool to do a service bleed after you got the new master cylinder installed?