EGR delete, yes or no?

[Sully008]

Hello all,

This spring I will finally be installing the Kooks headers I bought 3 years ago, but I have some questions.

The headers I have don't have the extension for the EGR tube (I bought them used at a price I couldn't pass up).

Option 1: In order to run these, I would remove the EGR tube, EGR valve from the engine, and build a plate to block off the remaining hole, correct? I would also have to turn off the EGR setting in the tune once I get it dyno'd.

Option 2: I did buy the EGR extension from Kooks, but I don't have the exact location or measurement to place it. I guess I would have to dry fit the header, mark the spot, take it off and get someone to weld it on. Seems like a lot of wasted time, unless I learn how to weld myself.

So, my questions are:

1. Is there any benefit to running without the EGR system? There is no emissions testing where I live.

2. Which seems to be the easier option? Personally I think option 1 is the easier route, but then again I wouldn't have to remove anything with option 2.

TIA,
:beer:

[musclemerc]

If you delete the egr you will have a terrible smell from the exhaust. I would have it welded in.

[ImpalaSlayer]

If you delete the egr you will have a terrible smell from the exhaust. I would have it welded in.
not true my exhaust smells normal

[FordNut]

I deleted mine, but only because with my mods the EGR valve wouldn't fit. I would have preferred to keep it intact.

If I were in your shoes, having headers without the stub and fitting attached at all, I would delete the EGR system. Most of us will eventually have to deal with emissions testing though. It's possible the car will be gone (sold, wrecked, whatever) before that happens, so it won't be a problem in that case.

[Sully008]

Thanks for the replies, gentlemen. So far 2 for no EGR, one for. I'm leaning more towards taking it off. Fordnut, Impalaslayer did you guys make your own block off plate? I will have to drive the car to the dyno shop, which is across town. I know that I'll probably trip the check engine light and some codes will appear, but will there be any adverse effects from driving the car to the shop (no WOT, no boost)?

[ImpalaSlayer]

yeah i made my own plate, its really easy

[Sully008]

Nice. I'll be going this route. I have a couple of months to go before I actually get to wrench on the car (stupid winter). I'm just getting my ducks in a row.
:beer:


yeah i made my own plate, its really easy

While I have your ear, are you still running 4 o2 sensors? I'm 99% sure the rear o2 sensors are shut off in the Trilogy tune, so I was planning on either removing the sensors completely or running MIL eliminators on the them, and not adding the o2 bungs after the cats. Did you require extenders for the front 2 sensors?

[ImpalaSlayer]

yup still have all 4 hooked up even though the rears are turned off. i did not need extenders either.

[DOOM]

Not one on mine either
The exhaust fumes are STRONG!!!

[ImpalaSlayer]

Not one on mine either
The exhaust fumes are STRONG!!!


really? mine dont really smell any diferent

[DOOM]

Mine will knock you on your ass!

[DTUB]

No EGR... Just run race gas and it'll smell purdy.

[FordNut]

Made my own blockoff plate, and it won't hurt the car to run without it.

[burt ragio]

Nice. I'll be going this route. I have a couple of months to go before I actually get to wrench on the car (stupid winter). I'm just getting my ducks in a row.
:beer:



While I have your ear, are you still running 4 o2 sensors? I'm 99% sure the rear o2 sensors are shut off in the Trilogy tune, so I was planning on either removing the sensors completely or running MIL eliminators on the them, and not adding the o2 bungs after the cats. Did you require extenders for the front 2 sensors?

I am not a mechanic nor as Knowledgable as Brian or Dave. My thought would be keep the secondary o2 sensors should your state inspection require in the future you will already have them in place. I think the MIL eliminators are of no help because the o2s are placed after the oem secondary cats. You may need o2 wire extentions.The Trilogy tune may or may not shut off the 2nd set of o2s. If they did under the new emissions at inspection time a non support would appear. Subseqently fail inspection.
Headers bolt those babies on there not doing you any good sitting in the closet.
As for the EGR I would go without for now to much work. Save the work until needed turn off EGR in tune. The EGR is a good thing and of benfit see :
Decoding EGR Strategies - - Search Auto Parts | Automotive News (http://www.search-autoparts.com/searchautoparts/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=101041)

[ImpalaSlayer]

i too would have probably kept it if it would fit.

[burt ragio]

Dave didn't this guy figure out how to keep his EGR ?

[ImpalaSlayer]

Dave didn't this guy figure out how to keep his EGR ?


yeah but he dosent have an eaton yet.

[DTUB]

yeah but he dosent have an eaton yet.Yes I do and I'm going to leave the EGR on my other intake.

[ImpalaSlayer]

Yes I do and I'm going to leave the EGR on my other intake.

ooooo shiney

i ment installed, sorry

[burt ragio]

I will need to find a way to install the EGR on my near future eaton conversion. The Massachusetts inspection laws are almost as bad as Arnolds state. How we going to do this ?

[ImpalaSlayer]

I will need to find a way to install the EGR on my eaton conversion. The Massachusetts inspection laws are almost as bad as Arnolds state. How we going to do this ?


you will have to massage the wiper cowl. other then that, just make a custom tube and you should be good to go.

[DTUB]

I will need to find a way to install the EGR on my near future eaton conversion. The Massachusetts inspection laws are almost as bad as Arnolds state. How we going to do this ?The valve just bolts to the back of the blower along with a couple of vac. lines thats the easy part. The pipe coming off your headers might be a challange.

[burt ragio]

Soft copper pipe ?

[DTUB]

Soft copper pipe ?I used flexable stainless steel gas dryer hose and covered it with the stock pipe sheilding and it worked great.

[FordNut]

Should be able to use a Cobra EGR tube, just plug the two hose fittings for the Cobra sensor.

[FordNut]

As for the EGR I would go without for now to much work. Save the work until needed turn off EGR in tune. The EGR is a good thing and of benfit see :
Decoding EGR Strategies - - Search Auto Parts | Automotive News (http://www.search-autoparts.com/searchautoparts/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=101041)

Pretty informative article.

Just a FYI, the Cobra (and Mustang, F150, CV, etc.) use the separate DPFE sensor shown in the article, but the Marauder has the sensor built into the EGR valve somehow.

The Marauder EGR valve also has the MAP (or BARO) sensor built into it. The Cobra has it built into the IAT (IAT2) sensor.

So there are a few options on how to setup the Cobra blower and manifold on a Marauder. Both with and without the EGR. Mine has the Cobra IAT and MAP sensor connected to the Marauder harness but no EGR valve or sensor. Trilogy-style uses the Marauder EGR valve/EGR sensor/MAP (BARO) sensor. Zack & Dave have no EGR valve, EGR sensor or MAP sensor.

[Sully008]

Hello all,

Thanks for the informative replies and discussions. It almost made me change my mind about removing the EGR system. But...thankfully in my city/province there aren't any emissions testing, nor do I see any in the near future (as long as I'm around anyways). So, the EGR is going when I put the headers in. I will keep all the parts of course so if something does change in the next 50 years, I'll be ready. :D

[Big Black Beast]

All EGR does is feed some of the exhaust gas back into the engine so that it gets re-burnt, hence reducing the amount of unburnt fuel going out the tailpipe.
You probably won't be able to pass emissions without it, but since you don't have to, then it shouldn't matter.

[Marauderjack]

I'd be more concerned about combustion temps "RISING DRAMATICALLY"!!!:eek:


Combustion chamber temperatures
EGR reduces NOX formation by reducing combustion temperatures. The exhaust gases that are recirculated slow the combustion process and reduce peak temperatures. Modern engines that use EGR systems are designed to perform very well with the slower combustion that EGR causes.

When the EGR system on one of these engines is disabled, combustion chamber temperatures can rise dramatically and actually melt components. The advanced computer-controlled systems on newer cars prevent this from happening, but it still occurs on many older cars.

[Local Boy]

I agree with Marauderjack^^^...besides the fuel smell, it helps with MPG's...

If it's a DD, you might want to put a little more time into it to keep it functioning...

Your call...

Aloha

[Weaver]

Thanks, MarauderJack. Informative on the benefits of having the EGR. What would be the benefits of a delete?

Also, I did a search for it, didn't find an post on how to do a delete. Anyone know of such a post?

[musclemerc]

Not to highjack but I put this out there a little while ago and I still have them. If your doing a EGR delete here's a header block off: http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61460&highligh

[bawazir]

Just wondering if you remove or add EGR? Do you have to get the car dyno tuned, I know for fact you have to change the tuner? but what about the dyno tuned, do you to get re dyno again ?

[musclemerc]

No you don't have to dyno it but you will have to tell it not to monitor it within your existing tune

[SpartaPerformance]

NO! Don't delete

[justbob]

No you don't have to dyno it but you will have to tell it not to monitor it within your existing tune
Actually he wants to add an EGR, but it is currently off in the tune.

[musclemerc]

Hmmm. For the eaton that would have to be custom. I could probably make him a relocated EGR set up.

[bawazir]

Hmmm. For the eaton that would have to be custom. I could probably make him a relocated EGR set up.

Can i use my stock EGR or it has to me from mustang cobra egr?
thanks

[musclemerc]

IDK Abdull, I have'nt seen both to make a comparison. Let me do some research and get back to you. Does anyone have a pic or the Eaton EGR?

[bawazir]

IDK Abdull, I have'nt seen both to make a comparison. Let me do some research and get back to you. Does anyone have a pic or the Eaton EGR?

Thanks ,

[justbob]

I am trying to help him myself, this shouldn't be that difficult. It's just the guy can't drive the car for more than an hour without red eyes, headaches, and dizziness. This should not be happening, and I hope to come up with something. I allready hooked up the PCV system, and that alone got him from 10 minutes of driving to an hour. I am about out of ideas here, but something needs to be done...

[FordNut]

It's a little difficult to add EGR to an Eaton conversion. Custom tube, modified cowl/wiper motor mount to clear EGR valve.

I wanted to keep EGR intact on my car but because of those issues I deleted it.

I have no issues with performance or fumes. But I have a fully functional PCV system (another subject).

[justbob]

His PCV is now hooked up since last week. No more fumes, just Co knocking him out.

[bawazir]

Guys i was reading wikipedia about EGR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation

and it say " EGR reduces the amount of NOx the combustion generates. NOx forms primarily when a mixture of nitrogen and oxygen is subjected to high temperature."

I am thinking what i am smelling is NOX?
do you guys know if NOX is toxic?

[musclemerc]

It's a little difficult to add EGR to an Eaton conversion. Custom tube, modified cowl/wiper motor mount to clear EGR valve.

I wanted to keep EGR intact on my car but because of those issues I deleted it.

I have no issues with performance or fumes. But I have a fully functional PCV system (another subject).

What are you thoughts on a custom set up? I'm thinking moving the EGR so the cowl is'nt an issue and putting it on the DS firewall between the cam cover and the master cylinder. Then you only have a tube going to the blower that bolts onto the stock location. I can make the SS tubing and all the parts.

[FordNut]

Here's what you'll need to do:
1. Use the MM EGR valve. The Cobra one is totally different and you will have to adapt to the standalone DPFE (or something like that) sensor to make it work. The MM has the valve and sensor built in together.
2. Customize a Cobra EGR tube. The hookups for the sensor will need to be plugged. The connection for the exhaust manifold/header hookup will need some sort of adapter.
3. Modify the cowl to clear the EGR valve. It may be necessary to also modify the arm that connects from the wiper motor to the wiper.
4. Connect the electrical cable and vacuum lines to the EGR valve.
5. Modify the tune to add the EGR function back in.

[FordNut]

His PCV is now hooked up since last week. No more fumes, just Co knocking him out.

It's something else besides the EGR causing it. I've been running for a few years without EGR and have no issues with fumes.

[FordNut]

What are you thoughts on a custom set up? I'm thinking moving the EGR so the cowl is'nt an issue and putting it on the DS firewall between the cam cover and the master cylinder. Then you only have a tube going to the blower that bolts onto the stock location. I can make the SS tubing and all the parts.

A lot of work. Need an engine on a stand, with an Eaton conversion mounted.

[musclemerc]

If there's anyone close to Mississippi that has or is going to do an Eaton swap and is willing to come to my house for a weekend I will make a relocated EGR set up for free.

[bawazir]

:(
It's something else besides the EGR causing it. I've been running for a few years without EGR and have no issues with fumes.

Do you think it might the catalytic converters?
I took it to the muffler shop they said its fine, my car only has about 40000 miles. I don;'t get it, but this is driving me crazy and dizzy, :(

[justbob]

If there's anyone close to Mississippi that has or is going to do an Eaton swap and is willing to come to my house for a weekend I will make a relocated EGR set up for free.

Thats one hell of a nice gesture Travis! As allways with you.

[FordNut]

:(

Do you think it might the catalytic converters?
I took it to the muffler shop they said its fine, my car only has about 40000 miles. I don;'t get it, but this is driving me crazy and dizzy, :(


Very doubtful it's cats. Leaking fitting at the EGR tube cap/plug on the exhaust manifold?

Any new holes in the rear of the car which could let air backflow and come in from the exhaust? I used to have a Bronco, got custom duals installed that came out the rear underneath the bumper and exhaust fumes always came in the rear window. Had it changed so the pipes turned out behind the rear wheels and the problem was gone. Probably could have fixed it with new weatherstrip on the rear window instead...

[bawazir]

Very doubtful it's cats. Leaking fitting at the EGR tube cap/plug on the exhaust manifold?

Any new holes in the rear of the car which could let air backflow and come in from the exhaust? I used to have a Bronco, got custom duals installed that came out the rear underneath the bumper and exhaust fumes always came in the rear window. Had it changed so the pipes turned out behind the rear wheels and the problem was gone. Probably could have fixed it with new weatherstrip on the rear window instead...

Took my car to the muffler shop they checked it good, and i myself check it, No Holes in the Middle, rear, Me and Bob even check if the firewall has holes, nothing,
Been doing lots of research am freaking lost on this one, at first i thought it was me, but than i took my friend for an hour ride and he felt funny it is orderless, I even bought a home smoke co2 detector , no luck, :shake:

[FordNut]

I'm running out of ideas...

Did you re-connect the PCV system totally? As I recall the portion underneath the intake manifold had been plugged off during the initial installation. Personally I see no reason it wouldn't work correctly connected to just the top half at the plenum. But that would be a smell instead of odorless? Get a CO detector, they ought to have one at Home Depot for home use to ensure natural gas appliances are working right. That might at least tell you what it is and if it is building up to toxic levels.

[bawazir]

I'm running out of ideas...

Did you re-connect the PCV system totally? As I recall the portion underneath the intake manifold had been plugged off during the initial installation. Personally I see no reason it wouldn't work correctly connected to just the top half at the plenum. But that would be a smell instead of odorless? Get a CO detector, they ought to have one at Home Depot for home use to ensure natural gas appliances are working right. That might at least tell you what it is and if it is building up to toxic levels.

Thanks i will look into it

[FastMerc]

Mine was blocked off when the headers went in and I have no problems with smell or engine heat! Mine is still on the intake.I painted it black and it still looks functional.