Full Size Spare?

[Macon Marauder]

Guys: Check out this MM on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1872531204

Is it just me, or is that a full size spare? And is that a real MM rim in the trunk? Do you suppose the orig owner bought an extra wheel?

Just wondering. A guy I know with a Crown Vic has a full size spare. My MM (purchased last Saturday!) has the space saver version.

[TAF]

Mine has a full size spare with a "replica" of the wheel/full size, "unchromed"...

Sounds like you had an "adjustment"...

[03 Merc]

Hey Macon,

Welcome to the group. As far as your spare the Marauder comes with a full sized spare. It is actually a unpolished rim with a front tire on it. If you have a mini somebody really screwed up...

On an another note some of us in Atlanta get together monthly and would be glad to have you join in both our group and the Atlanta SVTOA chapter.. let me know if your interested and I'll send you details..

[Macon Marauder]

This certainly calls for more research on my part. I think my salesman has some 'splainin to do!

And Wayne,

Please send the info you mentioned. We don't get up to ATL much (what with small children and all) but who knows...

[mtnh]

The next version of Maruader is going to use a space-saver spare. It's not a screw-up. That means that you may have traction control/abs capabilities. As I understand it, that space-saver spare is part of the roll-out of traction control. And who knows, it may actually be removable from its nest for use!

Mike

[Macon Marauder]

Hmm. Yes, I see in the ordering doc (that someone linked to earlier) that the MM comes with a "Mini-Spare." This document is dated 10/16/02. Maybe it's just a running change that Mercury made during production.

I don't think I like it. Although, it is hard to imagine a full sized P235/50R18 wheel and tire mounted in that little space.

I'll have to check on the traction control. If it is installed then I should have a cut-off switch somewhere if it's anything like other Ford products I'm familiar with.

I thought all MMs had ABS?

[Brian]

Marauders produced after October 07, 2002 come with Traction Control standard and a temporary "mini-spare" standard. Marauders equipped with Traction Control have an on/off button on the left side IP applique, next to the adjustable pedal switch.

Marauders produced prior to that date were not available with Traction Control, and has a spare tire that was an unpolished road wheel with a front tire mounted.

Both the brake control hardware and software differ between the ABS-only vehicles and the ABS/TC vehicles.

Note that the Traction Control software is "tuned" to detect when a spare tire is attached to the rear end, and that tuning takes into account the lower total tractive force of the mini-spare tire patch when intervening with a traction control event with spare tire mounted in the rear. In other words, the Traction Control software is specifically tuned with for the mini-spare assembly, not the front tire size spare assembly.

[TAF]

So basically...by waiting 4 months...some of us could have not only saved $5k (luckily, it's not that much for me) AND could have received TC...but, got a mini-spare...

"The early bird..."

[LincMercLover]

I don't really see the big deal on removing the spare. Did you all read the directions? You're supposed to reach UNDER the rim, not over... From under the rim you can grab the thing that holds it down and turn it untill it comes free. Only compliant I have, is do they think they coulda maybe made the threads a WEE BIT THICKER so it unscrews a lil faster...

And regaurding the rim used for the spare, I'd actually like to get three more and use those for winter rims. Eash to clean the winter road grime, no polishing, etc...

As for TC, all I gotta say is, what for?!?! On top of hitting a button to take OD off, now you gotta hit ANOTHER button to take TC off. That would cut WAY too much into my "play time!" :D

[Fourth Horseman]

I may be singing a different tune come first real snow storm, but personally I'm glad I don't have TC on my sled. Our winters out here aren't all that bad and I got by just fine with my '97 TBird V8 Sport, and it didn't have TC either.

Now, saving $5k on the sticker price...? That I could have lived with. :D

[grzellmer]

Fourth

I paid a flat $29K for mine. Merc dealers are hungry!

[Fourth Horseman]

Originally posted by grzellmer
I paid a flat $29K for mine. Merc dealers are hungry!

You really know how to hurt a guy. :D In truth, I knew what I was doing. I knew that by not waiting I was going to pay way too much, but I decided to go for it anyway. Probably kind of stupid, but I don't really regret it.

[chapel1]

Sounds like that full size spare may make it easier to distinguse early MM's from later 03 MM's?

[MAD-3R]

Yeah, and the button on the dash for the traction control.:)

[RCSignals]

The newer production cars still have a trac-loc rear. i know Traction control also affects some engine function, like fuel delivery, lowers torque, but really, what is the advantage of it since the car already has limited slip?

[grzellmer]

Sorry Fourth, wasn't trying to rub it in.

Just wanted to let others know some good deals
are out there now that won't be come spring.

Z

[Macon Marauder]

Well, I have the mini spare, but no traction control (not that I need or want it). I guess mine came down the line just in time to get the little wheel but before the TC.

That's OK.

grzellmer: Down here, L/M dealer wasn't hungry enough, but the F-L/M dealer was. It (almost) always pays to shop around.

[tetsu]

Originally posted by RCSignals
The newer production cars still have a trac-loc rear. i know Traction control also affects some engine function, like fuel delivery, lowers torque, but really, what is the advantage of it since the car already has limited slip?

Trac-lock IS the limited slip differential.

Not to be confused with "Traction Control" which pulses the brakes to stop slippage kindve like reverse ABS.

Johnny

[RCSignals]

Yes, I understand what each does, just not the rerquirement or advantage of each on the same car

[Murader03]

I don't think you'll have the Trac-lock differential with the Traction-Control. They are two different set ups. I'd much rather have the Trac-loc. With the Traction-Controil on, which it is unless you turn it off, the system will cause you to loose power if the rear wheels spin too much. The system works if your spinning needlessly, like snow, or wet roads, but if you really want to hammer it, and they start spinning, the engine will bog down as the system cuts fuel. It's not good if your trying to show off the performance.

[03 Merc]

Murader03 is definitely correct on the "show off for performance" one...on my 01 Cobra the first thing I did was turn OFF the Traction Control as I left the driveway... To make it worse the default is ON and you have to turn it OFF every time you start the car... If Ford is going to put TC on a performance vehicle the default should be OFF IMHO...

BTW if a MM has the mini spare, but not TC, like Macon's car isn't this going to be a issue if you put the spare on the rear? The TC computer isn't installed to sense it..and that (installing TC) was probably the justification for going to minispares.. This change probably help cut a $100 bucks or more a unit off production costs by going to the mini and standardizing the line by eliminating non TC trim parts and computers...plus that expensive wheel...

[Smokie]

grzellmer, Does that price include C/D changer and trunk organizer? How many miles on odometer at time of purchase?

[Brian]

The MM equipped with Electronic Traction Control still does get the locking differential rear axle.

The revs per mile of the mini-spare is very very close to the revs per mile of the front tire. Just the tractive capability is less because it is so much skinnier, different compound, higher pressure, etc.

[mtnh]

Does anyone have a description of what the traction control will actually do? I know that in these years of the new millenium, cars with traction control are sporting such features as yaw control, etc., using such vehicle information as speed, steering angle, steering angle rate, inertial vehicle direction, etc., and the guys driving the Lincoln LS in snow with that car's traction control system claim that they can't much get past the beginning of a slide before the system corrects the error condition and restores proper track. If the MM does not give up the limited slip diff, then obviously, this system is somewhat more advanced than the predecessor traction control systems built into the panther platforms in the past. Got a moment to comment on this Brian? Anyone else?

Mike, who would trade that large spare for this system any day.

[grzellmer]

Smokie

Need to clarify price. The first car I wanted had the 6 CD changer but did not have the trunk organizer. That one was $29K but when they washed it up, it was full of scratches. Maybe thats why they were willing to let it go at 29? If so, this was a mistake on their part as a I asked for, and got, a different car. The second car had the organizer, so I kicked in the extra $200. I also added locking lug nuts for $50. So out the door it was $29,250.

Z

[grzellmer]

Smokie

Odometer was at 10 miles

[LincMercLover]

I still don't like the fact a comuter is correction my errors (right or wrong) while driving the car. In my expirences with driving, correction is second nature to me, I don't need a computer to TRY to help me out. If I got a car with TC, I'm sorry but I'd find all it components and rip 'em out. No TC for me, one reason why I bought earlier.

[Smokie]

grzellmer

Thanks for prompt response, when I use the phrase "out the door" to me it means total purchase cost (tax, title, tag, dealer prep if any) Did you mean the same ? :)


P.S. Either way, the deal you got IMHO is fantastic. Congrats.

[grzellmer]

$29,250 was car price including dealer prep.

Add tax, title & license on top of that.

[RCSignals]

mtnh

From the way I read it, the traction control works the same, and doesn't include any yaw control. It works witht he ABS system to apply the brakes to slipping wheels, and also works with the PCM to reduce torque, adjust A/F etc.

[RCSignals]

I was told the Mini spare now being used has an 18" spun aluminum rim

[Brian]

RC is right. Marauder TC is a brake/spark/fuel system that doesn't have yaw sensors and steering rate input.

It is clever enough to know if you are on gravel, for instance, and the tires are spinning, but the car is accelerating anyway, then you typically don't get intervention. If you are on wet ice or polished snow, on the other hand, with the rear wheels spinning and the car NOT accelerating very well, then you get intervention.

Note that with the locking differential, you don't get nearly as much one-wheel brake intervention as you would with an open differential. I have done WOT from a standstill with one wheel on the road (dry pavement), and the other wheel either on the gravel or on grass. In either case, I got just a bit of intervention as the engine got into the torque band around 3000rpm in first gear. The locking diff took care of most of the split coefficient of friction for me.

In another trial, I have on several occasions done a WOT coming off a gravel road making a right turn on to a paved road. There was a bunch of loose gravel on the paved road, making for a ball-bearing effect. Without the TC, I would have swapped ends VERY quickly. With the TC, as the rear end broke loose and the rear tires started going a lot faster than the front, I got engine intervention. The rear end grabbed, and the engine gradually built up torque as I accelerated away. I don't necessarily recommend trying this "at home", unless you have a lot of runnout space on the corner (or unless you have a real good discount plan at your local body shop).