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DOOM
02-06-2010, 04:26 PM
About to put these on.
4# cobra crank pulluy & adaptor.
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=92&pictureid=621
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=92&pictureid=622
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=92&pictureid=623

As well as a 2.8 blower pulley.

Here hemi hemi.

ImpalaSlayer
02-06-2010, 04:27 PM
hello high IATs

RR|Suki
02-06-2010, 04:29 PM
That's a lot of work, just put a Hemi in it ;)

DOOM
02-06-2010, 04:30 PM
Here is the blower pulley (blinged out of course!) :coolman:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=92&pictureid=624

DOOM
02-06-2010, 04:31 PM
hello high IATs

I have a rear engine cooling kit & 180 degree t stat.
There a few guys running 6# crank pullies and as far as i know dont have any issues. But i could be wrong.
Hopefully they will chime in.

DOOM
02-06-2010, 04:33 PM
Big thanks go's out to O's fan rich for having these adaptors made. :beer:
You trilogy guys should look into this.

ImpalaSlayer
02-06-2010, 04:39 PM
I have a rear engine cooling kit.

hmm 2.8 with a +4 on a 8.5 comp motor your going to be spinnign the crap outa that little eaton. shes gona be HOT

oh and the rear cooling kit will not affect IATs in any way

not trying to rain on your parade just saying. you probably want to use a bigger more efficient heat exchanger then the stock cobra one.

MM_BKK
02-06-2010, 05:25 PM
Wow, what rpm will that compressor be spinning when you're taching 6k?

Hopefully you won't be maxing out the blower's limits or have belt slippage issue. Have fun with your added boost. I know, it's very addicting.

NATEHAWK
02-06-2010, 05:28 PM
Impyslayer makes a good point.

NATEHAWK
02-06-2010, 05:35 PM
But if you not spinning it up high for long periods of time you should be good.

DOOM
02-06-2010, 05:52 PM
My car is more street than strip.
Thanks for all the feedback this is what I'm looking for.
I don't want to tear anything up.

ImpalaSlayer
02-06-2010, 05:56 PM
Doomie, hopefully Fordnut will pop in and give his input. you can get a bigger heat exchanger from frozenboost.com for pretty cheap. i imagine this will help but not be a cure all.

-Matt-
02-06-2010, 06:23 PM
why cant i ever see your pictures? Who are you hosting your pictures through?

ImpalaSlayer
02-06-2010, 06:25 PM
why cant i ever see your pictures? Who are you hosting your pictures through?

lol looks like mm.net

DOOM
02-06-2010, 06:25 PM
why cant i ever see your pictures? Who are you hosting your pictures through?

Your computer sucks! :toss:
:lol:

-Matt-
02-06-2010, 06:26 PM
why cant i see MM hosted pictures?

DOOM
02-06-2010, 07:32 PM
Looks like I'm just going to go with the 2.8 blower pulley.
Thanks for the feed back guys. :beer:

Let the hemi hunting commence. :cowboy:

RR|Suki
02-06-2010, 08:08 PM
why not run the upper pulley you have now and the bigger lower pulley, then you'll have less chance for belt slip :D

DOOM
02-06-2010, 08:17 PM
All this stuff is confusing to me! :confused:
All i want is 460RWTQ & HP with my new motor.
I dont care which pulley combination is used to get there! :burn:

bob6364
02-06-2010, 08:18 PM
Doomie the engine i putting together will have a stock pulley and 4# lower......

bob6364
02-06-2010, 08:20 PM
I called my tuner before I decided....

RR|Suki
02-06-2010, 08:35 PM
All this stuff is confusing to me! :confused:
All i want is 460RWTQ & HP with my new motor.
I dont care which pulley combination is used to get there! :burn:

460 seems like it shouldn't be very hard to get to at all. What do you make now?

DOOM
02-06-2010, 08:51 PM
460 seems like it shouldn't be very hard to get to at all. What do you make now?

On my stock motor i was making 463RWTQ & 457RWHP with a 3.0 pulley & headers.
It made 473RWHP on the dyno but i had them cut it back.

Now i have this terminator short block & i also ported the blower.

Compression is eight and a half to one now as opposed to the ten to one compression on the stock block.

ImpalaSlayer
02-06-2010, 08:53 PM
On my stock motor i was making 463RWTQ & 457RWHP with a 3.0 pulley & headers.
It made 473RWHP on the dyno but i had them cut it back.

Now i have this terminator short block & i also ported the blower.

Compression is eight and a half to one now as opposed to the ten to one compression on the stock block.

what the stronger bottem end is going to let you do is run more timing as well as boost. suki brings up a good point, belt slip. id do what he said and go with the lower over the upper.

CRUZTAKER
02-06-2010, 09:00 PM
hello high IATs

That and new injectors and days of tuning, belt shredding, poor tentioners, pita alignments, inadequate blowoff valves, and god hope the fuel delivery is good along with voltage ....

Yeah...been there.

I killed Hemis NA...WHY THE F did I sink a wad in a blower....:stupid:

ImpalaSlayer
02-06-2010, 09:02 PM
That and new injectors and days of tuning and god hope the fuel delivery is good along with voltage ....

Yeah...been there.


doomie has a gt pump with a BAP, hes good to go. if he is shooting for the same hp i dont think he will need 60s

DOOM
02-06-2010, 09:08 PM
Already got 60# iniectors. :D
Been had the GT-40 pump and bap too!

DOOM
02-06-2010, 09:10 PM
Blow off valves??? Must be a centri thing. :D

RR|Suki
02-06-2010, 09:14 PM
doomie has a gt pump with a BAP, hes good to go. if he is shooting for the same hp i dont think he will need 60s

I make well over 500 on my 42s and as I understand it centri blowers put a bigger strain on the fuel system.

As for upper or lower, how much psi does the 2.8 give over the 3.0? the 4lb lower might give you more kick with less chance of slip :confused:
Then again, is belt slip even a problem with the 2.8, how much more psi do you even really need?
I say put that boy on the dyno :D

merc
02-06-2010, 09:15 PM
Fact: I ran the 1/4 mile in September and logged IAT2 temps. Temps were 140 at the 1000 ft mark and peaking above 160 before at the end. According to Eaton the blower was designed for 13 pounds of boost max. The M-122 adds 3 pounds and more internal volume. Heat can kill performance and internal parts. There are many ways to cool the intercooler fluid.

Doom with the combination, 2.8 upper and 4# lower, you will not get traction out of a dig from any tire you use. VHT will be your friend but you will not get that advantage on the street.

DOOM
02-06-2010, 09:16 PM
That and new injectors and days of tuning, belt shredding, poor tentioners, pita alignments, inadequate blowoff valves, and god hope the fuel delivery is good along with voltage ....

Yeah...been there.

I killed Hemis NA...WHY THE F did I sink a wad in a blower....:stupid:

Barry i already have 60# iniectors GT-40 pump and BAP.
I believe fuel delivery is covered.
Now i have the terminator.
Im not sure what alignments youre referring to or blow off valves.
I can see where the tensioner could be an issue though.

ImpalaSlayer
02-06-2010, 09:16 PM
I make well over 500 on my 42s and as I understand it centri blowers put a bigger strain on the fuel system.

As for upper or lower, how much psi does the 2.8 give over the 3.0? the 4lb lower might give you more kick with less chance of slip :confused:
Then again, is belt slip even a problem with the 2.8, how much more psi do you even really need?
I say put that boy on the dyno :D


suki how much boost is he loosing with the lower comp motor? Dommie said hes at about 13.5 with his stock motor

DOOM
02-06-2010, 09:22 PM
Fact: I ran the 1/4 mile in September and logged IAT2 temps. Temps were 140 at the 1000 ft mark and peaking above 160 before at the end. According to Eaton the blower was designed for 13 pounds of boost max. The M-122 adds 3 pounds and more internal volume. Heat can kill performance and internal parts. There are many ways to cool the intercooler fluid.

Doom with the combination, 2.8 upper and 4# lower, you will not get traction out of a dig from any tire you use. VHT will be your friend but you will not get that advantage on the street.

First of all thanks for the reply. :beer:
How about the 3.0 upper & 4# lower.
Or just the 2.8 upper?
Keep in mind my car is a STREET car.

CRUZTAKER
02-06-2010, 09:24 PM
Barry i already have 60# iniectors GT-40 pump and BAP.
I believe fuel delivery is covered.
Now i have the terminator.
Im not sure what alignments youre referring to or blow off valves.
I can see where the tensioner could be an issue though.

Crank it up to 18lbs of boost and you'll understand.
We couldn't align the pullys well enough at the boost and she shreds belts.
The blowoff vavle on my setup was inadequate and causing all kinds of grief.

DOOM
02-06-2010, 09:24 PM
suki how much boost is he loosing with the lower comp motor? Dommie said hes at about 13.5 with his stock motor

13#'s of boost on the stock motor with the 3.0 pulley.

DOOM
02-06-2010, 09:26 PM
Crank it up to 18lbs of boost and you'll understand.
We couldn't align the pullys well enough at the boost and she shreds belts.
The blowoff vavle on my setup was inadequate and causing all kinds of grief.

Wasnt planning on running 18#'s! :lol:

RR|Suki
02-06-2010, 09:27 PM
suki how much boost is he loosing with the lower comp motor? Dommie said hes at about 13.5 with his stock motor

Not sure at all honestly, your guess is as good as mine on that one man :lol:

Big Black Beast
02-06-2010, 09:31 PM
How much more Awesome do you need to be?
There is a limit, you know.:rolleyes:

RR|Suki
02-06-2010, 09:34 PM
Crank it up to 18lbs of boost and you'll understand.
We couldn't align the pullys well enough at the boost and she shreds belts.
The blowoff vavle on my setup was inadequate and causing all kinds of grief.

Stories like that make me love my Novi (and the bigger motor)
500+ @ 9psi ftw :P

merc
02-06-2010, 09:42 PM
First of all thanks for the reply. :beer:
How about the 3.0 upper & 4# lower.
Or just the 2.8 upper?
Keep in mind my car is a STREET car.

I ran a 3.0 on the street for a short period of time. It worked fine. Keep in mind your knock sensors are worthless. The cobra has a dual IAT system. The Marauder/Terminator only has a IAT2 located in the intake. Your tuner has the ability to scale back the timing depending on temps. In a race tune using race gas you might scale timing slightly at a given temp. If you are on the street tune I would start backing out timing at 140 or below. Air on the side of safety unless you have the cash to replace your motor again. Having a strong bottom end does not guarantee immunity from failure. As a community were are starting to see the long term effects of modifications.

FordNut
02-07-2010, 09:29 AM
OK, let me start all over... I typed this up once already and it crashed just as I hit the Post Reply button.

I can't see the pictures, apparently they're too big and it brings my computer to its knees when they try to download. Yep, I use dialup...

I would start out with the 4 lb lower and see how it works out. Then if you want more, add the upper pulley. Using the special adapter that Rich came up with should keep the belt aligned ok. If it's a choice of either the bigger crank pulley or smaller blower pulley, bigger is better so you have more surface area, more friction, less belt slip. I'm running 16-18 psi with 9.5:1 CR which is just about the limit for pump gas. With the Cobra's 8.5:1 CR you may be able to go to 20 psi with a good tune.

The Cobra block will hold together at higher power levels because of the pistons & rods. They will also withstand some minor detonation instead of shattering. You can run higher boost and get up to those higher power levels because the compression ratio is lower, leading to lower cylinder pressures (for a given boost level) and less chance for detonation. If the heads, cams, intake, blower, and exhaust are the same as the Marauder engine, the boost should be pretty much the same since boost is a measure of flow restriction.

The Eaton does make a lot of heat, the best way to deal with that is a bigger heat exchanger. There are a couple of manufacturers that make upgraded heat exchangers that should fit. The Trilogy uses a Cobra heat exchanger so an upgraded Cobra one should fit in the same place using the same brackets. Mine is actually an upgraded one for a Lightning, but it requires customizing of the fittings as well as custom brackets to mount it. Mine is from LFP, but Afco also makes a good one.

As for comments about knock sensors not working, mine works just fine. It's all in the tune.

Glenn
02-07-2010, 09:50 AM
Not a real strong supporter of 2.8s. As Dave and Mark mentioned, IAT heat is a big issue and greatly affects your boost effeciency and HP. I would rather increase timing alittle with a 3.0 then go with a 2.8 and the issue of greater boost air heat - it is just diminishing returns affect. Studies indicate that higher boost and higher IAT heat do not mean more overall HP.

Also, interesting to see how a 8.5:1 blower motor compares to a MM 10:1 blower motor. The increased compression is worth at least 20-30 HP on a SC engine.

Glenn Ford

NATEHAWK
02-07-2010, 10:22 AM
I'm going to get my car dyno tuned here shortly as you all might know or may not know I purchased Rich's Marauder. So you know the story behind his car Aluminator long block 10:1, Eaton, intake and throttle body ported...3.0 upper pulley with the 4lb lower crank pulley. Fuel system is all upgraded etc....So I will see what it pulls on the dyno and if i want to go back to the 3.4 upper I still have that option. But I dont think it will be a problem. I wont be going higher than the 3.0 upper thats on there now PERIOD.

Glenn
02-07-2010, 10:36 AM
You bought Rick's car - WOW!!! Good luck with it. So you're still trying to make Page #1 in 2010 - remember spot #20 is NOT available.:banana2:

Glenn Ford :burnout:

NATEHAWK
02-07-2010, 10:43 AM
I will surpass you soon Glenn my friend but not rushing to do so...

RR|Suki
02-07-2010, 10:46 AM
Congrats on the purchase, did you sell your other one?

NATEHAWK
02-07-2010, 10:47 AM
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/images/product/pre_intercooler_pipe_picture.j pg


Check this out sounds like snake oil but the theory behind it is sound.

http://www.frozenboost.com/stpg.php?page_id=pre_intercool er_cooling_pipe&osCsid=b193614c73429064081cc1f d7a06a532

NATEHAWK
02-07-2010, 10:48 AM
Congrats on the purchase, did you sell your other one?

My other car is no longer with me I was in a accident. But I did get all my mods off and sold them all....

RR|Suki
02-07-2010, 10:55 AM
Check this out sounds like snake oil but the theory behind it is sound.

http://www.frozenboost.com/stpg.php?page_id=pre_intercool er_cooling_pipe&osCsid=b193614c73429064081cc1f d7a06a532

If that does work I dunno how it would help a roots car with the cooler under the blower, that's more something for centri/turbo cars.


My other car is no longer with me I was in a accident. But I did get all my mods off and sold them all....

ahhh, didn't know. Glad you got yourself a good replacement

Glenn
02-07-2010, 10:57 AM
Regarding the Frozen Boost - I belived the air is going too fast to bleed off any heat. Also, you would need a finned area to absorb the heat and that would slow down the air flow. Finally, the finned tube would need to be in a direct flow of air to really be effective and remove the heat. Go with a larger intercoooler is more effecitve.

Glenn Ford

NATEHAWK
02-07-2010, 11:02 AM
Regarding the Frozen Boost - I belived the air is going too fast to bleed off any heat. Also, you would need a finned area to absorb the heat and that would slow down the air flow. Finally, the finned tube would need to be in a direct flow of air to really be effective and remove the heat. Go with a larger intercoooler is more effecitve.

Glenn Ford


I thought so just was looking on there site...

jflave
02-07-2010, 03:25 PM
Way to go Nate,hell of a machine, good time racing should be fun.:beer:

FordNut
02-07-2010, 05:57 PM
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/images/product/pre_intercooler_pipe_picture.j pg


Check this out sounds like snake oil but the theory behind it is sound.

http://www.frozenboost.com/stpg.php?page_id=pre_intercool er_cooling_pipe&osCsid=b193614c73429064081cc1f d7a06a532

If you were running a centrifugal blower with no intercooler those heat sink tubes might be useful. Discharge air from a centrifugal can be well over 300 degrees. Engine compartment air is around 200. If you put it after an intercooler, then you would be putting 120-150 degree air through the heat sink tube. It's just going to make the air charge hotter since the engine compartment is 200 or so.

FordNut
02-07-2010, 06:04 PM
BTW, the primary benefit of a larger heat exchanger is that it has more surface area, therefore it can dissipate more heat. The secondary benefit is that it has more volume which delays the effects of heat soak. Heat soak will occur with any of them if you stay in boost long enough. With a drag racer, you're usually in boost for under 13 seconds. On the dyno it's even less, so you never see the effects of heat soak on the dyno. I'd like to see what the intercooler coolant temperature looks like in a road race...

RR|Suki
02-07-2010, 06:05 PM
If you were running a centrifugal blower with no intercooler those heat sink tubes might be useful. Discharge air from a centrifugal can be well over 300 degrees. Engine compartment air is around 200. If you put it after an intercooler, then you would be putting 120-150 degree air through the heat sink tube. It's just going to make the air charge hotter since the engine compartment is 200 or so.

Their idea with those is to put them on the pipe right before the intercooler to pull of some of the head before getting to the IC

FordNut
02-07-2010, 06:13 PM
Their idea with those is to put them on the pipe right before the intercooler to pull of some of the head before getting to the IC

I see. Might actually help slightly then.

Maybe some space constraints putting one on a Marauder though.