Weighing my engine options...

[69428SCJ]

Fellow Marauderers (Maraudeers?) I come to you for guidance. As I've posted many times before I plan on swapping the Stiege stage 5 ported Eaton from my Cobra to Marauder. I plan on upgrading the engine mainly because of internals issues (I say tick, some people say knock) mainly because I'm looking to make around 475hp/tq to the wheels. I'm considering these options:

1) Buying forged rods, dished pistons and keeping the stock block
2) 03-04 Cobra shortblock swap
3) Aluminator S/C shortblock

My questions are these:
Is #1 worth it on the stock block based on what I'm wanting to make?
Can I swap the heads from the stock engine onto the Cobra or Aluminator blocks without any problems?
Which is most cost effective? In other words, would I have to buy the Aluminator when I could get away with option 1 or 2? I've looked at the prices of just the parts and obviously my options are ranked from cheapest to most expensive.

I used the search function and I didn't really see anywhere there was a thread that compared the Cobra and Aluminator blocks so I figured this would be a nice way to compare and contrast the two...and my other option.

[juno]

The aluminator S/C block is basically a cobra LB with an aluminum block. Comes with the same compression and the Cobra front cover. If your happy with 8.5 compression, it will be fine.

[FordNut]

If you have time and a good builder, go with option #1. Have the heads checked out thoroughly too, that's where some say the tick comes from. I would do this one since I could pick my own compression ratio and go for somewhere between 9:1 or 9.5:1, the stock crank and block are plenty strong for your intended application. If you upgrade the crank you'll also have to get a different flexplate, which you'll need with the other 2 options too. If you upgrade the crank, might as well go with a stroker.

Cobra shortblock will be more expensive than it appears because you have to have a correct rebuildable Cobra core. It's also heavier than either of the other options.

Not sure, but I thought the Aluminator came in long block form. I also think the Aluminator SC comes with a different timing cover and oil pan than the MM uses so those would need to be swapped out.

[bob6364]

I agree the stock block is good to 600-700hp easy ...have it honed and get some good forged internals and go on your way.... the days of Needing 8.5 compression to help the tuners are gone.Get the compression to mid 9's and do more with less boost I say.

[Zack]

I wouldnt hesitate to run 475rwhp on the stock engine forever.
Fix the tick, add the blower, done.
Worry about it if it blows up.

[RR|Suki]

I agree the stock block is good to 600-700hp easy ...have it honed and get some good forged internals and go on your way.... the days of Needing 8.5 compression to help the tuners are gone.Get the compression to mid 9's and do more with less boost I say.

Stock block is good for more than that. People put holes in the block from detonation, not from too much power.

[bob6364]

Stock block is good for more than that. People put holes in the block from detonation, not from too much power.

Hey Suki...
Your the guy on the "Price is Right" that says 501 aren't you?
or maybe your the green mushroom.

[ImpalaSlayer]

I wouldnt hesitate to run 475rwhp on the stock engine forever.
Fix the tick, add the blower, done.
Worry about it if it blows up.

prolly cuz you have 47 other 4vs laying around! :lol:

[RR|Suki]

Hey Suki...
You're the guy on "The Price is Right" that says 501 aren't you?
Maybe you're the green mushroom.

Fixed for you :beer: Next time you're trying to be clever, read over your post before clicking the little submit button ;) :burnout: :beatnik:

*edit for more funny faces

[Phrog_gunner]

Fixed for you :beer: Next time you're trying to be clever, read over your post before clicking the little submit button ;) :burnout: :beatnik:

*edit for more funny faces

http://memegenerator.net/Thumbnails/208/208x228_Success-Kid-LEARN-GRAMMAR-WIN.jpg

[Vortech347]

#1,

03 shortblock would add weight. These cars are fat enough.

Aluminator's are great if you've got a ton of money sitting around.

For the cost of an aluminator you could do option #1, sell the eaton, and put a whipple on that thing!

[cougar9150]

Good to know, I was wondering this myself, looks like I'll be sticking w/the MM block when my time comes.

[Zack]

Good to know, I was wondering this myself, looks like I'll be sticking w/the MM block when my time comes.

FYI no one has ever broken an aluminum block from too much power, Teksid or not.
Yes they break when a rod goes through them

[cougar9150]

FYI no one has ever broken an aluminum block from too much power, Teksid or not.
Yes they break when a rod goes through them

Sweet, good to know. I figure I can also have my friend drop the block and rotating assembly in the cryo tank for a little extra insurance before I rebuild.

I want to turn the wrenches myself on my engine build so it will be much easier and cost effective if I can resuse the stock block and crank after machining.

[Zack]

Sweet, good to know. I figure I can also have my friend drop the block and rotating assembly in the cryo tank for a little extra insurance before I rebuild.

I want to turn the wrenches myself on my engine build so it will be much easier and cost effective if I can resuse the stock block and crank after machining.

Not necessary to cryo. Spend the money on beer. :beer:

[bob6364]

Fixed for you :beer: Next time you're trying to be clever, read over your post before clicking the little submit button ;) :burnout: :beatnik:

*edit for more funny faces

haha..wasn't trying to be clever...was being an ass...take your grammar nazism elsewhere.

[bob6364]

There is no such thing as a bullet proof engine asembley so don't get caught up in the hype buy good pistons,rings, rods and bearings get a used cobra crank or a new one if budget allows and have fun...these engines pop do to lean conditions 90% of the time and parts failure only the other 10%.

[RR|Suki]

haha..wasn't trying to be clever...was being an ass...take your grammar nazism elsewhere.

lol don't be mad just because you posted wrong information, then tried to be an ass because you can't take correction, then failed at that too.

Here, a gift for you
http://chicagoist.com/attachments/Lauri%20Apple/tissues.jpg

P.S. An ellipsis has 3 dots :-D

[bob6364]

you could not make me mad if you tryed .............................. ................... green mushroom.

[cougar9150]

Not necessary to cryo. Spend the money on beer. :beer:

I've been buying stuff off and on from the owner for few years and have hooked him up with my company for a couple good paying odd jobs. He will do it for a good price for the engine stuff and let me throw what ever else I can fit in. Works wonders on cheap tools and drill bits.

I'll want to have the heads torn down and cleaned up at the same time so I would probably throw all that stuff in also.

[bob6364]

I've been buying stuff off and on from the owner for few years and have hooked him up with my company for a couple good paying odd jobs. He will do it for a good price for the engine stuff and let me throw what ever else I can fit in. Works wonders on cheap tools and drill bits.

I'll want to have the heads torn down and cleaned up at the same time so I would probably throw all that stuff in also.

cougar since you know a person who does this stuff and seem to have first hand knowledge,what does it do to the cheap tools and drill bits...is it like case hardening,just curious.

[RacerX]

Like realigning the molecular structure... Can you cryo mushrooms?

Oh yeah, rebuild the lower end forged, head rebuild, throw a smaller pulley on ftw! 475+rwhp easy!

[bob6364]

Like realigning the molecular structure... Can you cryo mushrooms?

Yeah I remember reading something on Cryo treating metal...but this guy has the connection to play with it alittle unlike us who have to pay full retail....its like me and powder coating...you wouldn't send a piece of oak to a powder coater just for S and G's but I would cause it only costs me the price of the powder and some lectricity...

[cougar9150]

cougar since you know a person who does this stuff and seem to have first hand knowledge,what does it do to the cheap tools and drill bits...is it like case hardening,just curious.

Exactly like RacerX said- it realigns the crystalline structure of the metal, purifying it and basically increasing it's wear and fatigue resistance.

I took a a 3 pack set of cheap step drill bits from Harbor Freight that cost $15. After treating, the bits will last longer, will not go dull if run hot as quickly, than say the single $50 unibit you can get from Sears or Home Depot. Same with cheap wrenches, they will be less likely to snap or bend.

Another example is I put almost 110k on my cryo-treated Nissan Frontier rotors, they were still flat and over pre-cut thickness when I got rid of it.

[FordNut]

Sweet, good to know. I figure I can also have my friend drop the block and rotating assembly in the cryo tank for a little extra insurance before I rebuild.

I want to turn the wrenches myself on my engine build so it will be much easier and cost effective if I can resuse the stock block and crank after machining.

Double check with your cryo guy. The block is aluminum with steel (or iron?) sleeves, some cryo shops advise against it. And if you do have the block or rods cryo-treated have the block align bored afterward and have the rods checked afterward.

I had my stuff cryo-treated, but it isn't necessary. Even the super-high hp (1500 or so) guys don't do it.

[Glenn]

Fix the tick and run it until it blows. People do not remember that our lighter non-forged internals with 10:1 cr probably give us an added 20-30 HP. Forged internals are great, but rob HP. I have seen too many people rebuild their SC engines with forged internals and wind up with less HP.

(Plus, how would you like having two high $ forged SC engines rebuilt and they both blew soon after install - it has happened several times with owners.)

Glenn Ford :burnout:

[bob6364]

oh man that must have sucked...what blew on the forged engines? Ring gap to tight I bet?

[Glenn]

The tune! :bigcry:

[bob6364]

have Brooks speed look at it for you ;D

[69428SCJ]

wow guys, thanks for all the responses! So Glenn after reading what you said regarding the rods is it safe to say that the stock rods would be good for what I'm looking to do? The tick someone suggested to me might be wrist pin slap and according to the service records on the car, the shop that serviced it even suggested that the tick has occured due to overheating??? It's only on the driver's side bank and it doesn't sound like it's in the head. dohc324ci's heard it, he might be able to post up what it sounds like to him...

[ImpalaSlayer]

wow guys, thanks for all the responses! So Glenn after reading what you said regarding the rods is it safe to say that the stock rods would be good for what I'm looking to do? The tick someone suggested to me might be wrist pin slap and according to the service records on the car, the shop that serviced it even suggested that the tick has occured due to overheating??? It's only on the driver's side bank and it doesn't sound like it's in the head. dohc324ci's heard it, he might be able to post up what it sounds like to him...

the drivers side head in the 03s is notorious for loosing seats, and walking valve guides. one way to tell if it the updated head is it should have a blue stripe on it across the exhaust ports, atleast for the cobras.

[Glenn]

wow guys, thanks for all the responses! So Glenn after reading what you said regarding the rods is it safe to say that the stock rods would be good for what I'm looking to do? The tick someone suggested to me might be wrist pin slap and according to the service records on the car, the shop that serviced it even suggested that the tick has occured due to overheating??? It's only on the driver's side bank and it doesn't sound like it's in the head. dohc324ci's heard it, he might be able to post up what it sounds like to him...

Stock internals are normally only good for 450 HP. 475 HP is risking it, but many cars are running with stock internals over 450 HP and surviving. It is all in the tune. Get a good tune ======

Glenn

[ImpalaSlayer]

Stock internals are normally only good for 450 HP. 475 HP is risking it, but many cars are running with stock internals over 450 HP and surviving. It is all in the tune. Get a good tune ======

Glenn

tune AND some luck!

im scared with my safe tune and only 435hp, just knowing they are weak is the worst part!