Anti-lock brakes

[flescher]

Can anyone tell me where to put a switch that will enable me to disable the antilock brakes?
Thanks
H

[jgc61sr2002]

flescher - Why would you want to do that? ABS brakes are an excellent safety feature. They are great on all types of slippery road conditions.:confused:

[RF Overlord]

^^^what jgc said^^^

Did you mean traction control?

[flescher]

ABS is intended to let people stop with steering control. They don't let you stop as quickly as possible. I race sportscars, and have done tests of the same car with and without ABS. I can stop in a much shorter distancs without ABS. In other cars I have simply removed the ABS connector but it doesn't let my wife drive the car with ABS. The early Corvettes came with a switch for the same reasons. I'd like to have the benefits for both worlds, and I'm sure that someone knowledgible could tell me which elect. line I can put a switch in.

[jgc61sr2002]

You may be able to stop faster on dry pavement, what about wet or icy roadways? IMO the average driver has more control with ABS.

[flescher]

Absolutely you are right, the average driver has more control with ABS. That's why it is so popular. I'm only asking for me for my car.
As for braking in poor traction conditions, the scariest experience I remember in a car was the first time I tried to stop on ice with ABS. I had 4 studded tires on the car, and it just wouldn't stop. Just kept rolling slower and slower. Without ABS I could lock them up and get the studs to bite. That's when I removed the connector from the brake system in my 1992 Crown Vic. Never ran them again on that car.
Also, ABS prevents the use of brakes to break the car loose on entry into a corner
I pay attention when I drive and am well trained. ABS isn't the best solution for me. Ergo my question, which electrical line can I put a switch into to let me chose anti-locks or my skills.

[merc406]

Find a manual, happy braking to ya, ABS is a superior system for the road.

[cruzer]

Flescher, I agree with you---ABS definitely has it's use in a "locked brake" situation. The airlines have been using ABS since the mid 50's--but you always had an on-off switch. For most drivers, who are given little or no training in controlled braking, it will keep them from skidding 200 ft and hitting the only tree in the area. Under most driving conditions, it is a good safety factor, and you have to really know your car and brakes to do a better job yourself. I would like to have a cut-off switch , but don't feel it is mandatory for me--IMHO

[RCSignals]

I understand for "performance" driving, but for a car that is meant for everyday road driving, ABS really is the answer for sudden panic stops. Yes even the best trained drivers have times they "panic" stop.

I'm not sure if the current ABS systems can be defeated with just a switch. May be possible, but you'll need a manual to figure out what might do it.

[Mad1]

Judging from the posts, I realize most people here don't think disabling the ABS is wise. But no one has answered his question yet.

Someone with a shop manual or wiring diagram, you know who you are, please give him an answer.

I'd hate to think you guys would only give someone a helpful answer if you agreed with what they were planning to do.

Just my 2 cents, 'cause I don't think it's a good idea either. However, I've been known to disable "idiot" safety features myself from time to time. The first one to go is always the friggin' "door/key" chime or seatbelt warning. (I'm not someone who needs reminding for either, but I'm mature enough to know that some people out there "require" it.)

Jeremy
Mad1

[RF Overlord]

Jeremy:

I don't think it's that none of us WILL answer his question, it's just that none of us CAN...it's such an unusual request that I doubt many people here have that immediate knowledge...

[TripleTransAm]

I can look at the wiring diagrams tonight but as RF said, it's not a usual type of modification.

[mtnh]

Just add a switch to one of the wheel's abs wheel speed sensors. When the system sees no transitions from that wheel, the ABS fault light will light and ABS will be disabled. When the switch is closed (for normal, with ABS function) the fault will automatically clear. Just don't pick the ABS wheel speed sensor that drives the speedometer. I have the diagrams, can look it up, also. At home. (Thanks, flatratetech.com)

Mike

[RCSignals]

Even looking at the diagrams, I can't suggest where a switch could be placed, and what other systems might be effected

[Racerx88]

On some GM cars, engaging the emergency brake handle/lever just enough to get the light to come on will disable the ABS. Is Ford similiar?

[DEW34]

Flescher have you been running the car on the road course
at moroso i see your in palm beach gardens?
mike

[merc406]

Sorry, I won't be party to any idea's on this one, if and when he crashes it without ABS.

[SILVERMARAUDER]

I was at Boundarant racing school and the CV'S that they had as there pace cars had an abs on/off switch on the dash FYI! Do not really advise it though!

[Mikeenh]

I had an Audi Quattro years ago that had an off on switch for the ABS. It saved my bacon a few times to shut it off. In snow country you can have the left tires on dry pavement, but if the right two are on ice.....you don't stop.
I went through an Audi driving school that showed you what it was like to have one side traction and none on the other. It may stay straight and smooth, but as you go through the stop sign because two wheels think it's slippery.....not fun.
I went through a State Police advanced defensive driving school where they taught you to stop as well with fast pumping of the brakes if you didn't have ABS. It woks well.....IF you don't panic.
I went through a Skip Barber driving school this summer where they turn off the ABS for training. Most drivers did some nasty spin outs.
ABS are great in most situations......but Not always.
To each his own.

[TripleTransAm]

The better modern ABS systems will modulate only the wheel that needs it, I think. So thankfully, the "one wheel on snow, the other not" situation shouldn't happen on high performance cars.

[JohnnyB]

I'm looking at the wiring diagram now but I hesitate to give out information for fear of a crash on my conscience. My advice to you, leave the brakes the way they are. Want to stop better, invest in an upgrade kit.....

[Mad1]

Originally posted by JohnnyB
I'm looking at the wiring diagram now but I hesitate to give out information for fear of a crash on my conscience. My advice to you, leave the brakes the way they are. Want to stop better, invest in an upgrade kit.....

You know I really have a problem with this. I've seen several people give very "nebulous" reasons for not providing this information ... out of some misguided attempt to protect someone from himself.

If he'd asked for an "unqualified" diagram of the wiring for the ABS system, how many of you would have provided it without much soul searching or second thoughts? Does his intent mean that much to you?

How many of you on this board are running "chipped" engines, with the "safety" feature for speed governing turned off? What if those in the know had deemed you "unworthy" of sound judgement and refused to give you a means to circumvent something clearly provided for your own protection.

I hope this doesn't come off as too much of a personal rant, but I really think the posts on this thread are misguided in their efforts to limit information on the "off-chance" that someone will misuse it.

I sincerely hope you will offer the help a fellow boarder has requested. Of course, please continue to offer opinions on how "poor" a decision such action would be. And I agree with you.

Jeremy
Mad1

[RCSignals]

Mad1, I know what you are saying, but my answer was honest. After looking at the diagrams, I couldn't tell with any authority where a switch might be placed to "turn off" ABS. I certainly am not going to guess. I suspect others are in a similar position as me on that.

the question asked was
Can anyone tell me where to put a switch that will enable me to disable the antilock brakes?

[jparrie]

I believe the system is fused. Pulling said fuse might be a good place to start.

Jim

[schuvwj]

On dry or wet pavement ABS is great, but on ice or snow I would with a doubt turn it off!

ABS on my last Town Car cost me $2,600 of front end damage on an icy covered bridge. Absolutely no stopping power on ice!

[JohnnyB]

You would have to locate the central junction box (14A068), which is hot at all times and install your switch there. Or, install a switch at the ABS control module which is wired to the central junction box.

[cruzer]

I don't think there is any known braking system that will stop a car on wet ice without having studded tires or on-board sand spreaders--we solved the problem by using reverse thrust---haven't figured out how to do that with a Marauder

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by schuvwj
Absolutely no stopping power on ice!

Well on Ice there usually isn't, unless you have something like good studs on all four tires

[mtnh]

The rear wheel speed sensors are connected to the harness inside the trunk, on the leading edge of the spare tire shelf. Just unplug one of them and try the car out. You should get check abs MIL and the abs would be disabled. I tried to figure out in the diagrams, which sensor provides info to the speedo, but was unable to at the level I was into the diagrams at. So, it's probably just one wheel that derives the vehicle speed, (I think it's right rear, for some reason) so unplug the left rear abs sensor in the trunk and verify that the speedo still registers and the cruise control still works. If it does, splice a wire pair into the left rear abs cable and run the wires to the front and install a reliable toggle switch on that cable. You now have an ABS on/off switch, along with a light to remind you of that.

Mike

[flescher]

DEW34
My Marauder is my long distance trip car. I run a rat Saab for a normal driver. I race a sportscar in SCCA in the southeast and northeast so I do know Moroso pretty well and it's only 10 miles from home.

[flescher]

To those of you who offered the info I was looking for, thanks much. I'll try the solution set in the next week or so.
To the others tossing comments- I was just a person looking for info, not advice. There is a difference between one's opinion and one's knowledge. A smart person knows the difference. I've raced sports cars for over 40 years, been national champion once and second in the national championships 6 times. I KNOW (done experiments!) I can stop a car in a shorter distance in ANY conditions without antilock brakes; maybe not straight but shorter. Antilock brakes were designed to permit an inexperienced (also inattentive or untrained) driver to stop a car straight. I wouldn't have my wife drive a car without them, but they are simply not better than regular brakes. Just different. It is indeed true that very high tech antilock systems like used in Formula 1 will stop one faster, BUT not true of what is available to the public.

[sailsmen]

Please keep in mind this is an open forum, read by over 1,000 members.

The opinons may have been expressed for the benefit of the "average driver" who may read the thread.