Transmission servicing

[RF Overlord]

OK, this may be old news to some; I suspected this was true, but it's nice to have confirmation, even if it's from a somewhat biased source...

Transmission fluid and filter changes (http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/98-2.html)

Now that many of us are nearing, or in some cases have exceeded, 15,000 or so miles, this may be of some importance to the longevity of our transmissions. Draining the fluid to get at the filter is a messy PITA, so many service stations and especially the quicky-lube type places are offering a transmission fluid flush, using a machine called the T-Tech, which splices into one of the cooler lines and uses the pump in the transmission to force out the old fluid, while simultaneously refilling with fresh. This is way cool, BUT, as the article says, you're not done yet; the filter still needs to be changed, so it's still a messy job. There are a couple of solutions; buy Dennis's transmission pan: it's a genuine Ford piece, with a factory installed drain plug...very elegant solution, virtually undetectable by the dealer (for those of you with warranty-itis). The other alternative is to install an aftermarket drain plug. B&M sells them for about 10 bux IIRC. All you need is a ½" drill bit. Either of these makes subsequent filter changes much easier and MUCH less messy.

So whether you DIY, or take it somewhere, do like they say in the link, and do it much more often than the owner's manual calls for. I just did mine a month ago (approx 15,000 miles), and installed Dennis's pan. I intend to do it every 15,000 miles, with a new filter, now that the job is so much easier and cleaner.

[LincMercLover]

Supposively (according to some tranny people I've talked to), a lot of the filters these days are nylon, and when the T-Tech thing-a-ma-jig "backwashes" the tranny, it essentially cleans the filter. Plus, when you drain just the pan of tranny fluid, you're only getting like 40% (I think...) of the old fluid out... This may be something to do like every other change?

[RF Overlord]

The T-Tech doesn't "back-wash" the transmission...it simply goes in-line with one of the cooler lines. You start the car's engine and let the transmission's pump force the old fluid into one end of a chamber with a piston and a seal, much like the inside of a shock absorber. The fresh fluid is on the other side, and as the old fluid pushes the piston up, it forces the fresh fluid to flow back into the transmission in the normal fashion...so the filter will still need to be replaced. (And the filter isn't nylon; it's a resin-impregnated paper, much like that in an oil filter, and isn't cleanable...)

You are right about dropping the pan only changing a portion of the fluid...it did seem to be about 30-40%...I used approx 5 quarts and I think the trans and TC together hold about 12-13. Since I am going to install Dennis's cooler and his shift kit (hint, hint Dennis...are they ready yet?), I think my change interval should be about right...*DISCLAIMER*: Your results may vary...

[mtnh]

Did we determine if this car has the older panther style TC drain plug or what? I seem to recall reading that this car does not have the removable plug on the converter.

Mike

[sailsmen]

I have seen 20k as a reccomended change interval on a TCOA chat board by one of the engineers of the 470.

[schuvwj]

My MM service intervals are:
1) Trany oil and filter every 10,000 miles.
2) Rear end oil, 1st change 1,000 miles and 10,000 miles after.
3) Stock air cleaner every 5,000 miles.
4) Engine oil and filter every 2,500 miles (5-20wt Motocraft oil and filter).
5) Fuel Filter every 10,000 miles.
6) Tire rotation side to side every 5,000 miles.
7) Wiper blades every year.
8) Replace power steering oil every 10,000 miles.
9) Replace antifreeze every two years (I here the yellow turns to gray goop after a couple of years)

Just my two cents!

[TJH]

Good topic. I am having my transmission completely serviced- dropping the pan, changing the filter, then the fluid- before taking delivery (at 6400 miles). This is due to the fact that most transmission wear occurs long before the 15,000 mile mark- it is typically within the first 1500-2000 miles.
Changing fluid/filter at the recommended 15,000 mile intervals AFTER the inital service is a good rule of thumb, but for any transmisison that is seeing severe duty or high performance work, cleaning out all of the break-in wear materials as soon as possible will yied the most benefit in terms of transmission longevity.
Now, to install a spin-on, fine mesh filter in the trans oil cooler lines (like on the 2003.25-2004 6.0L diesel SuperDuty trucks)...

[Macon Marauder]

Seems strange to me that more isn't heard about spin-on filters and such. Also seems to me that modern cars ought to come with a drain plug in the trans pan from the factory since the service interval seems so short these days.

I remember the "good old days" when we'd run 'em 100,000 miles and more and NEVER go into the trans...

[carfixer]

I respectfully disagree with changing the transmission filter at every fluid change. My shop uses a flush machine and it does a great job. If the fluid is just discolored and not burnt and there are no transmission complaints, a flush every 15k is all that we do. The Filter Manufacturers Council recommends filters for obvious reasons, IMO. A filter change will do no harm, just don't find it necessary.

A safe transmission service schedule, IMO, is fluid every 15k, filter every third change.

schuvwj, I want to be your mechanic!:)

[TheDealer]

Ford's Maintenance Guide says 30K. RAY

[DetGeno]

I stick with the owner's manual recommandations and I bet I'll still get 200k-300k out of this MM!

[Brutus]

Any one have any comments on replacing the trans fluid with synthetic? Anybody already done this?

[Amsoil_Dealer]

Originally posted by Brutus
Any one have any comments on replacing the trans fluid with synthetic? Anybody already done this?

Brutus,

I believe the Mercon V that is a factory fill in your car is already a synthetic, or at least semi-synthetic product.

A lot of us at www.crownvic.net have changed to from Mercon V to full synthetic ATF. I am obviously partial to Amsoil Synthetic ATF
and if you do a search at CVN you will see that there are lots of people using it with excellent results. To be honest though there are other synthetic ATFs on the market.

If you go to www.crownvic.net, you will find an Amsoil banner ad there and I am the dealer that sponsors that ad. I am considering the same here and am discussing that with the admin as we speak. I'll offer discounts to MM.net member as wel.

Don Stevens
www.lubedealer.com/dstevens
p911sc44@hotmail.com

[Amsoil_Dealer]

I am an advocate of transmission flush systems as opposed to the dropping the pan only method. The reason being is that if you only drop the pan, you do not drain your torque converter which is filled with 7 qts or so of dirty fluid.

Having said that, if any of you are having your tranny serviced don't just blindly have any quick lube shop the has a fluid replacement system do the job. Why? 90% of the shops use bulk ATF that has a Mercon III rating at best. Your car requires Mercon V or better. Be sure that the clean fluid that they are putting back in your car is AT LEAST Mercon V.

By the way, 30000 mile change intervals (of both the fluid and filter are all that is required) provided you use Mercon V Ford factory fluids. Synthetic trans fluid can in most cases safely go double that interval depending upon how the car is driven.


Don

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by Amsoil_Dealer
I am considering the same here and am discussing that with the admin as we speak. I'll offer discounts to MM.net member as well.

That is excellent news...I hope things work out... :D

Don is correct that Mercon V is in fact a synthetic blend and that ONLY Mercon V-rated fluid should be used in our 4R70Ws.

The only "rebuttal", if you will, I'd like to make is on the subject of transmission flushing. I estimate that dropping the pan changes approx 1/3 of the fluid, while replenishing depleted additives. I believe if the ATF is changed with the proper interval for the type of use the car gets, you'll be changing the fluid well before it gets "dirty", so the remaining fluid is less of a concern. Additionally, dropping the pan also allows you to see the amount and type of deposits in there, and the amount of wear metals attracted to the pan magnet, giving more information as to the internal condition of the transmission.

I guess the ideal method would be to drop the pan (to change the filter and check for deposits), refill it, and THEN do the flush, giving the best of both worlds...

[Brutus]

Thanks for the info. I know that I have heard that switching to full synthetic will give you a little extra HP due to less frictional losses. Also while looking into tranny upgrades, I came across Performance Automatic (http://www.performanceautomatic.com/marauder_page.htm) which has upgrades specifically for the Marauder.

[Amsoil_Dealer]

Originally posted by Brutus
Thanks for the info. I know that I have heard that switching to full synthetic will give you a little extra HP due to less frictional losses.

Ther is an entire thread about usable HP gains through use of synthetics on CVN.

http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB23&Number=446855&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

Don

[Amsoil_Dealer]

I agree 100%. Igues this is what I meant to say.

Don

[TripleG]

Just had J & M install Dennis exhaust and wanted to beef up or help the tranny so I told him to install a tranny cooler. Today when I picked up the car he said it already had one installed.
I said it was news to me and I would post the question on this site. I have 10K on the car and since the car was in the shop I had them change the filter and fluid. I got to say the tranny is smooth as silk.

The question is - Is a tranny cooler std.

[SergntMac]

Yep, a tranny cooler is included stock, adding to that with a second cooler is what many of us debate. I did it, and I am pleased with my results. Also. my second cooler has a fan blowing through it always, but this may not be for you. It's winter now anyway, give it another look-see in May?

[merc406]

I lost line pressure with the big inline oil filter type, and now use a fuel filter, plumb it into the return line.
As far as tranny oil and filter changes, while I don't recommed this, I have my winter beater, an 83 M/ G/M that didn't get it's change for 130,000 miles. I now have 285,000 miles on it with no problems, but I use an A/C cooler on it.
Dropping the trans pan is no big deal, just use a very large drain pan that covers more than the size of your trans. pan.

[jfclancy]

Thanks RF that method sounds good to me

Joe CLancy

[jfclancy]

This is a duplicate post sort of, I just had mine flushed and filter changed at 17,000 miles. Fluid was extremely dark, the tech said he has seen cars with 70,000 miles between trans service not as dark. anyhow it does seem to shift better now.

Joe Clancy

[ModMech]

I would like to add some to this thread.

First, adding an external ATF filter is a BAD idea. Why? Because the cooler circuit also is the one that performs the "lubricating" of the rotating assembly on it's way back into the trans. Now, typically if you remove the "fluid out" hose at the Trans. you'll get 3-4 qt/min of flow, with a GOOD cooler that can be cut to as little as 2 qt/min on the return side. Reducing flow is NOT GOOD for lubrication. Would you restrict the oil flow in your engine? No, of course not. Adding an external filter (especially the Motorcraft "black can") can further reduce flow, up to 50% in many cases. And, the dirtier the filter gets, the less it will flow.

Second, adding an additional cooler is not really needed. The factory cooler is thermostatically controlled to aid in warm-up, and then regulate the ATFs upper temp limit. Now, as the fluid gets warmer, it also thins, which will improve flow (in Qt/min), the greater the flow, the more efficient the cooler can be. As with the external filter(s), additional restrictions (in this case coolers) are a BAD idea for long life of the gearsets.

Third, what makes the MOST heat? A slipping T/C under load. Well guess what? FMC has programmed ALL "lock-up" T/Cs to slip some, even during WOT heavy loads. They unlock only if the ATF gets too hot, or is too cold. Now, if you lock the T/C at 100% duty cycle so it is either "full on" or "full off", you no longer generate as much heat, AND you make MORE power! This is only possible thru proper programming of the PCM. Your benifits are less heat (reducing the cooling load of the ATF cooler), and improved power, that's a "win/win" situation.

Fourth, just drill the T/C and tap for a 1/8" NPT "pipe plug", then you can drain the T/C yourself. My personal opinion is that if you are not draining the T/C, don't bother changing the fluid. That said, you can pump out the pan, add 4 qts, pump that out, repeat, reattach the cooler hose, and refill. That will be *about* a 75% change-out of ATF.

As I'm sure most of you know, use ONLY Mercon V approved ATF.

[merc406]

Coolers will save your trans for people that have a h/p T/C and or taller gears. The flow rate for most is not an issue with most aftermarket coolers, their just an extension of tube. I would not drill or tap a t/c for fear of getting metal shaving's, however tiny into the converter, some aftermarket converters already have a drain, but having it flushed will do the t/c also. I personally like my trans temp between 170 and 190 and have never had a temp related problem.

[Bob Mathis]

OK!
I just changed the filter and fluid in my trans. and I found nothing but some film, which I belive to be normal due to it being new from the get go. I wanted to drain the T/C but it had no drain plug, like some other Ford's did. I throught about the drilling and tapping but wasn't sure about a balance problem. I would like to know if that is a good way or maybe taking a cooler line loose.

[01True BlueGT]

Well, working at a dealer I can tell you the exact maint. that is scheduled if you bought the maint. plan.

5k- oil change
10k - oil change
15k- oil change
20k- oil change & cabin air filer(n/a on MM)
25k - oil change
30k- oil change and tranny service(change 6 qts fluid & filter)

Obviously, the more often the better is my opinion. I use to change the oil in my mustang every month whether it needed it or not, and at 90k, when I tool the racing cam out to sell the vehicle, the upper half of the intake was spotless.

Mercon V is the the recommended fluid. part # XT-5-QM.

Hope this helps and I'm not repeating things already said.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by ModMech
FMC has programmed ALL "lock-up" T/Cs to slip some, even during WOT heavy loads. They unlock only if the ATF gets too hot, or is too cold. Now, if you lock the T/C at 100% duty cycle so it is either "full on" or "full off", you no longer generate as much heat, AND you make MORE power!


Why in the world would Ford engineer slippage into the TCC lockup? If it never gets to 100% lockup, that would be like driving a manual transmission car with your foot almost constantly riding the clutch, slipping it slightly constantly. That would wear things out in a big hurry, and generate more heat to boot.

[carfixer]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
Why in the world would Ford engineer slippage into the TCC lockup? If it never gets to 100% lockup, that would be like driving a manual transmission car with your foot almost constantly riding the clutch, slipping it slightly constantly. That would wear things out in a big hurry, and generate more heat to boot.

The torque converter clutch does go into 100% lockup. During cruise it will go to full lock-up. They slip the clutch during application and even during dis-engagement to make the transistion seemless. If it was an on-off thing, it would too jerky.

The torque converter clutch has been a thorn in the side of the rear wheel drive Fords since 1991. When the fluid get overheated or degrades, it causes the clutch to chatter on engagment. The fix is a simple fluid change.

[Amsoil_Dealer]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
Why in the world would Ford engineer slippage into the TCC lockup? If it never gets to 100% lockup, that would be like driving a manual transmission car with your foot almost constantly riding the clutch, slipping it slightly constantly. That would wear things out in a big hurry, and generate more heat to boot.

It is not the same as riding the clutch. Torque converters are designed to slip by the very nature of the beast. That is how you can sit at a dead stop with the car in gear and not stall the engine. That is 100% slip at that point. As you drive there is always some slip. More slip under acceleration, nearly none when at cruise or going down a small grade. There is no clutch per se to wear out. The fluid in the T/C is the "clutch" and you are right, the more slippage the more heat is generated. That same fluid not only provides the forward drive it also has to provide the hydraulic pressure to shift the gears, lubricate the gears, and remove the heat from the entire system. Automatic transmissions are a pretty amazing system and the fluid on which they operate has to be pretty amazing stuff.

Lock up T/Cs are relatively new to the industry and I'd really appreciate it if Lidio could explain how they work. I'd also appreciate it if he (or any transmission engineer if we have one here) can tell us what the ideal temperature of trans fluid should be. The point is, these transmissions were designed to operate most efficiently in a specific temperature range, not too hot, not too cold.


Don

[ModMech]

You can monitor wether or not the T/C is at full lock-up. Look at the TCC duty cycle. I think you'll be shocked to see just how much they do slip them.

Why do they do it? Well I can tell you it's not the Engineer's choice to do so, for the reasons suggested...heat, wear, etc. As I understand it, it is for NVH.

A M/T car has a clutch disc with dampner springs in a radial pattern, to absorb minor driveline vibes., in an A/T car with a lock-up T/C there is no mechanism to absorb these vibrations, so they slip the T/C SLIGHTLY (about 32 rpm) as a cushion. It works very well for the intended purpose, but it heats up the fluid especially under heavier loading when more TCC pressure is needed to keep the slip under control.

To drill or not to drill. Since fluid will flow OUT of the T/C as you drill into it and reach the inside, there is little chance shavings will flow upwards into the T/C. When you tap it, you are doing so from the outside in, again almost ALL the shavings will fall to the outside. Cleaning the tap off frequently will further ensure there is no contamination. When the hole is fully tapped, fluid will still be slowly draining from the hole, and it will flush any remaining particles out of the T/C. Is it *possible* something will get into the T/C? Sure, but ulikely, especially if you use care to aviod it.

As for the balance question, that's a good one. I'll try to find out how accurately the T/C and F/W are balanced. Since the mass of an Al 1/8" plug is nearly zero, I cannot see where it would add enough mass to induce a vibration (a T/C is VERY heavy, and you would be adding less than 1% to it's mass, especially after you consider you just removed some when you drilled the hole).

If you are REALLY concerned about the shavings, just flush it through a couple times, and you'll get about a 75% change-out of fluid.

[Bob Mathis]

Thanks ModMech for the infor. I've worked on car's all my life. But I make my living as a aircraft maintenance foreman. I didn't think that it would be problem. If you drill slow you should be OK!. Also if you put some grease on the tap and do it slow it to well keep out the metal.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by carfixer
The torque converter clutch does go into 100% lockup. During cruise it will go to full lock-up. They slip the clutch during application and even during dis-engagement to make the transistion seemless. If it was an on-off thing, it would too jerky.

Thanks. This is how I understood it...

...or more precisely, how it was explained to me by several on this board a few months back. I haven't owned an automatic car made after 1990 until this MM, and my GTA seems to be a full-duty TCC application type of system. Hopefully I will have some spare cash after the holidays to point towards getting an Autotap or something similar, to monitor the PCM's commands... will be interesting to watch.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Amsoil_Dealer
There is no clutch per se to wear out. The fluid in the T/C is the "clutch"


Actually, Don, that's not correct. You're right that the fluid in the converter is what transmits torque (and under the stall speed, actually multiplies torque) but newer converters (since circa 1980 / 1981) have an additional element, the torque converter clutch (TCC).

This clutch IS of the traditional friction material style, and is designed to mechanically connect the input and output sides of the torque converter, to eliminate slippage that is unnecessary during steady cruising speeds.

During unlocked operation, the input side and output side are not rotating at identical speeds. Once the vehicle reaches a predetermined "cruising" speed (pretty much when the engineers decide that no slippage is to occur, ie. when no torque multiplication should be needed), the PCM commands an electric solenoid that allows tranny fluid pressure to apply this clutch. The output side is then forced to rotate at (theoretically) the same speed as the input side, exactly as the clutch on a manual transmission.

ModMech, I have to admit I'm extremely disappointed to hear of that constant slippage. I do recall the OBD-II standards requiring detection of cylinder misfires, and at the time the greatest challenge was how to weed out the driveline vibrations (from imperfect pavement, potholes, wheel hop, etc.) from actual cylinder misfires. While I'm not sure exactly how they managed to do it on the manual cars (maybe they re-engineered the damping springs to soak up more vibes?) but I never realized the auto trannies would be subjected to this problem with their locked-up TCCs.

Is Ford the only one to employ the slight slip modulation technique? What about other manufacturers?

[carfixer]

As stated in the service manual under "torque converter":
The clutch and damper assembly dampens powertrain torsional vibration and provides a direct mechanical connection for improved efficiency.
I was also unaware of the constant slippage. I will have to bring my scanner home a couple of nights and monitor this and see for myself.

[ModMech]

To my knowledge, ALL manufacturers (at least the big 3) do this.

It's a HUGE problem for people that tow, the heat this can generate is astounding. The "SCT Trio" as Dennis R. puts it, can lock itup at 100%. To the best of my knowldege, no one else can, and FMC refuses to (they have decent reasoning I guess...NVH).

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by carfixer
As stated in the service manual under "torque converter":
The clutch and damper assembly dampens powertrain torsional vibration and provides a direct mechanical connection for improved efficiency.
I was also unaware of the constant slippage. I will have to bring my scanner home a couple of nights and monitor this and see for myself.


Yeah, I saw that same bit of text a few hours ago, during my "literary session" (ie. sitting on the throne, so to speak). ;)

So what that seems to indicate is that the damper assembly as designed by Ford doesn't dampen sufficiently to avoid transmitting driveline vibrations to the engine? Or was this added slippage simply for passenger comfort?

I don't mind the added solidity in the driveline (ie. 100% coupling between engine and tranny) if the TCC dampening is sufficient to keep the computer out of false misfires.

Looks like it's yet another reason to put money towards the SCT product... if it wasn't for my impending house upgrade, I'd be there in a heartbeat!

[drgnrdr33]

On another forum I read about a flushing method used by a racing crew:

1) Detach the return line from the tranny cooler to the transmission
2) Attach a clear vinyl hose the the output of the cooler and feed the hose into a container
3) Start the engine and idle for 3-4 minutes. This pumps out approx 4 quarts of fluid into the container.
4) Stop engine as soon as bubbles are seen in the clear tube.
5) Fill the transmission with the amount of fluid pumped out.
6) Repeat above until the color of the fluid being pumped through the clear tube looks new.
7) Shut off the engine
8) reconnect the cooler line
9) Add needed amount of fluid to transmission.

What do you think? If it works, I save approx $110 over what the dealer charges.

Now - me thinking for myself (the dangerous part) :shake:

What if during the above process I let about 1 quart get pumped out and started adding fluid while the engine was running. It takes about 30 seconds or so to get a quart down the fill tube. Seems like if I timed it right, I could just keep adding new fluid, just a little slower than it is pumped out, until the tranny was flushed. Then shut off the engine, connect the cooler lines, and adjust the fluid level to spec.

Comments and :flamer: welcome.

[MENINBLK]

I stick with the owner's manual recommandations and I bet I'll still get 200k-300k out of this MM!

Would you trust FORD with the maintenance on your home too ???

[MENINBLK]

Lock up T/Cs are relatively new to the industry and I'd really appreciate it if Lidio could explain how they work. I'd also appreciate it if he (or any transmission engineer if we have one here) can tell us what the ideal temperature of trans fluid should be. The point is, these transmissions were designed to operate most efficiently in a specific temperature range, not too hot, not too cold.

Don

Lockup Torque Converters have been used in transmissions/transaxles since the late 70's early 80's.
There were Mechanical Spring Lockup Torque converters and Hydraulic Pressure Application Locking Torque Converters.
The Hydraulic won over the Mechanical type because the Mechanical type was troublesome
and once locked and jammed you could not unlock it very easily.
If the Hydraulic locked and jammed, it would stall the engine, releasing the pressure,
once the engine stopped spinning the Torque Converter, and then upon restart,
would work like a normal Torque Converter until it got hot enough to jam again.
The very first Automatic Overdrive Transmission had a locking Torque Converter.

Automotive manufacturers were forced to update their transmission technologies
due to the CAFE restrictions and regulations enacted in the 70's.
This is when they were introduced into motor vehicles.

[merc406]

On another forum I read about a flushing method used by a racing crew:

1) Detach the return line from the tranny cooler to the transmission
2) Attach a clear vinyl hose the the output of the cooler and feed the hose into a container
3) Start the engine and idle for 3-4 minutes. This pumps out approx 4 quarts of fluid into the container.
4) Stop engine as soon as bubbles are seen in the clear tube.
5) Fill the transmission with the amount of fluid pumped out.
6) Repeat above until the color of the fluid being pumped through the clear tube looks new.
7) Shut off the engine
8) reconnect the cooler line
9) Add needed amount of fluid to transmission.

What do you think? If it works, I save approx $110 over what the dealer charges.

Now - me thinking for myself (the dangerous part) :shake:

What if during the above process I let about 1 quart get pumped out and started adding fluid while the engine was running. It takes about 30 seconds or so to get a quart down the fill tube. Seems like if I timed it right, I could just keep adding new fluid, just a little slower than it is pumped out, until the tranny was flushed. Then shut off the engine, connect the cooler lines, and adjust the fluid level to spec.

Comments and :flamer: welcome.




The way you do it is the way I do it on the Marauder every fall. I change the filter once every 3 years, and the inline filter every fall, my 63 gets driven only 4-600 miles a year.

[RF Overlord]

Seems like if I timed it right, I could just keep adding new fluid, just a little slower than it is pumped out, until the tranny was flushed. Then shut off the engine, connect the cooler lines, and adjust the fluid level to spec.

Man, all of a sudden a bunch of old threads are being dredged up... :D

Since I'm here, drgnrdr33, the way you suggest in the last paragraph of your post is actually quite common, however, if the fluid is changed often enough using the simple pan-drop method (installing a pan with a drain plug makes it MUCH easier, quicker, and less messy), there should never be any need to do a flush as you describe...change the ATF once a year or 15,000 miles, with a new filter every 2nd or 3rd time, and your transmission should last forever.

[Merc-O-matic]

The tranny in my 1997 Grand Marquis has been
acting up... with 40,000 plus miles
at 70-80 MPH there was a ratcheting (bumping sound)
Had the tranny drained/new filter installed
with about 40% of the transmission fluid
changed...6-7 new quarts of fluid. (holds 13 qts)
Problem fixed!
Went 120,000 miles in my 1985 Grand Marquis
and never cracked the tranny once!
So much for technology...

Gotta Love It! :rasta:

[David Morton]

On another forum I read about a flushing method used by a racing crew:

1) Detach the return line from the tranny cooler to the transmission
2) Attach a clear vinyl hose the the output of the cooler and feed the hose into a container
3) Start the engine and idle for 3-4 minutes. This pumps out approx 4 quarts of fluid into the container.
4) Stop engine as soon as bubbles are seen in the clear tube.
5) Fill the transmission with the amount of fluid pumped out.
6) Repeat above until the color of the fluid being pumped through the clear tube looks new.
7) Shut off the engine
8) reconnect the cooler line
9) Add needed amount of fluid to transmission.

What do you think? If it works, I save approx $110 over what the dealer charges.

Now - me thinking for myself (the dangerous part) :shake:

What if during the above process I let about 1 quart get pumped out and started adding fluid while the engine was running. It takes about 30 seconds or so to get a quart down the fill tube. Seems like if I timed it right, I could just keep adding new fluid, just a little slower than it is pumped out, until the tranny was flushed. Then shut off the engine, connect the cooler lines, and adjust the fluid level to spec.

Comments and :flamer: welcome.Stick with the 'racing crew' method. It works well, is very easy and will remove 95% of the ATF. What you propose may just dilute the fluid by mixing more of the fresh in with the old and that will take more new fluid to get that nice sweet smell of fresh fluid coming out. Running the convertor 'dry' for a few seconds won't hurt it a bit.

And one more thing about filters, the only time an automatic transmission needs a filter is during that first 1000 miles when the little flakes of clutch and metal drop off, 1/8 teaspoon or less. If it still makes metal after that something is wrong and it will break down anyways. ATF is a great cleaner and will have the inside clean as a whistle after that. The filters are as big as car vacuum cleaner bags nowadays and never need replacing unless work is done on the internal parts.

As it was stated earlier, the filter manufacturers council is the one driving folks into the unnecessary expense of changing transmission filters.

[drgnrdr33]

Thanks all for the comments. I dropped my pan Monday, wiped it and the magnet clean, replaced the filter, and installed a drain plug in the pan. My fluid is brown, not red - thus the thoughts about flushing. I did not own the car for the first 21k miles, so I have no idea what the original owner did to it.

The drain plug I added will make the job easier, but letting the tranny pump itself out seems easiet.

[drgnrdr33]

I tried the method described above this past Saturday. It could not have been much easier. It only took about an hour from start to finish, including washing up the dirty pan and hose. I did not even have to jack up the car to get to the cooler output hose.

Some details:
0) Shop for trans fluid. My local LM dealer sells Mercon V for $4.92/qt. My local Ford dealer (next door to the LM dealer) sells it for $3.18/qt.
1) the trans cooler output hose is the one on the top of the cooler. Follow it down until it gets near the crankshaft pulley. On my MM, this was the hose closest to the pulley.
2) the hose is 5/16" ID.
3) get about 6-7ft of 5/16" ID clear vinyl tubing from Home Depot and a 5/16" OD barbed vacuum line splice from the local autoparts store.
4) put a pan under the crank pulley to catch the few tablespoons of trans fluid that come out of the cooler hose when separated from the trans fluid return line.
5) insert one end of the barbed vaccum hose fitting into the cooler hose and the other into one end of the clear vinyl hose. No clamps needed.
6) get a large oil container to hold what comes out of the cooler when the engine is running.
7) dont worry about plugging the steel return line. Nothing comes out of it.
8) start the engine and leave in park.
9) It takes 20-30 seconds to pump out a quart. A little over 1 minute for 4 quarts to come out. After this, you see lots of bubbles then a clear hose.
10) stop the engine then add 4 quarts of new trans fluid.
11) repeat steps 8-10 until you see a color change. Mine happened around 14 quarts.


I only wish there was some way to flush the brakes that was this easy.

[merc406]

Here's alittle more on tranny cooling.....http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=74182&messageid=1089703539