Dirty (Inside) Headlight Lens

[Ross]

I know there have been a lot of posts about fogging, etc. of the headlight lenses, but what about dirt on the inside of the lenses? It looks like there is a film of dirt that probably came from dust sticking to the moist lenses. Can these lenses be taken off and cleaned inside, or are they a one piece design that won't let you get inside of them?

[Dr Caleb]

One piece. And the place where you put in the bulb is blocked by the reflector, so going in the back door is difficult...

My dealer *Still* won't replace them.

[jgc61sr2002]

Ross - I had streaks inside my lights (from moisture) and my dealer refused to replace them. Went to another dealer who replaced them.

[nslatin]

jgc61sr2002,

Which dealer did you go to on LI. I have one headlight and two fog lights with condensation inside that need to be replaced. Since I bought my MM out of state, I have no real loyalty yet.

Thanks,
Neal

[studio460]

My service writer had the claim denied by Ford on the moisture-in-the-headlamp problem. He said the moisture "has to be beading up" to be accepted for warranty replacement. He knew about the TSB and said that's what Ford said.

[Agent M79]

I do not have this problem... yet.

How is the moisture getting in there in the first place and what can be done to prevent it from happening?

[Smokie]

Ross The headlights are complete assemblies including bulb, mine were stained and my Service dealer (not a car dealership just service) replaced them, so I guess is a local decision, find a dealer that will help you.

[jbr927]

Mine is going in Thursday for a replacement lamp. The service manager that wrote up the request said this is a very common problem in the Marauder, Lincoln LS, Navigator and Aviator. They told me no problem. My concern is the night before I had washed the car and 60% of the lamp was "fogged". By the time I got it to the dealership the next day it was down to the size of a nickle. I was sure they were going to say no, but he said because it is such a common problem he would take care of it.

I have had to make many calls to different dealership service departments to find one I want to work with. This one I stumbled on by accident, but on this issue they were very helpful. It's unfortunate, but I'm learning that doing a fair amount of leg work prior to taking this car to anyone definitely pays off!!!

[Silver_04]

I used to intern at the place that made Gran Marquis headlamps while in college and when we received returns that had this problem it was because there was a bad seal somewhere letting air/moisture in the lamp assembly. The moisture is condensation. To check/fix take the lamps off of the car, disassembly and place them in a dry place to air out. Check the o-ring around the bulb and the shape of the back cover. If all looks well after drying put the lamps back on the car. If the moisture returns its due to a bad seal between the lens and lamp body. The lamps should be replaced if the lens is not properly sealed to the lamp body. No suggestions on how to remove dirt though. However, anything on the lamp that reduces light output could be a potential safety issue and the dealer might need to be reminded of this.

Also, since on the topic of headlamps, they have a clear coat paint on them and if they ever start to yellow on the outside-the paint has failed.

[CRUZTAKER]

The dirt only gets worse over time......it amazes me that some dealerships actually REFUSE to fix this warranty item, tsb or not, and more so amazes me how many members accept this refusal!

[vegasmarauder]

The replacement headlamp assemblies are a different design. There is now a full rubber cover over the entire back of the lamp assemly where the bulb goes in. This is in place of the hard plastic rear cover with the rubber O-ring on it. So I would aasume from the re-design they (Ford) felt there was a problem with the previous design. I will bet the 2004's have the "new" headlamp assemblies..

[Silver_04]

'04 with the rubber covers on the back-no plastic.

[gilby04]

Your bet is right on the mark, vegasmarauder.
My '04 DTR, built 08/28/03, has no fog problem.
Full diameter rubber boots enclose the entire housings where the bulbs enter.

[carfixer]

Here is a copy and paste of the service message from Ford:

16997
2003 GRAND MARQUIS AND MARAUDER - MOISTURE IN HEADLAMPS:
SOME 2003 GRAND MARQUIS OR MARAUDER VEHICLES MAY EXHIBIT EXCESSIVE MOISTURE IN ONE OR BOTH HEAD LAMPS. A SMALL AMOUNT OF CONDENSATION IS NORMAL DUE TO COOLING OF THE HEADLAMP AND THE CONTAINED AIR. TO DETERMINE IF THE MOISTURE IS EXCESSIVE, INSPECT THE HEADLAMP. IF THERE IS STANDING WATER INSIDE THE HEADLAMP, THE HEADLAMP MUST BE REPLACED. IF CONDENSATION IS PRESENT ON THE LENS, TURN ON THE HIGH BEAMS FOR 10 MINUTES TO ALLOW THE HEADLAMP TO WARM AND EVAPORATE THE MOISTURE. IF THERE IS STILL CONDENSATION AFTER 10 MINUTES PROCEED WITH HEADLAMP REPLACEMENT. REPLACE HEADLAMP WITH THE FOLLOWING PARTS. GRAND MARQUIS: 3W3Z-13008-AC (RH), 3W3Z-13008-AD (LH) MARAUDER: 3W3Z-13008-BC (RH), 3W3Z-13008-BD (LH)

[gilby04]

carfixer,

If the integrity of the head lamp seals are intact to begin with, and have a condensation problem, where does the latent moisture go after having been evaporated by a 10 minute high beam burn ? Seems to me there would be only a differential interior pressure issue of the contained air, not moisture, when the lamps are on either low or high beam...or am I over-simplifying the problem ?
The Ford service message refers to "SOME" Grand Marquis and Marauder vehicles may exhibit moisture...if a small amount of moisture is normal, according to the service message, why wouldn't both lamps on ALL vehicles be affected, rather than just on SOME vehicles in one or both lamps ?
Sounds to me like " sometimes they do fog, and sometimes they don't fog" razza-matazz Factory double talk...in my opinion.

[BillyGman]

that what Silver04 said was right about the rubber(or plastic) seals around the lenses. When I was at the racetrack w/Constable, MartyO, and BigBob, I noticed that all four of our Marauders(mine inscluded) had atleast one of the two headlight lenses, that were actually buckled away from the car, creating a gap between the outer lense seal, and the actual quarter panel of the car. It can be seen while looking at it in the daylight from the sideview of the car.:rolleyes:
So that must be the cause of the lense fog.

[carfixer]

Gilby,
The headlights have "protected" air vents to bleed pressure from the headlights but keep water out. In certain conditions, it is possible for humidity to show up inside the headlight but will go away with a little heat from the headlight bulb. When there is more than a little humidity inside the headlight, it is caused by an open seam somewhere in the headlight assembly.
If there is enough moisture inside the headlight to cause staining on the inside of the lens or reflector, or puddling, it would be irresponsible of the dealer to refuse to replace it.

Side note:
The dealers do not have a blank check from Ford to repair cars. Ford monitors all Ford and L/M dealers warranty spending habits. They look at average $ spent for each type of repair ie: trim, engine, trans... For example, headlight lens' fall under exterior trim. If they replaced both headlights on your car and they bill Ford $250, and they do it to all that are concerned about moisture inside the lens, it brings their average cost per repair of exterior trim up. These numbers are compared to other dealers. If a certain dealer is higher than the average, that dealer is subject to an audit. An audit is the last thing anyone wants.
Ford may also call back any part that is replaced under warranty for inspection. If they determine that a part that was replaced was not defective, they can charge the dealer back for parts and labor for the whole repair.

Our job is to fix the car, but if we don't stay within Ford's guideline, we are penalized. They make the rules, the dealers must follow them.

[captJ696]

Instead of wrangling with my current dealer regarding replacement of the mouldings/ (headlight), I`m in the process of looking for another dealer. I received courteous help yesterday from a dealer in Valley Stream, NY/ Country-West L/M who assisted me to replace a rear mat set. The parts guy there went on-line to view MM.net after having trouble locating the parts on his data terminal.

[woaface]

My Marquis gets dirt inside pretty bad too...Once in a while i'll take the bulb out and spray some water inside with a hose lightly...for fogging, I've taken a blow dryer to the inside or outside and that worked and I haven't seen any fogging in a while...