Health Care, Obama.....

[Dr Caleb]

Dr. Caleb,

I was wondering how your medical records are handled in the medical system there if it was going to be comparable to what is to be in our newly passed Healthcare bill.In the bill we have been debating that was recently passed here everyones medical records are no longer held confidential between you and your doctor.

They are available to panels of bureacrats in Washington to make medical decisions based on charts and numbers. This is another big objection with citizens here as we have been exposed to what happens when records and files are exposed to bureacrats. When Bill Clinton was in office hundreds of FBI files were found not at FBI headquarters but in the White House. So any politician or official has access to your records and confidentiality to threaten or coerce you into doing what they want. I am sure this would not happen in Canada but we have a bunch of unsavory politicians down here.

We have rules as to what the government can and cannot do with our personal data. Firstly, because healthcare is administered provincially, the Feds have no claim to our personal data. The feds also have specific rules, such as they are not allowed to share our personal data between ministries.

The base information without personal identification is sent to Statistics Canada, who compile the data and statistics (see my links earlier). They also have a mandate to not release any personally identifiable information. There was a big fuss a while back, because Lockheed Martin was contracted to collect the Canada wide vital statistics for the Census. There was a popular uprising, because people were concerned our personal information could be given to the US government. Sure, the contract stated no such exchange would occur, but Lockheed Martin knows who their daddy is. If the US government requested the Canadian census data, we'd be brain dead to think they wouldn't comply. So they were removed from involvement in the Census.

As for how the records are handled, I know exactly because that's actually what I do for a living. I work for IBM, on the Alberta Health contract. The records are kept as secure as if they were banking information. They are easily available, my General Practitioner and Neurologist I saw last week both have access to the MRIs I had recently, and the results of the Transesopageal Echocardiogram I had. They can pull the scans up on a computer in either of their offices and we an look at them. But, they are not stored nor do they ever remain permanently on the computers in his office because the data is handled by a custom built app. An ER doctor then has access to my medical history say, if they need to know what prescriptions I'm on.

The 'back end' that I administer is mostly to ensure that data is never really anywhere but on authorized systems. It can't be copied or printed. It can not be stored on a desktop or laptop computer. It can never be left in someone's briefcase to be lost accidentally. Politicians can never have access to the raw data. It's for medical personnel only. They have to go with what StatCan provides them.

We take our personal data very seriously, especially medical data. We even have laws that corporations must follow with respect to personal data (PIPEDA (http://www.priv.gc.ca/legislation/02_06_01_e.cfm)) - something 'State Farm' is fighting because they feel it's discriminatory to their business practices, as they must treat customers on both sides of the border differently. Heaven forbid different countries have different laws.

I'm not sure how records are to be handled in your new system, but you better make sure no one has access to them other than people involved in maintaining your health. Period. Full stop.

[SC Cheesehead]

I'm not sure how records are to be handled in your new system, but you better make sure no one has access to them other than people involved in maintaining your health. Period. Full stop.

Now you're starting to see the issue. Part of Obamacare is a National Health Registry that will be accessable by numerous governmental agencies, including the IRS.

And you wonder why we're not too keen on this whole deal? :rolleyes:

[Bluerauder]

We have rules as to what the government can and cannot do with our personal data.

We have rules too. We also have HIPAA. It doesn't seem to matter much. :rolleyes:

[LIGHTNIN1]

Now you're starting to see the issue. Part of Obamacare is a National Health Registry that will be accessable by numerous governmental agencies, including the IRS.

And you wonder why we're not too keen on this whole deal? :rolleyes:

Dr. Caleb,
Thanks for the information. Those T E tests are fun aren't they? I had one last year. I figured you had a much more secure system in Canada. The government there seems a lot less corrupt than these holier than thou people we have in office here. Like S C Cheesehead said, everyone including your local trash hauler will have access to our health records under our new enlightened system. When hundreds of highly classified FBI files on individuals go missing for months and all of a sudden mysteriously turn up on a table outside Hillary Clintons bedroom, it is hard to think that anything different might happen with our health records. I would not trust Hillary Clinton with keys to the restroom.

[Leadfoot281]

There we go. That is exactly how it's supposed to be.

You, like me, AND ALL OTHERS that I know don't want to pay into these programs. However, many sure are happy to have them available in their time of need.

How many dumba$$e$ bitched and complained about paying S.Security and Medicare/ Aid all their lives? I am willing to bet most if not all.

Only a few, however, did well enough in life to NOT depend on those very Socialist programs when they got old or hit hard times.

Sure, they bitched and wined OVER AND OVER, but jumped at "cashing in" soon as they were eligible for those socialist programs.

Same with health care. This thread began with folks saying they would rather go to jail than pay for health care.

If it were up to me, I would most certainly allow ANYONE to opt out of buying health care, but DON'T EVEN TRY TO HIT UP AN EMERGANCY ROOM UNLESS YOU HAVE THE FUNDS TO PAY YOUR OWN WAY.

Got ill unexpectedly and don't have insurance and officially opted out of buying into "the health care plan"? GO F YOURSELF. "I" don't want your fees passed on to me. However, most are too dumb to know that they NEED these programs. Face it, most folks just don't get to the financial point were they won't depend on these programs at one point.

How many Americans are living paycheck to paycheck? How many are just a few paychecks away from blowing through all their savings? How many don't have jack s h ! t for savings and are in debt living off credit (while they still can)?

You expect them to pay their own way of a health crisis? Even just a few days in the hospital can easily cost $30-$100K+.

How many collecting S.Security, Medicare/ Aid, and Unemployment bitched about it? However, I have yet to meet one who refuses to "cash in" though.

I've never 'cashed in". When Bush sent me that $700 stimulus check I sent it to the Make a wish foundation. When Minnesota sent me a $600 property tax refund last year, that also went to the Make a wish foundation.

I've never received an income tax refund. In the last ten years I've paid a little more than 1 million dollars in taxes. Despite all this, when I needed money to replace some fences here on the farm, rather than use a government program to help pay for half of it ($60,000) I declined it and basically went under.

Heck, I didn't even take the GI Bill when I joined the Army during the first half of the Gulf War back in 1990. Don't even try saying the Army was some sort of Free money government program. The $650/mo I earned there was about the toughest money I've ever earned.

I don't care what anyone says, there are far worse things that can happen to a person than being broke or dead. No law can prevent people from being stupid with their money. No bureaucrat is better with my money than me.

While others were dropping 7k on blowers, I bought Ford. When others were buying new cars, I was driving around $100 Fairmonts and $300 Jeeps. I've never even rented a DVD. My friends went to college. I bought $12k worth of Oracle instead and sold it three years later for $112,000. Today, most of them are either broke or out of work. I'm self insured.

I won't pay the fine for not having insurance. They can't make me. I just don't want it. I don't want or need SS either. Whatever happened to; America, land of the brave, home of the free?

An Army of one. Living the rule of 72. One day at a time.

[LIGHTNIN1]

If we are going to be guaranteed healthcare, Social Security, Medicare, childcare,unemployment insurance, section 8 housing, welfare,SSI, food stamps, government cheese, abortions, and all the other things the government guarantees me when I am born, I demand some things that will help me enjoy myself and I demand them now. Some of these demands are, a new Mustang every 3 years, Cuban Cigars of my choice, an IPAD, a 400K house by the beach, a daily visit by a nurse of my choice, an 80 inch screen TV, a blower for the Marauder, steak and seafood twice weekly, two Arabian horses and the list will get longer.
Sounds ridiculous doesn"t it? So are all the government programs we are guaranteed.

[SC Cheesehead]

If we are going to be guaranteed healthcare, Social Security, Medicare, childcare,unemployment insurance, section 8 housing, welfare,SSI, food stamps, government cheese, abortions, and all the other things the government guarantees me when I am born, I demand some things that will help me enjoy myself and I demand them now. Some of these demands are, a new Mustang every 3 years, Cuban Cigars of my choice, an IPAD, a 400K house by the beach, a daily visit by a nurse of my choice, an 80 inch screen TV, a blower for the Marauder, steak and seafood twice weekly, two Arabian horses and the list will get longer.
Sounds ridiculous doesn"t it? So are all the government programs we are guaranteed.


Love it! If I could get those things guaranteed, I'd gladly pay higher taxes. ;)

[FordNut]

... pay higher taxes. ;)

We're going to. They're talking about taxing the internet now to fund the new FCC plans. And a new VAT just for the heck of it.

[CBT]

We can become one of the 16 thousand new IRS agents, or we can all get jobs in these new programs that were created and included in the Health Bill:

1. Grant program for consumer assistance offices (Section 1002, p. 37)

2. Grant program for states to monitor premium increases (Section 1003, p. 42)

3. Committee to review administrative simplification standards (Section 1104, p. 71)

4. Demonstration program for state wellness programs (Section 1201, p. 93)

5. Grant program to establish state Exchanges (Section 1311(a), p. 130)

6. State American Health Benefit Exchanges (Section 1311(b), p. 131)

7. Exchange grants to establish consumer navigator programs (Section 1311(i), p. 150)

8. Grant program for state cooperatives (Section 1322, p. 169)

9. Advisory board for state cooperatives (Section 1322(b)(3), p. 173)

10. Private purchasing council for state cooperatives (Section 1322(d), p. 177)

11. State basic health plan programs (Section 1331, p. 201)

12. State-based reinsurance program (Section 1341, p. 226)

13. Program of risk corridors for individual and small group markets (Section 1342, p. 233)

14. Program to determine eligibility for Exchange participation (Section 1411, p. 267)

15. Program for advance determination of tax credit eligibility (Section 1412, p. 288)

16. Grant program to implement health IT enrollment standards (Section 1561, p. 370)

17. Federal Coordinated Health Care Office for dual eligible beneficiaries (Section 2602, p. 512)

18. Medicaid quality measurement program (Section 2701, p. 518)

19. Medicaid health home program for people with chronic conditions, and grants for planning same (Section 2703, p. 524)

20. Medicaid demonstration project to evaluate bundled payments (Section 2704, p. 532)

21. Medicaid demonstration project for global payment system (Section 2705, p. 536)

22. Medicaid demonstration project for accountable care organizations (Section 2706, p. 538)

23. Medicaid demonstration project for emergency psychiatric care (Section 2707, p. 540)

24. Grant program for delivery of services to individuals with postpartum depression (Section 2952(b), p. 591)

25. State allotments for grants to promote personal responsibility education programs (Section 2953, p. 596)

26. Medicare value-based purchasing program (Section 3001(a), p. 613)

27. Medicare value-based purchasing demonstration program for critical access hospitals (Section 3001(b), p. 637)

28. Medicare value-based purchasing program for skilled nursing facilities (Section 3006(a), p. 666)

29. Medicare value-based purchasing program for home health agencies (Section 3006(b), p. 668)

30. Interagency Working Group on Health Care Quality (Section 3012, p. 688)

31. Grant program to develop health care quality measures (Section 3013, p. 693)

32. Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation (Section 3021, p. 712)

33. Medicare shared savings program (Section 3022, p. 728)

34. Medicare pilot program on payment bundling (Section 3023, p. 739)

35. Independence at home medical practice demonstration program (Section 3024, p. 752)

36. Program for use of patient safety organizations to reduce hospital readmission rates (Section 3025(b), p. 775)

37. Community-based care transitions program (Section 3026, p. 776)

38. Demonstration project for payment of complex diagnostic laboratory tests (Section 3113, p. 800)

39. Medicare hospice concurrent care demonstration project (Section 3140, p. 850)

40. Independent Payment Advisory Board (Section 3403, p. 982)

41. Consumer Advisory Council for Independent Payment Advisory Board (Section 3403, p. 1027)

42. Grant program for technical assistance to providers implementing health quality practices (Section 3501, p. 1043)

43. Grant program to establish interdisciplinary health teams (Section 3502, p. 1048)

44. Grant program to implement medication therapy management (Section 3503, p. 1055)

45. Grant program to support emergency care pilot programs (Section 3504, p. 1061)

46. Grant program to promote universal access to trauma services (Section 3505(b), p. 1081)

47. Grant program to develop and promote shared decision-making aids (Section 3506, p. 1088)

48. Grant program to support implementation of shared decision-making (Section 3506, p. 1091)

49. Grant program to integrate quality improvement in clinical education (Section 3508, p. 1095)

50. Health and Human Services Coordinating Committee on Women?s Health (Section 3509(a), p. 1098)

51. Centers for Disease Control Office of Women?s Health (Section 3509(b), p. 1102)

52. Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Office of Women?s Health (Section 3509(e), p. 1105)

53. Health Resources and Services Administration Office of Women?s Health (Section 3509(f), p. 1106)

54. Food and Drug Administration Office of Women?s Health (Section 3509(g), p. 1109)

55. National Prevention, Health Promotion, and Public Health Council (Section 4001, p. 1114)

56. Advisory Group on Prevention, Health Promotion, and Integrative and Public Health (Section 4001(f), p. 1117)

57. Prevention and Public Health Fund (Section 4002, p. 1121)

58. Community Preventive Services Task Force (Section 4003(b), p. 1126)

59. Grant program to support school-based health centers (Section 4101, p. 1135)

60. Grant program to promote research-based dental caries disease management (Section 4102, p. 1147)

61. Grant program for States to prevent chronic disease in Medicaid beneficiaries (Section 4108, p. 1174)

62. Community transformation grants (Section 4201, p. 1182)

63. Grant program to provide public health interventions (Section 4202, p. 1188)

64. Demonstration program of grants to improve child immunization rates (Section 4204(b), p. 1200)

65. Pilot program for risk-factor assessments provided through community health centers (Section 4206, p. 1215)

66. Grant program to increase epidemiology and laboratory capacity (Section 4304, p. 1233)

67. Interagency Pain Research Coordinating Committee (Section 4305, p. 1238)

68. National Health Care Workforce Commission (Section 5101, p. 1256)

69. Grant program to plan health care workforce development activities (Section 5102(c), p. 1275)

70. Grant program to implement health care workforce development activities (Section 5102(d), p. 1279)

71. Pediatric specialty loan repayment program (Section 5203, p. 1295)

72. Public Health Workforce Loan Repayment Program (Section 5204, p. 1300)

73. Allied Health Loan Forgiveness Program (Section 5205, p. 1305)

74. Grant program to provide mid-career training for health professionals (Section 5206, p. 1307)

75. Grant program to fund nurse-managed health clinics (Section 5208, p. 1310)

76. Grant program to support primary care training programs (Section 5301, p. 1315)

77. Grant program to fund training for direct care workers (Section 5302, p. 1322)

78. Grant program to develop dental training programs (Section 5303, p. 1325)

79. Demonstration program to increase access to dental health care in underserved communities (Section 5304, p. 1331)

80. Grant program to promote geriatric education centers (Section 5305, p. 1334)

81. Grant program to promote health professionals entering geriatrics (Section 5305, p. 1339)

82. Grant program to promote training in mental and behavioral health (Section 5306, p. 1344)

83. Grant program to promote nurse retention programs (Section 5309, p. 1354)

84. Student loan forgiveness for nursing school faculty (Section 5311(b), p. 1360)

85. Grant program to promote positive health behaviors and outcomes (Section 5313, p. 1364)

[CBT]

86. Public Health Sciences Track for medical students (Section 5315, p. 1372)

87. Primary Care Extension Program to educate providers (Section 5405, p. 1404)

88. Grant program for demonstration projects to address health workforce shortage needs (Section 5507, p. 1442)

89. Grant program for demonstration projects to develop training programs for home health aides (Section 5507, p. 1447)

90. Grant program to establish new primary care residency programs (Section 5508(a), p. 1458)

91. Program of payments to teaching health centers that sponsor medical residency training (Section 5508(c), p. 1462)

92. Graduate nurse education demonstration program (Section 5509, p. 1472)

93. Grant program to establish demonstration projects for community-based mental health settings (Section 5604, p. 1486)

94. Commission on Key National Indicators (Section 5605, p. 1489)

95. Quality assurance and performance improvement program for skilled nursing facilities (Section 6102, p. 1554)

96. Special focus facility program for skilled nursing facilities (Section 6103(a)(3), p. 1561)

97. Special focus facility program for nursing facilities (Section 6103(b)(3), p. 1568)

98. National independent monitor pilot program for skilled nursing facilities and nursing facilities (Section 6112, p. 1589)

99. Demonstration projects for nursing facilities involved in the culture change movement (Section 6114, p. 1597)

100. Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (Section 6301, p. 1619)

101. Standing methodology committee for Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (Section 6301, p. 1629)

102. Board of Governors for Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (Section 6301, p. 1638)

103. Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Trust Fund (Section 6301(e), p. 1656)

104. Elder Justice Coordinating Council (Section 6703, p. 1773)

105. Advisory Board on Elder Abuse, Neglect, and Exploitation (Section 6703, p. 1776)

106. Grant program to create elder abuse forensic centers (Section 6703, p. 1783)

107. Grant program to promote continuing education for long-term care staffers (Section 6703, p. 1787)

108. Grant program to improve management practices and training (Section 6703, p. 1788)

109. Grant program to subsidize costs of electronic health records (Section 6703, p. 1791)

110. Grant program to promote adult protective services (Section 6703, p. 1796)

111. Grant program to conduct elder abuse detection and prevention (Section 6703, p. 1798)

112. Grant program to support long-term care ombudsmen (Section 6703, p. 1800)

113. National Training Institute for long-term care surveyors (Section 6703, p. 1806)

114. Grant program to fund State surveys of long-term care residences (Section 6703, p. 1809)

115. CLASS Independence Fund (Section 8002, p. 1926)

116. CLASS Independence Fund Board of Trustees (Section 8002, p. 1927)

117. CLASS Independence Advisory Council (Section 8002, p. 1931)

118. Personal Care Attendants Workforce Advisory Panel (Section 8002(c), p. 1938)

119. Multi-state health plans offered by Office of Personnel Management (Section 10104(p), p. 2086)

120. Advisory board for multi-state health plans (Section 10104(p), p. 2094)

121. Pregnancy Assistance Fund (Section 10212, p. 2164)

122. Value-based purchasing program for ambulatory surgical centers (Section 10301, p. 2176)

123. Demonstration project for payment adjustments to home health services (Section 10315, p. 2200)

124. Pilot program for care of individuals in environmental emergency declaration areas (Section 10323, p. 2223)

125. Grant program to screen at-risk individuals for environmental health conditions (Section 10323(b), p. 2231)

126. Pilot programs to implement value-based purchasing (Section 10326, p. 2242)

127. Grant program to support community-based collaborative care networks (Section 10333, p. 2265)

128. Centers for Disease Control Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)

129. Health Resources and Services Administration Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)

130. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)

131. Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)

132. Food and Drug Administration Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)

133. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)

134. Grant program to promote small business wellness programs (Section 10408, p. 2285)

135. Cures Acceleration Network (Section 10409, p. 2289)

136. Cures Acceleration Network Review Board (Section 10409, p. 2291)

137. Grant program for Cures Acceleration Network (Section 10409, p. 2297)

138. Grant program to promote centers of excellence for depression (Section 10410, p. 2304)

139. Advisory committee for young women?s breast health awareness education campaign (Section 10413, p. 2322)

140. Grant program to provide assistance to provide information to young women with breast cancer (Section 10413, p. 2326)

141. Interagency Access to Health Care in Alaska Task Force (Section 10501, p. 2329)

142. Grant program to train nurse practitioners as primary care providers (Section 10501(e), p. 2332)

143. Grant program for community-based diabetes prevention (Section 10501(g), p. 2337)

144. Grant program for providers who treat a high percentage of medically underserved populations (Section 10501(k), p. 2343)

145. Grant program to recruit students to practice in underserved communities (Section 10501(l), p. 2344)

146. Community Health Center Fund (Section 10503, p. 2355)

147. Demonstration project to provide access to health care for the uninsured at reduced fees (Section 10504, p. 2357)

148. Demonstration program to explore alternatives to tort litigation (Section 10607, p. 2369)

149. Indian Health demonstration program for chronic shortages of health professionals (S. 1790, Section 112, p. 24)*

150. Office of Indian Men?s Health (S. 1790, Section 136, p. 71)*

151. Indian Country modular component facilities demonstration program (S. 1790, Section 146, p. 108)*

152. Indian mobile health stations demonstration program (S. 1790, Section 147, p. 111)*

153. Office of Direct Service Tribes (S. 1790, Section 172, p. 151)*

154. Indian Health Service mental health technician training program (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 173)*

155. Indian Health Service program for treatment of child sexual abuse victims (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 192)*

156. Indian Health Service program for treatment of domestic violence and sexual abuse (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 194)*

157. Indian youth telemental health demonstration project (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 204)*

158. Indian youth life skills demonstration project (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 220)*

159. Indian Health Service Director of HIV/AIDS Prevention and Treatment (S. 1790, Section 199B, p. 258)*

[Phrog_gunner]

Hey you forgot about the bureaucracies needed for the takeover of educational loans that was included in Health Care.

[CBT]

Hey you forgot about the bureaucracies needed for the takeover of educational loans that was included in Health Care.
Hmmm....it seems you know too much.....there's going to be a knock on your door in 3, 2, 1....

[FordNut]

Won't be long and there will be a couple of federal employees for each employee in the private sector. Sounds pretty economical since the federal employees have higher salaries and a more extensive (expensive) benefits package.

[LIGHTNIN1]

CBT you know too much about the health bill. That is a lot of information. Expect a knock from one of the proper authorities. You are not suppose to know that information.:beer:

[Leadfoot281]

Or we could let the free market handle everything....

http://townhall.com/columnists/AnnCoulter/2010/03/31/prescriptions_for_disaster_now _covered_under_obamacare

[Phrog_gunner]

Hmmm....it seems you know too much.....there's going to be a knock on your door in 3, 2, 1....

Well Pelosi told us we could find out about it AFTER it passed.

[CBT]

Well Pelosi told us we could find out about it AFTER it passed.

Isn't that how most painful things are examined, after we've passed them?

[Phrog_gunner]

Isn't that how most painful things are examined, after we've passed them?

I wonder how much corn we are gonna find.

[CBT]

I wonder how much corn we are gonna find.

Corn is good, we can turn it into gasahol or whatever. Everyone, start saving your corn!

[Phrog_gunner]

Corn is good, we can turn it into gasahol or whatever. Everyone, start saving your corn!

I think you forgot the Feds are paying ppl NOT to produce corn. I want to be that kind of farmer, get paid to NOT produce something.

[LeoVampire]

Corn is good, we can turn it into gasahol or whatever. Everyone, start saving your corn!

Every bit of it you eat seems to come back out the way it went in! Do you plan to save that too?

:lol:

[FordNut]

Oh, and they're talking about designating several million more acres into national park/wilderness areas, taking them off the tax roles for the states.

[Leadfoot281]

I want to be that kind of farmer, get paid to NOT produce something.

You probably don't. It's like earning $2/hr instead of $10. (consider it to be a form of unemployment). As much as I hate Fedzilla, this program does keep people working. How? Well it's not easy to go out and buy $4,000,000 in land and then drop another $1,000,000+ on machinery just to earn 80k/year.

Every farmer in America would make more money by selling everything they have and just putting it in bonds.

[LIGHTNIN1]

Do like Steve Martin grow dental floss and then get paid for not growing it.:rofl:

[Paul T. Casey]

25. State allotments for grants to promote personal responsibility education programs (Section 2953, p. 596)



How did this get in there?

[Phrog_gunner]

How did this get in there?

They are EVERYwhere now. :(

[SC Cheesehead]

"QUEBEC...tax hikes in the recent provincial budget...The budget proposes the gradual introduction, over two years, of a 15-per-cent sales tax, after harmonization of the Quebec sales tax with the federal goods and services tax. The first of four one-cent-a-litre increases in the fuel tax is already in effect...The government has proposed a flat $200 charge for health care plus a $25 user fee for doctor's visits..."


Yup, nothing like free Canadian health care, eh?


http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Thousands+take+streets+protest +against+Charest+hikes/2789628/story.html#ixzz0kyp7K4Zp

[Phrog_gunner]

"QUEBEC...tax hikes in the recent provincial budget...The budget proposes the gradual introduction, over two years, of a 15-per-cent sales tax, after harmonization of the Quebec sales tax with the federal goods and services tax. The first of four one-cent-a-litre increases in the fuel tax is already in effect...The government has proposed a flat $200 charge for health care plus a $25 user fee for doctor's visits..."


Yup, nothing like free Canadian health care, eh?


http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Thousands+take+streets+protest +against+Charest+hikes/2789628/story.html#ixzz0kyp7K4Zp


It's simple economics. The wait times to see the DR are MUCH longer in Canada so they need extra money to pay for the extra air conditioning the patients use and water the people drink waiting to see the Dr. The care is also much better in Canada, they are just jumping the border to get treatment to "share the wealth" with us Americans. :shake:

[LIGHTNIN1]

This "Share the Wealth" philosophy is a real loser, but look at the "Source." Yahoo had an article this morning about the doctor shortages already. Not enough getting through school. My state has less than 1 doctor per 1000 patients for primary care. Makes you feel comfortable. And with this health bill there is no incentive to go into the medical field. I am shopping for a firstaid kit.

[CBT]

This "Share the Wealth" philosophy is a real loser, but look at the "Source." Yahoo had an article this morning about the doctor shortages already. Not enough getting through school. My state has less than 1 doctor per 1000 patients for primary care. Makes you feel comfortable. And with this health bill there is no incentive to go into the medical field. I am shopping for a firstaid kit.
We don't need to make new doctors here, we import them from India, and nurses from the Phillipines.

[Dr Caleb]

Yup, nothing like free Canadian health care, eh?


Who said it was free? And who said the budget increase was to cover healthcare costs? Eh.

Quebec has been running budget deficits for decades. About time they did something to change that.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:oXFuHwY4d9e_gM:ht tp://www.hep.uiuc.edu/home/g-gollin/redherring.gif

[SC Cheesehead]

Who said it was free? And who said the budget increase was to cover healthcare costs? Eh.

Quebec has been running budget deficits for decades. About time they did something to change that.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:oXFuHwY4d9e_gM:ht tp://www.hep.uiuc.edu/home/g-gollin/redherring.gif

Yeah, along with New Brunswick, and Ontario, and....

[Ozark Marauder]

Support for Repeal of Health Care Plan Up To 58%

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/march_2010/health_care_law

[Phrog_gunner]

Support for Repeal of Health Care Plan Up To 58%

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/march_2010/health_care_law

That's racist you fear mongerer!!! :depress:

[Ozark Marauder]

There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. – Robert Heinlein

[Bluerauder]

That's racist you fear mongerer!!! :depress:

What a damn dufus. Do you ever have anything intelligent to say ..... at all. :rolleyes:

[Phrog_gunner]

What a damn doofus. Do you ever have anything intelligent to say ..... at all. :rolleyes:

No, not really. Next time could you at least correctly spell your insults? Thank you, come again.

[Bluerauder]

No, not really. Next time could you at least correctly spell your insults? Thank you, come again.
I figured that it would be spelled correctly on your membership card. :P

[Phrog_gunner]

I figured that it would be spelled correctly on your membership card. :P

It's usually spelled Devil's Advocate.

[SC Cheesehead]

http://dailycaller.com/2010/04/19/congress-may-get-fined-by-its-own-health-care-law/#ixzz0le4J7HNe

"Congress may be fined tens of millions of dollars a year under its own health-care law, in part because the bill dumps members of Congress and their staffs from their current health-care plans.
But no one really knows for sure what the bill does, not even the experts. For instance, exactly who qualifies as an “employer” — and therefore is subject to fines up to $3,000 per employee — is undefined in the bill.
If Congress were subject to a $3,000 fine for each of its employees, it would need to shell out approximately $50 million each year to Uncle Sam..."


C.Y.C.B.I. :shake:

[LIGHTNIN1]

http://dailycaller.com/2010/04/19/congress-may-get-fined-by-its-own-health-care-law/#ixzz0le4J7HNe

"Congress may be fined tens of millions of dollars a year under its own health-care law, in part because the bill dumps members of Congress and their staffs from their current health-care plans.
But no one really knows for sure what the bill does, not even the experts. For instance, exactly who qualifies as an “employer” — and therefore is subject to fines up to $3,000 per employee — is undefined in the bill.
If Congress were subject to a $3,000 fine for each of its employees, it would need to shell out approximately $50 million each year to Uncle Sam..."


C.Y.C.B.I. :shake:

:rofl::laugh: And people actually trust these people with their lives? Sheesh.

[FordNut]

http://dailycaller.com/2010/04/19/congress-may-get-fined-by-its-own-health-care-law/#ixzz0le4J7HNe

"Congress may be fined tens of millions of dollars a year under its own health-care law, in part because the bill dumps members of Congress and their staffs from their current health-care plans.
But no one really knows for sure what the bill does, not even the experts. For instance, exactly who qualifies as an “employer” — and therefore is subject to fines up to $3,000 per employee — is undefined in the bill.
If Congress were subject to a $3,000 fine for each of its employees, it would need to shell out approximately $50 million each year to Uncle Sam..."


C.Y.C.B.I. :shake:

No problem, they will just pass those costs on to the taxpayer.

[LIGHTNIN1]

Maybe someone on here can answer this question as I have searched and have not found a definitive answer. I always thought Congress wrote legislation. It seems these days that has changed and anyone can write it and Congress passes it. Since Congress had not read the bill when they voted on it,even Pelosi said we have to pass it to find out what is in it, and they did not know what it contained, question is ,WHO WROTE IT?:dunno:

[Paul T. Casey]

Congresses function is to enact legislation for the president to sign into law, or veto, which is then judged and deemed to be Constitutional by the Supreme Court if necessary. Anyone can propose a law to Congress. As to who authored this particular bill, I'll do some checking.

[CBT]

Usually lobbyists write bills for what they want, then they staple ********s of money to it and hand it to a Congressman/woman.



Maybe someone on here can answer this question as I have searched and have not found a definitive answer. I always thought Congress wrote legislation. It seems these days that has changed and anyone can write it and Congress passes it. Since Congress had not read the bill when they voted on it,even Pelosi said we have to pass it to find out what is in it, and they did not know what it contained, question is ,WHO WROTE IT?:dunno:

[SC Cheesehead]

Looks like folks are starting to wise up.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/64746

A new national poll shows support for repealing President Obama’s health care reform law has not abated in the month since its passage, and actually ticked up.

“Support for repeal of the recently-passed national health care plan remains strong as most voters believe the law will increase the cost of care, hurt quality and push the federal budget deficit even higher,” said the new release from the polling firm Rasmussen Reports...

[FordNut]

Unfortunately the November elections probably won't flip the representatives enough to override BO's veto, so we'll have to deal with it at least until he's replaced in 2012.

[MrBluGruv]

Looks like folks are starting to wise up.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/64746

A new national poll shows support for repealing President Obama’s health care reform law has not abated in the month since its passage, and actually ticked up.

“Support for repeal of the recently-passed national health care plan remains strong as most voters believe the law will increase the cost of care, hurt quality and push the federal budget deficit even higher,” said the new release from the polling firm Rasmussen Reports...

Didn't they just recently find some massive oversight that increases the cost of this thing by millions? (oops much?)

My favorite part of those news stories was the genuine surprise by people at this finding.

[Egon Spengler]

Wow... Popular thread that I have ignored! Seeing as how it is a CBT thread I feel compelled to post here and de-rail it. But I won't... just surprised this is still open! I haven't read a single page of it because I don't have much knowledge of the subject and can bring nothing to the table. Glad it is still open and that people are able to be civil and keep the thread open. Back to ignoring the thread again....

Post Count +1

[FordNut]

Didn't they just recently find some massive oversight that increases the cost of this thing by millions? (oops much?)

My favorite part of those news stories was the genuine surprise by people at this finding.

It was more like hundreds of BILLIONS. About a half-trillion accounting gimmick they used to make it look like the price tag was under $1 trillion.

BTW, as if anybody thought otherwise healthcare and health insurance costs are going up for all of us!

[Bluerauder]

BTW, as if anybody thought otherwise healthcare and health insurance costs are going up for all of us!

Absolutely. We are starting to see the backlash already. My health care premium just jumped another 25% less than 2 months after the passage of Health Care Reform.

[LIGHTNIN1]

Absolutely. We are starting to see the backlash already. My health care premium just jumped another 25% less than 2 months after the passage of Health Care Reform.

The estimates by some of the insurance companies that were out before the bill passed , were the premiums would triple in Jan, just after the election of course.:mad2:

[SC Cheesehead]

It was more like hundreds of BILLIONS. About a half-trillion accounting gimmick they used to make it look like the price tag was under $1 trillion.

BTW, as if anybody thought otherwise healthcare and health insurance costs are going up for all of us!

But Brian, he SAID I wouldn't have to pay more!!! :rolleyes:

On a related note; my wife works in a GP clinic as a lab tech and had a patient in the week after the Health Care Obamanation passed. Terry finished up the requested tests, checked off the paperwork and gave it to the person to take up to the cashier for processing.

Person protested, saying, "I don't have to pay anything, they passed the health care bill, didn't you hear?"

I don't know how many of you know my wife, but let's just say she lost her "professional demeanor" when she responded to this character...:mad2:


C.Y.C.B.I. :shake:

[kernie]

Absolutely. We are starting to see the backlash already. My health care premium just jumped another 25% less than 2 months after the passage of Health Care Reform.
Just how much do you guys pay a year for decent coverage?
I truly have no desire to debate this issue but i have read the whole thread {can't sleep quite often} and for the life of me can't understand why half {the LOUD half} the US are so dead set {ooops, bad choise of words} on the worst, most corrupt, cruel health care system in the western world?

I read this article this am,

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2010/04/28/health-life-expectancy-canada-us.html

I mean the facts are the facts folks.
My uncle had a bad stroke about 8 weeks ago, just starting to get some movement back on his left side, he has recieved A+ care since then that i would challenge anyone anywhere at ANY price to better. Of course the family has been hurting since then but one thing that is not a factor is dollars.

Anyway thats just my honest view, i'm going to step back out of here, very slowly trying to look as big as i can.

Have a good one guys,
kernie.

[CBT]

Just how much do you guys pay a year for decent coverage?
I truly have no desire to debate this issue but i have read the whole thread {can't sleep quite often} and for the life of me can't understand why half {the LOUD half} the US are so dead set {ooops, bad choise of words} on the worst, most corrupt, cruel health care system in the western world?

I read this article this am,

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2010/04/28/health-life-expectancy-canada-us.html

I mean the facts are the facts folks.
My uncle had a bad stroke about 8 weeks ago, just starting to get some movement back on his left side, he has recieved A+ care since then that i would challenge anyone anywhere at ANY price to better. Of course the family has been hurting since then but one thing that is not a factor is dollars.

Anyway thats just my honest view, i'm going to step back out of here, very slowly trying to look as big as i can.

Have a good one guys,
kernie.
Interesting, I hope he fully recovers:beer:
I can believe that article, especially the part about 19 year old Canadians being better off. We send all of ours off to wars.

[SC Cheesehead]

Just how much do you guys pay a year for decent coverage?
I truly have no desire to debate this issue but i have read the whole thread {can't sleep quite often} and for the life of me can't understand why half {the LOUD half} the US are so dead set {ooops, bad choise of words} on the worst, most corrupt, cruel health care system in the western world?
kernie.

It's actually over half, last I heard, closer to 57% :rolleyes:

Yeah, it's a wonder any of us survive the day, must be luck I guess...:cool4:

[Paul T. Casey]

because I don't have much knowledge of the subject and can bring nothing to the table.

Post Count +1

Nothing personal, but this is why we get these sort of things rammed down our throats. As a whole, we have been "dumbed down" to the point where we don't pay any attention to what the hacks in office do to us on a daily basis. Buzzwords, slogans, and gimmicks carry more votes than facts lately.

[LIGHTNIN1]

Kernie,
You said you read the whole thread. Not saying you did not but you might want to skim through it again. Our politicians are not honest like yours.The same thing will not happen here. We have experience with these kind of programs,They are all broke.Medicare will have to be cut back big time as part of this new program. You cannot compare Canada with the US. Not the same ball of wax.

[SC Cheesehead]

Kernie,
You said you read the whole thread. Not saying you did not but you might want to skim through it again. Our politicians are not honest like yours.The same thing will not happen here. We have experience with these kind of programs,They are all broke.Medicare will have to be cut back big time as part of this new program. You cannot compare Canada with the US. Not the same ball of wax.

Amen!

And BTW, Obamacare isn't about fixing healthcare, what it IS all about is growing the governmental powerbase by taking over nearly 20% of the US economy.

See if any of this sounds familiar:

"[S]ocialists advocate a completely classless society, where the government controls all means of production and distribution of goods. Socialists believe this control is necessary to eliminate competition among the people and put everyone on a level playing field. Socialism is also characterized by the absence of private property. The idea is that if everyone works, everyone will reap the same benefits and prosper equally. Therefore, everyone receives equal earnings, medical care and other necessities..."
http://money.howstuffworks.com/socialism1.htm

This is one of the big flaws with socialistic concepts applied to the US welfare state. Not everyone is expected to work, yet those that don't will benefit. Thus, we're no longer looking at socialism, but rather the movement toward a communistic society:

"In a perfect world, everyone would have food and shelter, and a true utopian society would be devoid of sexism, racism and other forms of oppression. But for most of the world's population, this perfect society just isn't possible...Communism is designed to allow the poor to rise up and attain financial and social status equal to that of the middle-class landowners. In order for everyone to achieve equality, wealth is redistributed so that the members of the upper class are brought down to the same financial and social level as the middle class. Communism also requires that all means of production be controlled by the state. "
http://history.howstuffworks.com/cold-war/communism.htm

Control, industry, control the economy and you control the people. That's where we're headed, folks.

C.Y.C.B.I.

[kernie]

Kernie,
You said you read the whole thread. Not saying you did not but you might want to skim through it again. Our politicians are not honest like yours.The same thing will not happen here. We have experience with these kind of programs,They are all broke.Medicare will have to be cut back big time as part of this new program. You cannot compare Canada with the US. Not the same ball of wax.
I did see the corrupt politician type comments, i guess i wrote that off as the usual complaints that politicians everywhere face. Perhaps i dont see or understand the extent of the honesty problem in government stateside.

What i do see and understand is the uglyness of large heathcare and thier pre-existing BS, acting like bullies making obsene profits, they do need to have a controlling force to police them. Same as wall street and the bankers with that insane bailout, you just cant let these types run amuck. I dont think any of our banks even had a losing quarter, why, stricter government controls. I'm sure they were kicking and screaming wanting less controls, now they probably saying thanks for the restrictions.

Anyway i really am going to clam up now.

BTW, thanks CBT, they say he should mostly recover, he is a great guy, tough with a strong will and loving wife and kids.

[SC Cheesehead]

I did see the corrupt politician type comments, i guess i wrote that off as the usual complaints that politicians everywhere face. Perhaps i dont see or understand the extent of the honesty problem in government stateside.

What i do see and understand is the uglyness of large heathcare and thier pre-existing BS, acting like bullies making obsene profits, they do need to have a controlling force to police them. Same as wall street and the bankers with that insane bailout, you just cant let these types run amuck. I dont think any of our banks even had a losing quarter, why, stricter government controls. I'm sure they were kicking and screaming wanting less controls, now they probably saying thanks for the restrictions.

Anyway i really am going to clam up now.

BTW, thanks CBT, they say he should mostly recover, he is a great guy, tough with a strong will and loving wife and kids.

Yeah, obscene profits. My wife works for a large regional health care provider, their average profit margin the past five years has been around 2%...
Yep, and more controls are definitely needed. Their doctors are already spending 30-40% of their time processing regulatory paperwork, this obviously improves patient quality of care. :rolleyes:

Two words: Atlas Shrugged.

[kernie]

Yeah, obscene profits. My wife works for a large regional health care provider, their average profit margin the past five years has been around 2%...
Yep, and more controls are definitely needed. Their doctors are already spending 30-40% of their time processing regulatory paperwork, this obviously improves patient quality of care. :rolleyes:

Two words: Atlas Shrugged.
When i say healthcare provider i mean the health INSURANCE industry, my bad, not sure if you are talking insurance.

Anyway i'm going to leave now before someone calls me a commie!

[SC Cheesehead]

When i say healthcare provider i mean the health INSURANCE industry, my bad, not sure if you are talking insurance.

Anyway i'm going to leave now before someone calls me a commie!

"...the health insurance industry ranks somewhere like 89th in terms of its profit margin compared to other industries. The average profit margin for health insurance companies is just 2.2%. Reality doesn't matter - perception does, and the Democrats have created the perception that health insurance companies are making money hand-over-fist."

http://boortz.com/nealz_nuze/2010/04/the-latest-on-obamacare.html

[kernie]

"...the health insurance industry ranks somewhere like 89th in terms of its profit margin compared to other industries. The average profit margin for health insurance companies is just 2.2%. Reality doesn't matter - perception does, and the Democrats have created the perception that health insurance companies are making money hand-over-fist."

http://boortz.com/nealz_nuze/2010/04/the-latest-on-obamacare.html
OK, the number i had in my head was more like 25%, cant remember how that info got there......hmm, hope it wasn't the movie sicko! hehe.

Gotta go!
Really mean it this time!

[LIGHTNIN1]

"...the health insurance industry ranks somewhere like 89th in terms of its profit margin compared to other industries. The average profit margin for health insurance companies is just 2.2%. Reality doesn't matter - perception does, and the Democrats have created the perception that health insurance companies are making money hand-over-fist."

http://boortz.com/nealz_nuze/2010/04/the-latest-on-obamacare.html

If you notice everyone is an enemy of those presently in power. The insurance companies are demonized, car companies, financial companies, the state of Arizona, tea partiers, rich people, people of different colors, and the list gets longer each day. In fact everyone is on the list except them.

[Joe Walsh]

I'll review my prior posts in this thread as to why I don't like this program:

The Federal Government running anything that was once run by the private sector is a bad thing!

They can't run anything efficiently and effectively...
they can only run programs into the ground while burning our tax dollars at an incredible rate.

I give them a 'bye' on the National Military because that must be run by the Federal government.
(and when I see something get blown up, I feel that my tax doller has been put to good use.:D)

[SC Cheesehead]

If you notice everyone is an enemy of those presently in power. The insurance companies are demonized, car companies, financial companies, the state of Arizona, tea partiers, rich people, people of different colors, and the list gets longer each day. In fact everyone is on the list except them.

Hmmm, does this sound familiar?

"An organizer must stir up dissatisfaction and discontent .."
"Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty ..."
"Ridicule is man's most potent weapon ..."
"Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."

The above excerpted from "Rules for Radicals" - Saul Alinsky

Who's Saul Alinsky? "He is generally considered to be the founder of modern community organizing.."

In his community organizing days Obama taught workshops in Chicago on the Alinsky method for oganizing and mobilizing social change.

what a coinky dink...C.Y.C.B.I.

[LeoVampire]

"I mean the facts are the facts folks.
My uncle had a bad stroke about 8 weeks ago, just starting to get some movement back on his left side, he has recieved A+ care since then that i would challenge anyone anywhere at ANY price to better. Of course the family has been hurting since then but one thing that is not a factor is dollars.

Anyway thats just my honest view, i'm going to step back out of here, very slowly trying to look as big as i can.

Have a good one guys,
kernie.[/quote]

Just wanted to say sorry about your Uncle's stroke I am staying out of the rest of it! I hope he does much better and gains a lot of functionality back over time!

[kernie]

If you notice everyone is an enemy of those presently in power. The insurance companies are demonized, car companies, financial companies, the state of Arizona, tea partiers, rich people, people of different colors, and the list gets longer each day. In fact everyone is on the list except them.
1-Insurance companies, now these guys need a crackdown everywhere, not just on health insurance, try collecting on that disability claim, ask some\most folks in katrina's path how they feel about home insurance, i could go on forever about these clowns.

2-Car companies, they had thier moments, took some heat, GM is advertising here in ontario that they have repaid thier government loans 5 years early, bravo, the big 3 are making better cars, positive progress!

3-Financial companies, here they make fat steady profits but have come out of the last couple years smelling like a rose compared to the disaster americans have seen, the president is now trying to put some controls in place, needed and a GOOD thing!

4-Arizona, well they are holding our winnepeg jets hostage!!!

5-Tea partiers, the thought of sara palin as the next president makes me think they are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

[CBT]

1-Insurance companies, now these guys need a crackdown everywhere, not just on health insurance, try collecting on that disability claim, ask some\most folks in katrina's path how they feel about home insurance, i could go on forever about these clowns.

2-Car companies, they had thier moments, took some heat, GM is advertising here in ontario that they have repaid thier government loans 5 years early, bravo, the big 3 are making better cars, positive progress!

3-Financial companies, here they make fat steady profits but have come out of the last couple years smelling like a rose compared to the disaster americans have seen, the president is now trying to put some controls in place, needed and a GOOD thing!

4-Arizona, well they are holding our winnepeg jets hostage!!!

5-Tea partiers, the thought of sara palin as the next president makes me think they are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

Yeah that's not going to happen. Too ditzy. But I am a tea partier :beer:

[SC Cheesehead]

1-Insurance companies, now these guys need a crackdown everywhere, not just on health insurance, try collecting on that disability claim, ask some\most folks in katrina's path how they feel about home insurance, i could go on forever about these clowns.

2-Car companies, they had thier moments, took some heat, GM is advertising here in ontario that they have repaid thier government loans 5 years early, bravo, the big 3 are making better cars, positive progress!

3-Financial companies, here they make fat steady profits but have come out of the last couple years smelling like a rose compared to the disaster americans have seen, the president is now trying to put some controls in place, needed and a GOOD thing!

4-Arizona, well they are holding our winnepeg jets hostage!!!

5-Tea partiers, the thought of sara palin as the next president makes me think they are not the sharpest tools in the shed.

Yeah, those guys are making a killing, we need to get 'em line, knock down a few pegs, show 'em who's boss; they're just making WAY too much money...

Industry Rank - Industry - 2008 Profits as % of Revenues
1Network and Other Communications Equipment (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/209/index.html)20.4
2I (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/225/index.html)nternet Services and Retailing19.4
3Pharmaceuticals (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/21/index.html)19.3
4Medical Products and Equipment (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/195/index.html)16.3
5Railroads (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/154/index.html)12.6
6Financial Data Services (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/227/index.html)11.7
7Mining, Crude-Oil production (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/18/index.html)11.5
8Securities (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/187/index.html)10.7
9Oil and Gas Equipment, Services (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/218/index.html)10.2
10Scientific, Photographic, and Control Equipment (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/24/index.html)9.9
11Household and Personal Products (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/217/index.html)8.7
12Utilities: Gas and Electric (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/143/index.html)8.7
13Aerospace and Defense (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/207/index.html)7.6
14Food Services (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/147/index.html)7.1
15Industrial Machinery (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/231/index.html)6.9
16Food Consumer Products (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/198/index.html)6.7
17Electronics, Electrical Equipment (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/9/index.html)6.5
18Commercial Banks (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/30/index.html)5.2
19Telecommunications (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/157/index.html)5.1
20Chemicals (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/7/index.html)5.0
21Construction and Farm Machinery (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/230/index.html)5.0
22Insurance: Life, Health (stock) (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/183/index.html)4.6
23Information Technology Services (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/226/index.html)4.5
24Computers, Office Equipment (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/8/index.html)4.3
25Metals (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/17/index.html)3.9
26Wholesalers: Diversified (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/213/index.html)3.5
27Insurance: Property and Casualty (stock) (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/182/index.html)3.3
28Specialty Retailers (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/156/index.html)3.2
29General Merchandisers (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/149/index.html)3.2
30Health Care: Pharmacy and Other Services (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/224/index.html)3.0
31Packaging, Containers (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/219/index.html)3.0
32Beverages (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/5/index.html)2.9
33Engineering, Construction (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/144/index.html)2.7
34Health Care: Medical Facilities (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/222/index.html)2.4
35Health Care: Insurance and Managed Care (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/223/index.html)2.2
36Petroleum Refining (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/20/index.html)2.1
37Food and Drug Stores (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/148/index.html)1.5
38Pipelines (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/153/index.html)1.5
39Wholesalers: Health Care (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/212/index.html)1.3
40Semiconductors and Other Electronic Components (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/208/index.html)1.0
41Energy (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/165/index.html)0.9
42Home Equipment, Furnishings (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/216/index.html)0.7
43Food Production (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/197/index.html)0.6
44Wholesalers: Electronics and Office Equipment (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/210/index.html)-0.3
45Diversified Financials (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/31/index.html)-0.6
46Motor Vehicles and Parts (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/19/index.html)-0.7
47Insurance: Life, Health (mutual) (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/185/index.html)-3.0
48Hotels, Casinos, Resorts (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/176/index.html)-4.5
49Automotive Retailing, Services (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/177/index.html)-7.9
50Forest and Paper Products (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/11/index.html)-9.6
51Entertainment (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/145/index.html)-10.0
52Real Estate (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/164/index.html)-13.4
53Airlines (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/industries/141/index.html)-13.5

With the exception of the Securities industry (Merill Lynch, Charles Schwab, etc.), that indicates profit margins in excess of 10%, the "evil" banks, insurance companies, and health care providers all show margins of 5% or less, with several showing negative margins.

So tell me, what is a "crackdown" or additional "controls" on these industries going to accomplish, other than score political points with the dumbmasses?


Like I said in an earlier post, there's perception, and then there's reality.

[LIGHTNIN1]

Where we need a crackdown is where the problem is,Washington. Why people think that once a person is elected to any political office they are automatically an expert on all subjects, the smartest people on the planet, can do no wrong, and are going to help them out by passing useless legislation. The reverse is true of course. Every time something happens they all get on TV and are going to be the Superheroes riding in on a white horse and save us.NOPE. Each time they pass a lot of new laws that cost us all money and do nothing to help the problem. How many times have we had major financial crises, they pass laws where it will not happen again and 5 years later, guess what? It happens again. You can predict it.
These industries we have been talking about need no new laws. They are not the problem. You can write all the laws you want but nothing will change.The Problem is Washington and they are the ones that cause the problems and profit from them.:snoopy:

[kernie]

OK cheesehead, you win.

And now you have your reality.

[Paul T. Casey]

Cheesehead beat me to it with the chart (from CNN, you know one of those ultra right wing news agencies). FWIW, I tend to believe that in percentage of profit margin, Coca Cola is about the tops (product wise). IIRC something like 900% on that can of soda you drink.

[SC Cheesehead]

Where we need a crackdown is where the problem is,Washington. Why people think that once a person is elected to any political office they are automatically an expert on all subjects, the smartest people on the planet, can do no wrong, and are going to help them out by passing useless legislation. The reverse is true of course. Every time something happens they all get on TV and are going to be the Superheroes riding in on a white horse and save us.NOPE. Each time they pass a lot of new laws that cost us all money and do nothing to help the problem. How many times have we had major financial crises, they pass laws where it will not happen again and 5 years later, guess what? It happens again. You can predict it.
These industries we have been talking about need no new laws. They are not the problem. You can write all the laws you want but nothing will change.The Problem is Washington and they are the ones that cause the problems and profit from them.:snoopy:


OK cheesehead, you win.

And now you have your reality.

kernie,

Not trying to have a "win or lose" discussion, just pointing out some facts that often get obfuscated under tons of mis-information.

What LIGHTNIN1 says is pretty much spot on. I am a stauch advocate of market based economy, and if the government would butt out and let natural economic forces come into play, a good portion of these "crises" would sort themselves out.

As Joe Walsh pointed out earlier, there is NO government agency or program that can do ANYTHING better than a private entity.

At the end of the day, the most effective federal government is the one that provides a uniform currency for economic exchange, and that provides for the common defense; nothing more.

[Paul T. Casey]

At the end of the day, the most effective federal government is the one that provides a uniform currency for economic exchange, and that provides for the common defense; nothing more.

Quoted just because it's so darn quotable, and true.

[Joe Walsh]

At the end of the day, the most effective federal government is the one that provides a uniform currency for economic exchange, and that provides for the common defense; nothing more.


Quoted just because it's so darn quotable, and true.

+1!

I'm not as smart as Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi, but I believe that is what the drafters of the Constitution had in mind.

[kernie]

kernie,

Not trying to have a "win or lose" discussion, just pointing out some facts that often get obfuscated under tons of mis-information.

What LIGHTNIN1 says is pretty much spot on. I am a stauch advocate of market based economy, and if the government would butt out and let natural economic forces come into play, a good portion of these "crises" would sort themselves out.

As Joe Walsh pointed out earlier, there is NO government agency or program that can do ANYTHING better than a private entity.

At the end of the day, the most effective federal government is the one that provides a uniform currency for economic exchange, and that provides for the common defense; nothing more.


Healthcare, how do you feel about having such dismal stats compared to the rest of the western world despite spending twice as much or more per person? How can you possibly defend the past record?
"no government agency or programthat can do ANYTHING better than a private entity"
How about everyones government health program is better, can you really argue that? I know somehow you will, heh. On my original post today in the link to the article there were abot 60 readers comments, did you read them? Did you see anyone unhappy with the canadian government system? What was thier opinion on the american system? Does anyone in canada or europe want a system like yours? Why all the "crises"? Could it be that something is broken?

Thats it, no more posts on the thread for me, if what i have just said makes no sense, then nothing further i say will.

Lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Cheers, your friend,
kernie

[SC Cheesehead]

Healthcare, how do you feel about having such dismal stats compared to the rest of the western world despite spending twice as much or more per person? How can you possibly defend the past record?
"no government agency or programthat can do ANYTHING better than a private entity"
How about everyones government health program is better, can you really argue that? I know somehow you will, heh. On my original post today in the link to the article there were abot 60 readers comments, did you read them? Did you see anyone unhappy with the canadian government system? What was thier opinion on the american system? Does anyone in canada or europe want a system like yours? Why all the "crises"? Could it be that something is broken?

Thats it, no more posts on the thread for me, if what i have just said makes no sense, then nothing further i say will.

Lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Cheers, your friend,
kernie

okay by me.

[SC Cheesehead]

+1!

I'm not as smart as Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi, but I believe that is what the drafters of the Constitution had in mind.

Yeah, kind of a Forrest Gump sorta thing, ain't it...:rolleyes:

[FordNut]

What i do see and understand is the uglyness of large heathcare and thier pre-existing BS...
That pre-existing clause does stink, but it is necessary to prevent people from waiting until they're sick to get insurance. One way to alleviate this would be to expand on laws already in place. HIPAA allows people who have been under insurance to transfer without any pre-existing condition clauses applying, but it only applies to company-provided benefits. I would have gladly signed up for private health insurance except I would have to wait 2 years for the pre-existing conditions clause to expire. Just extend existing regulations to apply across the board instead of the crap they've come up with now.


Their doctors are already spending 30-40% of their time processing regulatory paperwork, this obviously improves patient quality of care.
Makes healthcare a lot less expensive, when they have to hire more people to deal with the paperwork than to take care of patients. More government intrusion and regulation, that's the answer. yeah, right...



Anyway i'm going to leave now before someone calls me a commie!
If the shoe fits...

[kernie]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kernie http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=903767#post90 3767)
Anyway i'm going to leave now before someone calls me a commie!

"If the shoe fits..."

He He, thanks, i needed that!

Your friend,
No really comrade, your friend,
kernie

[SC Cheesehead]

That pre-existing clause does stink, but it is necessary to prevent people from waiting until they're sick to get insurance...

That's exactly right! So often the thought is that doctors or insurance companies are the only ones in the wrong, and are trying to screw people out of insurance, but that's not always the case; just as often its people trying to gouge the system.

One other thing that needs to be pointed out to our Canadian brethren. There may be people without insurance coverage, but that does not equate to people going without medical care. As much as it has been pounded into your heads, there are not thousands of people dying in the streets here in the US due to no medical coverage. Obviously, there are things that need to be fixed in our medical system, but IT AIN'T TOTALLY BROKEN!

Look at it another way: If your car has a miss due to a bad spark plug, you change the plug, you don't yank the whole engine and put in a new one. Less governmental regulation, and curbing litigation to reduce outrageous malpractice claims would go a long ways to controlling medical costs. I'd much prefer (along with 57% of my fellow citizens) that we try going that route first before we do a complete overhaul of the system.

[LIGHTNIN1]

Cheesehead,
You are correct on the medical care. If there were so many people dying in the streets why didn't some of the chosen news casters do some stories on it?I did not hear a word about it till Obama gets elected, then all of a sudden we have this grand crisis.
We have quite a few people from Mexico living here, some who are probably not legal.They estimate maybe 30% of Oklahomans do not have insurance,a debatable number probably on the high side. I have not seen any complaining prior to last year of scores of people not getting medical care. It is just another one of their manufactured crises. I remember when Clinton was in they talked about people stealing their cats food out from under them and eating it to survive. What happened to all the cat food eaters? Did they solve the problem? Did things change? NO!

[SC Cheesehead]

Did somebody say cat food? I love that stuff! (Tastes just like chicken...) :D

[LIGHTNIN1]

+1!

I'm not as smart as Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi, but I believe that is what the drafters of the Constitution had in mind.

:laugh::laugh:
Yeah Joe you have to get up real early to match wits with Biden and Pelosi. Ha Ha

[FordNut]

Anybody seen the new reports...

"Reproduction rights" groups claim that infertility treatments should be covered by insurance! Yep, y'all got it right, we taxpayers may be paying for Octomom's next litter!

What's next... Think about it, Barney and some of his liberal cronies are pushing their sexual identity anti-discrimination agenda. Next it will be considered a disability that someone was born the wrong gender. Then we taxpayers get to pay for sex change surgery an lifetime hormone treatments since it is a disability.

[kernie]

Anybody seen the new reports...

"Reproduction rights" groups claim that infertility treatments should be covered by insurance! Yep, y'all got it right, we taxpayers may be paying for Octomom's next litter!

What's next... Think about it, Barney and some of his liberal cronies are pushing their sexual identity anti-discrimination agenda. Next it will be considered a disability that someone was born the wrong gender. Then we taxpayers get to pay for sex change surgery an lifetime hormone treatments since it is a disability.
I'm pretty sure nobody's government heathcare covers "sex change surgery" but ooooohhhhh maybe your system will jump from where you are to the most liberal system anywhere, ooooohhhh, lol give me a break on the silly fox news type stuff!

[FordNut]

I'm pretty sure nobody's government heathcare covers "sex change surgery" but ooooohhhhh maybe your system will jump from where you are to the most liberal system anywhere, ooooohhhh, lol give me a break on the silly fox news type stuff!

Think about it... Our federal government is trying to fight a state law that will enforce federal statutes (immigration in Arizona), and refuses to enforce other federal laws (pot growers in California). These people in Washington are nuts, they are less trustworthy than a used car salesman.

[kernie]

Think about it... Our federal government is trying to fight a state law that will enforce federal statutes (immigration in Arizona), and refuses to enforce other federal laws (pot growers in California). These people in Washington are nuts, they are less trustworthy than a used car salesman.
Here is a post from the article "comments" that i posted this am, it is in responce to a canadian "whiner", i thought it made sense and explained alot of this teabagger stuff, remember, i didn't write it,

..come on DaisyMae...blaming "those politicians" it is the mating call of the contemporary "angry citizen" who can't manage their own life, is ill-informed and wants easy answers, likes to accuse someone in prominent position if things are quite as they should be even if they have nothing directly to do with it, doesn't realize how good life is in Canada and needs to blame someone for his or her own insecurities or shortcomings.
Mostly they can't accept that YOU are primarily the author of your own fate.

Witness the comment you rebutted......it is totally ridiclous to lay blame for poor health and condtion of people at feet of elected people. What, your MP should come round to your house every day, to cook you a healthy meal, , motivate you to go for a walk , cycle to work with you after he pays for your new bicycle, and stop you from eating chips for the third time in four days ?

Alas seems that is 90 % of all public discourse today... high school level "those politicians" and "those corporations" simplified childish nonsense reactions.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2010/04/28/health-life-expectancy-canada-us.html#socialcomments#ixzz0mX 06FDlU

[FordNut]

Not sure what you're getting at.

[Leadfoot281]

I'm pretty sure nobody's government heathcare covers "sex change surgery" but ooooohhhhh maybe your system will jump from where you are to the most liberal system anywhere, ooooohhhh, lol give me a break on the silly fox news type stuff!

I believe sex change operations are covered under California law for government employees. I'll try and dig up some links. Don't wait for me though... I'm still busy trying to figure out why Obama thinks I need health insurance.

[FordNut]

I'm still busy trying to figure out why Obama thinks I need health insurance.

To help pay for everybody else to have it?

Oh, that's another little accounting trick nobody seems to notice. The only way for insurance companies to not go broke with the new coverage requirements is for a lot of people who are currently uninsured to be forced to purchase insurance. But a large percentage of those people have incomes that are low enough that their premiums are subsidized by the government. So we taxpayers are paying half on the insurance premiums for those folks as well as paying our own premiums.

Is everybody happy?

[Leadfoot281]

I'll review my prior posts in this thread as to why I don't like this program:

The Federal Government running anything that was once run by the private sector is a bad thing!

They can't run anything efficiently and effectively...
they can only run programs into the ground while burning our tax dollars at an incredible rate.

I give them a 'bye' on the National Military because that must be run by the Federal government.
(and when I see something get blown up, I feel that my tax doller has been put to good use.:D)


I agree 100% Joe. The free market works.

Democrats want to turn the entire citizenry into welfare recipients.

A few weeks ago, The New York Times ran an editorial noting the amazing fact that, by the middle of this year, there will be an estimated 6.8 billion people on Earth -- and 5 billion will have cell phones! (Even more astounding, at least one of them is seated directly behind me every time I go to the movies.)

How did that happen without a Democrat president and Congress using bribes, parliamentary tricks and arcane non-voting maneuvers to pass a massive, hugely expensive National Cell Phone Reform Act?
How did that happen without Barney Frank and Henry Waxman personally designing the 3-foot-long, 26-pound, ugly green $4,000 cell phone we all have to use?

The reason nearly everyone in the universe has a cell phone is that President Reagan did to telephones the exact opposite of what the Democrats have just done with health care.

Before Reagan came into office, we had one phone company, ridiculously expensive rates and one phone model. Reagan split up AT&T, deregulated phone service and gave America a competitive market in phones. The rest is history.

If you can grasp how inexpensive cell phones in a rainbow of colors and wonders like the iPhone could never have been created under a National Cell Phone Reform Act, you can understand what a disaster ObamaCare is going to be for health care in America. -Ann Coulter.

Full article here. http://townhall.com/columnists/AnnCoulter/2010/03/31/prescriptions_for_disaster_now _covered_under_obamacare?page= 1

[SC Cheesehead]

Here is a post from the article "comments" that i posted this am, it is in responce to a canadian "whiner", i thought it made sense and explained alot of this teabagger stuff, remember, i didn't write it,

..come on DaisyMae...blaming "those politicians" it is the mating call of the contemporary "angry citizen" who can't manage their own life, is ill-informed and wants easy answers, likes to accuse someone in prominent position if things are quite as they should be even if they have nothing directly to do with it, doesn't realize how good life is in Canada and needs to blame someone for his or her own insecurities or shortcomings.
Mostly they can't accept that YOU are primarily the author of your own fate.

Witness the comment you rebutted......it is totally ridiclous to lay blame for poor health and condtion of people at feet of elected people. What, your MP should come round to your house every day, to cook you a healthy meal, , motivate you to go for a walk , cycle to work with you after he pays for your new bicycle, and stop you from eating chips for the third time in four days ?

Alas seems that is 90 % of all public discourse today... high school level "those politicians" and "those corporations" simplified childish nonsense reactions.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2010/04/28/health-life-expectancy-canada-us.html#socialcomments#ixzz0mX 06FDlU

You just don't get it, do you kernie.

The "teabagger" stuff you refer to in your comments appears to relate to not enough government involvement/responsibility for the good folks of Canada. On the other hand, the Tea Party movement down here relates to demonstration AGAINST government intrusion in our lives. We don't WANT government intervention, we don't want "your MP should come round to your house every day, to cook you a healthy meal, , motivate you to go for a walk , cycle to work with you after he pays for your new bicycle, and stop you from eating chips for the third time in four days." We (at least 57% of us at last count) want government to stay the hell out of our lives. We think that we can manage our own lives quite well thank you, and we wholeheartedly accept the fact that WE are primarily the author of our own fate.

From the sound of it, the "whiner" in your post is representative of the entitlement mentality that apparently exists and is growing in Canada, and we DEFINITELY don't want or need any more of that down here in the lower 48.

[Paul T. Casey]

1) If our health care system is ranked so low, how is our life expectancy ahead of so many of theses better systems, despite the fact that we send our youth around the world to keep the "system" safe, have the most questionable dietary practices, and engage in dangerous pasttimes because of our abundant wealth.
2) How and who is doing this "rating"? What are the points the different systems get rated on? Obviously waiting lists do not count.
3) If 60ish% of the citizenry (sic) don't want this particular type of change, why is some "feriner" on my car website "poking the bear?"

We do need change. The pre-existing stuff like Brian and others said, meaningful tort reform (after all, to be in the lower half of the world means our doctors and hospitals shouldn't be so financially culpable), with this tort reform, maybe tie in a set "payback" system for the deadbeats who currently get treatment and bolt on the bill. Attach a modest payment to either their paycheck or their benefit check until the bill is paid. Finally, a faster track for new medicines/treatments from labratory to market.

[CBT]

It will be interesting to see what happens and if opinions change in say, a year from now, (if this thread survives, so far so good) or as individuals experience an increase or decrease in how much they pay, or if their coverage changes, longer wait lines, shorter wait lines, etc. etc. I am monitoring my current pay and retirement pay for any increases in any taxes.

[Paul T. Casey]

The average persom on this site doesn't mind paying for something he gets. I'm pretty sure we all (here) have earned most of our stuff. Where the problem lies is twofold. A) We worry about paying more for less, and B) is this just another stepping stone to "bigger things" (i.e. no illegal aliens will get free healthcare, because they're all going to get amnesty, thereby no longer be illegal). Slightly off topic, but why is the Gov't sending SWAT teams to the oil spill? More importantly, why does the DOI (Dept. of the Interior) even have a SWAT Team?

[LIGHTNIN1]

The average persom on this site doesn't mind paying for something he gets. I'm pretty sure we all (here) have earned most of our stuff. Where the problem lies is twofold. A) We worry about paying more for less, and B) is this just another stepping stone to "bigger things" (i.e. no illegal aliens will get free healthcare, because they're all going to get amnesty, thereby no longer be illegal). Slightly off topic, but why is the Gov't sending SWAT teams to the oil spill? More importantly, why does the DOI (Dept. of the Interior) even have a SWAT Team?

Good Questions. You know there was something behind the swat team move. I mean the blow out happened 10 days ago and they are just now suspecting foulplay. Guess what? As of now, no more offshore drilling. Who would have ever guessed? I am glad to pay my fair share of healthcare premiums and think I get a good deal. Can Congress mind its own business?

[CBT]

The average persom on this site doesn't mind paying for something he gets. I'm pretty sure we all (here) have earned most of our stuff. Where the problem lies is twofold. A) We worry about paying more for less, and B) is this just another stepping stone to "bigger things" (i.e. no illegal aliens will get free healthcare, because they're all going to get amnesty, thereby no longer be illegal). Slightly off topic, but why is the Gov't sending SWAT teams to the oil spill? More importantly, why does the DOI (Dept. of the Interior) even have a SWAT Team?

Good questions. I'm still wondering why our National Guard troops get deployed overseas. :confused: The Governors of each state have to authorize that, don't they? Why don't they just say no?

[SC Cheesehead]

The average persom on this site doesn't mind paying for something he gets. I'm pretty sure we all (here) have earned most of our stuff. Where the problem lies is twofold. A) We worry about paying more for less, and B) is this just another stepping stone to "bigger things" (i.e. no illegal aliens will get free healthcare, because they're all going to get amnesty, thereby no longer be illegal). Slightly off topic, but why is the Gov't sending SWAT teams to the oil spill? More importantly, why does the DOI (Dept. of the Interior) even have a SWAT Team?


Paul, ON TARGET with points A & B. IMO, that's the real issue, not "reforms" to health care.

[SC Cheesehead]

Good Questions. You know there was something behind the swat team move. I mean the blow out happened 10 days ago and they are just now suspecting foulplay. Guess what? As of now, no more offshore drilling. Who would have ever guessed? I am glad to pay my fair share of healthcare premiums and think I get a good deal. Can Congress mind its own business?


Exactly wht I've been thinking. Kind of a co-inky dink, PrezBo announces his support for offshore drilling, the tree huggers get their panties in a wad, all of a sudden an explosion on an offshore rig, followed by massive oil leakage.

Methinks maybe enviro-terrorism may be afoot? :dunno:

[FordNut]

You guys are going to be accused of being brainwashed by Fox News.

[LIGHTNIN1]

You guys are going to be accused of being brainwashed by Fox News.


We were accused of that yesterday. There are plenty of other sources these days. Liberals get scared and start accusing the other side of things like that . An old tactic that does not work very good any more. :D

[SC Cheesehead]

You guys are going to be accused of being brainwashed by Fox News.

Fair and Balanced, bubba! :D

[Paul T. Casey]

Still, DOI SWAT Teams? Ranger Rick busting through the door with a SAW drawn on your while Lassie sniffs out bombs? Smokey the Bear with a flamethrower? WTF. I understand the need for law enforcement in land management, but when was the last time the Brownies planted Claymores in Yosemite?

[CBT]

Still, DOI SWAT Teams? Ranger Rick busting through the door with a SAW drawn on your while Lassie sniffs out bombs? Smokey the Bear with a flamethrower? WTF. I understand the need for law enforcement in land management, but when was the last time the Brownies planted Claymores in Yosemite?
I KNEW he was actually a pyromaniac!!

[kernie]

It will be interesting to see what happens and if opinions change in say, a year from now, (if this thread survives, so far so good) or as individuals experience an increase or decrease in how much they pay, or if their coverage changes, longer wait lines, shorter wait lines, etc. etc. I am monitoring my current pay and retirement pay for any increases in any taxes.
It would take more than a year to change some of the minds around here, perhaps reincarnation would do it, he he.

Paul casey, Feriner, now thats a big word, so big the dictionary hasn't even heard of it. I did however find it being used


"A feriner! I recognize 'em from a mile away!
He's an Anti-truthite, just like Hitler!"

You got that from Bill Oreilly right?

[Paul T. Casey]

You got that from Bill Oreilly right?

No, I think it was Bob Newhart.

[kernie]

No, I think it was Bob Newhart.
Well of course i could come back with some words of my own but thats not very nice.

And i know i'm outgunned because oreilly has a new word everyday!

Smile, kernie

[SC Cheesehead]

It would take more than a year to change some of the minds around here, perhaps reincarnation would do it, he he.

Paul casey, Feriner, now thats a big word, so big the dictionary hasn't even heard of it. I did however find it being used


"A feriner! I recognize 'em from a mile away!
He's an Anti-truthite, just like Hitler!"

You got that from Bill Oreilly right?

Yeah, we're just stubborn old bastiges that refuse to put all our trust and faith in our government. I mean, given the marvelous track record the US government has in administering Social Security and Medicare, how could we, the people, possibly doubt that a government-managed health care program would turn out any different? :rolleyes:

To wit:

"The total cost of cash benefits for the Social Security disability program has increased dramatically since its inception. Since 1990 the total cost of disability has risen 93 percent in real terms (160 percent in nominal terms)."
http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/chartbooks/disability_trends/table01.html

"The costs of Medicare doubled every four years between 1966 and 1980. According to the 2004 "Green Book" of the House Ways and Means Committee, Medicare expenditures from the American government were $256.8 billion in fiscal year 2002. Beneficiary premiums are highly subsidized, and net outlays for the program, accounting for the premiums paid by subscribers, were $230.9 billion.
Medicare spending is growing steadily in both absolute terms and as a percentage of the federal budget. Total Medicare spending reached $440 billion for fiscal year 2007 or 16% of all federal spending and grew to $599 billion in 2008 which was 20% of federal spending."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/Medicare_and_Medicaid_GDP_Char t.svg/689px-Medicare_and_Medicaid_GDP_Char t.svg.png (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Medicare_and_Medicaid_GDP_Char t.svg)

"Medicare (as currently formulated) is on the path to fiscal insolvency: No matter what the wage level, marital status, or retirement date, a man or woman can expect to receive benefits that will cost the system far more than the taxes he or she paid into the system."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Fig._169_-_Net_lifetime_Medicare_benefit s.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Who in their right mind could possibly not want more of this in their future?

Perhaps reincaration is the answer. Maybe I'll die and come back as a Canadian. To paraphase an old saying from my Dad:

"You can always tell an old Canadian; you just can tell 'em much"...;)

[Paul T. Casey]

Well of course i could come back with some words of my own but thats not very nice.

And i know i'm outgunned because oreilly has a new word everyday!

Smile, kernie

I'm smiling, and, if nothing else, I'm firmly with you for the Cup winner. Called it a little sooner though.

[kernie]

I'm smiling, and, if nothing else, I'm firmly with you for the Cup winner. Called it a little sooner though.
Good stuff!

That crosby has something ovie or no one else has. Great guy too.

SC Cheesehead, i should have clammed up after i said "lets just agree to disagree", my bad. I wont repeat that mistake today.

Cheers kernie

[Paul T. Casey]

Good stuff!

That crosby has something ovie or no one else has. Great guy too.

SC Cheesehead, i should have clammed up after i said "lets just agree to disagree", my bad. I wont repeat that mistake today.

Cheers kernie

I may move my support to the Cannucks, there's something there.

[SC Cheesehead]

Good stuff!

That crosby has something ovie or no one else has. Great guy too.

SC Cheesehead, i should have clammed up after i said "lets just agree to disagree", my bad. I wont repeat that mistake today.

Cheers kernie

Not to worry! :D BTW, my folks were Canadians, so I've got a soft spot in my heart for you guys. :)

As for the Stanley Cup, Blackhawks fan, here.

[Paul T. Casey]

Ooops, whoring up a political thread with hockey, sorry.

[Paul T. Casey]

As for the Stanley Cup, Blackhawks fan, here.

Tragic. ....

[SC Cheesehead]

Ooops, whoring up a political thread with hockey, sorry.

:laugh: :hijack:

[LIGHTNIN1]

:laugh: :hijack:

Healthcare, doctors, nurses. There, back on subject.

[kernie]

I may move my support to the Cannucks, there's something there.
In the east the penguins seem to have a easy path to the final and should be rested and healthy to face the west champ.

Now the west is going to be fun to watch!

Van-chicago should be magic, i will call the canucks even though luongo has been shaky all year, including the olimpics and the sedins, well they are euopean ;), but the hawks are capable with some good young talent.

The Sharks should handle the wings but they have a poor choke label as well.

Sharks wiil handle the hawks or canucks i think.

So sharks and penguins, i call penguins.

[FordNut]

Great news! Almost all of the banks that got bailout money have paid it back, with interest! But GM has played a shell game and paid back one TARP loan with bailout money from a different account. And how about this: Freddie Mac is asking for an additional $10 Billion...

Congress is looking at financial reforms to beat down the banks (who paid off their loans) but Freddie, Fannie, GM, and Chrysler are exempt.

[SC Cheesehead]

Great news! Almost all of the banks that got bailout money have paid it back, with interest! But GM has played a shell game and paid back one TARP loan with bailout money from a different account. And how about this: Freddie Mac is asking for an additional $10 Billion...

Congress is looking at financial reforms to beat down the banks (who paid off their loans) but Freddie, Fannie, GM, and Chrysler are exempt.

C.Y.C.B.I....:shake:

[Paul T. Casey]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE64635W20100507

Some more of that Change we were all Hope (ing) for. I recall back in the day this Kadafi character started this foolishness. That earned him a little present in his bedroom one night. Then, when GW took over, he must have said something to ole Mr. Kadafi, because he not only shut down his U-235 production system. he shipped the parts and the fuel over here. Glad we don't have to do that anymore.

[LIGHTNIN1]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE64635W20100507

Some more of that Change we were all Hope (ing) for. I recall back in the day this Kadafi character started this foolishness. That earned him a little present in his bedroom one night. Then, when GW took over, he must have said something to ole Mr. Kadafi, because he not only shut down his U-235 production system. he shipped the parts and the fuel over here. Glad we don't have to do that anymore.

I thought Bush was going to attack these people before he left office. Now we have someone that is not going to attack anyone. This guy in Iran makes no bones about what he intends. Sanctions never have worked anywhere I remember, I mean how many times we already tried them with Iran? It is like saying to a kid I will not give you a candy bar till you get in a better mood.

[Paul T. Casey]

Now we have someone that is not going to attack anyone. .

Even worse, sold out our only friend over there, told everybody how many Nukes we have, and promised that even if attached, we would use them. Probably the only promise he intends to keep.

[LIGHTNIN1]

Even worse, sold out our only friend over there, told everybody how many Nukes we have, and promised that even if attached, we would use them. Probably the only promise he intends to keep.
.
I think you are right on all counts. You can imagine the moral at the intelligence agencies these days, with him giving away the family jewels.

[kernie]

.
"Even worse, sold out our only friend over there, told everybody how many Nukes we have, and promised that even if attached, we would use them. Probably the only promise he intends to keep".

I think you are right on all counts. You can imagine the moral at the intelligence agencies these days, with him giving away the family jewels.
When you say you will use them doesn't that make it an option for all?

Scary stuff.

Respectfully, kernie.

[LIGHTNIN1]

I don't remember him making the statement that he would use Nukes. What I remember is the administration said they would not use them under a lot of circumstances even if we were attacked with bioterroism. That is what is scary to me ,is that if we are attacked like 911 or worse the only response is from these people is a possible beer summit or dinner for them at the White House.

[CBT]

I don't remember him making the statement that he would use Nukes. What I remember is the administration said they would not use them under a lot of circumstances even if we were attacked with bioterroism. That is what is scary to me ,is that if we are attacked like 911 or worse the only response is from these people is a possible beer summit or dinner for them at the White House.

Exactly, all a terrorist has to do after blowing some stuff up here in America is play the race card. It's an instant invite to drink beer at the white house and discuss how everyone involved is not wrong or at fault and no one should be held accountable for thier actions.

[Paul T. Casey]

When you say you will use them doesn't that make it an option for all?

Scary stuff.

Respectfully, kernie.

The basis for deterrence. You may think twice about hitting me if you know I may hit you back harder. Despite what the Euro-trash tells you, it kept everyone relatively war free (world war type) for 60+ years.

[kernie]

The basis for deterrence. You may think twice about hitting me if you know I may hit you back harder. Despite what the Euro-trash tells you, it kept everyone relatively war free (world war type) for 60+ years.
The deterrence is there, as everyone knows, and yes it works.

My point is do you need to use it in specific threats?

How serious a situation calls for the "N" threat?

Again, if you use the threat does it not make the weapon fair game?

And when you use that threat againt a country without N, as did Dick Cheney did against Iran... {going by memory here} that country wont like it and will seek to nutralize the disadvantage.

Look at North Korea, it has some big sticks too. Suddenly the strategy is more like giving them stuff to pacify them.

Do we want the irans of the world, to also want to be capable?

Is the euro-trash stuff helpfull? Does it make you feel better?

:beer:kernie

[kernie]

Great news! Almost all of the banks that got bailout money have paid it back, with interest! But GM has played a shell game and paid back one TARP loan with bailout money from a different account. And how about this: Freddie Mac is asking for an additional $10 Billion...

Congress is looking at financial reforms to beat down the banks (who paid off their loans) but Freddie, Fannie, GM, and Chrysler are exempt.
If you see something that seems to work?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/stephen-harper-gets-nod-abroad-for-stand-against-global-bank-tax/article1562159/

Change is not a bad word.

:beer:kernie

[SC Cheesehead]

If you see something that seems to work?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/stephen-harper-gets-nod-abroad-for-stand-against-global-bank-tax/article1562159/

Change is not a bad word.

:beer:kernie

Agreed, but then again, it all depends on who's doing the changing, and in what direction you're headed.

[kernie]

Agreed, but then again, it all depends on who's doing the changing, and in what direction you're headed.
“When Americans and Europeans press Mr. Harper at the G20 meeting to accept a tax on banks to curb their riskiness, he has reason to retort that Canadian-style regulation does the job better,” the article (http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=1605 9938) says.

Harper is saying don't force this bank tax on us.

I would think you guys would like that.

Edit; Click on the word "article" for the brittish article, check out the comments in it as well.

:beer:kernie

[SC Cheesehead]

“When Americans and Europeans press Mr. Harper at the G20 meeting to accept a tax on banks to curb their riskiness, he has reason to retort that Canadian-style regulation does the job better,” the article (http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=1605 9938) says.

Harper is saying don't force this bank tax on us.

I would think you guys would like that.

:beer:kernie

Yup, 100% agreement on that one!

[LIGHTNIN1]

Agreed, but then again, it all depends on who's doing the changing, and in what direction you're headed.

That says it. The direction we are headed today is definitely the wrong way of change. When this administration spends in less than one year more than all the previous administrations combined , over 200 years worth, doesn't take a math major to know this is all wrong. The bank tax, yes that is part of this all too wrong direction we are headed. These people have a war on capitolism and the banks are part of that war.

[Paul T. Casey]

The deterrence is there, as everyone knows, and yes it works.

My point is do you need to use it in specific threats? Perhaps. But if you take it off the table regarding threats, I believe you are asking for the specified threats to become realities.

How serious a situation calls for the "N" threat?To me, anything that claims 1 or more lives of my countrymen should warrant at least the consideration of any and all means available to assure it doesn't happen again.

Again, if you use the threat does it not make the weapon fair game?The weapon is already fair game. You don't think the Russians, Chinese, and probably even the French haven't already "gamed" some situations?

And when you use that threat againt a country without N, as did Dick Cheney did against Iran... {going by memory here} that country wont like it and will seek to nutralize the disadvantage.Your Cheney-phobia has nothing to do with a country like Iran seeking WMD's. They, through their president, have stated, numerous times, their intentions regarding the destruction of the Jewish state.

Look at North Korea, it has some big sticks too. Suddenly the strategy is more like giving them stuff to pacify them.Weakness at the top down here doesn't mean it's good policy. Trouble is, we gave them the technology back in the Clinton days. Again, I believe they (Kim Il) would have persued the Nuclear weapons anyway.

Do we want the irans of the world, to also want to be capable?Of course not, but see above. You can fall for their excuses (kind of like Europe and the U/K did with Hitler) or you can look at the facts, as stated by the leaders themselves.

Is the euro-trash stuff helpfull? Does it make you feel better?Yes, it's about the nicest thing I can think of saying as to the majority of the leadership over there right now.

:beer:kernie

My answers in "deep sky blue."

[kernie]

My answers in "deep sky blue."
Wow, ok one more question

If you get into a serious spat with russia will you have the same attitude you are showing?

Ok, two questions,

Do you think if i move to austrailia i could survive?

:beer:while you can, kernie

[SC Cheesehead]

Wow, ok one more question

If you get into a serious spat with russia will you have the same attitude you are showing?

Ok, two questions,

Do you think if i move to austrailia i could survive?

:beer:while you can, kernie

I think we all oughta move to Austrailia, that or NZ. ;)

[Paul T. Casey]

Wow, ok one more question

If you get into a serious spat with russia will you have the same attitude you are showing?Yes, it seems to have worked in the past.

Ok, two questions,

Do you think if i move to austrailia i could survive?Survive what? The upcoming global economic meltdown?

:beer:while you can, kernie

Same color, it's pretty.

[kernie]

Same color, it's pretty.
What has worked in the past is mutual assured destruction, and yes it will continue to work.

Our real enemy are terrorists with bigger sticks, the tough talk stance thingy doesn't work here.

Intel, intel, intel, on this count the US and some other western agencies deserve praise, keep up the good work, re-double efforts and keep a thumb on the hotspots.

Gotta go, good talking to you guys.

:beer:kernie

[SC Cheesehead]

Well, finally somebody over here is starting to get it:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/new-york-times-to-greece-end-socialized-medicine-to-save-money-93292549.html

[Paul T. Casey]

Our real enemy are terrorists with bigger sticks, the tough talk stance thingy doesn't work here.
:beer:kernie

Maybe not with the terrorists per say, but pressure applied to those who harbor them makes life more difficult. Without a "base of Operations" they are pretty limited as to what weapons they can deploy. It's not real feasible to tote around a nuke on a camel. Most of the world seems to be of the mistaken notion that the terrorists are their own separate entity. They are not, rather they are well funded yet deniable armies of certian radical nations.

[kernie]

Do you think if i move to austrailia i could survive?Survive what? The upcoming global economic meltdown?

OK, consiter the following pure satire otherwise you might no like much of the following.

Start up a fund that every american could access, gather up the richest 100 or so americans who are willing to participate, put them on a stage and primetime TV and ask them to donate as much as they can to give this fund a hefty start. Call it the patriot fund or america first fund, if you have 10 million in the bank it sounds like america has been good to you, can you part with one million? You are upper-middleclass, add up your assets and your allmost a millionare, can you part with 10 grand? You live paycheque to paycheque, can you give 10 bucks? I t might just catch on.

OK, i know you are rolling your eyes or worse cause AMERICA IS NOT A CHARITY! But if the top 5% of wealthy people hold 95% of the wealth, all that money just sitting there. America is still very rich but its in private accounts not government coffers, i know the tea-partiers are well :mad2:angry allready but remember the above is all voluntary.

One way or another the debt has to be addressed, if i allready havn't ticked you off now i will, he he, remember this is all satire.

Sin Taxes, i know you allready pay these but hit em harder.

Smokes, throw 2 buck more on a pack countrywide, don't want to pay this tax? Don't stick another fuse in your mouth, its unhealthy, i smoked for 25 years but quit 5 years ago and yes it was hard, too bad, if you quit you will have extra cash to pay for...

Gasoline, toss on another buck countrywide, don't want to pay this tax? Walk, take public transit, buy a tin can on wheels that gets a zillion miles per gallon, if you can afford to fill your marauder good for you have fun and feel good that you just contributed 20 bucks to the cause.

Alcohol, toss on a good chunk, don't wanna pay this tax? Dont drink its unhealthy, if you want that 40 pounder or 2-4 and your gonna get drunk tonight, good for you perhaps i will join you and we can both feel good cause we contributed to the cause.

America is great and i believe it will be great in the future, she just needs to pull her socks up.

:beer:kernie

[SC Cheesehead]

Do you think if i move to austrailia i could survive?Survive what? The upcoming global economic meltdown?

OK, consiter the following pure satire otherwise you might no like much of the following.

Start up a fund that every american could access, gather up the richest 100 or so americans who are willing to participate, put them on a stage and primetime TV and ask them to donate as much as they can to give this fund a hefty start. Call it the patriot fund or america first fund, if you have 10 million in the bank it sounds like america has been good to you, can you part with one million? You are upper-middleclass, add up your assets and your allmost a millionare, can you part with 10 grand? You live paycheque to paycheque, can you give 10 bucks? I t might just catch on.

OK, i know you are rolling your eyes or worse cause AMERICA IS NOT A CHARITY! But if the top 5% of wealthy people hold 95% of the wealth, all that money just sitting there. America is still very rich but its in private accounts not government coffers, i know the tea-partiers are well :mad2:angry allready but remember the above is all voluntary.

One way or another the debt has to be addressed, if i allready havn't ticked you off now i will, he he, remember this is all satire.

Sin Taxes, i know you allready pay these but hit em harder.

Smokes, throw 2 buck more on a pack countrywide, don't want to pay this tax? Don't stick another fuse in your mouth, its unhealthy, i smoked for 25 years but quit 5 years ago and yes it was hard, too bad, if you quit you will have extra cash to pay for...

Gasoline, toss on another buck countrywide, don't want to pay this tax? Walk, take public transit, buy a tin can on wheels that gets a zillion miles per gallon, if you can afford to fill your marauder good for you have fun and feel good that you just contributed 20 bucks to the cause.

Alcohol, toss on a good chunk, don't wanna pay this tax? Dont drink its unhealthy, if you want that 40 pounder or 2-4 and your gonna get drunk tonight, good for you perhaps i will join you and we can both feel good cause we contributed to the cause.

America is great and i believe it will be great in the future, she just needs to pull her socks up.

:beer:kernie

Yeah, the top wage earners need to do a better job of paying their "fair share," don't they? :rolleyes:

"The latest data show that a big portion of the federal income tax burden is shoul­dered by a small group of the very richest Americans. The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 per­cent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes."

Yeah, let's squeeze more out of folks through other means of taxation to enable the US to further expand government and increase entitlement programs, that's GOTTA be the way to future wealth and prosperity. :shake:

There you go, if we would just get our act together and "do it right,"huh?,,,, "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." :bows:

[CBT]

So I have to go pick a family practitioner soon.....

[SC Cheesehead]

So I have to go pick a family practitioner soon.....

Do not worry, commrade, we will do it for you...

[CBT]

Do not worry, commrade, we will do it for you...

I'm still waiting for my free puppy, you goons!

[CBT]

But seriously, I need to pick a doctors office. Havn't been to the doctor since around June of 2008.

[SC Cheesehead]

I'm still waiting for my free puppy, you goons!


http://www.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://mib.pianetalinux.org/mib/images/stories/m/maypo.jpg&ei=wGrpS9XOF8-Y_Qa-9oDsCg&sa=X&oi=image_landing_page_redirect&ct=legacy&usg=AFQjCNH6VcZpg8IeIpNVekCJHo MU2cYJcg

[LIGHTNIN1]

I'm still waiting for my free puppy, you goons!

You are not the only one that has been shorted by the annointed one. Others are waiting for the shovel ready jobs they were promised, and some like myself are waiting for gas to be put in their cars. I think I will ask for a blower for the MM.;)

[SC Cheesehead]

You are not the only one that has been shorted by the annointed one. Others are waiting for the shovel ready jobs they were promised, and some like myself are waiting for gas to be put in their cars. I think I will ask for a blower for the MM.;)

Wait a minute! Don't you be asking for one unless I can get one too. After all, I just want my fair share! ;) ----> :D

[LIGHTNIN1]

Wait a minute! Don't you be asking for one unless I can get one too. After all, I just want my fair share! ;) ----> :D

You can't have one. Didn't you read the post from our Canadian friend? You are not paying enough in taxes. When you are paying 85% then you can have one, not before.

[kernie]

Yeah, the top wage earners need to do a better job of paying their "fair share," don't they? :rolleyes:

"The latest data show that a big portion of the federal income tax burden is shoul­dered by a small group of the very richest Americans. The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 per­cent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes."

Yeah, let's squeeze more out of folks through other means of taxation to enable the US to further expand government and increase entitlement programs, that's GOTTA be the way to future wealth and prosperity. :shake:

There you go, if we would just get our act together and "do it right,"huh?,,,, "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." :bows:




I knew you were gonna like that, he he.

Did you notice that everything i said was prettymuch voluntary.

America had the biggest gap in the world between rich and poor, the rich are being picked on?

Was it just the last sentence thats got you going, jeez there is just no way nice enough, to say some things to some people.

Satire means funny.

:beer:kernie

[Paul T. Casey]

America had the biggest gap in the world between rich and poor, the rich are being picked on?
:beer:kernie

What??? Perhaps we need another $2 a gallon on Canadian beer. Use it to fund some sort of fact checking software for the citizens. I believe SC has already set the record straight on your post of "satire" statistics.

[kernie]

What??? Perhaps we need another $2 a gallon on Canadian beer. Use it to fund some sort of fact checking software for the citizens. I believe SC has already set the record straight on your post of "satire" statistics.
OK OK, i will be quiet like a good little liberal.

:bows:kernie

[SC Cheesehead]

I knew you were gonna like that, he he.

Did you notice that everything i said was prettymuch voluntary.

America had the biggest gap in the world between rich and poor, the rich are being picked on?

Was it just the last sentence thats got you going, jeez there is just no way nice enough, to say some things to some people.

Satire means funny.

:beer:kernie
I have no problem with voluntary. If we would abolish the current income tax structure and adopt either a "voluntary" format, or something along the lines of the proposed FairTax, I'd be all for it.
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

Not so. In fact, there are several geographic areas/nations with a much greater disparity.
http://static.globalissues.org/i/poverty/wdi-2008/income-distribution-regional.png

Agreed. That's why I enjoy our jousting so much. You ought to realize by now that we're just having a lively discussion. :up:

[CBT]

Agreed. That's why I enjoy our jousting so much. You ought to realize by now that we're just having a lively discussion. :up:

Rex you like jousting with men from foreign countries, huh? I knew you were a sailor!

[Paul T. Casey]

OK OK, i will be quiet like a good little liberal.

:bows:kernie

No-one is asking you to be quiet, just factual. BTW, isn't that an oxymoron at the end of your sentence? :rolleyes:

[SC Cheesehead]

Rex you like jousting with men from foreign countries, huh? I knew you were a sailor!

http://www.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://www.thinksafetysigns.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/doh-homer-simpson.jpg&ei=B4fpS8RmmPL5BrnmiMME&sa=X&oi=image_landing_page_redirect&ct=legacy&usg=AFQjCNHLiPYq-yxp9hFVaAyzGJ8kGXjfGQ

Now they're coming at me from both sides!!

[kernie]

No-one is asking you to be quiet, just factual. BTW, isn't that an oxymoron at the end of your sentence? :rolleyes:
I never put up any stats, was just using common sense, if you google "rich-poor gap" or something to that effect as i did after your first post you will see that fox news lied to you. But who needs stats, just go to anywhere europe, canada, austrailia, you know G30 types, find the worst niebourhood and compare it to american centers, now find the rich areas of G30 type countries and compare it to US centers.

I can't believe you are acually arguing this point.

:beer:kernie

[SC Cheesehead]

I never put up any stats, was just using common sense, if you google "rich-poor gap" or something to that effect as i did after your first post you will see that fox news lied to you. But who needs stats, just go to anywhere europe, canada, austrailia, you know G30 types, find the worst niebourhood and compare it to american centers, now find the rich areas of G30 type countries and compare it to US centers.

I can't believe you are acually arguing this point.

:beer:kernie

My source wasn't Fox news, it was actually a study done by an international organization, and yes, there is disparity between rich and poor in the US, but as the World Bank graphic depicts, that disparity is greater in several other areas of the world.

So what's your point, we need a larger percentage of poor people in this country to get us rightup there with the rest of the world? :cool:

[LIGHTNIN1]

My source wasn't Fox news, it was actually a study done by an international organization, and yes, there is disparity between rich and poor in the US, but as the World Bank graphic depicts, that disparity is greater in several other areas of the world.

So what's your point, we need a larger percentage of poor people in this country to get us rightup there with the rest of the world? :cool:

As you know in stating that there are people that believe in that philosophy but these people just think others should live like that not themselves. A certain ex vice president comes to mind that spouts that rhetoric as he flys around in a 747, gives a few hundred dollars a year to charity and his monthly utility bill can run more than some houses cost. People that think this way are doing nothing to help the world themselves.They just want to bring America down.

[kernie]

[/i]

As you know in stating that there are people that believe in that philosophy but these people just think others should live like that not themselves. A certain ex vice president comes to mind that spouts that rhetoric as he flys around in a 747, gives a few hundred dollars a year to charity and his monthly utility bill can run more than some houses cost. People that think this way are doing nothing to help the world themselves.They just want to bring America down.
"they just want to bring america down"

The right wing movement is out of control, no more post from me.

[LIGHTNIN1]

"they just want to bring america down"

The right wing movement is out of control, no more post from me.


Yes I know that loving America is not politically correct in all circles these days. I know I have sinned and done wrong. Like many more who have sinned I must make amends to all have different views about America than I. So before sundown today I will donate all my worldly goods including my computer to a homeless shelter in San Francisco,hopefully operated by ACORN, and I will be joining the Church of Scientology full time, living on campus, to try and give back as the Liberals say.I know in their view I can never ever be a PURE human being as I have committed the un pardonable sin, I not only voted Democratic, I also voted for those other people, the Republicans. I will have the Church issue reports on my progress of coming clean. Later guys and gals.:bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:

[SC Cheesehead]

Yes I know that loving America is not politically correct in all circles these days. I know I have sinned and done wrong. Like many more who have sinned I must make amends to all have different views about America than I. So before sundown today I will donate all my worldly goods including my computer to a homeless shelter in San Francisco,hopefully operated by ACORN, and I will be joining the Church of Scientology full time, living on campus, to try and give back as the Liberals say.I know in their view I can never ever be a PURE human being as I have committed the un pardonable sin, I not only voted Democratic, I also voted for those other people, the Republicans. I will have the Church issue reports on my progress of coming clean. Later guys and gals.:bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:

Not me. I remain an incorrigible, unrepentant, reactionary, thoroughly right wing reprobate. :D

[LIGHTNIN1]

Not me. I remain an incorrigible, unrepentant, reactionary, thoroughly right wing reprobate. :D

You sinner. The devil will get you.

[Paul T. Casey]

Not me. I remain an incorrigible, unrepentant, reactionary, thoroughly right wing reprobate. :D

Is that seat next to you taken? Add free thinking to the list also.

[SC Cheesehead]

Is that seat next to you taken? Add free thinking to the list also.

All yours. :D

As for the rest of you, the line forms on the right...;)

[kernie]

All yours. :D

As for the rest of you, the line forms on the right...;)
So do you guys ever talk about idea's and solutions as i did yesterday or are you guys just the complaining crew?

Lets hear YOUR idea's.

[Phrog_gunner]

no more post from me.


So do you guys ever talk about idea's and solutions as I did yesterday, or are you guys just the complaining crew?

Lets hear YOUR idea's.

hmmmm :confused:

[SC Cheesehead]

So do you guys ever talk about idea's and solutions as i did yesterday or are you guys just the complaining crew?

Lets hear YOUR idea's.

Repeal Obamacare.

Cut government spending across the board by 50% in all areas but Defense.

Initiate Workfare to replace the current welfare entitlement system.

Privatize Social Security.

Eliminate the current income tax structure and replace it with a flat tax or the FairTax.

Eliminate the Capital Gains tax.


Those are just several ideas that would jumpstart the economy and at least get us headed toward deficit and debt reduction.

But of course they'll never happen under the current liberal/socialist regime, so I may as well just renew my membership in the complaining crew. :rolleyes:

[kernie]

hmmmm :confused:
You do have a point there, he he, mums the word.

[Ozark Marauder]

^^^+10^^^^, If I may not be TOO bold, may I add to the list, TERM LIMITS FOR SCOUNDRELS, oops, POLITICIANS.

Proud member of the Complaining Crew, I mean, 1st amendment CREW

[SC Cheesehead]

^^^+10^^^^, If I may not be TOO bold, may I add to the list, TERM LIMITS FOR SCOUNDRELS, oops, POLITICIANS.

Oh man, forgot that one, add it on for sure!!! :2thumbs:

[LIGHTNIN1]

or are you guys just the complaining crew?
no more post from me.


Nice to be amember of a different group each day. Yesterday we were members of the vast right wing conspiracy, to day we are members of the complaining crew. What some people can't figure out is you can call names all day long and it will not matter to me.

[SC Cheesehead]

"Congressional Budget Office estimates released Tuesday predict the health care overhaul will likely cost about $115 billion more in discretionary spending over ten years than the original cost projections."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37081.html

Gosh, whoda thunk it? :rolleyes:

C.Y.C.B.I. :shake:

[Paul T. Casey]

So do you guys ever talk about idea's and solutions as i did yesterday or are you guys just the complaining crew?

Lets hear YOUR idea's.

Actually, I did give a little thought to your "satire" yesterday. If we just change the wording a little and call it income. Say the man with 100 million income gives 10 million, and so forth, it would ammount to the largest tax cut in history. Right now, just income tax, that man at 100 mil., pays 38 mil. in income tax. (I know, it's not enough, and will rise next year). Of course, when you get down into the low earners (40,000 and less) 10% is probably an increase, so they may not be happy.

[SC Cheesehead]

Actually, I did give a little thought to your "satire" yesterday. If we just change the wording a little and call it income. Say the man with 100 million income gives 10 million, and so forth, it would ammount to the largest tax cut in history. Right now, just income tax, that man at 100 mil., pays 38 mil. in income tax. (I know, it's not enough, and will rise next year). Of course, when you get down into the low earners (40,000 and less) 10% is probably an increase, so they may not be happy.


"Virtually all of the personal income taxes in the United States are paid by just 47% of those who actually have income. This means that about 53% of the people are getting a free ride. Jobs and economic growth come from the 47%, not the 53%. What does this tell you about America's future?" - Neal Boortz

[kernie]

Actually, I did give a little thought to your "satire" yesterday. If we just change the wording a little and call it income. Say the man with 100 million income gives 10 million, and so forth, it would ammount to the largest tax cut in history. Right now, just income tax, that man at 100 mil., pays 38 mil. in income tax. (I know, it's not enough, and will rise next year). Of course, when you get down into the low earners (40,000 and less) 10% is probably an increase, so they may not be happy.
Acually i didn't mean to replace income taxes, this was meant as a voluntary kill the debt thingy.

The only reason i put in the word satire was to try not to have the negative backlash, of course it didn't work and the "trying to bring down america" garbage ticked me off.

You know the "america first" or "patriot fund", whatever you want to call it probably would work, spin it however to make it appealing enough without the charity feel. Americans are very patriotic and many have huge chunks of cash that has been taken out of circulation, not that every citizen shouldn't contribute but lets face it the top 10% of the wealth would provide the lions share.

As for the "sin tax", if you need to tax citizens why not throw extra on cigs, booze and gas, everyone complains about HAVING to pay taxes why not tax an area that you have some choise, you dont have to drink and smoke and of course shouldn't. Gasoline, while most have to have it, is at least somewhat controlable by each individual. Higher tax-laden prices on gas leads to less consumption and smaller more efficient vehicles as in europe. So you as an individual you control how much sin tax you pay, is this not a good thing?

[Haggis]

As for the "sin tax", if you need to tax citizens why not throw extra on cigs, booze and gas, everyone complains about HAVING to pay taxes why not tax an area that you have some choise, you dont have to drink and smoke and of course shouldn't. Gasoline, while most have to have it, is at least somewhat controlable by each individual. Higher tax-laden prices on gas leads to less consumption and smaller more efficient vehicles as in europe. So you as an individual you control how much sin tax you pay, is this not a good thing?

HEY!!!!! Leave my booze out of this or your going to have a revolution on your hands just like the 'Whisky Rebellion' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion) in the 1790s.

[SC Cheesehead]

Acually i didn't mean to replace income taxes, this was meant as a voluntary kill the debt thingy.

The only reason i put in the word satire was to try not to have the negative backlash, of course it didn't work and the "trying to bring down america" garbage ticked me off.

You know the "america first" or "patriot fund", whatever you want to call it probably would work, spin it however to make it appealing enough without the charity feel. Americans are very patriotic and many have huge chunks of cash that has been taken out of circulation, not that every citizen shouldn't contribute but lets face it the top 10% of the wealth would provide the lions share.

As for the "sin tax", if you need to tax citizens why not throw extra on cigs, booze and gas, everyone complains about HAVING to pay taxes why not tax an area that you have some choise, you dont have to drink and smoke and of course shouldn't. Gasoline, while most have to have it, is at least somewhat controlable by each individual. Higher tax-laden prices on gas leads to less consumption and smaller more efficient vehicles as in europe. So you as an individual you control how much sin tax you pay, is this not a good thing?

I would LOVE to see this.

Unfortunately, the government has no intention of reducing the debt. IMO, any more revenue that comes in would go to expansion of entitlement programs or other government spending.

It's all about power and control, fiscal management is not even part of the equation.

[kernie]

I would LOVE to see this.

Unfortunately, the government has no intention of reducing the debt. IMO, any more revenue that comes in would go to expansion of entitlement programs or other government spending.

It's all about power and control, fiscal management is not even part of the equation.
"I would LOVE to see this"

I think most americans would love it and it would work but i can't see the government "lowering itself" to initiate it. People have power, the angry voices can carry power, you see that with the tea party movement, america serve yourself!

[kernie]

HEY!!!!! Leave my booze out of this or your going to have a revolution on your hands just like the 'Whisky Rebellion' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion) in the 1790s.
I like my whisky too! Sin taxes are in force here, i pay 53 bucks for 1.75 litres {.46 US gallon}of CC, probably double what you pay{?} It can limit your consumption.

I quit smoking 5 years ago, cigs were 8 bucks a pack, 4,500 bucks a year for me to poison myself and my family, i HAD to quit.

See where i'm going with this sin tax thing?

[Haggis]

I like my whisky too! Sin taxes are in force here, i pay 53 bucks for 1.75 litres {.46 US gallon}of CC, probably double what you pay{?} It can limit your consumption.

I quit smoking 5 years ago, cigs were 8 bucks a pack, 4,500 bucks a year for me to poison myself and my family, i HAD to quit.

See where i'm going with this sin tax thing?

You don't really drink that s**t, do you?

[CBT]

I like my whisky too! Sin taxes are in force here, i pay 53 bucks for 1.75 litres {.46 US gallon}of CC, probably double what you pay{?} It can limit your consumption.

I quit smoking 5 years ago, cigs were 8 bucks a pack, 4,500 bucks a year for me to poison myself and my family, i HAD to quit.

See where i'm going with this sin tax thing?

Another thread? :D

[kernie]

Another thread? :D
Ok Ok , i'm done.

:beer:

[CBT]

I keeeeeed I keeeeed! Fire away with the tax stuff, we can tie it into the health care part of this thread easily enough.


Ok Ok , i'm done.

:beer:

[Paul T. Casey]

[QUOTE=kernie;910334]Acually i didn't mean to replace income taxes, this was meant as a voluntary kill the debt thingy.

The only reason i put in the word satire was to try not to have the negative backlash, of course it didn't work and the "trying to bring down america" garbage ticked me off.Fill out the attached form.

You know the "america first" or "patriot fund", whatever you want to call it probably would work, spin it however to make it appealing enough without the charity feel. Americans are very patriotic and many have huge chunks of cash that has been taken out of circulation, not that every citizen shouldn't contribute but lets face it the top 10% of the wealth would provide the lions share.See down here, we used to try and incentivise hard work and making it on your own. The closer we draw to socialism, (health care, welfare, and the like) the more we are importing the whole class envy thing of which you speak. How about cutting spending, and an equitable taxation if needed,

As for the "sin tax", if you need to tax citizens why not throw extra on cigs, booze and gas, everyone complains about HAVING to pay taxes why not tax an area that you have some choise, you dont have to drink and smoke and of course shouldn't. Gasoline, while most have to have it, is at least somewhat controlable by each individual. Higher tax-laden prices on gas leads to less consumption and smaller more efficient vehicles as in europe.I'm not sure we want to copy what Europe is doing, how about you? Until CAFE came about, the only people you saw driving trucks were the guys who used them for work. As car shrank more people bought trucks (including SUV's) because the car companies were able to not count them in fleet numbers. It's obvious to me that you also must like your full sized car (this is a Marauder site).QUOTE]

Your answers in deep sky blue again. You also need to get off the pity pot thinking that everyone is out to get you. Please fill out the attached form.

[knine]

Holy crap. This thing has gone on for 47 pages?? :shake:

[FordNut]

Kinda funny, the vast majority of Americans are against this health care reform law. It is mirrored with responses here, only a couple of Americans have posted in favor of it. But the Foreigners, boy are they adamant that it's the best thing since sliced bread.

[Paul T. Casey]

Kinda funny, the vast majority of Americans are against this health care reform law. It is mirrored with responses here, only a couple of Americans have posted in favor of it. But the Feriners, boy are they adamant that it's the best thing since sliced bread.

Fixed, just to keep my status as an #######.

[kernie]

Fixed, just to keep my status as an #######.
He He, good one Paul.

:beer:

[kernie]

Kinda funny, the vast majority of Americans are against this health care reform law. It is mirrored with responses here, only a couple of Americans have posted in favor of it. But the Foreigners, boy are they adamant that it's the best thing since sliced bread.
That is a funny thing, ALL of them are telling you it's the best thing since sliced bread, hmmm, wonder why they bother?:shake:

[Bluerauder]

That is a funny thing, ALL of them are telling you it's the best thing since sliced bread, hmmm, wonder why they bother?:shake:
I am still trying to figure out why a Buick owner signs up on a Mercury Marauder site to talk politics, health care, and ice hockey. :rolleyes:

[Haggis]

I am still trying to figure out why a Buick owner signs up on a Mercury Marauder site to talk politics, health care, and ice hockey. :rolleyes:

Have you ever been to a Buick site?

[kernie]

I am still trying to figure out why a Buick owner signs up on a Mercury Marauder site to talk politics, health care, and ice hockey. :rolleyes:
Cause he is a wanna-be MM owner and he doesn't have a MM to talk about yet:bigcry:.

If all my friends on this site contributed 10 bucks........oh never mind.

You do have a point.

:beer:

[SC Cheesehead]

That is a funny thing, ALL of them are telling you it's the best thing since sliced bread, hmmm, wonder why they bother?:shake:

My thoughts exactly.

UK, Spain, Greece, et al, all struggling with massive debt and sustained funding for their social programs, facing hard choices on where to make cuts....Hmmm, could be they're looking for somebody else to commiserate with? :dunno:

[Paul T. Casey]

My thoughts exactly.

UK, Spain, Greece, et al, all struggling with massive debt and sustained funding for their social programs, facing hard choices on where to make cuts....Hmmm, could be they're looking for somebody else to commiserate with? :dunno:

Bingo, plus, they are taught that crap in school, the whole"the man owes you" philosophy.

[SC Cheesehead]

Bingo, plus, they are taught that crap in school, the whole"the man owes you" philosophy.

Paul, Paul, Paul :shake:

You must know by now the "enlightened" approach, herr Kamarade...;)

[LIGHTNIN1]

Paul, Paul, Paul :shake:

You must know by now the "enlightened" approach, herr Kamarade...;)

They have already broken out the secret handshake down here, have you not heard? Komrade

[FordNut]

My thoughts exactly.

UK, Spain, Greece, et al, all struggling with massive debt and sustained funding for their social programs, facing hard choices on where to make cuts....Hmmm, could be they're looking for somebody else to commiserate with? :dunno:

It's going to get even worse for some of their socialist policies too. Increased rates of expatriates leaving the country due the high taxation and the realization the system won't be solvent by the time they retire.

I figure our illegal immigrants ought to be going to some of those places where they can get more freebies instead of staying in the USA. Maybe we could give them all a bus ticket to Canada.

[Dr Caleb]

You don't really drink that s**t, do you?

CC, tall glass, lots of ice, ginger ale and a squeeze of lemon! You should live so good!

[SC Cheesehead]

CC, tall glass, lots of ice, ginger ale and a squeeze of lemon! You should live so good!

Dr. this is one thing on which we agree 100% :D

:beer:

[kernie]

CC, tall glass, lots of ice, ginger ale and a squeeze of lemon! You should live so good!
Ahh Dr Caleb, its about time my relief arrived, they are all yours!

:beer:

[CBT]

Awww come on now, you did good! A lesser man would have gotten torqued and resorted to name calling about 2 pages ago. :beer:



Ahh Dr Caleb, its about time my relief arrived, they are all yours!

:beer:

[kernie]

Awww come on now, you did good! A lesser man would have gotten torqued and resorted to name calling about 2 pages ago. :beer:
Thank-you there CBT, you are a cool dude!

:beer:

[CBT]

That's what she said!
But seriously, it's good to hear how, hate to use "outsiders", but how outsiders view the whole universal health care thing we are going thru.


Thank-you there CBT, you are a cool dude!

:beer:

[Haggis]

CC, tall glass, lots of ice, ginger ale and a squeeze of lemon! You should live so good!
You surprise me by promoting that s**t, I know you know the difference between good whisky and s**t.

[kernie]

That's what she said!
But seriously, it's good to hear how, hate to use "outsiders", but how outsiders view the whole universal health care thing we are going thru.
Outsider is cool, and true , no problem, i felt welcome, i'm pretty sure haggis likes me. I am going to stop posting political stuff though.

:beer:

[Haggis]

Outsider is cool, and true , no problem, i felt welcome, i'm pretty sure haggis likes me. I am going to spot posting political stuff though.

:beer:

Who me? :bop:

And how do you 'spot posting'?

[CBT]

Outsider is cool, and true , no problem, i felt welcome, i'm pretty sure haggis likes me. I am going to spot posting political stuff though.

:beer:
I'm pretty sure he does also, you'd know if he didn't. Sometimes I wish he didn't like me so much. :shake: :D

[Haggis]

I'm pretty sure he does also, you'd know if he didn't. Sometimes I wish he didn't like me so much. :shake: :D

Say it aint so....:alone:

[CBT]

Say it aint so....:alone:

Don't let the doorknob hit you in the floormats on yer way out!

[SC Cheesehead]

So now we have it right from the proverbial horse's mouth. It's not about health care, it's all about redistribution of wealth:

"Any health care funding plan that is just equitable civilized and humane must, must redistribute wealth from the richer among us to the poorer and the less fortunate. Excellent health care is by definition redistributional."


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/05/12/obamas_nominee_to_head_medicar e_medicaid_we_must_redistribut e_wealth.html

C.Y.C.B.I. :shake:

[Leadfoot281]

So now we have it right from the proverbial horse's mouth. It's not about health care, it's all about redistribution of wealth:

"Any health care funding plan that is just equitable civilized and humane must, must redistribute wealth from the richer among us to the poorer and the less fortunate. Excellent health care is by definition redistributional."


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/05/12/obamas_nominee_to_head_medicar e_medicaid_we_must_redistribut e_wealth.html

C.Y.C.B.I. :shake:


I'm begining to think this picture wasn't photo chopped. :(

[CBT]

I'm begining to think this picture wasn't photo chopped. :(

LMMFAO!! That's great!

[Egon Spengler]

Wow... I decided to check on this thread and it has finally DE_RAILED!!!

I was amazed it was still open!

Congrats!!!

[LIGHTNIN1]

Wow... I decided to check on this thread and it has finally DE_RAILED!!!

I was amazed it was still open!

Congrats!!!


What happened here? I did not know you were going by an Alias now and Smokey had come back to life? Those Smokey movies are hilarious.:)

[Egon Spengler]

What happened here? I did not you were going by an Alias now and Smokey had come back to life? Those Smokey movies are hilarious.:)
Yeah... and I have the same relationship with the po po as he does! haha

[LIGHTNIN1]

Yeah... and I have the same relationship with the po po as he does! haha

You are a popular dude. That along with the guy at the cafe trying to hijack your car. You may have your own TV show next, or movie.

[Egon Spengler]

You are a popular dude. That along with the guy at the cafe trying to hijack your car. You may have your own TV show next, or movie.
LOL... Beautiful girl friend, trouble with the law, people wanting to be me....

I guess the name "Bandit" works for me!!

[Haggis]

LOL... Beautiful boy friend, trouble with the law, people wanting to as far away from me as possible....

I guess the name "Butt Bandit" works for me!!

................

[Bluerauder]

LOL... Beautiful girl friend, trouble with the law, people wanting to be me....

I guess the name "Bandit" works for me!!
Now all you need is a big chicken on your hood. ;)

[CBT]

Now all you need is a big chicken on your hood. ;)

It will contrast too much with the big turkey behind the wheel!:burnout:

[SC Cheesehead]

It will contrast too much with the big turkey behind the wheel!:burnout:

:laugh: jocularity! :lol:

[Egon Spengler]

It will contrast too much with the big turkey behind the wheel!:burnout:
You are too cute!:o

[LIGHTNIN1]

Now all you need is a big chicken on your hood. ;)

Don't forget the hat and CB radio. He'll have to brush up on CB language.:bandit:

[CBT]

Don't forget the hat and CBT radio. He'll have to brush up on CBT language.:bandit:
.....fixed.....:D

[Phrog_gunner]

.....fixed.....:D

You mean BJ language?

[SC Cheesehead]

Don't forget the hat and CB radio. He'll have to brush up on CB language.:bandit:


10-100, for sure. ;)

[Phrog_gunner]

10-100, for sure. ;)

I prefer the 10-69.............Grab it while its hot.

[Egon Spengler]

I am already familiar with CBT talk. I had a CBT in my first car

[LIGHTNIN1]

I am already familiar with CBT talk. I had a CBT in my first car

Better get those rear bumper mounted twin steel whip antennas mounted on the Marauder if you are going to be a Bandit.:bandit:

[Joe Walsh]

Here is the bottom line on the Federal government administering/being involved with Healthcare.
I don't know how anyone can disagree with the first cartoon, and then tell me that Healthcare "will be different":

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae326/JoeJWalsh/Governmentfixes.jpg



This is how I, and a majority of voters, feel about what has happened:
V........V........V........... .V.............V

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae326/JoeJWalsh/GovtHealthcare.jpg

[CBT]

Holy crap, this thread is still going?! Awesome!

[SC Cheesehead]

Holy crap, this thread is still going?! Awesome!


"The White House is aggressively touting the new healthcare law after failing to see an immediate bounce in polls from congressional approval of the legislation.
Faced with the prospect of a Democratic rout in November, the White House last month brought on communications expert Stephanie Cutter, a Capitol Hill veteran who is on her third tour of duty with the administration, to oversee healthcare messaging and at least minimize the political damage from the bill."
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/98311-white-house-seeks-missing-health-bounce

IMO, this thread will keep going unless one of two things happen:

1. Congress repeals the stoopid :censor: healthcare Obamanation.

2. The admins close this thread.

I'm really hoping for the former. ;)

[FordNut]

Latest healthcare news... Approximately half of the primary care physicians in Texas no longer accept Medicare. That's not the standard "we don't accept NEW Medicare patients", that's "sorry, I know you've been seeing me for 20 years but now that you're going on Medicare you have to find another doctor".

The government has excessive paperwork, long delays in payment, and low payment rates. Doctors in private practice can barely break even on Medicare patients and lose money on Medicaid patients. The federal government is trying to shift so many Medicaid costs back on the states that several states are planning to get out of their state-administered Medicaid plans which have provided coverage for more people than Medicaid would normally cover, leaving even more of the poor people that were supposed to benefit from healthcare reform uninsured.

[LIGHTNIN1]

Holy crap, this thread is still going?! Awesome!


Look at the Monster you created.

[Joe Walsh]

Yeah, but it still hasn't been 'LOCKED'....yet!

[CBT]

Look at the Monster you created.
Well in all honesty I thought any good info/debates would have ended peacefully at about the 5 page mark, but as this health care thing grows, so does the information and opinions. Interesting to say the least. I still don't like the thought of coverage for all at my expense, sorry.

[LIGHTNIN1]

I still don't like the thought of coverage for all at my expense, sorry.


I agree totally and this thing has not even started yet. My state legislature passed a bill to opt out of Obamacare because we can not afford the cost as a state that the feds will pass on to us. The governor(Democrat) vetoed it. Now the legislature is in the process of over riding his veto.

[FordNut]

I still don't like the thought of coverage for all at my expense, sorry.


I agree totally and this thing has not even started yet. My state legislature passed a bill to opt out of Obamacare because we can not afford the cost as a state that the feds will pass on to us. The governor(Democrat) vetoed it. Now the legislature is in the process of over riding his veto.

Next time he's up for election kick him out.

[SC Cheesehead]

Well in all honesty I thought any good info/debates would have ended peacefully at about the 5 page mark, but as this health care thing grows, so does the information and opinions. Interesting to say the least. I still don't like the thought of coverage for all at my expense, sorry.

Well, I think a key point to this thread still being around is that we've maintained a civil (albeit spirited, at times ;)) discourse on the topic.

This is an issue that is going to have profound ramifications on all of us for yeasrs to come if it plays out as-is, and the younger the person, the more impact it ill have.

I hope it stays alive and active for a while.

[Phrog_gunner]

, and the younger the person, the more impact it ill have.

So then it will have almost ZERO impact on you. ;)

[SC Cheesehead]

So then it will have almost ZERO impact on you. ;)

Good point. :D

Fortuantely, I'll prolly be long gone by the time the "reformed" healthcare program has fully bankrupted this country, while at the same time totally sending quality of care to http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/images/smilies/shithappens.gif. Guess we'll just leave it up to the 'youts to clean up the mess...

[FordNut]

News Flash: Health Care Law Will Increase Costs (as if we didn't already know this)

http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/stories/2010/05/17/daily29.html?s=industry&i=health_care

[kernie]

My first question in my first post on this thread was "just how much do you guys pay?" Noboby awnsered the question, perhaps it was a little personal. Here is an USA today article from last year saying the average family premiums was $13,375 per year, a staggering amount!

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-09-15-insurance-costs_N.htm

Sounds to me you guys are allready paying an incredible amount and then if you do need care you have to deal with insurance companies who will put the screws to you anyway they can.

The stress this must put on so many folks.

Just my opinion, :beer:

[SC Cheesehead]

My first question in my first post on this thread was "just how much do you guys pay?" Noboby awnsered the question, perhaps it was a little personal. Here is an USA today article from last year saying the average family premiums was $13,375 per year, a staggering amount!

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-09-15-insurance-costs_N.htm

Sounds to me you guys are allready paying an incredible amount and then if you do need care you have to deal with insurance companies who will put the screws to you anyway they can.

The stress this must put on so many folks.

Just my opinion, :beer:

What's considered an incredible amount? What if health insurance is a benefit provided by your employer? Was that factored into your comment? As for getting "the screws put to you" on what assumption is that based? What constitues a "screwing?"

I can guar-en-dam-tee you that the recently passed healthcare "reform" legislation is going to exacerbate rather than reduce the stress associated with health care.

One thing you need to understand kernie, this whole Obamanation doesn't have anything to do with improving health care, it's all about increasing government control over its citizens.

Control = power. When it comes right down to it, politicians don't give a rat's azz about the state of healthcare, the focus is on aquiring and maintaining power, the whole healthcare issue is nothing more than a red herring to accomplish that power grab.

[CBT]

what's considered an incredible amount? What if health insurance is a benefit provided by your employer? Was that factored into your comment? As for getting "the screws put to you" on what assumption is that based? What constitues a "screwing?"

i can guar-en-dam-tee you that the recently passed healthcare "reform" legislation is going to exacerbate rather than reduce the stress associated with health care.

one thing you need to understand kernie, this whole obamanation doesn't have anything to do with improving health care, it's all about increasing government control over its citizens.

control = power. When it comes right down to it, politicians don't give a rat's azz about the state of healthcare, the focus is on aquiring and maintaining power, the whole healthcare issue is nothing more than a red herring to accomplish that power grab.

......................
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