Headers/ Lower steering shaft

[Brian H]

Is :thinker:there anyway the lower steering shaft could be rotated 180 degrees to make room/clearence for shorties or Lt headers instead of raising the motor?...... Talk amongst ya'selves and get back with me.

[LeoVampire]

But after a year it is touching again espcialy in reverse.

So adding shim's and raising the engine a bit is the better bet or a combination of the 2.

I think I am just going to change out the mounts and see if it make's a difference. After all they have been in there for more than 6 years and might be squating more than they should be due to age and so forth.

I actualy wondered if there was a way to have a straight shaft put inplace with the same joints instead of the curved one it has now.

BTW I have the SW long tubes not the Kooks

[burt ragio]

You have two choices shim the motor mount or grind a little of the shaft. I found it easier to grind a little material of the shaft.

[musclemerc]

Actually Brian did'nt mention they were JBA's header's.... Since they are much bigger in size from the FRPP's yes, you will have to shim the DS motor mount 1/4" and still trim the steering shaft. Sorry Bro you can't re-invent the wheel on this one!

[ImpalaSlayer]

i think i have the worst pair of kooks in the world. ive ground almost as much as i care to off the shaft, loosened the column and moved it over and i barely have clearance. my next step is a shim.

[Dragcity]

Sounds like you and I are in the same boat then. I dare not take any more of my steering shaft. I am still hitting, under acceleration on left turns.

[musclemerc]

You have to do all that for Kooks? That's not good considering there specific to the Marauder. That's not good for the header tube or your Aluminum cylinder heads!

[ImpalaSlayer]

You have to do all that for Kooks? That's not good considering there specific to the Marauder. That's not good for the header tube or your Aluminum cylinder heads!

kooks are junk, ill never buy another pair. only reason i bought these is cause the price was right.

[Zack]

Just put a friggin dent in the header tube...SHEESH!

[Zack]

kooks are junk, ill never buy another pair. only reason i bought these is cause the price was right.


LOL what do you want for $1500, quality?

[ImpalaSlayer]

Just put a friggin dent in the header tube...SHEESH!

id have a pretty big friggin dent if i did that

[ImpalaSlayer]

LOL what do you want for $1500, quality?

hell id never pay that, i paied 750 brand new

[Joe Walsh]

My Kook's fit perfectly and I have a 1/2" of clearance between my driver side header tube and the steering shaft.

Rich Long, myself and several other members w/Kooks were comparing the clearance issues at the Ocean City, Md. meet 1-1/2 years ago.
IIRC: There were two different design steering shafts....:dunno:
One had plenty of clearance, one did not. Maybe various members can post pictures of their set-up.
I'll go take a few snapshots today.

[Dragcity]

Just put a friggin dent in the header tube...SHEESH!

Problem with me is. I didn't know I had the issue, 'til I was DONE. I could not find a way to get anything in there to ding that tube while installed.

And, there was NO way I was un-installing them at that point. Maybe some day i'll try again to strike that tube.

[Dragcity]

That is a great idea Joe...

[ImpalaSlayer]

My Kook's fit perfectly and I have a 1/2" of clearance between my driver side header tube and the steering shaft.

Rich Long, myself and several other members w/Kooks were comparing the clearance issues at the Ocean City, Md. meet 1-1/2 years ago.
IIRC: There were two different design steering shafts.
One had plenty of clearance, one did not. Maybe we variuos members can post pictures of their set-up.
I'll go take a few snapshots today.

i remember that Joe, it was long before i was doing nay real mods. ill go take some pics now as well.

[Joe Walsh]

Here ya' go....they fit like a glove!


http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae326/JoeJWalsh/IMG_1314.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae326/JoeJWalsh/IMG_1313.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae326/JoeJWalsh/IMG_1315.jpg

[ImpalaSlayer]

HOLY CRAP! wait till i upload these pics i just took.

PS i hate you Joe :D

[DOOM]

i think i have the worst pair of kooks in the world. ive ground almost as much as i care to off the shaft, loosened the column and moved it over and i barely have clearance. my next step is a shim.

People with "SW" have the same exact issue davey.

[ImpalaSlayer]

People with "SW" have the same exact issue davey.

its all junk Doom, over priced junk lol

[ImpalaSlayer]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/blaster250cr/IMG_1208.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/blaster250cr/IMG_1211.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/blaster250cr/IMG_1212.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/blaster250cr/IMG_1213.jpg

lil hard to see, my air compressor was in the to get the camera int he right spot, but you can definitly tell its nothing like Joes

[LeoVampire]

Here is an older pic of the problem I had to address.

19344

[Dragcity]

I'll try to get some tonight. Much like ImpalSlayer.

[Zack]

EDIT.
Kooks screwed up on the #6 cylinder.

[DOOM]

its all junk Doom, over priced junk lol

50RWHP gain for me!

I cant call that junk! :P

[ImpalaSlayer]

Its pretty obvious the late 03's and 04's are the ones with fitment issues.

so what the hell did they change?

[musclemerc]

Here is an older pic of the problem I had to address.

19344

Damn! you took alot off that shaft... WoW!

[LeoVampire]

Damn! you took alot off that shaft... WoW!

The shaft has a bend in it from the factory and an indentation in it as well.

When it turns it does an oblong rotation the way the shaft is made.

[DOOM]

so what the hell did they change?

Just to piss you off davey boy. :lol:

[musclemerc]

The shaft has a bend in it from the factory and an indentation in it as well.

When it turns it does an oblong rotation the way the shaft is made.

Ummmm... I know. I thought my install was a pain... But these are far more expensive, you would think for the cost the Mfg would have done better. :shake:

[ImpalaSlayer]

ummmm... I know. I thought my install was a pain... But these are far more expensive, you would think for the cost the mfg would have done better. :shake:


exactly!!!!!!

[LeoVampire]

Ummmm... I know. I thought my install was a pain... But these are far more expensive, you would think for the cost the Mfg would have done better. :shake:

So I guess something differnt needed to be done for the 04.

This is why I tryed to get a new type of motor mount made so no shim would be needed but with little interest the company decieded not to bother.

[Zack]

so what the hell did they change?

I edited my post....#6 tube is made wrong. At least it looks like it in the pics.

[ImpalaSlayer]

I edited my post....#6 tube is made wrong. At least it looks like it in the pics.

i stick to my original statement then...


JUNK!

[Hotrauder]

I don't understand a lot of what I both know and don't know about our cars but I do know that the shim insert works perfectly, takes 10 minutes and costs zip. What is the issue? :dunno: Dennis

[DOOM]

I don't understand a lot of what I both know and don't know about our cars but I do know that the shim insert works perfectly, takes 10 minutes and costs zip. What is the issue? :dunno: Dennis

Mine is shimmed and still slightly rubs.

[bob6364]

Problem with me is. I didn't know I had the issue, 'til I was DONE. I could not find a way to get anything in there to ding that tube while installed.

And, there was NO way I was un-installing them at that point. Maybe some day i'll try again to strike that tube.

with the headers installed the right piece of wood and a hammer works

[Paul T. Casey]

Mine looks like Joe's. Better quality in '03, or maybe they knew who the "2 percenters " were going to be back then.

[LeoVampire]

with the headers installed the right piece of wood and a hammer works

Crack the pipe or a weld then you have problems.

Rather find another solution to the problem that isn't as costly or time comsuming if that happens.

I just want to see if I can have a straight shaft made to work with the joints that is stonger and yet narrow.

[Paul T. Casey]

Will the '03 shaft work in an '04? I don't recall any of the '03's having this issue.

[Paul T. Casey]

Probably not a cheap fix.

[LeoVampire]

Will the '03 shaft work in an '04? I don't recall any of the '03's having this issue.

I am just wondering why they changed the design in the first place?

But a good question.

[musclemerc]

Will the '03 shaft work in an '04? I don't recall any of the '03's having this issue.

My 03 has the same bent shaft, I would assume they all share the same SS

[DOOM]

Will the '03 shaft work in an '04? I don't recall any of the '03's having this issue.

There are 03's with the same issue.

[Spectragod]

My SW's don't don't rub, they just barley touched at first, I loosened the column, and placed a flat body spoon between the tube a steering shaft, re-tightened the column bolts, and removed the spoon. They have never made contact since.

[musclemerc]

My SW's don't don't rub, they just barley touched at first, I loosened the column, and placed a flat body spoon between the tube a steering shaft, re-tightened the column bolts, and removed the spoon. They have never made contact since.


I fixed it for you.

[Spectragod]

I fixed it for you.

Gee thanks, I guess that's what brothers are for.:beer:

[Phrog_gunner]

Gee thanks, I guess that's what brothers are for.:beer:

Does the wife know you have been using her silverware to work on the car?

[cougar9150]

Mine is a 03, rubs on the shaft and bolt. Also have to remove the solenoid to install/remove the starter.

I shifted the steering shaft over and it rubs occasionally. I will be cutting the bolt down before it's all back together.

Nothing between the years of MMs have anything to do with it. Kooks has crappy if any quality control on these particular headers. Pretty much low volume part made to order for the most part equals little consistency between orders.

[Spectragod]

Does the wife know you have been using her silverware to work on the car?


Uhhhhhhhh, body spoon, not a spoon for eating. And... she keeps me away from anything sharp.:D She does make sure I get my Thorazine though.

[Spectragod]

Body spoon......for those that need a visual.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=72785&group_ID=1776&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

[Kennyrauder]

Get a "duck bill " hydraulic mini jack... heat header red..NOT WHITE!!!!!!! Presto press it in & you will be good to go.

[LeoVampire]

And then take it to a machinest shop and see about having one made that will clear the headers without an issue and still work just fine for stearing.

[PSG]

leovampire , you could take a ride with your car up to Borgeson in torrington ,they make all the steering shafts fof ford and gm, and they can probrably make you one that will fix the problem, and they are very reasonable, i have had them make me several in the past for streetrods and lifted trucks.and if you show them the issue they could most likely manufacture them as needed once they have the measurments

[LeoVampire]

leovampire , you could take a ride with your car up to Borgeson in torrington ,they make all the steering shafts fof ford and gm, and they can probrably make you one that will fix the problem, and they are very reasonable, i have had them make me several in the past for streetrods and lifted trucks.and if you show them the issue they could most likely manufacture them as needed once they have the measurments

:D I will be taking a trip up there when she is back in my hands then and see what they say!

Thanks for the info!!

[PSG]

they were always helpful, i use to have them make up shafts for the dodge trucks that had those blocks at the steering box, and make shafts to eliminate the rag joints on lifted trucks, and they usually would have it in a couple of days, and it was never more than a couple hundred for the most elaborate thing you could want.i havent had anything done in a year or two but i cant imagine they have changed at all and if you mention to them that this is something that there might be a market for, it may help the price

[LeoVampire]

they were always helpful, i use to have them make up shafts for the dodge trucks that had those blocks at the steering box, and make shafts to eliminate the rag joints on lifted trucks, and they usually would have it in a couple of days, and it was never more than a couple hundred for the most elaborate thing you could want.i havent had anything done in a year or two but i cant imagine they have changed at all and if you mention to them that this is something that there might be a market for, it may help the price

I checked out their web site already as soon as you told me and sent them an E-mail as well.

I will see what they can come up with and told them a lot of Marauder owners may be interested.

Especialy Doom seeing they do polished stainless shafts and joints as well :lol:

[Glenn]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm - never had that problem!

Glenn Ford:burnout:

[LeoVampire]

they were always helpful, i use to have them make up shafts for the dodge trucks that had those blocks at the steering box, and make shafts to eliminate the rag joints on lifted trucks, and they usually would have it in a couple of days, and it was never more than a couple hundred for the most elaborate thing you could want.i havent had anything done in a year or two but i cant imagine they have changed at all and if you mention to them that this is something that there might be a market for, it may help the price

I went to see them and they took measurments with the shaft both in the car and out of it and already have a plan in mind to solve the problems with my SW headers permanantly and without spacers in the motor mounts.

When it is ready I will post pics and give a listing on the part and price for everyone to snatch up.

Nice people to say the least and yes it was thier shaft to start with and were very surprised on what car it went on.

So thanks again PSG!! :2thumbs:

[ImpalaSlayer]

I went to see them and they took measurments with the shaft both in the car and out of it and already have a plan in mind to solve the problems with my SW headers permanantly and without spacers in the motor mounts.

When it is ready I will post pics and give a listing on the part and price for everyone to snatch up.

Nice people to say the least and yes it was thier shaft to start with and were very surprised on what car it went on.

So thanks again PSG!! :2thumbs:


cool, cant wait! ill definitely be ordering one!

[PSG]

glad it helped, i still would like to hear your car in person, before i pull the trigger in an exhaust purchase, though i just started a big addition on my shop, so i the cars are kind of on hold.

[Black_Out]

Why the hell wouldn't they just add more of a gradual bend in the tube to clear the shaft? I can't see it affecting performance at all.

[LeoVampire]

glad it helped, i still would like to hear your car in person, before i pull the trigger in an exhaust purchase, though i just started a big addition on my shop, so i the cars are kind of on hold.

I posted a video clip of the exhaust on here finaly.

[LeoVampire]

Why the hell wouldn't they just add more of a gradual bend in the tube to clear the shaft? I can't see it affecting performance at all.

it hits the headers on both the SW and Kooks without some intervention and inginuity.

[PSG]

my computer wouldn't load it for some reason, but my shop is only like 12 miles from waterbury.

[SMOKE]

Watching....I've got a Kooks install pending and I'm lifting knowledge on all the angles regarding these things to ensure I know what to expect before my installer does. Shim sounds cheap and easy considering I don't even know if there will be a rub...the set isn't in the car yet. But if chaos erupts and things need a grinder taken to them I'd like to see if an engineered part will do the job and look clean (but I don't need polished lol :rolleyes:)

Best,
Jonathan

[musclemerc]

Has anyone actually tried to contact the Mfg.? I'm sorry but for the cost of LT's there is no reason to shim the motor or grind the DS. Sometimes a little bitching goes a long way!

[Joe Walsh]

Has anyone actually tried to contact the Mfg.? I'm sorry but for the cost of LT's there is no reason to shim the motor or grind the DS. Sometimes a little bitching goes a long way!

I agree!
There obviously is a lot of tolerance (too much) in both manufacturers headers.
Some fit fine, others hit and interfere with the steering shaft.
If my Kooks had hit my header shaft during my install, the first thing I would have done is call Kooks and tell them what was happening.

You shouldn't have to tweek, bend, heat, hammer, grind, shim ANYTHING with a pair of $1,000+ headers!!!...:shake:

[LeoVampire]

Has anyone actually tried to contact the Mfg.? I'm sorry but for the cost of LT's there is no reason to shim the motor or grind the DS. Sometimes a little bitching goes a long way!

Lets face it even with a template on the headers there is always a chance the person making a new set accidently make's a mistake reproducing the product.

As long as the problem isn't too outragis and a not too costly fix can be had I am not going to go crazy on the manufacturer of the product especialy if it will take a month to get a new part replacment and I am looking at hours of work for the change over as well.

It is not stoping the operation on my Marauder and I can get a nice part to work around the problem for only $100.00 or so dollars I will deal with that instead.

I told them that on the Kooks it is usualy the knuckle on the stearing shadt that is the issue where on mine it's the shaft it's self. They said they are going to make a shaft that has smaller rounded knuckle joints to solve the kooks problem end of it and a straight stronger and narrower shaft for the SW header problem all in one shaft.

So this should fix both problems guys and gals are experiencing.

I wanted to make sure what is made will help us all not just a few of us if possable so I addressed both sides of the issue with them.

[musclemerc]

I agree!
There obviously is a lot of tolerance (too much) in both manufacturers headers.
Some fit fine, others hit and interfere with the steering shaft.
If my Kooks had hit my header shaft during my install, the first thing I would have done is call Kooks and tell them what was happening.

You shouldn't have to tweek, bend, heat, hammer, grind, shim ANYTHING with a pair of $1,000+ headers!!!...:shake:

Amen! :bows:

[Dragcity]

There inlies the problem, see? We didn't know we had a rubbing issue until AFTER the install was complete. It is a ton of work to R&R the header. I am not willing to dent the hearder pipe. Being so close to the exhaust port, that will effect eficiency.

Frankly, I think those of us with issues, should get a credit from Kooks (or SW) for the cost of the work around part... Way easier and cheaper to put in a new steering shaft, than to replace a header.

I totally understand this shat happens with custom parts, but things should be made right. Lets get these made and installed and then get Kooks to help us out.

Please let me know when this part is available.\

[LeoVampire]

There inlies the problem, see? We didn't know we had a rubbing issue until AFTER the install was complete. It is a ton of work to R&R the header. I am not willing to dent the hearder pipe. Being so close to the exhaust port, that will effect eficiency.

Frankly, I think those of us with issues, should get a credit from Kooks (or SW) for the cost of the work around part... Way easier and cheaper to put in a new steering shaft, than to replace a header.

I totally understand this shat happens with custom parts, but things should be made right. Lets get these made and installed and then get Kooks to help us out.

Please let me know when this part is available.\

They are working on one now and should be ready for a test fit next week. I will head there and see what we all think of it.

If it's done I will post and let everyone know and give them a link for the part with info.

[ntd]

They are working on one now and should be ready for a test fit next week. I will head there and see what we all think of it.

If it's done I will post and let everyone know and give them a link for the part with info.

Sounds interesting I might need one keep us posted

[Dennis Reinhart]

You have to do all that for Kooks? That's not good considering there specific to the Marauder. That's not good for the header tube or your Aluminum cylinder heads!


Kooks new headers are great there is absolutely no need for grinding, yes there labor intensive but well worth it.

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/mkk.jpg

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/mkkm.jpg

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/mkkooks2.jpg

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/mkkooks4.jpg

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/mkkooks6.jpg


http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1268859336-IMG_0452.jpg

[Glenn]

Beautiful SS work Dennis. :beer:

Glenn :burnout:

[cougar9150]

They are working on one now and should be ready for a test fit next week. I will head there and see what we all think of it.

If it's done I will post and let everyone know and give them a link for the part with info.

Definitely keep us posted Leo as I will be buying one as soon as they are available.


Kooks new headers are great there is absolutely no need for grinding, yes there labor intensive but well worth it.

So your saying they changed the design all new sets will fit fine now? What exactly did they correct to relieve the numerous problems (i.e. the steering shaft interference, starter removal issues, and EGR tube issues)

How many have you installed since this change was made? Just wondering about consistency between runs because if my Kooks crack a 3rd time I will be looking at new headers and had planned on going w/SS works or a shorty setup.

[Joe Walsh]

Dennis, that last picture you posted (dated 3/16/2010) looks like a set of Stainless Works headers, not Kooks headers...:confused:

[TooManyFords]

For the record, I was one of the early adopters of Kooks headers, and they did not interfere with my steering shaft. Clearly there must have been different runs of said shafts that may or may not need adjustments.

As for needing to hammer on expensive headers, you've never seen how different the 67-68 camaro big block headers can be. Talk about a car that should have all the kinks worked out 30+ years later, I still have friends that have to "adjust" the headers with "hammers" when doing installs.

:D

[LeoVampire]

For the record, I was one of the early adopters of Kooks headers, and they did not interfere with my steering shaft. Clearly there must have been different runs of said shafts that may or may not need adjustments.

As for needing to hammer on expensive headers, you've never seen how different the 67-68 camaro big block headers can be. Talk about a car that should have all the kinks worked out 30+ years later, I still have friends that have to "adjust" the headers with "hammers" when doing installs.

:D

If I can find a way to preserve the parts that cost so much money with a much cheaper work around that still looks good I would rather do that.

For all I know trying to make the header work with an indentation may damage the ceramic coating I paid a lot for in the first place.

If it had been a cheap set that could easily be replaced sure what is the big deal even if it does change the flow a bit in that pipe.

But not the case or option I want to risk right now.

And Dennis can you show us pictures of where the starter is sitting with those headers as well as the stearing shaft how it looks next
to them?

[cougar9150]

Hey Leo, any update on the new steering shaft setup yet? Just curious as I needed to still remove yet more material from my stock piece to keep it from clipping the #6 tube :mad2:.

Would like to get one of these shafts on order yesterday.

Thanks.

[Speed]

For the record, I was one of the early adopters of Kooks headers, and they did not interfere with my steering shaft.

Was this prior to the MMR shortblock that you currently have or afterwards?

I'm thinkinking with the MMR shortblock, I should have same amount of selections of headers as Cobras do, correct?

Would I still have same issue with the driveshaft regardless of choice and are the Cobra guys having the same issue with installs?

[LeoVampire]

Hey Leo, any update on the new steering shaft setup yet? Just curious as I needed to still remove yet more material from my stock piece to keep it from clipping the #6 tube :mad2:.

Would like to get one of these shafts on order yesterday.

Thanks.

My Marauder is @ Progressive right now getting a new door switch pannel and they are redoing the window regulator mounting.

After the accident several of the lights went out on the door switch pannel so they just ordered a new one to replace it with.

And I noticed that the window regulator is moving the inner door pannel since they did the work on her so they are taking care of that as well.

They gave me a free rental car in the mean time while they take care of the few problems. And still waiting on the ETA of the door sticker they didn't put on and had to order.

So without the Marauder I can't go get the test fitting done @ Borgeson but they havn't called me yet to head up there anyways.

[ImpalaSlayer]

Was this prior to the MMR shortblock that you currently have or afterwards?

I'm thinkinking with the MMR shortblock, I should have same amount of selections of headers as Cobras do, correct?

Would I still have same issue with the driveshaft regardless of choice and are the Cobra guys having the same issue with installs?

what short block or even long block you have will make zero difference. they are all the same in that reguard

[ImpalaSlayer]

Dennis, that last picture you posted (dated 3/16/2010) looks like a set of Stainless Works headers, not Kooks headers...:confused:

that, or Kooks severally changed the design of the pass side header.

[TooManyFords]

what short block or even long block you have will make zero difference. they are all the same in that reguard

Correct. ;)

[MrBluGruv]

whoops, I can read. :(