starter question

[LANDY]

as some of you know my car wont start.
i took out the old starter installed a new, it cranked one time and thats it no more after that.
now i hooked up direct 12v on the old one, the gear slides in the shaft into position but wont turn, wire gets hot feeling like the selinoid is shorted out
same with the new one after i took it out and did the same.

question is: is the gear suppose to turn when after it slides?
i would think so
what ya'll think?

[FordNut]

It should turn after the gear kicks out. What kind of 12 volt source do you have? Maybe you could take them to AutoZone and have them tested on their machine?

[LANDY]

at my job, its a RV power converter. 110vac comes into one side then goes out 13.6vdc to charge battery on the RV. thats how we test every 12v anything at work

[Phrog_gunner]

Maybe you could take them to AutoZone and have them tested on their machine?

+1 its free and takes everything else out of the equation because they put the proper voltage and current to each post on the solenoid.

[justbob]

I must ask, but it had a REALLY good ground hooked up right?

[LANDY]

I must ask, but it had a REALLY good ground hooked up right? yes sir, i made a connector for the ground and 12v

[scruff]

i dont think that converter has enough amps to test a starter with,,use a spare battery or use the one in your car and run some leeds from it got any booster cables?

[LANDY]

its a 55amp coverter,i believe its got enough power.
i also tried jumping it while it was in the car with the ignition on. (nothing)
and hooked it up to the MM battery.(nothing)

[justbob]

I was just asking because I tested mine unmouted and it took three grounds before it would spin, just like yours. I would check engine ground.

[LANDY]

I was just asking because I tested mine unmouted and it took three grounds before it would spin, just like yours. I would check engine ground.
thats pretty intense.

[FordNut]

That's why I asked, it takes a lot of current and any loose connections will cause problems. You do know batteries are generally rated 600-1000 cranking amps, right? That's a lot more than 55 amps.

[LANDY]

That's why I asked, it takes a lot of current and any loose connections will cause problems. You do know batteries are generally rated 600-1000 cranking amps, right? That's a lot more than 55 amps.:shake: to me how didnt i think of the obious.
thats it tomorrow im goingt to autozone to test both starters.
shame on me

[FordNut]

Check the motor grounds. Maybe just for testing you could connect another wire from the engine to the battery.

[scruff]

you might want to test your battery while your at it and check all connections between it and starter

[LANDY]

offcourse i load tested the battery (ok)
checked fuse 101 (ok) got voltage in and out
checked ignition relay (ok)
checked fuse #9 (ok) and volts in and out
then i stopped there it was getting too dark.
i will keep troubleshooting tomorrow

[LANDY]

offcourse i load tested the battery (ok)
checked fuse 101 (ok) got voltage in and out
checked ignition relay (ok)
checked fuse #9 (ok) and volts in and out
then i stopped there it was getting too dark.
i will keep troubleshooting tomorrow

well today i got the car started but have not fixed the problem yet.
the ignition switch has 12v coming in but sends 12vdc out when it feels like it.
so i jumped the voltage in with the out on the ignition switch.
and ran a separate ground from the starter to the batt. it cranked up several times.
thats the only way it would start.
im thinking either the ground in the ign.. switch, or the swicth itself.
i will check tomorrow. any other ideas will would help. thanks
and yes the engine is grounded to the frame.

[FordNut]

Wild guess, bad ignition switch?

[boatmangc]

Take a digital voltmeter, connect it to battery ground and the other end to ground at the starter.

Set the meter on VDC, crank (or try to crank) while watching the meter. If you see anything above 1.5 VDC the ground is bad. If that is the case do the same test from the ground at the battery to the ground cable on the block.

Any reading anywhere >1.5 VDC doing this test indicates a bad' wire, connection, connector, etc.

If you find a lower voltage ie:<1.5 VDC look elsewhere.

Do the same test on your keyswitch. check your 12VDC+ in and the other end on 12VDC out from the keyswitch.

Best way I know to find faulty wires, switches etc.

If you don't find it that way get in touch this weekend and I'll be happy to walk you through some more steps.

Gary

[2vmodular]

if you get can get the starter to turn when you jump +12V directly to the "M" terminal, but not when you jump to the "S" terminal, it's likely that you've burned the contacts inside the solenoid. a common cause of this problem is a bad battery cable harness with high resistance in between the battery and the starter.


as some of you know my car wont start.
i took out the old starter installed a new, it cranked one time and thats it no more after that.
now i hooked up direct 12v on the old one, the gear slides in the shaft into position but wont turn, wire gets hot feeling like the selinoid is shorted out
same with the new one after i took it out and did the same.

question is: is the gear suppose to turn when after it slides?
i would think so
what ya'll think?

http://www.p71interceptor.com/starter/disassembled/PICT6197.jpg

http://www.p71interceptor.com/starter/disassembled/PICT6197-vi.jpg

http://www.p71interceptor.com/starter/disassembled/PICT6275-vi.jpg

http://www.p71interceptor.com/starter/disassembled/PICT6308-vi.jpg

http://www.p71interceptor.com/starter/disassembled/PICT6323-vi.jpg

[2vmodular]

the battery cable harness provides a direct connection from the battery to a ground terminal on one of the transmission bellhousing bolts near the starter. if you have to run a seperate ground wire to the starter, you've got problems with your battery cable harness.



and ran a separate ground from the starter to the batt. it cranked up several times.
thats the only way it would start.

here is a crownvic battery cable harness out of the car

http://www.p71interceptor.com/starter/batterycables/PICT7235-vi.jpg

and the back of the cylinder head showing how the battery cable harness is routed

http://www.p71interceptor.com/starter/batterycables/kinger87img3435u.jpg

the engine with transmission attached showing how the ground ring terminal attaches to the transmission bellhousing bolt above the starter

http://www.p71interceptor.com/starter/batterycables/kinger87img3436.jpg

[LANDY]

well today after some troubleshooting, i found 12 vdc on the frame.
i tested it with a spare good batt with a voltmeter.
from frame to neg on battery i have 11.6vdc.
now im really lost.
i have tested the hole ignition circuit. its good

[FordNut]

Ground is bad. Connect a new one. Connect it to the battery, engine, and chassis.

[FordNut]

You might check the ground lugs that connect to the chassis right beside the battery, I believe that is where the main chassis ground is connected with the OEM negative battery wiring harness.

[LANDY]

found a bad ground to the motor, and our ground is in the front of the pass side head.
i was looking for it in the rear side which is the same place crown vics have it.
fixed the connection and everuthing is fine.
i highly thank everyone, especialy Brian (FordNut) for keeping up with this post and helping me.
LANDY

[LANDY]

need a service manual for the MM right away.

[FordNut]

Glad you got it fixed Landy.

[Brian H]

Now call the local recyclers and tell them "nevermind"

[2vmodular]

grounding the starter on the front of the passenger's cylinder head isn't such a good location. this area gets huge amounts of road spray when you drive the car. lots of water = corrosion issues. plus in the northeast & midwest, chloride salts are applied to the roads during the winter which will really accelerate the corrosion process too.

on the crownvic, the starter is grounded on the back of the engine which is a relatively protected area. it's common to see older crownvics with heavily pitted aluminum engine front covers around here. but these cars almost never have any issues with the starter bellhousing ground terminal. the cable terminal ends near the battery are a different story though.

[MENINBLK]

its a 55amp coverter,i believe its got enough power.
i also tried jumping it while it was in the car with the ignition on. (nothing)
and hooked it up to the MM battery.(nothing)

55 amps ??

DUDE, Do you realize how many cold cranking amps
come out of your car's battery ???

I think its gonna take more than 55 amps to crank this starter,
even though you aren't cranking the engine with it.