Question about Dash Panels

[LeoVampire]

Does anyone know if a dash pannel from a Crown Vic or Grand Marques will fit our car that has a cruise control light in it??

@ the same time does anyone on here have the wiring diagram for our car's to help me track down why the O/D light dosn't operate on the dash of my 04 Marauder?

Yep it is time for me to ask for help here.

[gdmjoe]

The Crown Victoria | Grand Marquis dash panel(s) will fit.

However, to swap-in one of their guage clusters would necessitate some re-wiring.

[LeoVampire]

The Crown Victoria | Grand Marquis dash panel(s) will fit.

However, to swap-in one of their guage clusters would necessitate some re-wiring.

How about just the black face of it where the indicators are for the lights like ABS and OD and so forth that is the only piece I am thinking of changing to add the Cruise control light to my dash.

[Marauderjack]

Just curious.....why is a cruise control light so important??:confused:

[LeoVampire]

Just curious.....why is a cruise control light so important??:confused:

It isn't important just figured while I was in there maybe see if I can add one and make it a bit more unique that way.

My main concern is actualy getting the O/D light to work if you want me to be specific.

And why did you ask?

[FordNut]

I think the GM and CV instrument clusters are digital, and don't have a tach.

[fastblackmerc]

Have you checked the bulb?

I'm working on a cruise control light on the spare MM dash cluster I have.

[Marauderjack]

The "O/D OFF" is probably just the bulb...pretty easy to remove the instrument cluster and I would replace all the bulbs while you are at it!!:beer:

The bezel from a CV or GM may not work since the Marauder one is specific for the openings......do CV's and GM's even have tach's....just not familiar?? It may work fine....just never thought about it??:shake:

Go for it and let us know what you find......

Good Luck

[LeoVampire]

Have you checked the bulb?

I'm working on a cruise control light on the spare MM dash cluster I have.

Yep the bulb is fine and was seated properly. Plus the bulb locking holder was in the insterment cluster tight.

[LeoVampire]

The "O/D OFF" is probably just the bulb...pretty easy to remove the instrument cluster and I would replace all the bulbs while you are at it!!:beer:

The bezel from a CV or GM may not work since the Marauder one is specific for the openings......do CV's and GM's even have tach's....just not familiar?? It may work fine....just never thought about it??:shake:

Go for it and let us know what you find......

Good Luck

My O/D light has not worked since day one of picking up the Marader brand new @ the dealership. So I did not even realize it had one until I took it apart today.

[LeoVampire]

There is an unused spot in the dash insterment cluster not being used wich is above the ABS indicator light.

In the rear of the pannel on the black plug towards the center of the dash the number #7 spot has no wire going to it so it is possable to add a light and cut out in the pannel for a cruise control light and a wire in the plug to make it happen.

Unfortunatly that dosn't solve the original problem with the O/D light. But it is possable to add a cruise control light to what we already have without changing it out.

But the number 5 spot on the board is where the O/D light is.

20095

20096

[BLACKMARAUDER04]

The light only lights up when you turn off your OD with the button under the shift lever.

[LeoVampire]

The light only lights up when you turn off your OD with the button under the shift lever.

I have been using the O/D button on my Marauder since the get go almost 6 years ago and just doing it by feel and the RPMS vs the speed to realize when it is on and off.

I will say again the light has never ever worked on the dash not ever never ever since day 1 and brand new! Had no idea it had one till today and Zack made me look for it.

So again I ask does anyone know or have the wrieing diagram for the car to help me track down why the O/D light might not work in the first place?
I have been looking through the internet trying to find a reference for it but so far hitting a brick wall.

[FordNut]

The light only lights up when you turn off your OD with the button under the shift lever.

If the trans has a problem such as excessive slippage or high temperature, it will flash the light.

[Zack]

Have you put an ohm meter on the bulb yet?

[LeoVampire]

Have you put an ohm meter on the bulb yet?

Yep I did but thanks for checking first thing I thought of seeing I have no power right now to check it in a differnt spot.

[Sully008]

IIRC, the Crown Vics don't have a cruise control light either. At least my '04 CVLX didn't. I was confused when I first used the CC in it, no light on the dash and I didn' know if it was working until I took my foot off the pedal.

[LeoVampire]

IIRC, the Crown Vics don't have a cruise control light either. At least my '04 CVLX didn't. I was confused when I first used the CC in it, no light on the dash and I didn' know if it was working until I took my foot off the pedal.

In the 06 CV's there is a light with a speedometer and needle that lights up green on the lower right hand side I saw in a write up on line. And almost the same set up for the Grand Marquies next to the tracktion control light it showed in the picture. Actualy on this one it is #12 next to the O/D light @ the bottom right hand side

http://archiesfordstore.com/07FORDCROWNVIC.pdf

[RF Overlord]

Unfortunately, there's no easy way to check the circuit for the O/D Off light. One side gets power from somewhere on the instrument cluster, the other side is normally open and brought to ground by the PCM when the button on the shifter is depressed. The only thing I can think of is to ground the wire that comes from the PCM to the instrument cluster. It's a 20 ga. WH/LG wire from pin 12 at the PCM to pin 5 at instrument cluster connector C2220b.

[LeoVampire]

Unfortunately, there's no easy way to check the circuit for the O/D Off light. One side gets power from somewhere on the instrument cluster, the other side is normally open and brought to ground by the PCM when the button on the shifter is depressed. The only thing I can think of is to ground the wire that comes from the PCM to the instrument cluster. It's a 20 ga. WH/LG wire from pin 12 at the PCM to pin 5 at instrument cluster connector C2220b.

I thought pin #3 on the left hand side plug of the pannel is the one for the O/D? And on the right hand side it is pin #5


http://s95316603.onlinehome.us/cvpi/Speedo/Speedo-All.pdf

http://s95316603.onlinehome.us/cvpi/Speedo/Speedo-CrownVic.jpg

(TCIL) reference Transmision control indicator lamp

On one of them page 2 is the reference to the O/D lamp


I found this by accident someone was trying to add a Marauder dash set up to a Crown Victoria

[RF Overlord]

I have the factory wiring manual. Pin 3 on C2220b is for the O/D Off light on a CV or GM analogue instrument cluster. For the Marauder instrument cluster it is pin 5.

[LeoVampire]

I have the factory wiring manual. Pin 3 on C2220b is for the O/D Off light on a CV or GM analogue instrument cluster. For the Marauder instrument cluster it is pin 5.

So the PCM is actualy what controls it as far as turning the light on and off in the dash?

[RF Overlord]

Yes, it's a simple transistor switch to ground on Pin 12.

*EDIT* Pin 12 on the PCM goes to Pin 5 on the instrument cluster connector...

[LeoVampire]

Yes, it's a simple transistor switch to ground on Pin 12.

*EDIT* Pin 12 on the PCM goes to Pin 5 on the instrument cluster connector...

So If I went to the dealer with this what do you think they would say I needed?

Seeing it has been an issue forever I am going to see if I can get them to own up to the repair.

[RF Overlord]

Well, it's one of 3 things...(in no special order)

1. Bad instrument cluster
2. Bad wiring from instrument cluster to PCM
3. Bad PCM

You definitely do NOT want to pay for a replacement of either #1 or #3...#2 depends entirely on the skill of the technician doing the troubleshooting.

On a slightly happier note, there may be a solution to your cruise control indicator question. Pin 1 on the Vehicle Speed Control Actuator is called "Cruise set indicator control" and is only used by the digital cluster option...it's not connected to anything otherwise. Maybe if you can put a meter on that while you engage the cruise, it might give a +V or a closure to ground you can use for a bulb. The manual doesn't give a signalling state.

[gdmjoe]

FordNut - I think the GM and CV instrument clusters are digital,
They can be, however, most are analog.

http://www.gdmjoe.com/gothvic/interior/lhfront.jpg


and don't have a tach.
2006+ got a tach ...

http://www.moldyrabbit.com/liquid/web/06CrownVic_gaugesm.jpg

However, there are SEVERAL other differences that preclude a cluster-swap. i.e. CV / GM cluster has the following guages - oil pressure, voltage. And pre-2006 does not have a tach' ( as you noted )
.

[FordNut]

They can be, however, most are analog.

http://www.gdmjoe.com/gothvic/interior/lhfront.jpg


2006+ got a tach ...

http://www.moldyrabbit.com/liquid/web/06CrownVic_gaugesm.jpg

However, there are SEVERAL other differences that preclude a cluster-swap. i.e. CV / GM cluster has the following guages - oil pressure, voltage. And pre-2006 does not have a tach' ( as you noted )
.

That's the CV Sport, isn't it? I thought the standard CV/GM was digital. Maybe I'm mistaken, wouldn't be the first time!

[FordNut]

So If I went to the dealer with this what do you think they would say I needed?

Seeing it has been an issue forever I am going to see if I can get them to own up to the repair.

They will probably change the PCM, then the instrument cluster, then the wiring harness. And they won't warranty it.

Troubleshooting:
1. Find the pin from the PCM that turns it on. Ground the wire/pin and see if the light comes on. It won't hurt the PCM to ground the pin, just make sure it's the right one. You can ground it with a jumper wire (test lead with alligator clips on both ends) and a sewing needle or straight pin to poke through the wire insulation. I'll see if I can find the PCM pinout.

[FordNut]

Circuit 911, WH/LG colored wire, pin 5 on cluster connector, pin 12 on pcm connector.

[gdmjoe]

FordNut - That's the CV Sport, isn't it?
Yeppers. Same one that I had when I met you in 2004 .....

http://www.gdmjoe.com/dynotune00.jpg
*Team Ford - Atlanta


I thought the standard CV/GM was digital.
Given that it was an option, and the fact that 75% of the production CV are police / fleet, I would expect the digital dash to be very limited. *But don't have any #s to back that up.


Maybe I'm mistaken, wouldn't be the first time!
No! No! It's too late now to say you're sorry. :D

[LeoVampire]

Well, it's one of 3 things...(in no special order)

1. Bad instrument cluster
2. Bad wiring from instrument cluster to PCM
3. Bad PCM

You definitely do NOT want to pay for a replacement of either #1 or #3...#2 depends entirely on the skill of the technician doing the troubleshooting.

On a slightly happier note, there may be a solution to your cruise control indicator question. Pin 1 on the Vehicle Speed Control Actuator is called "Cruise set indicator control" and is only used by the digital cluster option...it's not connected to anything otherwise. Maybe if you can put a meter on that while you engage the cruise, it might give a +V or a closure to ground you can use for a bulb. The manual doesn't give a signalling state.

I have another question in that book you have does it show where the wires go from the O/D switch button? I was reading something on the net about the sensor in the tranny also transmitting info to the PCM that operate's the light for the O/D and the PCM causes the light to flash out a code once the sensor shows problem data.

Is it possable that the piece in there is not transmitting the info to the PCM which would keep the light off?

[LeoVampire]

Circuit 911, WH/LG colored wire, pin 5 on cluster connector, pin 12 on pcm connector.


Thanks for the info and PDf files.

[FordNut]

I have another question in that book you have does it show where the wires go from the O/D switch button? I was reading something on the net about the sensor in the tranny also transmitting info to the PCM that operate's the light for the O/D and the PCM causes the light to flash out a code once the sensor shows problem data.

Is it possable that the piece in there is not transmitting the info to the PCM which would keep the light off?

I think it's in the pcm connector pinout list, hopefully it's on the first page since I didn't send both pages of the list for that connector. The switch goes to the PCM, then the PCM sends the signal to the transmission from one circuit and sends the signal to the indicator from a different circuit.

BTW, do my "step 1" test, then depending on the outcome, maybe "step 2" will verify the pcm function with a voltmeter.

[LeoVampire]

I think it's in the pcm connector pinout list, hopefully it's on the first page since I didn't send both pages of the list for that connector. The switch goes to the PCM, then the PCM sends the signal to the transmission from one circuit and sends the signal to the indicator from a different circuit.

BTW, do my "step 1" test, then depending on the outcome, maybe "step 2" will verify the pcm function with a voltmeter.

Right now I have to wait to run the tests unfortunatly. I am still working on the Altinator paint and it won't be ready till hook up till tomarrow.

Just trying to gather information so I can go through a lot of it in one shot instead of having to come back and ask more info before I move onto the next set of tests to find the actual problem.

But thanks for providing the info it will be helpfull I am sure.

[LeoVampire]

Well nothing is being sent to the dash to turn the light on so it must be a problem with the PCM.

Light bulb and the holder for it is fine. Good connection @ the back of the plug to the spot where the light resides but nothing going to the wire from the PCM.

So I put a call into my dealership and they are supose to call me back with what they intend to do about it seeing it never worked in the first place.

I will let you all know what they decied.

[Zack]

Have you had the shifter apart yet?

[LeoVampire]

Have you had the shifter apart yet?

Yep I had the entire system apart that has anything to do with the O/D light.

The over drive on / off works just fine there just has never been an operational light in the dash for it to confirm it that's all.

But now that I know there is supose to be one working it is bugging the hell out of me.

[FordNut]

Well nothing is being sent to the dash to turn the light on so it must be a problem with the PCM.

Light bulb and the holder for it is fine. Good connection @ the back of the plug to the spot where the light resides but nothing going to the wire from the PCM.

So I put a call into my dealership and they are supose to call me back with what they intend to do about it seeing it never worked in the first place.

I will let you all know what they decied.

So what was the result of the test? Did the light come on when you grounded the wire?



Troubleshooting:
1. Find the pin from the PCM that turns it on. Ground the wire/pin and see if the light comes on. It won't hurt the PCM to ground the pin, just make sure it's the right one. You can ground it with a jumper wire (test lead with alligator clips on both ends) and a sewing needle or straight pin to poke through the wire insulation. I'll see if I can find the PCM pinout.

[omarauder]

This is an interesting thread....the following circuits might be worth checking out:

- The PCM connector diagram shows "Pin 29 - PCM to Overdrive Cancel Switch", (cct 224 / TN/WH wire).
- Also, it sounds like a Hi (+12v) or Lo (GND) input (not sure which) comes from the the switch into Pin 29 and the PCM takes over from there by controlling the clutch solenoid thru Pin 54 ("Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid") (cct126 VT/YE).

If your solenoid turns on&off with the switch, then unfortunately the problem might be inside the PCM (probably the transistor the turns on the indicator lamp - bad solder joint?).

[LeoVampire]

So what was the result of the test? Did the light come on when you grounded the wire?

Yes I was able tomake the O/D light come on in the dash by bypassing the PCM so unfortunatly it does need to be replaced.

First I called Allen my salesman I always use but he sugested I come down there when I get a chance and talk to the owner personaly he felt I had a better chance that way so when I get some fuel in the Marauder I plan to take a trip to the dealership and go from there.

[LeoVampire]

My dealership convinced Ford to handle it as warenty work seeing the O/D light has never worked since day 1 of picking her up.

Next week she goes to the dealership to have a new one installed and programed free of charge and they are giving me another car to use for free.

Now that is what I call service and standing behind your cars and customers. :beer: