Need Advise Custom Wheels Don't Fit

[JET]

I got a set of Marauder rims widened from the people Lidio uses. Same exact specs. I had them shipped in my trunk when my car was being returned from the Trilogy install. I took them to my local tire dealer & had the 305 Nittos put on.

While they were being put on the car we noticed that they were pushed up against the rear shock. They weren't just rubbing they were mashed up against them. I measured the rims to see if they made them to wide but they were exactly right. I went to Pep boys & got a 5/16" spacer. Hooray they fit. I was relieved and excited to get the car to the track but alas another problem pops up. Not enough thread in the screw. With the spacer there is only around 3 to 4 turns. The tech felt I would really be risking it beating on the car with little thread. I called "the dealer" from our site for advice. He told me that there is nothing available from ford but a speed shop would have a 3" screw. So I call a friend of mine who owns a speed shop & he has a 3" screw but as he's reading the print off the package he sees it says do not use with spacer. He is going to research this for me over night and hopefully will have something for me tomorrow. He also mention what I think is called a Gaskil bolt and he mentioned a spacer that comes with screws.

Questions:
1) Why would the same wheel & tire setup fit on other cars & not mine?
2) Any suggestions of what I should do?

What I know
1) Widened wheel is correct size 9.5"
2) The tires are the same ones as on Jerry's car. 305x45x18 Drag Radials
3) My car was built in June of 2002
4) They fit the same on both sides
5) Yes we took the car off the lift with wheels on and they still rubbed without the spacers.

I have to race this car this week with this tire & wheel setup. The season is over on Sunday & I'm desperate to see what this baby has. Please help me.

P.S. This is not Lidio's fault and I have been in contact with him since this problem arose searching for a solution.


:confused: :mad2: :confused: :mad2: :confused: :mad2: :confused:

[jgc61sr2002]

JET - Make sure at least one thread is completly through the lug nuts. It would be dangerous to drive with anything less. More is better.

[Warpath]

If the wheels were widened exactly how Lidio's were, then it looks like you have bad luck with tolerancing. Every vehicle is different because of tolerance stack ups. I believe that the clearance Lidio stated was too close. You need a lot more room. I think your only option if you want to use the wheels is to use the spacer with longer studs. I think the studs are pretty common (if they are the same as Mustang studs). You do so at your own risk however.

[JET]

Originally posted by Warpath
bad luck with tolerancing. Every vehicle is different because of tolerance stack ups. I believe that the clearance Lidio stated was too close.

What does this mean?

[LincMercLover]

I know the Lincoln Mark 8's had this problem between runs. I think the problem was in the front though with the control arms, if I remember right... Every car does have it's differences, and in the case of the Mark 8, a popular rim size people wanted would not fit on some cars, and on others it would. The simple fix, grind a lil off the arm. However, this in the rear end we're talking here and there's nothing to grind... The shock wouldn't happen to be bent would it? Did you play with the rear ride height any? These are about the only things I can think of right now that could affect it...

[bigslim]

Sorry to hear that your wheels don't fit. Have you contaced Lidio? See what he has to say. I know the Trilogy 1 car rides on them. The Trilogy 2 car had them plus the widen front wheels on it in Vegas. I hope you get it straighten out.

[JET]

Originally posted by LincMercLover
The shock wouldn't happen to be bent would it?

NO

Did you play with the rear ride height any? These are about the only things I can think of right now that could affect it...?

NO


Thanks for your insite, Rick, & please give Sammy a kiss from me.

Just talked to friend of mine who said that some of the older mustangs had some problems like this. He said they had to move the shock in but from what I remember it doesn't seem like is any room to move the shock.
He also said spacer are a bad idea when drag racing.

I'm sure you can all understand how bummed out I am. I know this will be great even with stock tires but come on this monster needs the big rubber to get your monies worth out of it.

It's like running a Kentuky Derdy Horse with flip flopd insead of horse shoes.

Please help, calling all wrench heads.

:help: :help: :mad2: :help: :help: :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry:

[RCSignals]

The same widened wheels and tires fit the Trilogy car without spacers?

Is your axle assembly a different width from flange to flange?

[JET]

Originally posted by RCSignals
The same widened wheels and tires fit the Trilogy car without spacers?

Is your axle assembly a different width from flange to flange?

I have no idea. I coundn't figure this out myself but I wll crtainly bring that question up to the shop on Tuuesday.



Thanks How about you lasso up your old man & that Kenny-Brown and will have an fashioned shoot @ Cecil County Strip

:alone: :confused: :alone:
:alone: :alone:
:alone: :alone:

[darebren]

is it a 300a vs. 300b thing? shocks on the outside versus inside?

[MMM2003]

Originally posted by darebren
is it a 300a vs. 300b thing? shocks on the outside versus inside?

Not shocks, but threaded mounting stems.

He is bringing up a good point. I just learned something in this regards from the DTD snow tire set.

I have a 300A and had to buy new threaded thru lug nuts, because my OEM lug nuts bottomed out and wouldn't clamp the 16" steel wheel.

We just had a post from Duhtroll, which stated that he was able to use the OEM lug nuts with no problem and he has a 300B.

Could FMC have changed the length of the mounting studs?
I just measured mine and they are 1.5" long.

Do we have to add this to the list of decontented items??

[TheDealer]

I just looked at a std Gr. Marquis and a Marauder. I looked at the cars and checked part numbers in the catolog. The rear housing is the same on both cars. The shock mounting location are the same. There is no difference between a 300a and b in this respect. The Marauder has a std. Gr Marquis rear with the addition of a sway bar, air bags and heavy duty shocks. The shocks are the same physical size and shape. They mount the same way. Something has to be wrong with the back spacing of your wheels if others have fit and yours dont. The only other thing I can see, is if you cut the lower mounting sleeve of the shock and moved it inboard it would move the shock about 1/2" at the bottom mounting. This would only give you about 1/4 to 3/8" at the top. This would make the shock straighter and don't know how that would change geometry and handling and ride hieght.

[Racerx88]

If you have access to another MM, you might try seeing if they'll fit on THAT car. At least then you'd know for sure if it was a problem with the wheels or with the car itself.

[TheDealer]

Bring them up to my Dealership, and we can try them on as many cars as you like. RAY

[Dr Caleb]

Originally posted by Warpath
Every vehicle is different because of tolerance stack ups.


Originally posted by JET
What does this mean?

When things are engineered, there is always error between the design and the actual fabrication. There is always a 'tolerance' level for this error.

For example, when the rear axels are made to fit into the axel housing, the spec may call for 36", with a tolerance of +/- 5%. This means the axle could be 36 1/16" to 35 15/16". The error is also taken into account when designing the rear end housing, so it can accommodate an axel from 35 3/4" to 36 1/4".

These errors are cumulative, so if the tolerance on the rear end is +/- 1%, and the axel tolerance is +/- 5% and the studs have +/- 1%, the the total possible error is +/- 7%.

What may have happened is your car got all the "-" ends of this error factor, so your axel ends up being 5/16 shorter than Lidos, who may be on the "+" side of this error factor by a couple sixteenths.

These errors usually cancel each other out, but are normal in the process between designing something and actually building it. That's why hammers and erasers never go out of style. :)

Clear as mud?

[TheDealer]

I don't believe that the torerance would be more than a couple thousands of an inch.

Are you sure of the measurements of the wheels. Are they supposed to be 9.5" overall or bead to bead??? The correct measurement of a wheel is bead to bead. If someone gave you an overall measurement your wheels would be 1/2" too wide. RAY

[Dr Caleb]

Originally posted by TheDealer
I don't believe that the torerance would be more than a couple thousands of an inch.


I agree, but just as an example to illustrate the point. I know some tolerances can be in the thousandths +/- .01%, and I doubt much on the car is out as much as 1/16".

But 5/16 does seem like quite a bit...

[TheDealer]

I think the wheels are wider than the others that have had this done. Just my .02. RAY

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by darebren
is it a 300a vs. 300b thing? shocks on the outside versus inside?

no, shocks are on the outside for all 2003 and later

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by MMM2003
Not shocks, but threaded mounting stems.

He is bringing up a good point. I just learned something in this regards from the DTD snow tire set.

I have a 300A and had to buy new threaded thru lug nuts, because my OEM lug nuts bottomed out and wouldn't clamp the 16" steel wheel.

We just had a post from Duhtroll, which stated that he was able to use the OEM lug nuts with no problem and he has a 300B.

Could FMC have changed the length of the mounting studs?
I just measured mine and they are 1.5" long.

Do we have to add this to the list of decontented items??

I think it's more likely that you each have different wheels causing this.

I'd use standard wheel nuts with the steel wheels anyway, or the shoulder nuts for hub cap installation, not the chrome nuts for the aluminium wheels

[Warpath]

Originally posted by Dr Caleb
When things are engineered, there is always error between the design and the actual fabrication.

Being one of those automotive engineers, I believe its better to state it as:

When things are engineered, there is always a variance between the design and the actual fabrication.

If there is an error, you fix it or start over. You can very rarely get it exactly how it was designed.


Originally posted by TheDealer
I don't believe that the torerance would be more than a couple thousands of an inch.

Thats a little low. An individual piece of the frame or other component may have a tolerance of about 0.5 mm (~0.01") more or less. I work on framed vehicles and it is very difficult to get a consistant product when stamping and welding that many pieces together. For example, the width of a frame can vary part to part up to about 6 or 7 mm (~0.25") easy. Couple that with a shock, axle, wheel, and tire varying also (likely not as much) and you will get what JET is experiencing.

[JET]

Originally posted by TheDealer
Are you sure of the measurements of the wheels. Are they supposed to be 9.5" overall or bead to bead??? The correct measurement of a wheel is bead to bead. If someone gave you an overall measurement your wheels would be 1/2" too wide. RAY

Yes it measured 9.5" bead to bead



Thank all of you for your help.

[sailsmen]

Can you send the wheels back and have them widened only 1"?

Also is there a way to measure before for those of us thinking about the wider wheels.

I have no way of verifying this and the engineer who told me this is dead but he said that all the load is on the first 1.5 turns on a bolt.

He was a brillant engineer with many innovative designs to his credit.

[Warpath]

Originally posted by sailsmen
...I have no way of verifying this and the engineer who told me this is dead but he said that all the load is on the first 1.5 turns on a bolt...

No, not all, but close. The load is max at the start of the first thread of the nut and tapers off to the last thread of the nut (free end of the nut). The last thread still carries some load. You need enough threads to prevent the bolt or nut from stripping. The minimum amount of threads required depends on the application (applied loads, material types, thread pitch, etc.).

IMO, it would be safer to get longer studs if you must use a spacer. Reducing the number of engaged threads reduces the capacity of the joint. The addition of the spacer also reduces the capacity of the joint - simply put. Like I said, you do so at your own risk. However, you are not the first one to use spacers.

[bigslim]

JET' it is my understanding that your wheels do fit. Please let us know if this is true.

[CRUZTAKER]

Haven't heard from you in a week John....what's going on with this matter? Oh...Jessica and Gage say hi!

[JET]

Originally posted by bigslim
JET' it is my understanding that your wheels do fit. Please let us know if this is true.

Sorry for not updated this thread.

Yes the wheel & tire combo do fit however there was a seperate problem with the wheel. It is being addressed and hopefully they'll be on the car next week.

The good news is that the car is awesome & running great.

[bigslim]

Glad to hear everything is going to be fine.