Is there a specified interval for timing chain replacement?

[ReefBlueCoupe]

I haven't really heard too much about a manufacturer's specified interval for this, but with my 03 Marauder's engine approaching 160k, thoughts about deeper maintainence are entering my mind. I can find threads here regarding tensioners and r/r the chain for cam installs, but nothing really stating what the chain replacement interval is, if there even is one. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't simply because chains require a lot less maintainence than belts.

Thanks for any info.

[Zack]

They dont wear out or stretch if you have maintained your engine.

Cliff notes: Dont worry unless something breaks.

[DJCV]

What about the chain guides...??

[2vmodular]

the timing tensioner guides do indeed wear. some of the people over on www.crownvic.net (http://www.crownvic.net) have killed their engines when these went out. the most common failure mode seems to be that the chains wear through the guides putting lots of nylon & aluminum debris into the oiling system. less frequently, the engines "jump time" letting the pistons hit the valves.

but keep in mind that most of these cars are old police cruisers with huge amounts of idling time. picking up a used 100k mile police cruiser with 10k idle hours is not unheard of.


What about the chain guides...??

[wilsoj6]

My timing chain guides went bad on my 2004 MM. I bought the car used at 54,000 miles and at about 70,000 I started hearing a LOUD clanking noise at start up. I finally got my mechanic to pull the timing system apart and he pulled the guides. He compared them to the new guides and the plastic/ rubber was completely gone :eek:. The chain was rubbing against the metal guide every single time I started the engine. The chain actually filed the metal guide down to conform to it's shape. Thankfully I am really strict on oil changes and changed my oil enough for it not to get any metal in the engine (I hope). I don't know why or how the rubber was removed but I thought I would share my story. So the moral of this story is.....i got my timing chain guide fixed! Thanks for reading. Hope this helps.

[2vmodular]

make sure that you get all the nylon particles out of the oiling system. you will have engine failure shortly after if your pickup strainer in the oil pan gets plugged up. these particles can also wedge in other places like in the passages to the crankshaft bearings and camshafts too.

[2vmodular]

here's an oil flow diagram for the 4.6L sohc crownvic engine. i'm suspecting that the 4.6L dohc engines have the same setup.

http://www.p71interceptor.com/oilcooler/oilpassages.jpg

[2vmodular]

if the timing guide wear is extreme, you can also wear down into the pin that holds the tensioners to the engine block. this is really troublesome because the retainer pin is not removeable and your new timing chain guides won't install properly with a damaged block pin.

[4play]

is it hard to remove the covers? maybe I should have a look at mine, sometimes I get a little bit of a rattle at a cold start up. does the oil pan need to come off.

[2vmodular]

if you're getting a little noise on startup, you might try switching over to the ford motorcraft fl820s oil filter. the drainback valve in these often helps eliminate timing chain chatter on startup. here's an ssm about this topic:

"21049 1997-2010 MULTIPLE VEHICLE - 4.6L/5.4L - ENGINE TICKING AND/OR RATTLE NOISE
MULTIPLE VEHICLE LINES WITH 4.6L OR 5.4L ENGINE MAY EXPERIENCE AN ENGINE TICKING OR RATTLE NOISE THAT SOUNDS LIKE A STUCK TAPPET (HLA). THIS MAY BE DUE TO THE DETERIORATION OF AN AFTERMARKET OIL FILTER. VEHICLES WITH THIS CONDITION HAVE LOW OIL PRESSURE AT ONE CYLINDER HEAD ONLY, WHILE MAIN PRESSURES ARE NORMAL. DISLODGED MATERIAL FROM THE AFTERMARKET OIL FILTER BLOCKS THE CAM CAP OIL PASSAGE, EITHER AT CYLINDER #4 (RIGHT BANK REAR) OR CYLINDER #5 (LEFT BANK FRONT). FOR VCT EQUIPPED ENGINES, INSPECT THE VCT VALVE BODY AND THE OIL PASSAGES UNDER THE FIRST CAM CAP. DAMAGE TO ENGINES CAUSED BY AFTERMARKET OIL FILTERS ARE NOT COVERED UNDER WARRANTY.
EFFECTIVE DATE: 10/22/2009 "

and here's a link to a bulletin about the fl820s media length change:

http://www.p71interceptor.com/misc/fl820s

[4play]

That's all I ever use. I'm thinking 160'000 miles its probably time for chain guides.. I just hope I don't have to pull the oil pan.

[JimmyXR7]

That's all I ever use. I'm thinking 160'000 miles its probably time for chain guides.. I just hope I don't have to pull the oil pan.

It is normal to replace the timing chain assembly and the oil pump when the engine is rebuilt.

Marauders have the engine go out (lose compression) between 130,000 and 200,000 miles based on the rear end ratio, if the driver down-shifts alot, and has a lead foot. Of course if the Marauder was drag raced it is good for 1,000 trips down the quarter mile,(according to testing on one). Due to manufacturing variability, some parts go out early.

If the timing chain is not making noise, I recommend you replace it when you have other major engine work done.

Jim

[Midnight]

When my transmission shifts... Especially when accelerating on the highway, a big pinging noise succession happens... Any ideas? Loose chains?

[burt ragio]

At 197000 I am over due I know it needs to be done.
How long does it take to do the job & are there any special tools needed ?

[RF Overlord]

No "special" tools. I think you've got about everything needed. If you want to tackle it some weekend I'd be happy to assist.

[justbob]

As they may hold up quite well, I recently changed all my stuff with Ford Racings kit (WOW complete) and the difference in my old 92,000 mile tensioners and the new were HUGE. My guides were perfect and everything behind the cover was shiny as new still. Just preventative upkeep.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[Midnight]

As they may hold up quite well, I recently changed all my stuff with Ford Racings kit (WOW complete) and the difference in my old 92,000 mile tensioners and the new were HUGE. My guides were perfect and everything behind the cover was shiny as new still. Just preventative upkeep.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

BOB, do you have a link to that? I think my time has come..... I'm getting some clicking on startup now.

And if anyone has instructions, that would be GREATTTTT

[justbob]

BOB, do you have a link to that? I think my time has come..... I'm getting some clicking on startup now.

And if anyone has instructions, that would be GREATTTTT

A simple google will yield your answers young Jedi. :)

http://www.jegs.com/i/Ford-Racing/397/M-6004-A464/10002/-1

The force is strong with this and tells me the instructions are included as well.
Oh wait, that's actually personal experience..

http://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/300/397/397-M-6004-A464.pdf




Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[Marauderjack]

Someone said in another thread that the "dowels" wear to the point that they are not usable......looks like you can replace them....right??:confused:

Kinda worried (actually just wondering) what mine look like at 249K??:cool:

Mobil I from the very first oil change....every 5K since.....48 oil changes.....YIKES!!:eek:

[Midnight]

Someone said in another thread that the "dowels" wear to the point that they are not usable......looks like you can replace them....right??:confused:

Kinda worried (actually just wondering) what mine look like at 249K??:cool:

Mobil I from the very first oil change....every 5K since.....48 oil changes.....YIKES!!:eek:

249! Can't wait to take my baby passed 250!

[Marauderjack]

Me neither.......hope it don't go BOOM!!:eek:

[whitey]

I think these are hit or miss...a guy i met on the street about 2 years ago had to replace them very early on....his car only had 50xxx miles and he had them replaced at ~35k, richardp has a bit over 100k and his are making noise, i have 151k on mine and as far as i know, they've never been replaced. IMHO, if it aint broke, dont fix it, my preventative maintenance doesnt even think of it.

[lifespeed]

As they may hold up quite well, I recently changed all my stuff with Ford Racings kit (WOW complete) and the difference in my old 92,000 mile tensioners and the new were HUGE. My guides were perfect and everything behind the cover was shiny as new still. Just preventative upkeep.

Would you comment on the differences you noticed before/after the new chain setup? I am at 108K miles and get some rattling at startup, but quiets down after that. It does seem a bit noisy when I let it wind up over 5,000 RPM, though. I use synthetic 0W-20 oil, Motorcraft filter and change it about every 7,000 miles.

I am thinking it might make sense to replace the timing set if I want to run this engine for another 70K to 80K miles.

[VMARAUDER]

Posted this eariler...On my 2001 Town Car with about 215k on it I had the timing chains, guides and tensioners replace. The guides were down to metal and it's benn15k since
It had the start up and idle chatter and as the engine torqued up it quieted down some

[ctrlraven]

A few weeks ago my engine started to make a loud tick sound (sounded like a small exhaust leak) only after the car warmed up. After replacing some pulleys on Sunday, it starts to tick at 170-173 degrees and noise is coming from the front passenger head/timing cover area. Pretty sure my guides are worn down, I wonder how much it would cost to replace the guides and tensioners.

[VMARAUDER]

A few weeks ago my engine started to make a loud tick sound (sounded like a small exhaust leak) only after the car warmed up. After replacing some pulleys on Sunday, it starts to tick at 170-173 degrees and noise is coming from the front passenger head/timing cover area. Pretty sure my guides are worn down, I wonder how much it would cost to replace the guides and tensioners.
Got mine done for $750

[ctrlraven]

Got mine done for $750
Was that just for the guides and tensioners replaced?

[justbob]

Would you comment on the differences you noticed before/after the new chain setup? I am at 108K miles and get some rattling at startup, but quiets down after that. It does seem a bit noisy when I let it wind up over 5,000 RPM, though. I use synthetic 0W-20 oil, Motorcraft filter and change it about every 7,000 miles.

I am thinking it might make sense to replace the timing set if I want to run this engine for another 70K to 80K miles.

I really can't say as I replaced my entire drivetrain all at once. I never had any cold start rattling before or after.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[lifespeed]

. . . and the difference in my old 92,000 mile tensioners and the new were HUGE.

Just trying to figure out what this ^^ meant.

[justbob]

Just trying to figure out what this ^^ meant.

Tension difference between old and new.


Self proclaimed Builder Of Badassery.

Buy it, Break it, Build it BETTER.
"Since 2004"

[VMARAUDER]

Was that just for the guides and tensioners replaced?
Chains too and the oil filter adapter

[lifespeed]

Nothing like reviving an old thread. What I found is the factory plastic-bodied hydraulic tensioners with an O-ring to seal them to the engine block don't seal over time. They leak oil and pressure, fail to tension adequately and cause the timing chain to slap when the engine revs up. Of course this chain slap beats the guide and chain accelerating wear and is A Bad Thing. On my car the hydraulic lash adjusters on the driver's side (the one with the problem tensioner) had scoring on the bottom, so these were replaced too. The car had been run 10K to 15K miles with this problem.

This is different from the issue where the chain rattles at startup, which is due to oil draining out of the engine combined with the poor tensioner design which does not include a ratchet mechanism to prevent the tensioner/guide from retracting too far.

In both cases the fix is at least new ratcheting iron tensioners that don't use any seal between the block and tensioner. If you wait too long you'll need to replace the whole cam timing set because it thrashes those parts. This plastic tensioner is a really unfortunate design flaw, as it appears the cam timing set design could well last the life of the engine if the tensioners did not fail. But, given the nature of plastic, it would seem likely that many Marauders will suffer this failure.

[fastblackmerc]

Nothing like reviving an old thread. What I found is the factory plastic-bodied hydraulic tensioners with an O-ring to seal them to the engine block don't seal over time. They leak oil and pressure, fail to tension adequately and cause the timing chain to slap when the engine revs up. Of course this chain slap beats the guide and chain accelerating wear and is A Bad Thing. On my car the hydraulic lash adjusters on the driver's side (the one with the problem tensioner) had scoring on the bottom, so these were replaced too. The car had been run 10K to 15K miles with this problem.

This is different from the issue where the chain rattles at startup, which is due to oil draining out of the engine combined with the poor tensioner design which does not include a ratchet mechanism to prevent the tensioner/guide from retracting too far.

In both cases the fix is at least new ratcheting iron tensioners that don't use any seal between the block and tensioner. If you wait too long you'll need to replace the whole cam timing set because it thrashes those parts. This plastic tensioner is a really unfortunate design flaw, as it appears the cam timing set design could well last the life of the engine if the tensioners did not fail. But, given the nature of plastic, it would seem likely that many Marauders will suffer this failure.

Isn't there a "mechanic-in-a-can" fix for this???

[Turbov6Bryan]

Isn't there a "mechanic-in-a-can" fix for this???

What's with all the hatred towards me? If you have a problem with me feel free to dial my phone number

573-286-1699. Bryan

[Marauderjack]

My plastic set lasted 256K miles and had lots of life left but we put in new stuff during the engine rebuild!!:beer:

Mobil I and luck must have been on my side, huh??:D

[fastblackmerc]

What's with all the hatred towards me? If you have a problem with me feel free to dial my phone number

573-286-1699. Bryan

"Hatred" really????

Get a grip.

[lifespeed]

My plastic set lasted 256K miles and had lots of life left but we put in new stuff during the engine rebuild!!:beer:

Mobil I and luck must have been on my side, huh??:D

Luck, I use Mobile One also. This is not an uncommon problem. Hope you went with the upgraded iron tensioners.

[lifespeed]

My plastic set lasted 256K miles and had lots of life left but we put in new stuff during the engine rebuild!!

That does seem to indicate the cam timing set design could last the life of the engine were it not for the fatal plastic tensioner design flaw. Once again, Ford snatches defeat from the jaws of victory. :(