Weird shudder and/or vibration

[TooManyFords]

Weird vibration Dept.
I'm getting a weird shudder or vibration from a start when the wheel is turned either left or right. It is only during startup and stops when I'm going faster than 5 mph or so. Doesn't happen when the wheel is pointed straight ahead.

Anyone want to take bets that the dealership that installed my gears (and the wrench I had to train) forgot to put the friction modifier in the differential?

I'm debating wheter or not to even take it back in yet. I want to get one of those SVO covers for it and thought I might as well install this myself. When I do it, I can put the magic additive in myself and see if that is what caused it.

On the other hand, if he did in fact forget it, I'm guessing they should open it up and check to make sure nothing else is wrong in there....

Guess I answered my own question.

On the third hand... Has anyone had any problems with front wheel bearings? Do these symptoms sound like this is a possibility?

Happy Thanksgiving everyone. See you all in chat tonight.

John

[TAF]

It's lack of friction modifier...I had the same thing and had it added. What you are feeling is the clutch and posi working.

[TooManyFords]

Did it gradually come on till you finally noticed it a lot? For me, this is something that I remember as just slowly getting worse till I finally decided today it's not me, but the car...

Thanks!

John

[duhtroll]

John, would this be the same dealer that did mine?

The same dealer that has my car for a *second* day since they didn't do anything with it during its appointment yesterday?

(Seriously, they had it at 7AM yesterday to replace a seat track and cover, check the power steering leak, and remove insulation from the sub. I come back at 4:30 and they tell me it's not ready until today around 2PM? WTF? Then they don't offer me a car when I work 25 miles away. We had a little discussion about that.)

Please share all information about this dealer with me if you would. When I call LM I will include it.

I was happy with the gear install but everything since then has been "well, you didn't buy the car here, so you can go :censor: yourself."

I woulda bought the car there, but they wanted sticker and wouldn't budge. Duh.

Thanks,
-A

[TooManyFords]

Yes, that is where I got mine and had the gears done.

[ SIGH ]

Guess I could write a book about how mine was in there for 7 days just getting the gears installed... That was the only thing mine has been in for so I don't really have anything else to say, good or bad.

To be honest, I do not know what Mercury's policy is on loaner cars. We'd have to ask "TheDealer" and see what he says.

Where do you teach that is 25 miles away?

John

[Macon Marauder]

re: loaners

I've always been told it was up to the dealer. Unless you buy a Lincoln.

[Dr Caleb]

Originally posted by TooManyFords
Weird vibration Dept.

On the third hand... Has anyone had any problems with front wheel bearings? Do these symptoms sound like this is a possibility?

Happy Thanksgiving everyone. See you all in chat tonight.

John

I just did the front hubs on my CV after 240,000 km. They are not the normal bearings you are thinking of. They are a sealed unit of needle bearings.

Symptoms for bad front hubs are a speed related noise, like a low growl. The growl will go away for a short time when the wheel is turned left-right-left quickly. As the weight of the vehicle shifts, the noise stops while the weight is off it. That indicates which side is bad.

[sailsmen]

Ford Warranty will reimburse if the vehicle is in over nite up to $28? per day for a rental.

The dealer has to approve the rental, sometimes they will just let you bill to their account rather than waiting 90 days for Frod to reimburse.

[TooManyFords]

Ok, I just got back from my friendly Mercury dealership and talked to the service manager and the guy who put my gears in.

The wrench said he put synthetic fluid back in it and that this fluid has the friction modifier already in it. ?? This is news to me!

Is he telling the truth or just guessing??

I told him I've never heard of that before and that if in fact the syntehtic stuff was already prep'd for a posi then I need to make an appointment to fix whatever else was broken.

Comments anyone?

John

[TAF]

The friction modifier comes in a separate container. He's feeding you a line of :bs:.

[Dr Caleb]

Agreed.
:bs:

[carfixer]

If your wrench had actually read the service manual, he would have read "CAUTION: For Traction-Lok® axles, first fill the rear axle with 118 ml (4 oz) of additive friction modifier." in SECTION 205-02 of the 2003 Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis/Marauder Workshop Manual

[duhtroll]

They are DEFINITELY full of *****. I just got back from there too, and the part they were supposed to replace "came in wrong."

I am REALYL happy with them now. Last trip to them they did nothing - "forgot to order it" and now they have had it for 2 days and done nothing with it.

I don't trust anything they say anymore.

Oh well, nothing a good long highway trip in lots of traffic won't, uh, nevermind.

(This is where my wife gets to show how patient she can be.)

Have a great holiday everyone,
-A

[TAF]

TMF,

Take this into the wrench...here's what he forgot to add...the little blue bottle....OOOPPPS!!! What a "tailpipe"!!!
http://www.brothersperformance.com/shop/_images/m0263.jpg

EDIT: Oh...and here's a link to a supplier of it. CLICK HERE (http://www.brothersperformance.com/shop/mustang/fmm19546a.html)
He's lieing to you over an $8 bottle of fluid he forgot to add...read the description under the pic. "It MUST be added if changing fluid or gears..."

Who's your wrench??!! Marty's brother??!!

[Agent M79]

Uh... is this shudder you are talking about feel kinda like when you begin turning the wheel like you are driving over a washboard?

I was just getting ready to post this after I read new threads.

For me, from a stop where I have to turn left or right as I accelerate, I feel it like a minor shudder, as if I am driving over a washboard for just a second or two.

To me, it felt like it was coming from the front end, but I've only experienced this briefly about 3 or 4 times in the last 2 days.

Sound the same? Anything else to check?

[TooManyFords]

Agent... that is EXACTLY what I feel. And it only happens from a dead stop either forward or backward and only at low speed. I kinda figured this was it because I've had 9-inches with Detroit Lockers and while it is a bit different, they are very similar in feel.

I've got an appointment for 8am Monday to have them fix this.

I'll keep y'all posted!

John

[Agent M79]

If it takes me a few days (say, clear of the holiday) to get this looked at, am I going to have a serious problem on my hands?

My gears have been in for 700 miles.

[TooManyFords]

No, it's more of an annoyance in the short-term. Sounds like your wrench wasn't any better than mine.

It took mine about 600 miles before I noticed it and now 250 later I realized what it was. Because most driving is straight, it is not a constant wear on the friction packs.

Keep us all posted on what you find as well.

John

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by Agent M79
If it takes me a few days (say, clear of the holiday) to get this looked at, am I going to have a serious problem on my hands?

Agent: You won't have a problem unless you leave it that way for a long time...many months, or many thousand miles...a few days or even weeks won't matter...just don't forget it entirely, or eventually you won't have a limited slip differential anymore; you'll be just like an open diff...

[Agent M79]

If the modifiers weren't added and they should have been, it would have been a run-of-the-mill oversight rather than a lack of experience, I am sure.

Well, for my part, I should have done more thourough research. The DR Stage I thing was just a little uncharacteristically impulsive of me and I should have looked into it more.

Friction modifiers would have been something I would have asked an opinion on if I had taken more time to research my mods. Just asking may have been just the flag needed to put them in if they were necessary.

Maybe this is an opportunity to revisit the situation and do a little more research. Maybe find more gems like THIS (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=81970#post81970) from SergntMac. Something I would have found probably by looking here and asking a question or two.

[gonzo50]

Originally posted by TAF
It's lack of friction modifier...I had the same thing and had it added. What you are feeling is the clutch and posi working.
I'm concerned that a simple and required friction modifier is being left out of the equation. Hasn't all these gears been installed by a professional that should know better? :confused:

You shouldn't have to ask about something that is a requirement with a certain install. I hope all the other installs are not being short sighted by the same professional that did the gears. IMHO

[Bigdogjim]

Originally posted by TAF
Who's your wrench??!! Marty's brother??!! [/B]

If not then he must know my paint guy:lol: :):):)

[jparrie]

Originally posted by gonzo50
I'm concerned that a simple and required friction modifier is being left out of the equation. Hasn't all these gears been installed by a professional that should know better? :confused:

You shouldn't have to ask about something that is a requirement with a certain install. I hope all the other installs are not being short sighted by the same professional that did the gears. IMHO

You gotta wonder about the SET UP of the the gears by someone that can't get the bottle of juice in there. :confused: :confused:

[BillyGman]

Listen, first of all, I don'nt know why the mechanic put synthetic gear oil in the rear end unless you specified that you wanted that since the Manufacture calls for 80W90 which isn't synthetic. Secondly, Redline DOES make a type of gear oil that already DOES have the friction modifier included in it right out of the bottle. Some of their gear oils have it, and some do NOT. So it would depend on which synthetic oil he used. So I don't think that it would neccessarily be correct for you to conclude that you've been lied to. However, the mechanic might very well have made a mistake. Granted, a very careless mistake. If I were you, I'd change the gear oil myself, and it might very well solve your problem. BTW, I thought you were going to look at those old cats for me.

[CRUZTAKER]

I watched my wrench do my gears and he didn't add any little bottles of 'friction modifier' when he put the lube back in. I've got better than 8000 miles on these gears and haven't noticed anything unusual. I'll have to call him and ask what lube he used.

[01True BlueGT]

You really don't have the option. If your tag or axle cover states it uses synthetic, you must use synthetic. Most if not all dealers stock the motorcraft friction modifier. One of our wrenches has a 03 MM and is going to see DAVE in the next couple of weeks. He has 4.10's coming and I can guarantee he will add synthetic and friction modifier.
Yes, if you go to long without it, you clutch packs will stick together and become one solid POS... :flamer:

[BillyGman]

the axle tag on my car doesn't say anything about Synthetic. So why would any other Marauder be any Different? They ALL have an 8.8" Ford rear end.....

[CRUZTAKER]

^^^yeah...what he said^^^ :confused:

[01True BlueGT]

That I can"t tell ya. All I know, is the non-synthetic is 80w90 and the synthetic is 75w140. I have seen where the tag doesn't say, but the cover itself states use synthetic only. I have also seen a seperate tag that states use synthetic. Neither has a friction modifier in it, as far as I know. I think the motorcraft # for the modifier is XL-3, but not positive.

[BillyGman]

the part # for the Modifier is XL-3 but since there's only one Modifier that dealers carry, the part # isn't important. And yes, the motorcraft gear oils weather synthetic or not do NOT have the friction modifier included, however some of the Redline brand gear oils do have the modifier in them. But then again, I doubt that a dealer would've used Redline gear oil in TooManyFord's car. So I think that your point about none of the Motorcraft gear oils having the friction modifier already in them is a valid one.

[Agent M79]

I spoke with the mechanic that did my gears this morning.

I paraphrase:

A little chatter is not a bad thing, it tells you the clutch packs are working. There is no damage being done by the minor amount of chatter I am experiencing.

If the chatter is bothering me, I can add some friction modifier but the following fact may mitigate that:

The clutch packs are already saturated with friction modifier from the factory fill from the prior gears and adding more could over-saturate them causing a loss of posi-traction leaving me with one wheel doing the pushing.

[TooManyFords]

After the wrench rode with me yesterday morning, he too concluded it needed more friction modifier.

After putting that in, it is starting to quiet down. I didn't have a chance to put many miles on it, but after a 20+ it was better.

The kicker? They wanted to charge me for the modifier!! I said, H3LL NO. We actually argued about it for 10 minutes. They tried to blame it on my gear swap to which I pointed out that if they had read the ingredients to the gear lube they would have realized it needed it. I never did find out exactly which lube they put in there and I want to go back to find out now.

Anyway, the lesson here is that if you have someone putting your gears in for you, make SURE you specify the friction modifier.

What a hassle.

John

[TooManyFords]

I was not aware that the friction material in the limited slip discs could get saturated. Are they made of porous material?

Sorry, this one just kinda raised a flag... Need more info on this one.

John

[BillyGman]

Originally posted by TooManyFords
Anyway, the lesson here is that if you have someone putting your gears in for you, make SURE you specify the friction modifier.

What a hassle.

John

Or, just perform the gear change yourself like I did;)

[Agent M79]

I was told by the mechanic that the "clutch packs should already be saturated" with the friction modifier. I threw that out there to see if there was dissenting or supporting opinion to be had. I don't know.

If your chatter went away, then either it has addressed the chatter or you are now pushing with one wheel (according to the advice I was given). Again, I personally don't know.

[BillyGman]

Originally posted by Agent M79
If your chatter went away, then either it has addressed the chatter or you are now pushing with one wheel (according to the advice I was given). Again, I personally don't know.

well one sure way to find out is to do a burnout, and go back and see if there is one strip of rubber or two......

[TooManyFords]

Just what I need, another reason to go out and lay rubber! :)

hehehehe!!

John

[Meteorite]

I know this post is 3 years old, but I found it very helpful.

About 2 weeks ago, my Marauder started to develop identical symptoms as TooManyFords and Agent M79 described in this post. I added a bottle of the Motorcraft XL-3 Friction Modifier. Problem solved!

This site continues to be a great resource for anyone with a Marauder!