View Full Version : lower pulley loose again!
ImpalaSlayer
06-13-2010, 01:05 PM
this damn thing is getting on my nerves! im at an absolute loss as to why it keeps coming loose. ive tried loctite. lock washers, both, eeven made a big ass washer outa 1/4" steel that all 3 bolts go through to help spead out the load. i will say that the big washer thing held for about 500 miles but then the other day i started it up and , clack clak clak clak clak. this time i pulled the balancer and it looks normal, nothing obviously wrong with it. im going to see if i can get some place to verify that its actually balanced. i really dont know what the hell to do next. out of all the trilogys, cobras, and lightnings how can i be the only one with these issues? some weird harmonic in my engine?
ive called metco directly and they have never herd of suck a thing.
:help:
Blackened300a
06-13-2010, 01:09 PM
this damn thing is getting on my nerves! im at an absolute loss as to why it keeps coming loose. ive tried loctite. lock washers, both, eeven made a big ass washer outa 1/4" steel that all 3 bolts go through to help spead out the load. i will say that the big washer thing held for about 500 miles but then the other day i started it up and , clack clak clak clak clak. this time i pulled the balancer and it looks normal, nothing obviously wrong with it. im going to see if i can get some place to verify that its actually balanced. i really dont know what the hell to do next. out of all the trilogys, cobras, and lightnings how can i be the only one with these issues? some weird harmonic in my engine?
ive called metco directly and they have never herd of suck a thing.
:help:
Might wanna try using studs with locknuts.
-Matt-
06-13-2010, 01:10 PM
Time to go to a vortech....
bob6364
06-13-2010, 01:10 PM
I don't get that either...I know we we took the lfp lower of a friends cobra it had been drilled and thru bolted but that was the ring bolts not the hub bolts.
Dennis Reinhart
06-13-2010, 01:26 PM
Might wanna try using studs with locknuts.
I never had that issue with a Vortech.
musclemerc
06-13-2010, 01:32 PM
Good goodness Dave, I thought the washer would have fixed it. I like the stud idea, get a set of ARP's with the right thread pattern and if it happens again then tack weld the nut to the stud.
Mike M
06-13-2010, 01:36 PM
A couple of welds should do it.
sailsmen
06-13-2010, 01:39 PM
Could it be the TTY bolt on the crank dampner pulley is stretched from reuse allowing a wobble working the pulley loose?
Mike M
06-13-2010, 01:52 PM
Didn't know it was torque to yield.
Isn't there some kind of locking bolts out there you could use? I've seen them where there split and you run a secondary bolt down the thru the middle to lock them.
Mike M
06-13-2010, 03:40 PM
Safety wire? You have to have safety wire bolts available.
-Matt-
06-13-2010, 03:48 PM
Safety wire? You have to have safety wire bolts available.
He should have plenty of them, he works on planes for a living
Blackened300a
06-13-2010, 03:50 PM
I never had that issue with a Vortech.
Yeah and?.....:confused:
FordNut
06-13-2010, 04:29 PM
Try one of these solutions:
1. New damper. Maybe the threads are worn out.
2. Innovators West damper/pulley and Metco sc pulley ring adapter.
ImpalaSlayer
06-13-2010, 05:14 PM
Time to go to a vortech....
no thanks
I never had that issue with a Vortech.
ummm what? no **** you havent it dosent use a lower pulley.
A couple of welds should do it.
Could it be the TTY bolt on the crank dampner pulley is stretched from reuse allowing a wobble working the pulley loose?
i never re used the crank bolt, i got a new one. its not the balncer that comes loose its the hub that bolts to it to drive the blower
Isn't there some kind of locking bolts out there you could use? I've seen them where there split and you run a secondary bolt down the thru the middle to lock them.
might be a viable solution
Safety wire? You have to have safety wire bolts available.
i was thinking about trying this.
Try one of these solutions:
1. New damper. Maybe the threads are worn out.
2. Innovators West damper/pulley and Metco sc pulley ring adapter.
i was going to try the first one.
i understand the first part of the second option but no the second. what is a pulley ring adapter
sailsmen
06-13-2010, 05:17 PM
I suggest you find out the cause. If the damper is loose or has a wobble the vibration can cause the lower pulley adapter to come loose.
Something is causing it or else other would be reporting this problem.
Did you check the pulley for runout or wobble? These bolts coming loose over and over again doesn't make any sense.
justbob
06-13-2010, 05:49 PM
Bawazirs has allways had a very slight wobble, never seemed to be an issue though.
Sounds like he needs to pull everything off and really take a long hard looky. Maybe someone can chime in as to what exactly makes bolts come loose besides the obvious.
ImpalaSlayer
06-13-2010, 07:33 PM
Did you check the pulley for runout or wobble? These bolts coming loose over and over again doesn't make any sense.
the hub and pulley do indeed have a bit of wobble to them but it is in plane with the belt, almost like it isnt centered on the balancer
I'm thinking bad runout is worse than wobble. Are your 3 bolt holes wollerd out? If I remember right when I put my pulley on the clearences between the holes and bolts were very close.
jakesteel1
06-13-2010, 07:50 PM
I'm envious that youre able to do as much as you did on your own. I would have had to pay someone else.
FordNut
06-13-2010, 08:21 PM
i understand the first part of the second option but no the second. what is a pulley ring adapter
There is an adapter that goes between the sc pulley and the OEM damper. The one for the IW damper is different, and you may have to get it from IW instead of Metco or LFP. I believe mine came from IW, can't remember for sure. I've never had a problem with mine though.
Time to go to a vortech....
Must be a eaton swap thing.
Kennyrauder
06-13-2010, 10:12 PM
Don't try to tack them . The balance issue will kill you. Trust me no two tacks are the same. I was a welder for 32 years I know what I'm talking about.
tbone
06-13-2010, 10:45 PM
On my 69 VW Bus, I kept replacing the splined rear brake housing hub to fix my driveline from disintigrating. In reality it was the splined drive axle that was the issue. Wierd setup, I know. My point is, look beyond the bolts, lock washers and lock tite to find the source of your problem........excessive clearances between mating surfaces is the root of the problem, IMHO.
tbone
06-13-2010, 11:02 PM
I finally did all the work myself, after trusting it to local supposed "mechanics", so I know what I'm talking about. I went to the junkyard in Illinois 3 times to buy brake housing hubs, pull your own parts, that all went bad, before I finally figured it out myself in 1979. I went back a fourth time for the splined drive axle. The excessive clearance between my brake hubs and my drive axles was causing the parts to wear excessively. I can still see the worn drive axle splines and whittled out brake hubs clearly in my mind's eye, 30 years later....
ctrlraven
06-14-2010, 05:58 AM
Dave it's time to go back to being NA and lemme borrow that Eaton kit real quick. lol
Hope you figure it out and don't get too stressed about it.
FordNut
06-14-2010, 06:04 AM
Don't try to tack them . The balance issue will kill you. Trust me no two tacks are the same. I was a welder for 32 years I know what I'm talking about.
Not to mention the problems with sticking steel and aluminum parts together.
prchrman
06-14-2010, 08:59 AM
vibration///////
ImpalaSlayer
06-14-2010, 12:33 PM
just ordered a new cobra balancer, we will see what that does
FordNut
06-14-2010, 01:00 PM
just ordered a new cobra balancer, we will see what that does
Does it use the same adapter flange?
ImpalaSlayer
06-14-2010, 01:02 PM
Does it use the same adapter flange?
im still not following this adapter flange. i actually didnt order it, my tuner has a brand new one off a aluminator engine. for 100 bucks i couldnt turn him down
im still not following this adapter flange. i actually didnt order it, my tuner has a brand new one off a aluminator engine. for 100 bucks i couldnt turn him down
Are you using the Metco hub because mine didn't come with any flange and the only thing that centerd it was the 3 bolts which I thought was kinda odd.
FordNut
06-14-2010, 01:11 PM
im still not following this adapter flange. i actually didnt order it, my tuner has a brand new one off a aluminator engine. for 100 bucks i couldnt turn him down
OK, the Metco SC pulley ring is just a pulley with 6-8 bolt holes in it and it doesn't line up with any mounting holes on the damper.
The OEM damper has 3 mounting holes in it.
The adapter flange goes between the two.
I don't know if the Cobra damper has the same number of holes or if they're in the same location as the 3 holes in the OEM damper.
I do know the Innovators West damper has a different number of holes in a different size, different bolt circle and different distance from the front of the engine, hence it uses a different adapter from the "standard" Metco adapter.
FordNut
06-14-2010, 01:12 PM
Are you using the Metco hub because mine didn't come with any flange and the only thing that centerd it was the 3 bolts which I thought was kinda odd.
Maybe I'm calling it a flange when it's really referred to as a hub?
ImpalaSlayer
06-14-2010, 01:18 PM
Maybe I'm calling it a flange when it's really referred to as a hub?
i gotcha, yes im using the metco hub which is made for a cobra (they dont make a mm one)
Georges93LX
06-15-2010, 10:58 PM
Dave: I have a hub with a 4lb ring if you want to try a different one.
gortch
06-16-2010, 06:39 AM
I posted this to your other thread. Doing something like this will keep the hub centered.
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61878&page=2
ImpalaSlayer
06-16-2010, 08:13 AM
i duno how i missed that Terry. did you make that? wana make another?
Vortech347
06-16-2010, 11:26 AM
Do a new dampner.
gortch
06-18-2010, 01:11 PM
The hub I used was a LFP to fit a Lightning. The hub to fit a Cobra may be different. Are you using a MM balancer or are you going with a Cobra? I think they list a different hub for a Cobra balancer than for a Lightning so the hub hole may be different and the boss on the balancer may be different.
If you get a new balancer your best bet would be to take it and your hub to a machine shop and have them make you one.
We put my balancer on a mill and machined the mounting surface to be true. Made the ring and it all lined up perfect and snug.
I can make the ring if it is a MM balancer and a LFP hub that fits a Lightning. and I would think the Metco hub would be the same if it is for a lightning.
Terry
burt ragio
06-18-2010, 05:41 PM
Interesting all these combinations being used cobra & MM balancers. Hubs by LF & metco. They all seem to use or need center rings for proper alignment. Has anyone else had any of these problems ? I will be useing a 2lb one piece hub ring . Not sure what it came off of. Should I have a machinist make a center ring for my hub/ balancer ?
Georges93LX
06-18-2010, 06:10 PM
I'm using a Metco hub and 6lb. ring on my Lightning motor and it came from a Cobra. I haven't had any issues yet.
Interesting all these combinations being used cobra & MM balancers. Hubs by LF & metco. They all seem to use or need center rings for proper alignment. Has anyone else had any of these problems ? I will be useing a 2lb one piece hub ring . Not sure what it came off of. Should I have a machinist make a center ring for my hub/ balancer ?
I have a hub adaptor that was custom made by O's fan rich.
Only 2 were made.
I'm running a 4# cobra crank pulley.
That's where my 502RWTQ comes from! :D
Cant thank rich enough for the hook up!
NATEHAWK has the other one. :burnout:
jdenning002
06-20-2010, 01:20 PM
I am using the LFP setup that is made for a lightning and I have no problems so far.
The car is my daily driver and I have put about 4k miles on it in the last 2 months.
The part number for the Cobra on the LFP website is exactly the same....
The lightning one was much cheaper for the same part though...
ImpalaSlayer
06-20-2010, 04:57 PM
I am using the LFP setup that is made for a lightning and I have no problems so far.
The car is my daily driver and I have put about 4k miles on it in the last 2 months.
The part number for the Cobra on the LFP website is exactly the same....
The lightning one was much cheaper for the same part though...
the cobra unit has a bunch of other crap that comes with it, not sure bout the L
either way it has nothing to do with the hub at this point. my new balancer is in at my tuners shop so i will pick it up tomorrow and see what happens.
bob6364
06-20-2010, 05:33 PM
Dave ...The Fam is heading down to Va for the 4th do you live along 13? thats the route we usually take...thought maybe we could fire some bottle rockets at your house as we drive by :P
ImpalaSlayer
06-20-2010, 05:36 PM
Dave ...The Fam is heading down to Va for the 4th do you live along 13? thats the route we usually take...thought maybe we could fire some bottle rockets at your house as we drive by :P
hahahaha you better have some scuds if you wana hit my house from 13. we are about 6 miles west of 13 just south of middletown.
65DOHCStang
06-22-2010, 06:10 AM
It looks like the Metco and LPF pulleys don't need a center ring for alignment, just an alignment tool to center it when you install it. It should stay centered once the bolts were tightened down. I'm going to pull mine off and measure it, since I'm changing the outer ring anyway.
burt ragio
06-25-2010, 05:12 AM
What is this alignment tool that none of use have ever heard Do you have a picture or p/n ?
What is this alignment tool that none of use have ever heard Do you have a picture or p/n ?
There is no alignment tool :rolleyes:
ImpalaSlayer
06-25-2010, 08:36 AM
bolted up a new cobra balancer with lock washers, locktite, and safety wire. it tracks nice and true like it should. if it comes loose again, im selling the car
burt ragio
06-25-2010, 09:44 AM
Dave did you have to drill the bolt heads before adding the safty wire ?
65DOHCStang
06-25-2010, 11:40 AM
There is no alignment tool :rolleyes:
Yes. That's the problem. I measured the parts. The center hole in the Metco hub is 2.68" and the center ring on the balancer is 2.25". If we had a tool machined to these dimensions, we could slip it on, tighten the hub and be done. As it is, I used feeler gauges and got it within about .050" runout. It is hard to do on the car.
ImpalaSlayer
06-25-2010, 12:24 PM
Dave did you have to drill the bolt heads before adding the safty wire ?
yup sure did
Yes. That's the problem. I measured the parts. The center hole in the Metco hub is 2.68" and the center ring on the balancer is 2.25". If we had a tool machined to these dimensions, we could slip it on, tighten the hub and be done. As it is, I used feeler gauges and got it within about .050" runout. It is hard to do on the car.
The hubs have to be larger ID to account for rust/dents on the hub.
The large ID of the hub is remedied by the bolt holes which are barely large enough for the bolts to pass through...thus making it near perfect when you install it.
ImpalaSlayer
06-25-2010, 12:35 PM
something had to be wrong with my factory balancer as it runs much smoother with the new cobra unit
65DOHCStang
06-25-2010, 12:41 PM
The hubs have to be larger ID to account for rust/dents on the hub.
The large ID of the hub is remedied by the bolt holes which are barely large enough for the bolts to pass through...thus making it near perfect when you install it.
I can move the Metco hub around on the bolts and get about .150" runout. That might not sound like much, but with the blower pulling 50+ HP from the crank at 6500 RPM that could probably put enough harmonics on the crank to trash an oil pump. Given that these oil pumps are supposed to be so sensitive to harmonics, I'd prefer the pulley run perfectly true, but I realize there is a little runout in the factory balancer pulley.
ImpalaSlayer
06-25-2010, 12:45 PM
I can move the Metco hub around on the bolts and get about .150" runout. That might not sound like much, but with the blower pulling 50+ HP from the crank at 6500 RPM that could probably put enough harmonics on the crank to trash an oil pump.
thats prolly about how much i had but the hub couldnt move. my oil pump survived thankfully
Spectragod
06-25-2010, 01:35 PM
if it comes loose again, im selling the car
How much ? :confused: :D
ImpalaSlayer
06-25-2010, 02:11 PM
How much ? :confused: :D
you wana buy it? everything has a price!
you wana buy it? everything has a price!
THATS WHAT SHE SAID!!!
:banana2: :banana2:
Blackened300a
06-26-2010, 03:41 AM
THATS WHAT SHE SAID!!!
:banana2: :banana2:
:shake: Is there really any mileage left in this?
:shake: Is there really any mileage left in this?
She said that too. :depress: :alone:
jflave
06-26-2010, 06:01 AM
:shake: Is there really any mileage left in this?
Last night i was asked that question :)
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