anyone using the "police package with high output" alternator from autozone?

[bawazir]

anyone using the "Marauder police package with high output" alternator from autozone? would it still work or fit?
175 amps.


Thanks

[musclemerc]

Just an assumption but it won't have the clutched pully specific to the MM

[djv5150]

The voltage regulator on the Marauder Alt is specific to the Marauder due to the different dash cluster the PI Alt will work but the dash battery warning light will not go out.

[bawazir]

The voltage regulator on the Marauder Alt is specific to the Marauder due to the different dash cluster the PI Alt will work but the dash battery warning light will not go out.

autozone told me that is a marauder police hight out put, would it still work>? would the light still be on ?

thanks

[djv5150]

autozone told me that is a marauder police hight out put, would it still work>? would the light still be on ?

thanks

I had the issue with another national parts store, went in wanted to get the PI HO they looked up and said ya it will work got installed light on dash came on, went back they gave me one for a Grand Marquis, got home same light issue.
went back to parts store gave them a piece of my mind went to the dealer installed stock worked fine.

[bawazir]

Thanks for the input,

[FordNut]

If you want a higher output get one from DB Electrical.

[2vmodular]

in the 2003-2004 marauders, the alternator does not connect directly to the instrument cluster like you'll find in older ford cars. instead, the alternator regulator connects directly to the powertrain control module (pcm). the pcm then signals the instrument cluster when to turn on/off the charging system error light.

marauder owners should be able to install a 2003+ crownvic alternator if you can physically get it to fit. the electrical signals that control the alternator are the same.

one alternator model of particular intrest is the 2004+ police interceptor one. this is a massive alternator that has a one-way clutch and can put out close to 250amps under ideal conditions. here's a link to some info on it:

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/mitsubishi/upgrade/


The voltage regulator on the Marauder Alt is specific to the Marauder due to the different dash cluster the PI Alt will work but the dash battery warning light will not go out.

[2vmodular]

maybe you got an alternator intended for a 1999-2002 grand marquis. these still had i-line controlled voltage regulators with a fixed voltage setpoint and no genmon data output.

the 2003-2004 grand marquis alternator should be a plug & play install in a marauder. however, you'd have a regular solid steel pulley rather than one with a one-way clutch in it.


I had the issue with another national parts store, went in wanted to get the PI HO they looked up and said ya it will work got installed light on dash came on, went back they gave me one for a Grand Marquis, got home same light issue.
went back to parts store gave them a piece of my mind went to the dealer installed stock worked fine.

[2vmodular]

here's a picture of the 2003 police interceptor alternator. this is a 6G alternator rather than a 4G alternator like marauders originally came with.

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/modelnumbers/8315/8315-2.jpg

here's a picture of a 2003-2004 marauder alternator. this is a 4G alternator.

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/modelnumbers/8314/8314-6.jpg

here's a picture of a 2003-2004 grand marquis alternator. this is a 4G alternator like the 2003-2004 marauder unit, but it doesn't have the overrunning clutched pulley.

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/modelnumbers/8313/8313-6.jpg

here's the 2004-2011 police interceptor alternator. this unit is clutched, and outputs close to 250amps under ideal conditions. however, it's unknown if the dohc marauders have the physical space required to install an alternator this deep.

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/modelnumbers/11026/11026-4.jpg

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/modelnumbers/11026/11026-9.jpg

here's a link to more alternator pictures:

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/modelnumbers/

[bawazir]

I would love to install high 250, but Dave tired all that and battery warning light come on,,

[2vmodular]

i'm wondering if dave got an alternator intended for a 1999-2002 grand marquis. on the outside, the i-line & pcm controlled alternators look nearly identical. and the 99-02 grand marquis alternator physically bolts up to the 03-04 marauder engine, and the regulator connector will plug in as well.

but the pre-2003 alternators have the wrong voltage regulator in them for the 2003+ cars. so your charge light will be on complaining about lack of field response data.


I would love to install high 250, but Dave tired all that and battery warning light come on,,

[bawazir]

Auto zone should get my police pckg marauder alternator today,
I will post some pics, it might little bigger than the stock ones,

[FordNut]

You guys keep trying to re-invent the wheel. The alternator experiments have been done, here is the most reliable and economical solution:

If you want a higher output get one from DB Electrical.
CV and GM alternators won't fit. '96-'01 Cobra alternators physically fit but electrically won't work.

[justbob]

I was with him Brian when he picked up the one he has now. They offered the higher watt version along with the lower watt, both listed under MM. I figured the lower one would be just fine and saw no need for the higher one. I think his issue is with his cheapo replacement. They did not stock the higher watt one for a hands on visual anyways.

To run a higher watt alt., shouldn't the cables and battery also be upgraded? His hood allready doesn't shut properly from the battery he allready has..

Seems like a no brainer with these. Either have yours rebuilt by a shop or buy a Ford one. Too many reported issues, and now he has to pay me again because of a POS product.

[djv5150]

If you want a higher output get one from DB Electrical.

This is the solution I would take, Please post when you replace the Alt and if you get the battery light.

[Phrog_gunner]

What is the purpose of the clutch anyway?

[musclemerc]

One use is alread listed in this thread the other is at WOT a tuner can command it off and get another 4-5HP from the loss of drag on the belt. Here's what Lidio has to say about the clutched altenator:


From Lidio Himself about Tuning Marauders:
Alternative Auto has designed a new tune for Marauders with the stock 3.55 or 4.10's (we highly recommend 4.10 gears for the Marauder). The 4.10 gear program will handle all the necessary recalibrations for the 4.10's, like shift points and correct speedo reading.
Our calibration on the Xcalibrator flasher makes a significant difference in both horsepower and torque in the most usable area of the Marauders everyday driving power-band - low end & mid range.
One very cool feature we've unlocked on our Marauder tune is the ability to shut off the alternator at “Wide-Open-Throttle”. The Marauder is one of the few Ford vehicles that came from the factory with the ability to shut off the Alternator at WOT, but Ford choose not to take advantage of. By shutting off the alternator at WOT we found this alone to be worth 4-5 RWHP with no adverse affects on the vehicle.
At this time we are not recommending colder plugs nor cooler thermostats as we've found the detonation threshold to be the same between 185 - 210 degree F engine temps.
One of the most significant changes made with our tune and the Xcalibrator flasher are several enhancements to transmission operations. We have made a noticeable improvement in how the Marauder's transmission feels when shifting at light load and part throttle loads, plus substantially firmer shifts at wide open throttle. A key calibration area we've focused on is torque converter lock-up. We've basically made converter lock-up inactive until speeds above 63 mph have been reached in 4th gear. This makes a Marauder feel much peppier at intermediate speeds in city driving. This change also eliminates the unnecessary, frequent “up-and-down-hunting” shift at intermediate speeds. To sum it up, these transmission changes make the car respond much more quickly and feel like it's in the correct gear at all times during city driving speeds.
Full throttle shift points are raised slightly and made more consistent at 6100 rpm - which from our testing appears to be optimal for the Marauder engine. The vehicle top-speed limiter is also removed.
Finding the extra power and torque is one thing, but we are especially proud of how this flash-tune improves the driving experience through our transmission refinements. The driveability improvements we've made can't be shown through a dyno graph, they have to be experienced to be appreciated and understood.

[Krytin]

One use is alread listed in this thread the other is at WOT a tuner can command it off and get another 4-5HP from the loss of drag on the belt. Here's what Lidio has to say about the clutched altenator:


From Lidio Himself about Tuning Marauders:
Alternative Auto has designed a new tune for Marauders with the stock 3.55 or 4.10's (we highly recommend 4.10 gears for the Marauder). The 4.10 gear program will handle all the necessary recalibrations for the 4.10's, like shift points and correct speedo reading.
Our calibration on the Xcalibrator flasher makes a significant difference in both horsepower and torque in the most usable area of the Marauders everyday driving power-band - low end & mid range.
One very cool feature we've unlocked on our Marauder tune is the ability to shut off the alternator at “Wide-Open-Throttle”. The Marauder is one of the few Ford vehicles that came from the factory with the ability to shut off the Alternator at WOT, but Ford choose not to take advantage of. By shutting off the alternator at WOT we found this alone to be worth 4-5 RWHP with no adverse affects on the vehicle.
At this time we are not recommending colder plugs nor cooler thermostats as we've found the detonation threshold to be the same between 185 - 210 degree F engine temps.
One of the most significant changes made with our tune and the Xcalibrator flasher are several enhancements to transmission operations. We have made a noticeable improvement in how the Marauder's transmission feels when shifting at light load and part throttle loads, plus substantially firmer shifts at wide open throttle. A key calibration area we've focused on is torque converter lock-up. We've basically made converter lock-up inactive until speeds above 63 mph have been reached in 4th gear. This makes a Marauder feel much peppier at intermediate speeds in city driving. This change also eliminates the unnecessary, frequent “up-and-down-hunting” shift at intermediate speeds. To sum it up, these transmission changes make the car respond much more quickly and feel like it's in the correct gear at all times during city driving speeds.
Full throttle shift points are raised slightly and made more consistent at 6100 rpm - which from our testing appears to be optimal for the Marauder engine. The vehicle top-speed limiter is also removed.
Finding the extra power and torque is one thing, but we are especially proud of how this flash-tune improves the driving experience through our transmission refinements. The driveability improvements we've made can't be shown through a dyno graph, they have to be experienced to be appreciated and understood.

The clutch has nothing to do with turning off the alternator - and it DOES shut off during WOT with the stock/OEM tune!!!

[RacerX]

Don't get a higher output alternator from Autozone. They are deeper and work on cv's, but, not mm's because the lower intake plenum is in the way. Like was said, DB electrical.

[bawazir]

Don't get a higher output alternator from Autozone. They are deeper and work on cv's, but, not mm's because the lower intake plenum is in the way. Like was said, DB electrical.

ya i think am going to take that route soon

[fastblackmerc]

+2 or is it +3 or +10 on the DB Electrical alternator. I have a 250amp and it works like a champ.

[Phrog_gunner]

The clutch has nothing to do with turning off the alternator - and it DOES shut off during WOT with the stock/OEM tune!!!

I was just going to question that statement. It figures to me for the computer to be able to turn the clutch on/off there would have to be an electrical connection going to the clutch (just like your A/C clutch).

Thanks for the clarification.

[2vmodular]

there's lots of intrest in alternator swaps. these are common failure parts when you get some mileage on your car, and most people feel comfortable swapping out their own alternator.

certain crownvic & grandmarquis alternators will actually fit/work in a marauder. the one you want for your 2003-2004 marauder was used in the CIVILIAN 2003-2004 crownvic/grandmarquis/towncar. this alternator is identical to a marauder alternator except it doesn't have the clutched pulley on it.

and that mustang cobra alternator swap is a no-go because of the regulator. you need a regulator that allows the voltage setpoint to be varied by the pcm and also outputs field response data. mustangs didn't get such an alternator voltage regulator until the 2005 model year. all the ones before that were i-line controlled.

it's a shame that the dohc intake manifold limits the alternator depth so much. the 6g alternator has better cooling than the 4g alternators that these cars came from the factory with. heat kills alternator components, and being better able to dissipate heat to the ambient air vastly improves alternator life under high load conditions.


You guys keep trying to re-invent the wheel. The alternator experiments have been done, here is the most reliable and economical solution:

CV and GM alternators won't fit. '96-'01 Cobra alternators physically fit but electrically won't work.

[2vmodular]

the autozone police package alternator is a 6G unit instead of a 4G unit. even if it did physically fit in your car, you'd need to splice on a different voltage regulator connector and custom fabricate something for the upper mounting bracket.


Don't get a higher output alternator from Autozone. They are deeper and work on cv's, but, not mm's because the lower intake plenum is in the way. Like was said, DB electrical.

6G "police package" alternator

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/modelnumbers/8315/8315-2.jpg

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/modelnumbers/8315/8315-4.jpg

4G marauder alternator

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/modelnumbers/8314/8314-6.jpg

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/modelnumbers/8314/8314-5.jpg

[2vmodular]

here's an article that i found about why alternators converted to produce more power fail under high load conditions:

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/highampfail.pdf

it's too bad that the 2004+ mitsubishi police interceptor alternator won't physically fit in a marauder. this is a monster alternator designed from the ground up to be a high output unit. it's got huge airflow to get rid of heat. and it's got 8 rectifier diodes in it rather than the 4 like you'd find in a 4G alternator.

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/modelnumbers/11026/11026-4.jpg

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/modelnumbers/11026/11026-3.jpg

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/modelnumbers/11026/11026-10.jpg

[2vmodular]

when you shut off the alternator rotor field current, the alternator just freewheels and acts like an idler pulley. no electrical connection for the clutch is required.


I was just going to question that statement. It figures to me for the computer to be able to turn the clutch on/off there would have to be an electrical connection going to the clutch (just like your A/C clutch).

[2vmodular]

misbuilt alternators with the wrong voltage regulator in them are much more common than they should be.

there are 3 different regulator control systems used in recent ford vehicles.
-one is an i-line with a fixed voltage setpoint and no field response data output
-another is an i-line with a fixed voltage setpoint and field respone data output
-the other is a pcm controlled regulator with a variable voltage setpoint and field respone data output.

get the wrong regulator and the alternator might not charge. even in the best case scenario where the alternator does charge, you'd have the charge light illuminated.

if the above data seems confusing to you. it's equally confusing to some alternator rebuilders, and that's why you sometimes get an alternator with the wrong voltage regulator in it.


Please post when you replace the Alt and if you get the battery light.

[FordNut]

certain crownvic & grandmarquis alternators will actually fit/work in a marauder. the one you want for your 2003-2004 marauder was used in the CIVILIAN 2003-2004 crownvic/grandmarquis/towncar. this alternator is identical to a marauder alternator except it doesn't have the clutched pulley on it.

The alternator in my Mom's '03 CV is totally different from the one in the Marauder.

[Phrog_gunner]

when you shut off the alternator rotor field current, the alternator just freewheels and acts like an idler pulley. no electrical connection for the clutch is required.

And, therefore, the CLUTCH is not HOW the alternator is turned off, which is the part I was questioning, not that the alternator does get turned off. Thanks for the clarification. :beer:

[massacre]

Interesting read-

For my swap I will have to swap out my MM voltage regulator for an '01 CV regulator.
I'll keep the clutch, though...lol.

[2vmodular]

if your mom has a 2003 crownvic p71, it should have the 6G alternator in it rather than the 4G one like the 2003-2004 marauder and 2003-2004 civilian p73/p74 crownvics have.

one neat thing about the 03+ crownvics is that you can install any one of 3 different alternator models in the car. all the 2003+ ford 4G, ford 6G, and mitsubishi police crownvic alternators use the same electrical signals. and all will physically bolt up to a crownvic engine block. this swap does often involve splicing wires and acquiring a different upper mounting bracket though.


The alternator in my Mom's '03 CV is totally different from the one in the Marauder.

[2vmodular]

if you're running the stock engine in your 1993 grand marquis, you might consider the 2004+ police interceptor alternator instead. this is a beefier unit that outputs more power. i figured out how to control this unit without a 2003+ crownvic powertrain control module present too.

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/mitsubishi/upgrade/


Interesting read-

For my swap I will have to swap out my MM voltage regulator for an '01 CV regulator.
I'll keep the clutch, though...lol.


'93 MGM, mods

the alternator

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/mitsubishi/upgrade/PICT2936-vi.jpg

my control box. spin the knob in one direction and the charging system voltage setpoint is close to 15V. spin the knob the other direction and the voltage setpoint drops below 12V.

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/mitsubishi/upgrade/PICT3326-vi.jpg

http://www.p71interceptor.com/alternator/mitsubishi/upgrade/pwmgraph-vi.jpg

[2vmodular]

the voltage regulators in the later ford 4G alternators are easy to swap out. remove the back cover, remove 3 torx screws and you've got the regulator in your hands.

[warren]

I got a complete 200amp kit designed for the MM from Reinhart a few years back and it works like a charm. The instructions were super and the result safer.

Warren

[massacre]

if you're running the stock engine in your 1993 grand marquis, you might consider the 2004+ police interceptor alternator instead. this is a beefier unit that outputs more power.


^^^ Thanks so much for this info, that is pretty hardcore.
Pretty sure the 2004+ alt will not physically fit my Mach 1 intake though. Even the MarkVIII alt is too fat and there is some interference there.
I would definitely run it, it just won't physically fit.
I'm not running any stereo/amps/lights/laptop or anything so I don't have huge power needs for this car.
Sorry I didn't put that in my sig but this is a 4V swap car.

[fastblackmerc]

^^^ Thanks so much for this info, that is pretty hardcore.
Pretty sure the 2004+ alt will not physically fit my Mach 1 intake though. Even the MarkVIII alt is too fat and there is some interference there.
I would definitely run it, it just won't physically fit.
I'm not running any stereo/amps/lights/laptop or anything so I don't have huge power needs for this car.
Sorry I didn't put that in my sig but this is a 4V swap car.

Check DB Electrical.

http://www.dbelectrical.com/casearch.aspx?query=marauder&x=0&y=0

I have one of their 250amp units.

New alternators.... no core charge.

[massacre]

^^^ Thanks for that link, looks like quality stuff!
I already purchased a MM alternator, it is being disassembled at a local electrical shop(Dorchester electric motor) so that I can polish the case. Then it will be reassembled with the correct(non-PCM-controlled) voltage regulator.

Thanks again!