TOO MUCH Intake ?!?

[VictorCrown]

Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Intake?

Let me explain guys. The new crate engine came without a Mass Air Flow Sensor.

The exhaust is 3" Stainless Works Longtubes and the Cold Air Intake is K&N.

What I need to figure is whether to buy a stock Marauder 80mm MAF or move up in size to a Lightning 90mm MAF.

I've been advised to keep the tubing after the X-pipe at no larger than 2 1/2" to avoid loss of air velocity caused by too large pipes. Is there any similar logic to keeping the MAF size down, or is bigger always better?

The car will NOT be turbocharged. It is a Naturally Aspirated freely breathing engine using regular pump gas. Thanks for your advice, because this is the last part before it hits the road.

Vic

[FordNut]

Naturally aspirated the 80 should be adequate but it won't hurt anything to go with a 90.

[BlueFusion]

If you go too wide on the exhaust or intake, you will kill low end torque. The speed at which the air moves into the cylinders will determine how much torque it can make. If it is moving very slow because there is a large volume in the intake or exhaust, the torque the motor can produce will go down.

If you're not going to be maxing it out, it's not worth it. You will only need the Lightning MAF if you are maxing out the 80mm OEM Marauder MAF which you will see if you data log it.

[FordNut]

When I was running NA with headers and numerous other mods, I upgraded from the stock MAF to a 90 and it made absolutely no difference in the power. No gain, no loss.

[VictorCrown]

Hi Guys and thanks for the important advice. I'd rather not by the MAF twice, and Lonnie sells the Lightning one at a good price. If it won't hurt, I'll save a couple bucks and get the 90mm but not if it slows airflow and hurts the low end... :depress:

Also, if later I wanted to play around with power adders (did I say the turbo word?) it would make one less thing to change. Without a blower to move the airflow into the cylinders, I'm glad FordNut has tested the difference and that there's no loss of torque in the lower end off the line launches. :cool:

Thx.

Vic

[ctrlraven]

Get the 90 now if there is any chance of a power adder for down the road. The wiring for the 90 mm is different also slightly.

[RR|Suki]

If you think about it, both of those MAFs and the pipe size you would run to use them are smaller than the throttle body.

[FordNut]

Get the 90 now if there is any chance of a power adder for down the road. The wiring for the 90 mm is different also slightly.
Absolutely, if there is a possibility of adding a blower in the future go ahead and upgrade. Doesn't the Lightning one have a separate IAT sensor? The SCT may be a better option for a NA setup.


If you think about it, both of those MAFs and the pipe size you would run to use them are smaller than the throttle body.
Not sure, but doesn't the K&N CAI also neck down to match the size of the 80 mm?

[ctrlraven]

Absolutely, if there is a possibility of adding a blower in the future go ahead and upgrade. Doesn't the Lightning one have a separate IAT sensor? The SCT may be a better option for a NA setup.

Correct on the IAT sensor.

[RR|Suki]

Not sure, but doesn't the K&N CAI also neck down to match the size of the 80 mm?

Yeah it would have to I think, the throttle body opening is well over 80mm. That's what I mean, I dunno how you would have "too much intake" seeing as the throttle body is bigger than all the MAF pipe sizes.

[FordNut]

Yeah it would have to I think, the throttle body opening is well over 80mm. That's what I mean, I dunno how you would have "too much intake" seeing as the throttle body is bigger than all the MAF pipe sizes.

I agree with the too much statements, but size looks like

twin 57 mm tb (OEM) area = 5105 mm^2
80 mm MAF area = 5028 mm^2
90 mm MAF area = 6364 mm^2

and twin 62 mm tb area = 6040 mm^2
so even if the tb were upgraded to a twin 62 mm the 90 mm MAF should be adequate

[VictorCrown]

Thanks Guys, so I guess as long as the K&N cold air intake is smaller diameter tubing the intake airspeed will have accelerated enough despite the larger bodied MAF. So I can go without issues up to the 90mm size in a naturally aspirated engine, allowing for future progress upstream from the MAF without ever needing to change it.

What would I need to wire or splice to make the 90mm MAF work? It will be using the harness of an 1993 Crown Vic so that means I'll be needing to fiddle with it no matter which MAF I use... .)

Vic

[DOOM]

Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Intake?
or is bigger always better?

THATS WHAT SHE SAID! :banana2:

[99SVT]

Honestly, the intake manifold is more of a restriction and generator of low end torque than the inlet. Go as big as you like.

If the vic has a separate IAT sensor you're gold, otherwise you'll need to use the outer 2 wires that go into the MAF for an IAT sensor that you'll have to procure. Fairly simple, had to do it for the Trilogy install with the relocated IAT sensor.

[ImpalaSlayer]

well i made a custom intake that didnt bottle neck like the k&n when i went to the 90mm. if you end up needing a push in IAT sensor, i have a brand new one if you want it.

[VictorCrown]

THATS WHAT SHE SAID! :banana2:

Hi Hemi Hunter,

Looks like you've got enough intake to spell doom to chargers and challengers!



Honestly, the intake manifold is more of a restriction and generator of low end torque than the inlet. Go as big as you like.

If the vic has a separate IAT sensor you're gold, otherwise you'll need to use the outer 2 wires that go into the MAF for an IAT sensor that you'll have to procure. Fairly simple, had to do it for the Trilogy install with the relocated IAT sensor.


Hi 99SVT,

Since the intake manifold ensures proper intake airspeed, then I guess nothing would affect intake airspeed unless it is UNDERSIZED components upstream in the airflow. So an oversized CAI or an oversized MAF won't create too slow a flow, whereas an undersized CAI or an undersized MAF might reduce the airflow by lowering the pressure due to lesser air volume within the space alloted? :beatnik:



well i made a custom intake that didnt bottle neck like the k&n when i went to the 90mm. if you end up needing a push in IAT sensor, i have a brand new one if you want it.


Hi ImpalaSlayer,

So if I want more low end torque I should stuff a beer can into the K&N ? :lol:

Seriously, did it bottle neck because you were using a blower or nitro or just because it doesn't do the job it's cracked up to do? I thought that it would be good to have more air velocity to ram charge the engine with natural pressure. That would take a slightly smaller intake tube. The MAF might however add turbulence if larger, unless maybe its larger inner diameter might actually prevent turbulence if the intake airflow is swift enough to bypasses the internal components on the inner edges of the MAF without causing a power robbing stir.

Actually, I may take you up on your offer of that push-in IAT sensor if there isn't already one from the old engine I'm pulling. I'll check tomorrow. The crate engine came with a fully built top end with both intake and exhaust manifolds but without MAF. Since pricing is similar for a stock Marauder or Mach1 MAF and the Lightning MAF it makes more sense to get the bigger one... as long as it will still fit under the hood. Is it much taller?

Vic

[ImpalaSlayer]

Hi ImpalaSlayer,

So if I want more low end torque I should stuff a beer can into the K&N ? :lol:

Seriously, did it bottle neck because you were using a blower or nitro or just because it doesn't do the job it's cracked up to do? I thought that it would be good to have more air velocity to ram charge the engine with natural pressure. That would take a slightly smaller intake tube. The MAF might however add turbulence if larger, unless maybe its larger inner diameter might actually prevent turbulence if the intake airflow is swift enough to bypasses the internal components on the inner edges of the MAF without causing a power robbing stir.

Actually, I may take you up on your offer of that push-in IAT sensor if there isn't already one from the old engine I'm pulling. I'll check tomorrow. The crate engine came with a fully built top end with both intake and exhaust manifolds but without MAF. Since pricing is similar for a stock Marauder or Mach1 MAF and the Lightning MAF it makes more sense to get the bigger one... as long as it will still fit under the hood. Is it much taller?

Vic

what i ment by bottle neck was the K&n chocked down by the maf to accomodate the 80mm, i made a new intake that had a 90mm opining

i thought i had a pic of it finished but appently i dont here it its b4 i finished it and painted it.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/blaster250cr/IMG_0836.jpg

[ntd]

Dave that picture is very disturbing, flesh colored and very phallus looking you said that's and intake tube right:P

[FordNut]

Since the intake manifold ensures proper intake airspeed, then I guess nothing would affect intake airspeed unless it is UNDERSIZED components upstream in the airflow. So an oversized CAI or an oversized MAF won't create too slow a flow, whereas an undersized CAI or an undersized MAF might reduce the airflow by lowering the pressure due to lesser air volume within the space alloted? :beatnik:


An extremely oversized MAF could cause tuning issues. It's sort of a tradeoff of resolution vs range. Go too big and it will be more difficult to get a smooth AFR trace on your dyno pulls. So I'd probably pass on going with a 100 or 110 mm MAF unless you're heavily modded and using a blower.

[BlueFusion]

Someone stated above that the intake manifold dictates the air velocity into the cylinders so everything before it shouldn't matter.

This is not correct. I have a 70mm TB on my GMQ over the stock 65mm. All things equal, with the 65mm TB, I have a faster take off with more low end torque vs the 70mm TB. But I stick with the 70mm TB for the volume of air it can flow in the higher RPMs.

And like mentioned before, going from one size to another and back to another size in the intake path causes turbulence AND a loss of velocity.

Since you're N/A now, just stick with an 80mm MAF. If you go blown later, get the 90mm MAF. If you have the money for a blower, you have the money to buy the 90mm MAF and sell the 80mm MAF used.

[VictorCrown]

Thanks BlueFusion for your analysis. Low end torque is really what I'm mostly after since I'm not going on many straight roads. This is a hill road racer and not a strip cruiser or dragster. So torque is the name of the game, the sooner the better.

I'll stick with the 80mm MAF because at this date it won't help performance to go bigger and also because I have a brand new K&N cold air intakes built for the Marauder's MAF and I'm not about to go to that kind of shop to get one of ImpalaSlayer's bent whatayacallits. ;)

Now, where to locate a cheap 80mm MAF... if any here have a clue, give a holler! :cool:

Vic

[CBT]

Thanks BlueFusion for your analysis. Low end torque is really what I'm mostly after since I'm not going on many straight roads. This is a hill road racer and not a strip cruiser or dragster. So torque is the name of the game, the sooner the better.

I'll stick with the 80mm MAF because at this date it won't help performance to go bigger and also because I have a brand new K&N cold air intakes built for the Marauder's MAF and I'm not about to go to that kind of shop to get one of ImpalaSlayer's bent whatayacallits. ;)

Now, where to locate a cheap 80mm MAF... if any here have a clue, give a holler! :cool:

Vic

Sounds like fun, man! You already do this? And if so, any pics?

[VictorCrown]

Sounds like fun, man! You already do this? And if so, any pics?

Hi CBT,

Any pics will be posted in an old thread over at CV.net:

Mutant Marauder Update (http://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1867699&Board=21&fpart=all&gonew=1#UNREAD)

The project got delayed over the winter but is now back on track. Borla stingers on the way and almost ready to drive to the mandrel bender once that MAF is bolted on.

Vic

[ImpalaSlayer]

An extremely oversized MAF could cause tuning issues. It's sort of a tradeoff of resolution vs range. Go too big and it will be more difficult to get a smooth AFR trace on your dyno pulls. So I'd probably pass on going with a 100 or 110 mm MAF unless you're heavily modded and using a blower.

this is correct, the more of the MAF you use the better

[VictorCrown]

Thanks a lot guys. This advice was considerable and the explanations detailed.

From what I conclude:

With a blow engine a bigger MAF is better because you won't lose velocity due to the larger diameter thanks to the turbine.

With a natural engine once you have enough intake airflow you want to avoid an oversized MAF because the turbulence of varying size intake components may reduce airflow speed and rob low end torque.

So I'm going to seek out a new or used 80mm stock Marauder or Mach1 MAF.

Thanks for a privete PM with any suggestions as I had priced them last year and since lost my list of links...

Vic