We all can learn something...

[rayjay]

from the tragic loss of, by all accounts, a fine young man. A young man I will never get to meet. I too have felt that pain. My brother died going on 32 years ago at age 19 when he hit a pole at the estimated speed of 90mph. RIP Marauderboi, but I can not help thinking that this is all the more tragic because it could have been avoided.

Is all the talk of "kills" on this forum encouraging our youngest owners? Like it or not they are far less experienced drivers than most of us original owners. I think it is time we re evaluate what is tolerated here. Any talk of street racing on my previous car's forums got you booted.

I sincerely hope the loss of our fellow Member was not invane and a few here get a clue to keep it on the track. This type of tragedy is forever and takes many years for the family to get over, if they ever do...

[FordNut]

Is all the talk of "kills" on this forum encouraging our youngest owners? Like it or not they are far less experienced drivers than most of us original owners. I think it is time we re evaluate what is tolerated here. Any talk of street racing on my previous car's forums got you booted. ...

I agree, back when Logan ran the forums street racing was a taboo subject.

[fastblackmerc]

I vote for no "kill" or street racing threads.

[Bluerauder]

I too had similar thoughts today Ray. I didn't sleep well at all last night after hearing about the accident and Alex's passing. The images and narrative of the wreck kept haunting me. The pain and grief that his parents, friends and family is feeling must be tremendous. My thoughts and prayers are with them.

Many here on the MM.Net are also grieving. Some have met Alex in person and attended events with him. Others only knew hiim here on the Forums. By all accounts, he was a really great guy. He may be one of the youngest and certainly most enthusiastic of the Marauderers.

Marauderboi may be gone; but he is certainly not forgotten.

Hopefully as we get more and more younger members here on the site, maybe this terrible accident will remain in the back of their minds and help them to make the proper judgement in the future. Bad things happen quickly at high speeds. Inexperience can be a contributing factor and even the more "mature" among us can be affected.

If anything good can come of Alex's passing -- let it be the last time that we have to read such terrible news on the loss of one of our friends and members here on the MM.Net.

R.I.P. Alex.

[breeze]

im young will be 22 in october but i rarely street race. i do watch it tho. im too scared to have my car taking, locked up or even my numbers called. i tell everyone race me at the track. when my blower goes on yea, ima smoke the tires up alil bit but it will have too much raw power for street race. its not a controlled enviornment, have to worry bout people, cars, the weather and cops.

[Leadfoot281]

I vote for no "kill" or street racing threads.

+100.

Just a couple months ago a neighboring town (population 1,000) lost three teenagers in an accident. There were 4 girls were in a pickup truck and were trying not to be passed by another kid from school and lost control of the truck and flipped it repeatedly. The youngest passenger, age 12, was the only one to live.

[Rocknthehawk]

These thread will get locked/delete when Mary finds it. Or maybe it won't, because there's veteran members in here sharing the same thought. She felt the need to edit my post that said something to the effect of hoping some other members would learn from this. while some of this site knew him closely are still dealing with the loss, I could only hope it would give them an urge to reach out. Teach young drivers about the dangers of racing on the street. Promote a youth night at a local track.

if alex hadn't crashed, he could have posted here, and been praised for his "kill."


I own a 350z, the same platform as the g35 he was racing. On the Z forum I frequent, any talk of street racing, this vs. that, etc will get you banned. Unless it's on the track, the threads get shut down/locked.


I pray his passenger recovers.

[MM03MOK]

These thread will get locked/delete when Mary finds it. Or maybe it won't, because there's veteran members in here sharing the same thought. She felt the need to edit my post that said something to the effect of hoping some other members would learn from this. while some of this site knew him closely are still dealing with the loss, I could only hope it would give them an urge to reach out. Teach young drivers about the dangers of racing on the street. Promote a youth night at a local track.

if alex hadn't crashed, he could have posted here, and been praised for his "kill."

I own a 350z, the same platform as the g35 he was racing. On the Z forum I frequent, any talk of street racing, this vs. that, etc will get you banned. Unless it's on the track, the threads get shut down/locked.


I pray his passenger recovers.
Difference here, Aaron, is that the initial thread about Alex was a memorial for him. It was not the place to discuss lessons to be learned. Have some sensitivity here, please. I'm sure Alex's friends as well as Dave and family are reading the forum. When you own and manage your own forum, you can do whatever you want.

[Rocknthehawk]

I wasn't opening the discussion Mary. I was posting the thought that I hope others will learn. I believe this thread is opening the discussion. So they won't read this thread? Insensitive would be a member making a joke of his death.

I could have stated the same response as here instead. I hope his friends/family reach out to other young drivers, and teach them the dangers of street racing. You manage this how you want, but I'm not sure why you continue to hold a grudge with me. This isn't our first go around.

You manage this forum how you like, but i'll put the same thing here I said in response to your PM.


Thank you for letting me know. I can understand, many here knew him personally. It wasn't meant to be insensitive, it's a chance to show some that there's a time and place for racing, and it's not on the street. You have an entire sub forum filled with threads glorifying how Alex passed, would you also edit that? It's always upsetting to lose a friend and member of this community, especially someone so young. I was in tears reading how some here knew him personally. No disrespect to Alex or his family in stating the fact he died street racing.

[BAD MERC]

I think that encouraging our members to prove their meddle on the street is asking for more tragedy. Racing in a closed course is acceptable when all the uncontrolled variables are removed. We lost our boy, our "boi" :cry: and we will never get him back. Every time you turn your key remember to buckle up and be responsible. Do it for Alex. Do it for those that will miss you.

[MM03MOK]

There's always a retort from you, isn't there. I repeat...

Difference here, Aaron, is that the initial thread about Alex was a memorial for him. It was not the place to discuss lessons to be learned.

The Storyboard forum, as a whole, is going to be addressed.

[Paul T. Casey]

Unfortunately, things will still go down on the streets. We all may behave for a while, and even if we don't post it here, street racing will still happen. It's a culture in a lot of places. Personally, I usually avoid it (I'd lose my clearence, and there-by my job, house, car, boat, etc. if I got arrested for it). Thing is I'm 52 years old. I know how I was at age 20, 30, 35. I just pray that all our folks here, young and old, pick their spots carefully.

[Rocknthehawk]

edit: I see now the links have been removed. Thank you.

[MM03MOK]

It's not insensitive to hope that others will learn. Let me know how what I said was opening a discussion? Let go of whatever grudge you've made up Mary. Why not edit the links to articles about the crash, if it's disrespectful to state what the article says?


edit: I see now the links have been removed. Thank you.
What I said above ^^^.

Grudge??

Yes, the links have been removed as requested by the family.

[yjmud]

this a tragic event
not posting racing threads will not stop street racing it has been going on since the begining of time it will not stop it either
hopefully we all can stop and think for a second and make the right decision and take it to the track

[Paul T. Casey]

forum I frequent, any talk of street racing, this vs. that, etc will get you banned. Unless it's on the track, the threads get shut down/locked.


I pray his passenger recovers.

Most car sites don't allow the street racing stories for letigious reasons rather than because it's unsafe. By allowing the "skreet" stories, the possibility exists that a sharp lawyer could convince a not so smart jury that the particular website actually condones the act. Many sites are either making big money, or have the owners heavily invested. They don't want to take the chance. Maybe some sort of disclaimer would work, but I actually enjoy some of the kill stories.

[jus4kix03MM]

im sorry to hear about him. may he rest in paradise.

[TAKEDOWN]

We all can learn something... How precious life is! I'm not the Devil, but I'm not an Angel either, but I definitely need to think twice when I hit the GO Pedal.

[Vortex]

Agree the site should be a "no street racing zone".

[Hotrauder]

While it is true that banning "hey, look at me" stories of street racing will not end the practice or the carnage it will end the appearance that street racing is alive and well here and even applauded by this community. It is time we all grow up and recognize that there is no proportionality between the fun of street racing and the price so many have had to pay when it all went wrong. Dennis

[W4LTD]

+1

Well stated, Dennis! :beer:

[justbob]

This saddens me indeed, especially because I have three kids of my own, so this touches home for me big time. His parents will never "move on". But with that said I can't help but think more for the parents of the poor kid that was merely riding shot gun in a bad situation. I surely hope this doesn't turn into two deaths and not only hurts Alex's family spiritually but financially as well. This is just sickening to say the least. If you wanna play race car driver, then kick your occupants out atleast!

I cringe at the thought every time I here "and then we had to split lanes to get around a minivan" stories. Grow up people, there is other lives other than your own out there on the streets, and there is a HUGE difference from a tap of the gas here and there and racing upwards of the speed limit and beyond!

Call me old, maybe I am, but I have a family that I love and they are on the streets that you call race tracks.

Sorry if some of you feel different or if I have insulted the family, that was not my intension here. This was a bad accident that could have been avoided. Most of us on here have probably come close ourselves to something like this, and some of us have had horrific crashes at the track and that hasn't stopped stories like this.

Please stay safe out there, this shouldn't be considered a lesson, but instead, a tragedy. You allready should know right from wrong.

[DEFYANT]

I will echo the others here who agree "kill story - street racing" bragging should not be acceptable. The entire enthusiast community that promotes and glorifies the practice has a measure of responsibility, how ever so small.

Make it the "Marauderboi Alex" rule.

Especially considering how so many Marauders are now in the hands of 2nd and 3rd owners who are young drivers.

[dakslim]

Teenagers have an "invincibility" complex. I remember having a couple of close calls as a teen. As many have stated, "street racing-kill stories" should not be hyped up on any car forum.

[GAMike]

There are points I appreciate on both sides of this discussion. I will say that when we try to drive any 4,000lb. vehicle like it lightweight sports car, there is bound to be trouble. I don't care if a guy has all the aftermarket goodies on the car or not. There is only so much you can do to Marauders to make them drive really "small"..

There are only a few that have made the significant investment it takes to make their Marauder dance like that (I do not count myself among them btw)........ They will be the first to tell you, they are close, but can't quite replicate that type of driving dynamic. They also have enough experience to know when enough is enough.

The fact is, equipment can make you better up to a point. After that, judgement, experience, and luck take over in most of these situations..... If a driver is missing any one of the 3? Sad to say, but bad things usually happen. (To me: Skill = the combo of judgement, experience, and luck.... Oh yea... training too if you have invested in some advanced schooling).

I certainly don't want to be the catalyst for any litigation towards mm.net, so I will go along with whatever the site decides. Lets just remind folks that driving these cars with "enthusiasm" is not like driving other cars in a similar fashion. I think 1st gen Marauder owners know this...... 2nd(like me) and 3rd gen. would do well to humble themselves to this insight.....

Sorry for the lengthly post. Just wanted to be as clear as I could be.

[W4LTD]

Defensive driving or even advanced driving courses would benefit us all, especially those under, say, 25. In law enforcement, you're trained through EVOC (Emergency Vehicle Operations Course) training but this still is not enough for real-world situations and advanced courses are recommended by most departments nationwide.

Just a thought, younger drivers may want to check this out: www.carcontrol.com

[Egon Spengler]

Defensive driving or even advanced driving courses would benefit us all, especially those under, say, 25. In law enforcement, you're trained through EVOC (Emergency Vehicle Operations Course) training but this still is not enough for real-world situations and advanced courses are recommended by most departments nationwide.

Just a thought, younger drivers may want to check this out: www.carcontrol.com (http://www.carcontrol.com)
We did EVOC courses for driving the big rigs for the fire department. Definitely learned some things. Very helpful course and I think EVERYONE could benefit from one. Maybe more on the police EVOC side than the firedepartment side using cars instead of rigs

[jstevens]

I believe that if you want to race, take it to the track.
However street racing will be around longer than any of us. This of course doesn't discount this tragedy only brings this topic back around.

I feel for his parents. I could never ever imagine losing one of my own especially to street racing.

[CBT]

We did EVOC courses for driving the big rigs for the fire department. Definitely learned some things. Very helpful course and I think EVERYONE could benefit from one. Maybe more on the police EVOC side than the firedepartment side using cars instead of rigs

I got my certs, only thing I kept getting yelled at for was not "shuffle steering".

[jimlam56]

Defensive driving or even advanced driving courses would benefit us all, especially those under, say, 25. In law enforcement, you're trained through EVOC (Emergency Vehicle Operations Course) training but this still is not enough for real-world situations and advanced courses are recommended by most departments nationwide.

Just a thought, younger drivers may want to check this out: www.carcontrol.com

This would be a good way in my opinion to honor Alex's memory, by sponsoring young people to complete this course.
I grew up in the 60's and 70's taking chance after chance, only fate allowed me make it this far.
Let's think about how we can help the younger folks here not repeat the same mistakes.

[rayjay]

EVOC is all well and good, but you have to know when to quit a situation. That comes with experience. Things go down real fast at triple digits.

[Kennyrauder]

We all did it when we were young. When you are 19 it's about being invincible. I ran hard & too fast 39 years ago in my 69 Charger. I was just lucky I was never killed . Don't blame this poor boy, he thought he would never die. God Bless this young man & his grieving family.

[Spectragod]

We all did it when we were young. When you are 19 it's about being invincible. I ran hard & too fast 39 years ago in my 69 Charger. I was just lucky I was never killed . Don't blame this poor boy, he thought he would never die. God Bless this young man & his grieving family.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I sure thought I would live forever, almost 30 ears since I was 18, it's amazing what life teaches you.

Although I never met Alex or his family, they are both in my prayers.

[vkirkend]

Unfortunately, things will still go down on the streets. We all may behave for a while, and even if we don't post it here, street racing will still happen. It's a culture in a lot of places. Personally, I usually avoid it (I'd lose my clearence, and there-by my job, house, car, boat, etc. if I got arrested for it). Thing is I'm 52 years old. I know how I was at age 20, 30, 35. I just pray that all our folks here, young and old, pick their spots carefully.

I agree, unfortunately this forum is not going to stop drag racing for the young or old. I am just wise enough now to do it at the track. I believe the best avenue is to preach the virtues of safety and not ban discussion. Everyone of the kill threads has at least one response that talks about doing it safely. That I believe is a better deterent than banning discussion.

[1stMerc]

While i agree with the taking of the EVOC, it could also make things worse. The person that needs to take it never will. As long as the thought "it will never happen to me" or "i can handle it" or "i know what i'm doing" mentallity exists, street racing will never end.

There will always be that unknown factor lurking about.

[FordNut]

The current litigious society could result in the forum owners being sued for contributory negligence by "encouraging" street racing. Even if they won a suit and were not found to be responsible, the attorney's fees could cripple them. End result would likely be the end of mm.net. I'd rather see street racing discussions banned.

[datruweelman]

This is a serious issue that needs to be confronted. I am one of the younger guys. I however was blessed as to not to have been in any accidents. Although I did go through the phase of invincibility. This same thing happened on my colleges Car Club Forum and we banned all talk of street racing and moderators would go through and delete posts about street racing. I do not think that a ban on all "Kill" talk will stop it.. however it will save the forum from vampire lawyers trying to suck money out of every orifice they can find. I am in full support of the Ban, and my condolences go out to all those grieving. Sometimes its hard to accept that our cars are not indestructible, as powerful as we feel in them. I think any kind of defensive driving course or other extra training would be beneficial.

[RF Overlord]

Everyone of the kill threads has at least one response that talks about doing it safely. That I believe is a better deterent than banning discussion.The problem is that street racing cannot be "done safely". Oh, you might get away with it, maybe for years, but you are taking huge risks with the safety of others and that is unacceptable.

[Blackened300a]

Teenagers have an "invincibility" complex. I remember having a couple of close calls as a teen. As many have stated, "street racing-kill stories" should not be hyped up on any car forum.

Agreed, I see some of the areas that I used to street race and I think to myself, WTF was I doing? I consider myself lucky for being able to look back and realize how stupid I was. I really feel for the family having to lose a child. My heart goes out to them.


The problem is that street racing cannot be "done safely". Oh, you might get away with it, maybe for years, but you are taking huge risks with the safety of others and that is unacceptable.

Agreed.

[massacre]

There's just too many cars on the road today, plus the average driver today can't drive out of a wet paper bag with a hole in it. What with cell phones and texting, plus cars just plain go faster now.

Years ago street racing wasn't as dangerous as it is now.
I've seen a lot of things in my time, but man, when I saw what was left of the car it really got to me.
It is definitely a crying shame what happened, my condolences for the family/friends and for the community in general.

[Hadamustang1]

People are going to do what there going to do.. its been going on since the invention of the wheel..

[Bigdogjim]

Some of the so called "driving" I see others doing while trying to get the big bus down the road has me asking myself " Why the h3ll did I ever return to this madness" Returning from Greenville, NC today I saw some really poor driving. Thank heavens most truckers do not drive like that!

[1stMerc]

Agreed, I see some of the areas that I used to street race and I think to myself, WTF was I doing? I consider myself lucky for being able to look back and realize how stupid I was. I really feel for the family having to lose a child. My heart goes out to them.

Agreed.

Ditto, and to think, at seperate times in my life, i did it in a car and on motorcycle.

[burtreynolds]

I do play a little here and there on the street, and I think that if we as adults (Majority of us are over 21) post about it in glorification(I am guilty as well) it will reflect onto the younger owners who may cohabitate in this forum and allow them the idea that "its okay to race on the street."

The facts are racing on the street and agressive/performance oriented driving on public use roads is ILLEGAL for a reason. Passive and careful driving may not be as fun, but will 99% of the time get you to your destination safely. There is no such thing as doing the above actions safely. You can do them "SAFER" than others, but never are you doing them safely for yourself, your passengers, the other driver or the general public just trying to get the kids home.

Its fun to read about all the exploits when everyone is safe and nothing happened, but I think this incident has been a wake up call for all of us. I agree with the ban on stories related to race track usage of public roads. I think all of us could learn something from this incident whether you are 15 or 75, and if it saves your life...then the senseless passing of what is obviously a loved and respected young man is not in vain.

[Blackened300a]

Some of the so called "driving" I see others doing while trying to get the big bus down the road has me asking myself " Why the h3ll did I ever return to this madness" Returning from Greenville, NC today I saw some really poor driving. Thank heavens most truckers do not drive like that!

9 times out of 10, if you see a tractor trailer accident, it was caused by some tool in a car

[Dennis Reinhart]

Difference here, Aaron, is that the initial thread about Alex was a memorial for him. It was not the place to discuss lessons to be learned. Have some sensitivity here, please. I'm sure Alex's friends as well as Dave and family are reading the forum. When you own and manage your own forum, you can do whatever you want.


Well said and I totaly agree with Mary.