Before and after

[Dennis Reinhart]

Before and after, here is a 03 A that was done years ago with a modified water to air kit, by a shop in NC, this was far from state of the art, the car has only 18K on the clock but the set up was really was not functional. The cooling hoses had kinks the Maf was connected by a hose drilled through the battery box, as you can see it has a miniature battery, the owner called me and ask me to retune the car, I said sure he brought it down and I took one look at it and said, as I always say, I am not here to sell you some thing you do not need, in your case you would be far better converting this car to air to air.

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1283388071-IMG_0095.jpg

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1283388152-IMG_0096.jpg

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1283388180-IMG_0097.jpg

He said I trust you make it right, so here are the pictures before, and you can see exactly what I am talking about, tomorrow I will get the car on the dyno I removed the old water to air and the stock Marauder Maf out of the fender all wiring installed a new IC all new pipes and air cleaner, a 90 MMLM and we installed a 3.3 pulley, that is when we found this car has a E Trim this is a real low boost S/C so the car will probably not make plus 400 but it will pick up and run a whole lot better. It has my old short headers and X pipe stock trans and my old twin high flow X pipe with Magnaflows, I will post the sheet and dyno.

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1283388311-after.jpg

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1283388353-after1.jpg

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1283388410-after2.jpg

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1283388465-after3.jpg

[musclemerc]

Very nice Dennis.

[ImpalaSlayer]

what an abortion

[wx4caster]

Dennis ,thanks for posting the before and after pics. What are you doing to the red Adrenalin?

[Dennis Reinhart]

Very nice Dennis.

Thank you this means a lot to me, we excited about next week.

[Dennis Reinhart]

what an abortion

No Dave, its a rebirth.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Dennis ,thanks for posting the before and after pics. What are you doing to the red Adrenalin?


The owner is picking the car up Saturday, and I know he is going to replace the battery box, and put a full battery in it.

[ImpalaSlayer]

No Dave, its a rebirth.

i meant before, it was a compliment

[MarauderTJA]

Nice and clean looking Dennis:up:

[Dennis Reinhart]

i meant before, it was a compliment


Thank you David, I hope every one has a great weekend and a safe drive next week

[ntd]

Wow the original install looked bad to put it nicely, the air to air looks a lot better. Question it seems you prefer the Air to Air over the Water to Air kits now any particular reason?

[jflave]

Looks great Dennis, nice job :)

[sailsmen]

I have had both air to air and water to air. Air to air is fool proof and you never run out of air. There is a finite amount of water in a water to air.

Air to air is only a problem for burn out contest.;)

[Egon Spengler]

Abortion is the word I would have used as well! Looks much better now!

[Skinner]

Hollo everyone,

This would be my ride. I'm the 2nd owner - bought it from a good friend. He had the original mod performed back in '03.

When I bought the car last May I got to really looking at what was going on under the hood. Long story short, I joined MM.net and quickly learned that Reinhart Automotive was where I wanted it to go.

Originally, I thought it would be worth it to keep the water-to-air cooler and just convert it to a blow-thru. Once Dennis pointed out all the other mistakes I didn't know to look for I saw the light and decided to do it right.

I love this car. I loved it knowing the S/C install needed work. Now I can't wait 'till Saturday!!

Next year I'll upgrade to a S-trim with some Kooks long tubes... If I have the $$$.

Later.

[3CzSCrewHead*]

NiCe D why the small battary though?

[GAMike]

Good to see another SC'd Marauder running around the ATL :banana2: If you are back in town Sunday, come out to Caffene & Octane over at "The Avenues of East Cobb" 8am-11:30am alot of the Southern Marauders Car Club will be there. Hope you can make it!:burnout:Good job Dennis!




Hollo everyone,

This would be my ride. I'm the 2nd owner - bought it from a good friend. He had the original mod performed back in '03.

When I bought the car last May I got to really looking at what was going on under the hood. Long story short, I joined MM.net and quickly learned that Reinhart Automotive was where I wanted it to go.

Originally, I thought it would be worth it to keep the water-to-air cooler and just convert it to a blow-thru. Once Dennis pointed out all the other mistakes I didn't know to look for I saw the light and decided to do it right.

I love this car. I loved it knowing the S/C install needed work. Now I can't wait 'till Saturday!!

Next year I'll upgrade to a S-trim with some Kooks long tubes... If I have the $$$.

Later.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Thank you Mike, the car has a Vortech E Trim and even with a 3.3 it made about 6 PSI and 350 RWHP but the car runs perfect shifts dead on at 6K and Novi 1200 or 1500 will be great up gade later on, here is the dyno and and video

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1283462319-Joe.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_-XOp4VC50

[Dennis Reinhart]

Wow the original install looked bad to put it nicely, the air to air looks a lot better. Question it seems you prefer the Air to Air over the Water to Air kits now any particular reason?


Air to Air is fast and easy to install and just as efficient as water to air, and 1000.00 cheaper.

[Skinner]

Thanks for the invite.

I'm not coming back until Mon (provided work dosen't speak up and say different).

However, I'll take a rain check.


Good to see another SC'd Marauder running around the ATL :banana2: If you are back in town Sunday, come out to Caffene & Octane over at "The Avenues of East Cobb" 8am-11:30am alot of the Southern Marauders Car Club will be there. Hope you can make it!:burnout:Good job Dennis!

[CWright]

Ditto on what Mike said. DR did mine last year at this time. I know you'll enjoy the car. Once you get the $$$$$ for the headers I would say jump all over. DR put on the kooks LT's for me with high flow cats and X pipe. She perked up alot more. Dennis does an awesome job on these cars with his kits. ENJOY!!:beer:

[scoutrjp]

You went to the the right place for your MM. Dennis dose great work.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I missed him by five minutes this morning he is on his way back home, we will be in Inverness Florida tonight, and having our pool party Monday here.

[Skinner]

I am very satisfied with the work Dennis performed on the car.

The car runs flawlessly. It shifts like It should and makes the most of the available power. The air-to-air cooler looks great and gives me the piece of mind knowing it is a very simple yet effective system.

It runs like a totally different car. Like Dennis said: a rebirth. Perhaps I'll start calling her the Phoenix...

If any more modifications happen to this car they will happen at Reinhart's shop.

I am happy - I feel I got what I paid for. You don't get that sensation too often these days AND I get to feel that way every time I dip the throttle :).

Anyone interested in the water-to-air set up that came off?

[Dennis Reinhart]

Did you happen to check your gas millage, I am glad you made it safe and home.

[FordNut]

Much nicer setup, good job Dennis. Should provide lots of trouble-free smiles!

A few of the leftover pieces could possibly be sold to one of the future Eaton conversion guys. The water pump and the heat exchanger that goes in front of the radiator should work on the Eaton setup.

[musclemerc]

Send me some pics.


I am very satisfied with the work Dennis performed on the car.

The car runs flawlessly. It shifts like It should and makes the most of the available power. The air-to-air cooler looks great and gives me the piece of mind knowing it is a very simple yet effective system.

It runs like a totally different car. Like Dennis said: a rebirth. Perhaps I'll start calling her the Phoenix...

If any more modifications happen to this car they will happen at Reinhart's shop.

I am happy - I feel I got what I paid for. You don't get that sensation too often these days AND I get to feel that way every time I dip the throttle :).

Anyone interested in the water-to-air set up that came off?

[Dennis Reinhart]

Send me some pics.



I believe they are all posted, here and his install cost was less than 900.00, I think your kit looks just as good.

[Marauderman]

Anyone interested in the water-to-air set up that came off?

Glad you like your new se -up and your right--Dennis is very helpful and can fix a lot . Guess I did not read why you wanted to change --

I am very satisfied with my # 7 Water to air unit from Dennis.........one of the originals as he mentions.....and after his tune in '06, I have gotten a tenth better each time I got to the 1/4--yep--that's 4 tenths..and I am now at 12.4-=so until I feel I cannot adjust to this tune cause its really me ..learning it.., I will stick with it..but I must admit....mine is a built engine...I just had him tune it to my style until I go for its max--700 Hp--which it is capable, but I need to do a few small things first--just not in a hurry.........

The water to air is unique but can be managed.

[LANDY]

Glad you like your new se -up and your right--Dennis is very helpful and can fix a lot . Guess I did not read why you wanted to change --

I am very satisfied with my # 7 Water to air unit from Dennis.........one of the originals as he mentions.....and after his tune in '06, I have gotten a tenth better each time I got to the 1/4--yep--that's 4 tenths..and I am now at 12.4-=so until I feel I cannot adjust to this tune cause its really me ..learning it.., I will stick with it..but I must admit....mine is a built engine...I just had him tune it to my style until I go for its max--700 Hp--which it is capable, but I need to do a few small things first--just not in a hurry.........

The water to air is unique but can be managed. i didnt know you had a built engine. i met you at SSHS9 i think, there were so many faces and nice S/C Marauders. im sure you wll have an even better 1320 time this year.

[Skinner]

Send me some pics.

It will take a little time as the parts are currently stored at a friend's and he's 4 - 5 hours away.

What I will do is get him to snap some photos and I'll forward them to you as soon as I can (best friend - kinda slow to motivate to do things like drag parts out and take pictures;))

[Skinner]

Did you happen to check your gas millage, I am glad you made it safe and home.

I haven't done the math yet - It looks like I'm getting 20 - 21 with most of that on the highway.

Problem is I tend to take back roads and when you factor in passing farmer Ted on his tractor every 10 miles the numbers get skewed. (no disrespect to the farmers - I like to eat, too)

The next chance I get to do some pure highway crusing I'll post the mileage.

[Skinner]

Glad you like your new se -up and your right--Dennis is very helpful and can fix a lot . Guess I did not read why you wanted to change --

I am very satisfied with my # 7 Water to air unit from Dennis.........one of the originals as he mentions.....and after his tune in '06, I have gotten a tenth better each time I got to the 1/4--yep--that's 4 tenths..and I am now at 12.4-=so until I feel I cannot adjust to this tune cause its really me ..learning it.., I will stick with it..but I must admit....mine is a built engine...I just had him tune it to my style until I go for its max--700 Hp--which it is capable, but I need to do a few small things first--just not in a hurry.........

The water to air is unique but can be managed.

What really started it all is the coolant tank flange rusted. Then I started to look at the install closely and saw kinked hoses, etc.

From an engineering/performance point of view water-to-air has good heat transfer properties. Ultimately, I never liked the idea of having to make use of an external water pump. The air-to-air has no moving parts that can go out and works well.

It was not so much about performance. It had more to do with simplicity, piece of mind, and clean looks. Then again, I wouldn't have made the conversion if the air-to-air didn't work.

[BODYMAN]

Once again very,very nice work Dennis! I also have had both A2A & air2Water I find same as others A2A very simple always found myself with A2water wandering if for some reason pump wasnt working, besides W/ Dennis A2A the large cooler looks awesome tucked in the frt end Have had so many comments on it. Iam still amazed evrytime I drive my car OD at 74,xxx and still making 500 to the tires I must say that is a testement to the Man who designed this kit Heck when Iam done with this kit someone else will still enjoy it. Eventually I will build new motor and will move on to some other type of power adder. Cant say it enough though another great job Dennis

[FormulaMarauder]

Get yourself a T Trim. Mine is pulling 459rwhp/401ftlbs. Runing 12.3 on a hot, humid day.

[BODYMAN]

Get yourself a T Trim. Mine is pulling 459rwhp/401ftlbs. Runing 12.3 on a hot, humid day.

No more Centri blowers for me Thanks! I want HP/TQ as close to even as possible. I must say though for only 9lbs youre#'s look great. MY S-Trim has been very good to me, but there comes a time when I just want change. Of course going to track Tue eve and if I keep constantly in High 11's That might change my mind ;) Iam really hoping it stays cool at night like it has been.

[sailsmen]

Several of the Eaton guys complain about poor performance when it is hot. I don't know how efficient the Twin Screws are.
The primary advantage of A to A is you never run out of air.

[BODYMAN]

Several of the Eaton guys complain about poor performance when it is hot. I don't know how efficient the Twin Screws are.
The primary advantage of A to A is you never run out of air.


I have heard that from a few friends W/Cobras.But like any Blower the harder you push it the hotter,less effiecient it becomes. I like all Blowers, every single one has plus or minus.I have a couple friends that get so concerned over the heat,overly I always tell them man you need to get Methanol. (chemically Intercooled). The one thing I have always wandered w/ any Roots type it is making power from touch of pedal, so over a long period of time I would think it would be more wear on Motor,related parts??? :confused:

As for a Twin Screw or say a 3.4 Whipple,compared to say a stock Cobra Eaton there is a noticeable diff, & not as much Boost drop at top end.

[sailsmen]

I think the difference in the real world is miniscule. The 60' of the Cents are awesome.
Timeslipe data from a Vortec and Eaton. Same gears, tires, exhaust, TC, Eaton 12.5psi and Vortec10psi. Can you pick which is which?

1.704 5.089 7.942 85.53 10.438 12.554 106.67
1.741 5.096 7.924 86.4 10.399 12.501 107.33
1.702 5.046 7.886 85.7 10.383 12.511 105.89
1.691 5.025 7.852 86.34 10.328 12.426 107.56
1.745 5.096 7.883 87.13 10.329 12.391 109.4
1.748 5.114 7.907 86.9 10.358 12.427 109.03
1.72 5.047 7.822 88.15 10.272 12.333 109.52
1.716 5.019 7.79 87.37 10.237 12.3 109.38
1.744 5.098 7.894 86.79 10.355 12.431 108.69
1.69 5.221 8.051 86.58 10.514 12.921 108.65

I cannot tell which is my Cent and which is the Eaton. What this proves it that from a dead stop by the 60' there is no measurable difference. Maybe there is a difference for the first 20'?

I have owned a Cent and an Eaton.

[dohc324ci]

No more Centri blowers for me Thanks! I want HP/TQ as close to even as possible. I must say though for only 9lbs youre#'s look great. MY S-Trim has been very good to me, but there comes a time when I just want change. Of course going to track Tue eve and if I keep constantly in High 11's That might change my mind ;) Iam really hoping it stays cool at night like it has been.

Well maybe April or May 2011..lol dibs.

[LANDY]

No more Centri blowers for me Thanks! I want HP/TQ as close to even as possible. I must say though for only 9lbs youre#'s look great. MY S-Trim has been very good to me, but there comes a time when I just want change. Of course going to track Tue eve and if I keep constantly in High 11's That might change my mind ;) Iam really hoping it stays cool at night like it has been. are you using drag radials? if you are 11's shouldnt be a problem.

[sailsmen]

An excellent article that explains HP vs TQ by Bruce Augenstein
http://www.4x4abc.com/jeep101/torque.html
"At The Dragstrip
OK. Back to carland, and some examples of how horsepower makes a major difference in how fast a car can accelerate, in spite of what torque on your backside tells you :-).

A very good example would be to compare the current LT1 Corvette with the last of the L98 Vettes, built in 1991. Figures as follows:

Engine Peak HP @ RPM Peak Torque @ RPM

------ ------------- -----------------

L98 250 @ 4000 340 @ 3200

LT1 300 @ 5000 340 @ 3600


The cars are geared identically, and car weights are within a few pounds, so it's a good comparison.

First, each car will push you back in the seat (the fun factor) with the same authority - at least at or near peak torque in each gear. One will tend to *feel* about as fast as the other to the driver, but the LT1 will actually be significantly faster than the L98, even though it won't pull any harder. If we mess about with the formula, we can begin to discover exactly *why* the LT1 is faster. Here's another slice at that formula:

Horsepower * 5252

Torque = -----------------

RPM


If we plug some numbers in, we can see that the L98 is making 328 foot pounds of torque at its power peak (250 hp @ 4000), and we can infer that it cannot be making any more than 263 pound feet of torque at 5000 rpm, or it would be making more than 250 hp at that engine speed, and would be so rated. In actuality, the L98 is probably making no more than around 210 pound feet or so at 5000 rpm, and anybody who owns one would shift it at around 46-4700 rpm, because more torque is available at the drive wheels in the next gear at that point.

On the other hand, the LT1 is fairly happy making 315 pound feet at 5000 rpm, and is happy right up to its mid 5s redline.

So, in a drag race, the cars would launch more or less together. The L98 might have a slight advantage due to its peak torque occuring a little earlier in the rev range, but that is debatable, since the LT1 has a wider, flatter curve (again pretty much by definition, looking at the figures). From somewhere in the mid range and up, however, the LT1 would begin to pull away. Where the L98 has to shift to second (and throw away torque multiplication for speed), the LT1 still has around another 1000 rpm to go in first, and thus begins to widen its lead, more and more as the speeds climb. As long as the revs are high, the LT1, by definition, has an advantage.

Another example would be the LT1 against the ZR-1. Same deal, only in reverse. The ZR-1 actually pulls a little harder than the LT1, although its torque advantage is softened somewhat by its extra weight. The real advantage, however, is that the ZR-1 has another 1500 rpm in hand at the point where the LT1 has to shift.

There are numerous examples of this phenomenon. The Integra GS-R, for instance, is faster than the garden variety Integra, not because it pulls particularly harder (it doesn't), but because it pulls *longer*. It doesn't feel particularly faster, but it is.

A final example of this requires your imagination. Figure that we can tweak an LT1 engine so that it still makes peak torque of 340 foot pounds at 3600 rpm, but, instead of the curve dropping off to 315 pound feet at 5000, we extend the torque curve so much that it doesn't fall off to 315 pound feet until 15000 rpm. OK, so we'd need to have virtually all the moving parts made out of unobtanium :-), and some sort of turbocharging on demand that would make enough high-rpm boost to keep the curve from falling, but hey, bear with me.

If you raced a stock LT1 with this car, they would launch together, but, somewhere around the 60 foot point, the stocker would begin to fade, and would have to grab second gear shortly thereafter. Not long after that, you'd see in your mirror that the stocker has grabbed third, and not too long after that, it would get fourth, but you'd wouldn't be able to see that due to the distance between you as you crossed the line, *still in first gear*, and pulling like crazy.

I've got a computer simulation that models an LT1 Vette in a quarter mile pass, and it predicts a 13.38 second ET, at 104.5 mph. That's pretty close (actually a tiny bit conservative) to what a stock LT1 can do at 100% air density at a high traction drag strip, being powershifted. However, our modified car, while belting the driver in the back no harder than the stocker (at peak torque) does an 11.96, at 135.1 mph, all in first gear, of course. It doesn't pull any harder, but it sure as hell pulls longer :-). It's also making *900* hp, at 15,000 rpm.

Of course, folks who are knowledgeable about drag racing are now openly snickering, because they've read the preceeding paragraph, and it occurs to them that any self respecting car that can get to 135 mph in a quarter mile will just naturally be doing this in less than ten seconds. Of course that's true, but I remind these same folks that any self-respecting engine that propels a Vette into the nines is also making a whole bunch more than 340 foot pounds of torque.

That does bring up another point, though. Essentially, a more "real" Corvette running 135 mph in a quarter mile (maybe a mega big block) might be making 700-800 foot pounds of torque, and thus it would pull a whole bunch harder than my paper tiger would. It would need slicks and other modifications in order to turn that torque into forward motion, but it would also get from here to way over there a bunch quicker.

On the other hand, as long as we're making quarter mile passes with fantasy engines, if we put a 10.35:1 final-drive gear (3.45 is stock) in our fantasy LT1, with slicks and other chassis mods, we'd be in the nines just as easily as the big block would, and thus save face :-). The mechanical advantage of such a nonsensical rear gear would allow our combination to pull just as hard as the big block, plus we'd get to do all that gear banging and such that real racers do, and finish in fourth gear, as God intends. :-)

The only modification to the preceeding paragraph would be the polar moments of inertia (flywheel effect) argument brought about by such a stiff rear gear, and that argument is outside of the scope of this already massive document. Another time, maybe, if you can stand it :-).

At The Bonneville Salt Flats
Looking at top speed, horsepower wins again, in the sense that making more torque at high rpm means you can use a stiffer gear for any given car speed, and thus have more effective torque *at the drive wheels*.

Finally, operating at the power peak means you are doing the absolute best you can at any given car speed, measuring torque at the drive wheels. I know I said that acceleration follows the torque curve in any given gear, but if you factor in gearing vs car speed, the power peak is *it*. An example, yet again, of the LT1 Vette will illustrate this. If you take it up to its torque peak (3600 rpm) in a gear, it will generate some level of torque (340 foot pounds times whatever overall gearing) at the drive wheels, which is the best it will do in that gear (meaning, that's where it is pulling hardest in that gear)."

[BODYMAN]

I wont sit and debate Drag racing. Yes the Vortech is a very good power maker & also a performer in the 1/4,just dont take the 3400 stall out!!! Obviously I dont have a problem with them I have owned 2 MM that had V. Let me just say & this is just my opinion I enjoy driving my car, say just tearin up the town on a friday night. Not loading every thing up (slicks,gas can,floor jack) spend a hour driving to the track getting preped and at the end of the night I got only 3-4 passes. Its all opinion & in mine a efficently operating up to date roots style is far superior over all in Real World every day driving. Rather you agree or not you cant deny it is making power from touch of a pedal.& after driving another memebers MM w/ported Trilogy right about 500/505 from STL to INDY & very often a buddys 04 Cobra (modded) My personal opinion has changed.Not to be funny have you driven a high#'s Say Cobra or another MM w/ a Eaton style? I will never site and get into a flame war with anyone over a S/C all opinions.

[BODYMAN]

I must say very nice write up. Good examples. One thing you pointed out HP wins over TQ yes but again to me just feeling when cruising around it is the TQ factor That gets it for me,

[dohc324ci]

Install a big bore stroker for some real torq. That blower and the BBS would be an nice combo. Waiting for the wife to forget what ive been spending before that happens for me...

[sailsmen]

In the real world a race will come down to the driver as evident by how close the times are on my post above. Yes the initial .5 second response of a PD S/C over a Cent is a "kick". I am more intersted in the other 11 seconds!

In the real world on my street tune I cannot floor it below 30 mph, just spins the tires.

Vortec vs Eaton Real World Data!
One MM was Vortec and one MM was Eaton. Both had same gears and tires. Vortec 10psi and Eaton 12.5psi. Vortec 3,500 PI. Vortec had 55,000 miles and Eaton 15,000.

I line up next to a beautiful red MM. This is the first MM I have ever lined up against. I get in the zone.

My r/t is .091 to his .144, ahead by .053, yahoo! Then I open up, my 60’ is 1.867 to his 2.151, ahead by .284. I feel the S/C winding up, my 330’ is 5.385 to his 5.681, ahead by .296. I know he is got to be there but I don’t know where. Then the 1/8 is 8.285 to his 8.590 ahead by .305.

I know that red beauty is charging on me, my 1,000’ is 10.832 to his 11.130, he closed to .298! Fortunately the ¼ comes up and my ET is 12.985 @104.72 to his 13.290 @104.31.

Wow, I crossed first by .3580!

I keep saying real world because what you hear as myths and what you see on a dyno graph do not always translate into reality.

I owned a modified Thunderbird S/C and I have driven 500+RWP PD S/C Mustangs. I have also driven a 1962 Impala SS 409 Dual 4 Barrels 4 Speed, a real torque monster.

[BODYMAN]

I will just say 2 things 1) TQ CONVERTOR WHITHOUT it the vortech is DONE! 2) As I metioned beforein REAL WORLD driving on a STREET NOT THE ONCE A month track visit
The blower that doesnt need help to get going is a far better one in my opinion. Why is it there is not one vehicle from factory w/ a centri blower on it? EASY it is NOT a PRACTICAL for everyday driving Application. So sorry to be getting you upset JUST MY .2 cents and that is a opinion and we all got one

[FordNut]

I've had both a Centrifugal (ProCharger) and twin screw on my car. I loved the power of the ProCharger, but the drive belt design was unreliable. That was the deciding factor in my decision to change, not power. IF I had to make a decision on two different blower types which used the same drive system (Kenne Bell Mach1 kit vs Vortech) I would go with the centrifugal.

[sailsmen]

You are not getting me upset. The answer to your question is packaging. I have over 130K on my MM of which 90K is with a Cent. Another member has over 240K of which over 120K is Cent.
The purpose of my post is to dispel some of the myths about a PD vs Cent. I posted real world data. FYI, A stock MM with only a Cent and a stock MM with only a Trilogy run identical 1/4 mile times. That is with the Cent having an OEM TC. For several years the lowest 60' time was held by a Cent. In my post above with the 1/4 data both the Cent and the PD had the same TC with the same 60'. In the race against the other PD MM it was in the 1st 1/8 of the 1/4 that I gained but I lost in the last 1/8 of the 1/4.

If you compare a Dyno Graph of a Cent to a PD you will think for the Cent I had better open the door and push with my foot to get it rolling and for the PD I better get a 30 speed trans and learn to shift really well. Neither is true because a Dyno graph is just that a display of a measurement.

In the past a lot of baloney has been posted on this board. One member went so far as to compare the Dyno Graph of a PD vs a Cent. Except the Cent had a belt slippage issue resutling in 380RWHP, oddly same RWHP as the PD. When the exact same Cent got it's belt fixed on the same Dyno it generated 472RWHP. Guess what this member did not go back and make the Dyno Graph comparison based on the 472RWHP.

"On a 90 degree day with the air on, An eaton/Trilogy is completely USELESS

This is the only saving grace to an Air/Air Kit...never more than 10-12 above ambient.

I was so pissed off yesterday when driving the car I damn near parked it and removed all the blower stuff."
"Agree 100%. My car SUCKS right now! It's great for helping out pushing the car under normal load with the air on, but forget all about performance! Weak sauce..."
"car only blows the tires off if i want it to, honestly, i think youd be better with a centri in FL anyway since my IATs are through the roof in the heat around here. i was barely able to catch a 3v gt."

I am sure the heat issues w/ a PD can be addressed by a bigger heat exchanger and a bigger reservoir, higher volume IC pump, etc.

[Skinner]

Quick update - I've been driving the car daily since I got it back to the Atl area (6 Sept) - bumper-to-bumper in 90+ degrees without a hitch.

Idles perfectly, stays cool, and goes when you step on it.

No regrets. I'm still very satisfied and would do it again.

[burtreynolds]

I always liked the ability to control the temperature of your cooling medium with Air to Water, but the complexity and with lower power levels, Air to Air is the way to go. Good Call Dennis!

Plus, nothing is sexier than a Front Mount sitting behind the teeth of a snarling Marauder!

[-Matt-]

Next year I'll upgrade to a S-trim with some Kooks long tubes....


Welcome to MM.net

Let me know when your ready to upgrade to the S-trim, i have a S-trim blower forsale since im moving up to a jt-trim