Could this be the cause of the trans pump failure?

[Blackened300a]

Since I got my car back from having the engine replaced I been chasing a slight vibration at idle.
Is it possible that they bolted the engine to the tranny with the convertor unseated and that was the vibration which led to the pump failure? If so I would assume they would have to cover the damages?

Also the pump whined but the trans shifted fine til about 3 blocks from my house. I plan to have it towed to the shop for the repair. Would I just need a pump replacement or is it possible that I destroyed the internals of the tranny as well?

Thanks for any info.

[Bluerauder]

Paul ... sorry to hear about your problems on the way home from MV8. Glad the tranny was able to get you home and hope that the repair doesn't sideline you for too long.

It was great to see you again. Your newest "squeeze" is a definite keeper. Seems like she enjoyed her trip and blended in very well at all the events. She even bested my time in the NASCAR simulator by ...... ALOT !!!!

[babbage]

How do you know it's a pump failure?

[Blackened300a]

How do you know it's a pump failure?

Sounds like a electrical whining noise and the fluid was way up on the dipstick which means it wasn't pulling any fluid in.

[fastblackmerc]

From my experience, if the converter is not seated in the pump you get tranny failure in a very short time / miles. Maybe the pump just failed.

[Blackened300a]

From my experience, if the converter is not seated in the pump you get tranny failure in a very short time / miles. Maybe the pump just failed.

I been complaining about this vibration for a while now and I'm thinking the convertor wasn't seated either. I have less then 2K miles since the install.

[CBT]

Paul, that sucks, hope it turns out to be a small repair bill. I guess one way to tell for sure if that was the cause of the noise was will be after it's fixed. Have you tried moving it since it has cooled down after getting home?

[Blackened300a]

Paul, that sucks, hope it turns out to be a small repair bill. I guess one way to tell for sure if that was the cause of the noise was will be after it's fixed. Have you tried moving it since it has cooled down after getting home?

If it is the converter not being seated, I'm not paying anything. I haven't touched the car yet. I have a tow truck coming around 11 to pick it up and the shop knows about what happened.
They are going to look at it right away. Ill have details later.

[fastblackmerc]

I been complaining about this vibration for a while now and I'm thinking the convertor wasn't seated either. I have less then 2K miles since the install.

Tranny install? If so is it under warranty?

[Blackened300a]

Tranny install? If so is it under warranty?

Engine install. However the trans was removed recently to replace the flexplate which I noticed wobbled a little. I have 12K warranty on the motor but if this caused the tranny to fail then it should also be taken care of.

[babbage]

If the converter isn't fully seated you pretty much damage the pump when you tighten the bolts on the bell housing. When you drop the trans, unbolt the nuts from the flywheel so the trans and TC come out together. Then you can see if it wasn't seated properly. It should be: spin, push, thunk (1/2 seat) spin more (thunk again - full seat) sinks in fully. Then you know it's seated -- it goes in twice.

[fastblackmerc]

Engine install. However the trans was removed recently to replace the flexplate which I noticed wobbled a little. I have 12K warranty on the motor but if this caused the tranny to fail then it should also be taken care of.

Good Luck!

Hope it works out for you.

[ctrlraven]

That sucks man, at least you got it home. Hope everything turns out alright!

[Blackened300a]

If the converter isn't fully seated you pretty much damage the pump when you tighten the bolts on the bell housing. When you drop the trans, unbolt the nuts from the flywheel so the trans and TC come out together. Then you can see if it wasn't seated properly. It should be: spin, push, thunk (1/2 seat) spin more (thunk again - full seat) sinks in fully. Then you know it's seated -- it goes in twice.

Would you still be able to bolt the tranny up? I would think that if its not seated it would stick out too far for the motor to seat.

[Krytin]

Sorry to hear about this Paul.

I don't have enough hands on experience w/these transmissions but I know the C-4 would not bolt flush to the motor unless the converter was all the way in - same w/the Chrysler 727.

Hope this gets fixed to your satisfaction!

[fastblackmerc]

Would you still be able to bolt the tranny up? I would think that if its not seated it would stick out too far for the motor to seat.

I think it would be possible.

[babbage]

Would you still be able to bolt the tranny up? I would think that if its not seated it would stick out too far for the motor to seat.

Yep you'd be able to get it really close about 1/4 to 1/8 of an inch, but it wouldn't be flush with the engine. Then you'd just use the bolts from the tranny bellhousing to close the gap and force the trans flush with the engine, crushing the pump in the process. Harder to notice the damage turn by turn.

[rayjay]

Jeesh Paul sorry to hear this. Atleast she got you home 1st. :(

[Mr. Man]

Sorry to hear you car is still giving you grey hair. I'll keep my eyes open for a SB for you;)

[massacre]

It should be: spin, push, thunk (1/2 seat) spin more (thunk again - full seat) sinks in fully. Then you know it's seated -- it goes in twice.


IDK but I was always told 3 "thunks" to fully seat the converter on these 4r transmissions......?

[CWright]

Man sorry to hear about your problems. Glad you guys were able to get home. I Hope it gets fixed Asap at little or no expense to you. Good luck!

[TFB]

Would you still be able to bolt the tranny up? I would think that if its not seated it would stick out too far for the motor to seat.
Absolutely

If the converter isn't fully seated you'll never be able to fully mate the transmission to the engine, if you try it will also be be seized and won't spin... Basically this is true with any automatic transmission, not just 4R70W... When correctly seated, there is approx a eighth of a inch of free play between the converter and flexplate, if the converter isn't fully seated it will be too far forward...

[Darrin]

Absolutely

If the converter isn't fully seated you'll never be able to fully mate the transmission to the engine, if you try it will also be be seized and won't spin... Basically this is true with any automatic transmission, not just 4R70W... When correctly seated, there is approx a eighth of a inch of free play between the converter and flexplate, if the converter isn't fully seated it will be too far forward...

I have gotten several transmissions from people who have tried to pull the trans up with the bolts and broken the housing. As a matter of fact, some pretty reputable shops have done it and I know that for a fact ;)

It's sometimes a real pain to get the converter fully seated on these things and the way to do it isn't by trying to force it with the transmission bolts. That won't work because the reason it isn't seating is because the 'flats' on the converter hub are not aligning with the 'flats' on the pump. Force it and something is going to break.

There was a very recent post about someone having difficulty seating a converter and having to stand it on it's tail and using a dead blow hammer. I can honestly tell you that I have had to do that as well. Sometimes the parts are so tight of a fit across the several pieces that need to mate that it seems like it isn't going to go. The reason for the dead blow isn't to beat the thing into submission, it's to use that blow to help align things so that they will go. Even though the fit might be REALLY tight, you can tell the difference between when it isn't aligned and when it is but doesn't want to go. That isn't something that I would ever suggest for anyone who isn't really, really familiar with what they are doing. Someone in that position might beat on it when it isn't in position and break the hell out of it.

I don't think there is any way that this is because of assembly in this instance. As was stated earlier, when it's put together wrong you won't be driving the car that way. If the clearances are so loose that it can be forced then the real damage is done when they try to start the car.

Darrin

[Blackened300a]

Hey Darrin, any idea why it failed? I had a rotating vibration since I got the car back with the new engine and I had a drivetrain vibration at 60-65mph the whole ride to NC. It started whining really loud but it was working. My fluid was fine, no bubbles or burnt smell. I also had the fluid flushed a week before I left and used Castrol Mercon V. It wasnt overfilled and it was shifting fine for over 1000 miles until the whining noise started.
Yesterday when I started the car the transmission was quiet and shifted fine until it warmed up. Then the noise started again. We can also feel a slight chatter when slowly accelerating.

[Darrin]

Man, there are so many things that it might be. You don't even know at this time if the root cause is in the transmission or not. It's hard enough sometimes figuring out what happened even when you have all the parts on hand. I wouldn't even want to speculate in all honesty.

Darrin

[Blackened300a]

Update.....

Today they pulled the tranny pan down and found no metal to speak of on the magnetic pickup or in the filter. Even the lollipop was still in the pan which makes me wonder what the hell the guy who installed the J-mod was doing.

They put a new filter in and topped off the fluid and I beat the hell out of the car for a 1/2 hour with zero noises or issues. We even cut the filter in half to see what would be in the sock and it was immaculate.

I now have no idea what caused the whining noise or what the issue was. I would think clogged filter or even air getting past the filter, but I had no air bubbles in the fluid, no smells and no burnt issues.

We are both stumped on this and have zero clue what happened. Yesterday during the test drive when it warmed up it started whining really loud, today they had it running for a half hour and even took it around the block a few times before I took it for a hard ride and no issues. :confused::confused:

Good news is that all it cost me was a filter and some fluid and not a pump, clutches or even a full rebuild. I plan to drive the car some more to make sure that it don't come back. He even put a dial indicator on the converter and its not wobbling or causing a vibration and made sure it was seated. If it wasn't seated I don't think I would have made it out to Charlotte and then made it 7/8 of the way home before hearing a noise.

[fastblackmerc]

Good news!

Lets hope it stays that way.

[Marauderman]

Good news!

Lets hope it stays that way.

+1-same here--Hopefully all is back to normal now---

[Darrin]

I wonder if the last guy in there didn't just leave the bobber. I wonder if he left the o-ring from the old filter in there too. That might have caused the problems you were having.

Darrin

[Blackened300a]

I wonder if the last guy in there didn't just leave the bobber. I wonder if he left the o-ring from the old filter in there too. That might have caused the problems you were having.

Darrin

I had the J-mod done about 4 years ago. Its odd the problem started now. I hope thats the last of my tranny issues.

[babbage]

Glad it's fixed. Amazing how good a pan drop is. Funny that the loli was still in there! That gets put in at the factory to keep crap out of the pan from entering via the dip stick hole.

I hope it stays perfect. I like to do a pan drop every year myself. (after of course grenading my last trans in my CV)

[RF Overlord]

Paul, I hate to ask this, but since you found the baby-rattle still in the pan, are you SURE the j-mod was even done? Mighty strange someone putting the lollipop back in.

On a second note, it's possible as Darrin suggested that the filter was loose and sucking air...it might have jostled when the motors were being swapped and that's why you never had the problem before.

Anyway, it's always nice when the simple (and cheap) fix works!

[Blackened300a]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/blackened300a/ea35c81d.jpg

All is still fine with the transmission.

[fastblackmerc]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d12/blackened300a/ea35c81d.jpg

All is still fine with the transmission.

Good News!

[rayjay]

Good news Paul. Need new Nittos yet :D