Any updates on moonroofs ?.

[the_pack_rat]

Last I read moonroof optioned cars were going to be built begining in December.

Did this indeed happen, or did FoMoCo just tease us again ?.

I'd really like to see one.

Wondering if they will look like a factory ordered option ...

Or they will look like the moonroofs anyone can take their car to have installed aftermarket ?.

--------------------------------

Now for a general moonroof question(not Marauder specific or based on anything read here).

For all intents & purposes in the discussion -

When I use the term "factory moonroof" ... I am referring to a car that was ordered/built from the get go with this option in mind, just the same as the exterior/interior colors. When the car comes off the truck at the dealer, the moonroof is already there & it is listed on the manufacturers window sticker under installed options, & the price is included on the cars total MSRP. No sending it out anywhere else at this point or adding any more money to the price. You're driving it home as quick as the dealer preps - cleans it & writes it up.

That will always be MY definition of a factory moonroof, whether it's technically 100% correct or not(more explained as you read on).

Anywho ...

Moonroofs seem to be a mysterious subject in general ... as I've often heard or read, there is no such thing as a factory installed moonroof, as ALL cars get sent out to have this done, even thru the factory.

Now there is indeed a MAJOR difference in a factory moonroof car that was ordered/built as such from the get go, opposed to one that was sent out to ASC or some other moonroof co. from the dealer.

In the past whenever I was buying/looking for a particular car that was available w/the option of a factory moonroof & I had CLEARLY stated right up front that the car MUST be a factory moonroof car ... the sales people would always pipe right up & SWEAR that ...

"They had a place that can do it, that can do it EXACTLY like the factory, you will NEVER know the difference".

At which point I always have to cockily ask the questions just to be a PITA & rain on their parade of BS ...

"Do they perform body & paint work on the car as part of the install, so NO perimeter molding is needed for the cutout, & the moonroof glass will sit flush like that of a factory ordered moonroof car ?.

"Do they change the entire headliner shell to the different molded one a factory moonroof ordered car would get ?. Or do they just cut an opening out of it, re-glue the surrounding fabric tucking it up & under, installing a perimeter molding ?" (some aftermarket co's don't even bother to do this).

"Do they use the same button/controls as the factory ordered moonroof car would have ?."

Of course' I already KNOW the answers to these questions ... and I'm sure most other people do as well.

NOT !.

One thing I really can't comment on is, the water drainage system in an aftermarket one ... as it's been a long time since I've seen one UP close & personal, while it was open.

I'd imagine that has to be no where near as "clean" as the factory setup either, being the drain tubes run down the pillars of the car.

So ... bottom line -

What is the EXACT chain of events, that a factory moonroof car is manufactured ?.

I can't see how the car can be sent out AFTER the fact ...

The finished product would look NO different than that of a dealer sent out one, or any one of us taking it somewhere after delivery to have it done.

I guess these cars would have to be built as "moonroof prepped" in some sort of way, with the hole in the roof cutout already, different headliner etc etc. Otherwise the car would only be coming back to the factory, & getting paint & bodywork. I can't even see them doing this if the car were sent out for the moonroof, body unfinished, then having to come back for paint & body work.

Anyone ever worked in the factory or know someone that has ?.

Inquiring minds want to know.

lol

Eric -

Past & present owner of several factory moonroof cars.

Some day owner - 04 DTR/charcoal w/a (hopefully) factory moonroof.

[woaface]

I saw one Marauder on e-bay with a factory moonroof on it...

[pacammer]

My Red 04 which has a delivery date of 22 Dec., it will have a factory installed moonroof. Ford has moved the independent contractor ( Crown), that does all the Town Car, CV, GM, & MM into the Ontario Plant,

[Agent M79]

Pacammer,

I hope you can post some detailed pics when it comes in. I'd love a factory moonroof but couldn't wait for it to show up on the order sheet. I wouldn't mind retro fitting one someday since the car looks ready for it.

[the_pack_rat]

Woaface,

How recent was this car listed ?. That was more than likely an aftermarket one.

Pacammer,

So the company that does these moonroofs, works right in the FoMoCo plant for the Panther cars now ?.

Hope that Dec 22 delivery date pans out.

That'll be one BAD ASS present to play with on the 25th.

Ditto on what Agent M79 said about those pics of the roof, if you have access to a camera.

If you could post them for Xmas that would be way too cool ...

I can live vicariously thru you for the day.

;)

Regards,

[martyo]

I have and ASC aftermarket installed 'roof. Looks factory to me. Honest (I am pretty picky). They did one nice installation job.

[MM03MOK]

Originally posted by martyo
Looks factory to me......They did one nice installation job. I agree.


Originally posted by martyo
Honest (I am pretty picky). No comment!

[the_pack_rat]

Picky ?.

I'm one of those customers most dealers pray will NOT come back to buy my next car !.

:lol:

------------


Picture a line of say ... 10 of the same cars at a dealer.

Aside from the obvious color difference in the roof, from a distance, it can be difficult to even tell a car has a factory moonroof, because they sit so flush.

If it came down to having NO moonroof or an aftermarket one ... I would still settle for the aftermarket one, as long as the workmanship was top notch.

There are some nice aftermarket roofs out there ... no doubt. Sometimes you even get more features aftermarket than you do from the factory.

Guess I'm just so used to the flush fit of the factory one.

In fact, just spent 2 months trying to find a replacement car for my wife ...

The DELAY ?.

All the cars that were the right miles - color etc etc ... didn't have a factory moonroof. Finally found the right one.

Very ODD down here in Florida ... moonroof cars are generally more readily availablbe up north. Seems many Floridians are too concerned with those fake roadster tops. When I bought my Town Car SAME thing happened ... took me QUITE awhile to find the right one w/a factory moonroof sans one of those "Florhideon"(Florida + hideous) roadster top packages. :puke:

I mean GEEZ ... who would actually want a moon/sun roof car in the SUNSHINE state ?.

:shake:

Anywhoo ...

No disrespect meant or intended towards the aftermarket sportin' folks ... a well done aftermarket is still better than NO moonroof, if you really have to have a moonroof.

:)

[TAF]

Originally posted by the_pack_rat
I'm one of those customers most dealers pray will NOT come back to buy my next car !.


Just ask Mac...Everytime I walk into Team Ford now...the Service/Body Shop Manager screams "GET THE :censor: OUTAHERE!!!"

Thanks again, Mac!

[woaface]

I'm pretty sure it was brand new, sold by a dealer. Maybe a month ago. There's a thread somewhere around here on it actually, if I can find it I'll post a link...

[woaface]

Better yet, here's the e-bay link...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2442625808&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS% 3A1

Hey, anyone know places that do aftermarket moonroofs?

[ADE 1000]

Originally posted by woaface
Better yet, here's the e-bay link...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2442625808&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS% 3A1

Hey, anyone know places that do aftermarket moonroofs?

The car in that auction does not have a factory moonroof, it is definetly aftermarket. No 2003 Marauder had a factory moonroof.

[martyo]

Originally posted by ADE 1900
The car in that auction does not have a factory moonroof, it is definetly aftermarket. No 2003 Marauder had a factory moonroof.

If you look carefully at the photos posted with that auction, some of them were taken before the 'roof install. look closely and you willl see what I mean....

[teamrope]

$24,9000 and the miles are low enough to still have the new car smell...Someone scored!

[woaface]

Yous win: )

[TAF]

Originally posted by martyo
If you look carefully at the photos posted with that auction, some of them were taken before the 'roof install. look closely and you willl see what I mean....

What are you smokin? If you're talking about the rear photos...I think you're wrong, counselor.

[woaface]

It seems that the rear photos would be angled enough so you could see the moonroof comin back...but then again, the light and all is just the same...I shall go ask the dealer...

[pacammer]

I will post pictures of the factory moonroof. I will take a few different shots so everyone can see the instalation.

[woaface]

Here's the reply from the vendor...


2003 did NOT have a moonroof, as an available option. But the moonroof in this car was installed aftermarket by one of our vendors, here in Omaha, Nebraska.

Thanks, let me know if you have any more questions.
Mitch Schneringer
Woodhouse Lincoln/Mercury/Mazda
Omaha, NE
ph. 402.592.1000

Nebraska & Iowa's largest volume Lincoln/Mercury dealer.
***Fastest growing Mazda dealer in the midwest***

[the_pack_rat]

pacammer,

Your moonroof car ever come in ?.

Inquiring minds want to know.

:D

[mad man]

I looked at 2 g/m wednesday with the factory moon roofs. Thay have a rubber gasket around the opening with the roof closed looks like sh-t .Same dealer has a used black mm with 2k on it for around 25k also a new red and silver. If anyone in chi-town is looking there in park ridge :coolman:

[jfclancy]

Well in regard to the E-Bay car did not see it mentioned it was a "factory" moonroof. But I agree with MartyO it does not appear to be installed yet in all pictures. IMHO I will never buy a car with a Moonroof as you loose 2" of headroom that I need.

Take care
Joe Clancy

[martyo]

Originally posted by jfclancy
I will never buy a car with a Moonroof as you loose 2" of headroom that I need.

Joe: I have the 'roof in my car (ASC aftermarket unit) and really can't say that I lost that much clearance. I am about 6'3" and have no problems fitting in the car with the 'roof installed.

Try it, you'll like it!!

[RoyLPita]

Just for kicks, I looked at the new MM ads in www.traderonline.com . I came across one Rizza LM in Naperville, IL that I thought the VIN was mis-typed. According to the Ford shop manual, it is an "incomplete vehicle", which means it is getting the moonroof option. Also, the price of the car is $36360 MSRP- $1025 of that is the price of the moonroof option. If there are any members who live near this dealer, speak to Brian Schwarz to see when the car is coming in. It would be neat to get pics of this.

[DL04]

I TOO FEEL THAT A FACTORY OPTION IS INSTALLED AT THE FACTORY-WHILE PLACING MY ORDER FOR A DTR MM ON 01-10-04 I WAS TOLD BY THE SALESMAN THAT ALL ' FACTORY ' MM MOONROOFS ARE INSTALLED AFTER THEY REACH THE DEALER....THATS NOT FACTORY! AFTER PUTTING IN MY ORDER {WITHOUT THE FACTORY ROOF} I WENT HOME AND CALLED L/M,AFTER 20MIN. I WAS TOLD THAT FACTORY MM MOONROOFS ARE INSTALLED AFTERMARKET-DAMN!- ANYONE ELSE CALL L/M ON THIS ONE? :down: :down:

[dwasson]

Calling the ASC unit "after market" is tricky since ASC makes, and installs many of the factory moonroofs. That is their business.

[pacammer]

The MM now comes with a FACTORY moonroof option. It is installed at the plant in canada by a company named Crown. This is the same moonroof that is on the Town Car CV and GM. Try this link. www.fleet.ford.com/products/fleet_showroom/2004fleetshowroom/2004-marauder.asp

[Donny Carlson]

Champion LM now has three GM's and a DTR Marauder with the moon roof sitting on their lot. The DTR MM is gorgeous!! Anyhow, the moon roof option, on a GM with the handling package, brings the MSRP up to $32,650. Getting close to MM territory. The DTR with the moon roof is MSRP a bit more than $36K.

Oh, and they have one of those special edition two tone GM's. I haven't decided if I like it or not, because it's a metallic paint on top with a non metallic on bottom. The weather is crap today, otherwise I'd snap some shots of it. I'll try later in the week.

[TAF]

The MM now comes with a FACTORY moonroof option. It is installed at the plant in canada by a company named Crown. This is the same moonroof that is on the Town Car CV and GM. Try this link. www.fleet.ford.com/products/fleet_showroom/2004fleetshowroom/2004-marauder.asp (http://www.fleet.ford.com/products/fleet_showroom/2004fleetshowroom/2004-marauder.asp)
Correct me if I'm wrong...but "It is installed at the plant in canada by a company named Crown." How is that different than an "aftermarket" unit? Am I wrong in thinking that a car coming down the assembly line with a "true factory sunroof" would have the opening cut/stamped out of the roof with maybe a different architecture for support surrounding the opening?

Maybe it's just me...but THAT would be what I'd call a "factory sunroof"...but please...enlighten me if I'm wrong.

Thanks!

[TripleTransAm]

Many times, specialized items are installed by a subcontracted company. This company usually sets up a mini-plant somewhere close to the main assembly line and does the job there, for the cars that get this particular option, then heads back to the plant. In this case, maybe Crown got the contract for sunroofs and had to set up shop nearby?

In my case (1998 WS6) the Ram-Air-specific appearance items (and high-performance airbox) were subcontracted to ASC. They set up a small shop (the photos I posted a few days ago) and the cars were received with garbage hoods on them. The hoods were removed, sometimes scrapped, sometimes sent back to be reused on the next shipment, and new plastic Ram Air hoods were installed, along with airbox, decals, badges, etc. then sent right back to the F-car plant. Does this make my Ram Air hood a Pontiac hood? Or an ASC hood? What makes it different from a hood made by Suncoast or other manufacturers?

I suppose it's the fact that it's a factory-spec or factory-approved item, even if it's installed in another location while under factory supervision (indirectly or directly). In the same vein, most parts in today's cars are subcontracted to begin with... does it matter who particularly installs them in order to be a factory original part?

[TAF]

In the same vein, most parts in today's cars are subcontracted to begin with... does it matter who particularly installs them in order to be a factory original part?
I guess that's my point. We've had folks here say they are "waiting to order with sunroof"...heck, in Ennis...Steve Babcock said he didn't have a Marauder yet...he was "waiting for the sunroof option".

So...with that being said...what could these folks be waiting on? Why not buy the car and have ASC (or another high-quality installer) put in the "aftermarket sunroof"...if according to your description (which I'm not disputing) it's the same thing?

[TripleTransAm]

So...with that being said...what could these folks be waiting on? Why not buy the car and have ASC (or another high-quality installer) put in the "aftermarket sunroof"...if according to your description (which I'm not disputing) it's the same thing?


If logic and other irrefutable laws of physics were to apply universally, essentially you would be 100% correct. However, said laws do not apply to Ford (and possibly other manufacturers, I don't want to know)... here's why:

If some 2-3 years down the line, it turns out the owner of the vehicle notices huge rust bubbles forming on his roof, in the general vicinity of his sunroof, it won't matter one whit that it turns out that the guy formerly in charge of installing the C-clips on the 4R70W was promoted to the body assembly line and spilled his salt drink all over the roof of the car before it was painted, much less had the sunroof installed. It's "aftermarket", so it's "your problem, not ours".

Whereas, if the factory "authorized" the install (ie. they got their cut of the pie on the $ale), then they're responsible, regardless of the real reason for the problem.

And that goes for more than just the install itself... it also applies to all the associated hardware like wiring modifications (for power and control of said sunroof) and the necessary plumbing to route water drippage along the insides of the A-pillars and out of the car, etc. Basically, the automaker has to protect itself against any problem caused by an outsider messing around in there.

And here's another twist of logic: never mind that the big name aftermarket installer might actually do a BETTER job than the low-bidder to whom the factory ultimately chose to farm the job out!


As for ASC and my experience with my WS6, I had nothing but positive results, so ASC ranks up there in my books, regardless of the fact it was a factory farm-out. From the moment I met their local management, I was treated like a prince and got nothing but total 100% attention to detail and quality. I even got to keep the hood that was initially shipped from the factory, since it turned out not to be a damaged one. (so if anyone wants to buy a never-used standard 1998 Trans Am hood, you know who to call :up:).

[TAF]

(so if anyone wants to buy a never-used standard 1998 Trans Am hood, you know who to call :up::).
Does it have a flamin', screamin' chicken on it??!!;)

[TripleTransAm]

Does it have a flamin', screamin' chicken on it??!!;)

No. I was greeted at the door to the ASC facilities by several of their assembly line employees aiming several shotguns at me. Once they had thoroughly inspected my GTA and found no evidence of any flaming poultry on the hood of that car, I was allowed inside their facilities. ;)

[Hack Goby]

Is this a factory code for moonroof?,Iwas here last week to see what they had and this was one of four.http://home.comcast.net/~hack_goby/DSCN0050.JPG

[the_pack_rat]

Did some snooping this weekend.

Couldn't find a Marauder, but did find a 2004 GM with the moonroof listed on the window sticker like the sticker attached by Hack above.

I know a few others have said it here but I just DIDN'T want to believe it until I saw it with my OWN eyes.

However, it is INDEED true ...

This moonroof has the same appearance as a typical AFTERMARKET one, on the outside. It has the black surround molding. IIRC, it was also regular glass tint in color ... rather than the mirror tint look, that is on the Town Car.

:mad2: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. :mad2:

WTF was FoMoCo thinking by choosing to do these cars this way, rather than the RIGHT way ?.(yea I know the term "right" is more opinion than fact).

There are pint sized PUDDLE JUMPER excuses for cars out there on the road that cost HALF of what these cars costs ... that have the FLUSH roofs, free of that perimeter molding.

Kudos to the "bean-counting" imbecile that made the decision to HALF-ASS an option people have been waiting on since DAY ONE.

FoMoCo must have saved a whopping $.0008 per MM - GM - CV, by going this route.

Things like this along with the poor advertising of this car ...

Makes you wonder if the resumes of the FoMoCo people responsible for stuff like this ...

List General Motors O-L-D-S-M-O-B-I-L-E division as their last employer.

SIGH ...

A great car & I still WANT one ... just dissapointed.

:rolleyes:

Eric

[GordonB]

OK people,
Here is the BEST deal available. Pls check my sig for model nbr. RUN, don't walk to your ASC dealer and get a genuine ASC sunroof installed. SC@@ the FOMOCO gang and their bean counters!
If I had waited for the factory moonroof, I would have NEVER bought a Blue MM.
Net, net, if you live anywhere near Rockville, MD, get your sunroof done by Adler and Mandel. That bunch does NICE work. It may not be FACTORY-installed the way we want, but it is is good as it gets right now.!!!

GordonB :beer: